I had to laugh when I saw this post from climate blog regular caerbannog666 re-tweeted by Dr. Michael Mann:
That iron lung comment piqued my interest, and I wondered who is this guy? A well known climate blog regular, he’s been bloviating all over the climate blogs for years. After finding him though about a minute’s worth of Googling public information, I wish I could unsee what I found. Meet Caesar Augustus Rossi Carvalho (Caerbannog)
Caesar Augustus Rossi Carvalho (Caerbannog) on Myspace
http://www.myspace.com/caerbannog666/photos
http://www.myspace.com/caerbannog666/photos/17286555
http://www.myspace.com/caerbannog666/photos/4486705#{%22ImageId%22%3A4486705}
UPDATE: In retrospect, it should be noted that people are free to dress up any way they want, whether it be in the dark style above, or as a superhero like Professor Scott Mandia (aka SuperMandia), leader of Michael Mann’s legal defense fund to keep those public emails from falling into the hands on an inquiring public.
I just find it humorous that Dr. Mann’s supporters are so, er, emotive.
UPDATE: 7/16/2012 Caebannog writes at his UT San Diego Forum:
Note: I will neither confirm nor deny that I am this individual.
childish, irrelevant. retweeting someone on twitter isn’t keeping “company” with them. stick to your strengths, challenging them on the science, not playing middle school popularity games
I’d make a comment about him looking like a typical Occupier, but it’s just too easy.
Oh god another Goth fallen for the Crow syndrome that’s the one where you think you are a mad avenging angle all swords and style but in reality you dance in a 2 foot square and get yer politics from family guy !
Definitely scary but glad you found it. It gives some insight into the minds of the warmers.
I vote with Jeff
Jeff,
“Friday Funny” Get it?
It’s not Delingpole at a party, is it?
Ahhh! It Burns!
Dad?
Funny.
That said, if my memory is correct, Jonas Salk used private donations, not coercively-obtained tax dollars, to fund his work. (A very generous donor being Richard Mellon Scaife’s mother.)
FOIA didn’t exist then, but had it done so, and had it somehow applied to private correspondence (perhaps in the firm if a tax you only have to pay if you don’t release your private correspondence – or would that be a penalty?), all it would show is a bunch of conservatives and others expressing concern for their fellow man, and generously trying to do things to help them.
Evidence for which the gentleman in the odd get-up can easily find now, just by opening his heavily made-up eyes.
Hey Caesar,
It is 12:06 am. Hallowe’en is over. Time for bed
The human condition is ripe for Friday Funnies. Being able to laugh at the human condition, even if it be us, is as necessary as challenging untenable science. Indeed, the endeavors depend on each other for strength to persevere.
I don’t care what he does in his spare time, he make a poor analogy. Sounds like Obama’s “truth” squad using canned propaganda.
Ok sure, it’s amusing and the guy looks like a bit of a weirdo (to put it mildly)…
but this just boils down to an ad hom, and we as skeptics should really be trying to rise above this sort of thing.
At least the 666 on the end of his handle is appropriate.
What is it?
But, I ask you, what does Alice Cooper have to say on the subject?
Mann’s response to the bizarre claim that his work is equivalent to Salk’s work that led to the eradication of polio (yeah, I know it’s not completely gone, but almost) tells us a whole lot about Michael Mann’s opinion of himself. . .
Looks like a classic ad hom to me. Attacking someone because of how they look.
REPLY: No its about costumes, a choice, much like views on climate. And are you saying it is OK for Mike Mann to point out when people put silly photos of themselves on the web for anyone to see, but not OK when I do it? I think your ire, much like your choice of climate views, is selective. – Anthony
Can you imagine if this wierdo and “Superman” Scott Mandia got together?
Rattus Norvegicus says:
July 13, 2012 at 7:56 am
“Looks like a classic ad hom to me. Attacking someone because of how they look.”
The guy has a choice: he doesn’t need to look like that.
Jeff says:
July 13, 2012 at 7:32 am
What don’t you understand about ‘Friday Funny’?
Well, I and some of my family and best friends have been known to cosplay for Anime conventions. Trust me, some of the looks go WAY beyond that rather tame exposition. Not that I would “dress” in such a manner normally. But when we’re in costume I will most assuredly take pictures of it. Not fond of his tattoos though, they don’t look particularly well done.
Wow, what a freak show these warmists are.
What’s with the Climate Crusader’s boots? “Knee deep in s***” comes to mind.
Every cause, both right and wrong, attracts some ridiculous people. Drawing attention to those people does not constitute an argument against their views. However, it does have some entertainment value. I don’t think anyone here believes Anthony is presenting the ridiculousness of Mr. Carvhalo’s writings or of his penchant for transgressive cosplay as constituting an argument against Prof. Mann’s views on climate or on transparency in publicly-funded research.
Rattus,
Caesar put out those images of himself and actively promotes his creepy gothe on-line persona, nobody is twisting his arm. I am well with norms to say, look…this is how this guy wants to be perceived…this is his self image.
He clearly suffers a reasoning deficit to think that his choice of clown make-up serves his stated political interests.
Weird that you zoomed in on and was critical about what you think was ad hominem, Sort of Ironic. What Caesar thinks about his politics is painted on his face for all to see. That decision by him to do that is consistent and germane to what comes out of his mouth.
Need to put this up so I’m not confused with the other Jeff. Retweeting someone’s comment, IS in effect keeping company with them, as you’re implicitly validating/endorsing their comment/ideas, and, by extension, them. As another commenter put, the 666 label
should have been an indication of what might be at hand. Perhaps this is one case
where the devil is in the details….
Having said that, it appears that Mann is really having to reach to get supporters
for his increasingly questionable methods, viewpoints, and criticisms of others.
Those who ‘adjust’ the past will have no hope for the future (i.e. it’s Mann who
is in denial (of MWP, etc.) not skeptics)…
Also from Mann’s Twitter feed:
“@PaulREhrlich Thanks Paul–means a lot coming from a hero & guiding light for all of us engaged in efforts to communicate environmental risk”
Paul “WE’RE ALL GONNA DIE!” Ehrlich. Yes, a fine role model for the aspiring scientist striving for objectivity.
Also, it looks as though his account is now locked.
Group pic of Mike Mann and the “Team“.
Do you think Jonas Salk would refuse to release his data?
Apropos of nothing at all (this thread is headed “Friday Funny”, after all) I happen to know that an friend of mine – an FRCO-grade organist – included the number of his favourite hymn as a discriminator in his email address.
In case that happened to be the rationale for Mr Carvalho’s “666” tag here, I notice that hymn 666 of “Complete Anglican Hymns Old and New” (the big, heavy, orange one – most hymn books don’t get much past 500) is “The Spirit lives to set us free”. Hmm: not very apt, I think. Better 665: “The spacious firmament on high”, as rather more appropriate – or dare one suggest 667: “The strife is o’er, the battle done”!
Just having fun …
OK. I’m convinced. Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming is real and we have to <shut the world down right NOW and give in to One World Governance NOW or WE'RE ALL GONNA' DIIIIEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!
Thanks, Caesar.
(is /sarc really necessary?)
PS to the Spelling Police: Did I get DIIIIEEEEEEEE spelled correctly or is there one more E?
Imagine Richard Feynman, showing up at the space shuttle congressional hearings dressed up in an alien costume. His sober words and famous O-Ring in Ice water demo would never have been noticed.
See…. The ice water demo was theatrics…and Feynman did it right. All eyes were on that O-Ring in the glass.
Caesar, has his theatrics all wrong. He looks incredible and unbalanced.
For a guy who believes transparency in science ( & science policy that would effect us all) is a bad thing, he certainly likes to reveal a lot of himself.
But, like Jeff says above, let’s try to keep this about the science. They’re wrapped in the vicious cycle of agenda driving emotion driving absurdity. We know it, I think they know it. No real need to waste space with it here
Anthony,
OK, I get it, Having a little fun. And you put up a lot of quality posts, which is what makes this such a strong blog. They can’t all be winners.
All that said, I wish you hadn’t posted this. As I’ve said before, seemingly to your annoyance, I hold you leading skeptics to a higher standard. There’s just so much in the way of legit criticism. Better to stick with that in my opinion.
his analogy about polio is pure illogic.
it’s a nonsense framing.
the correct analogy would be “it’s like a patient for whom a doctor has prescribed radical surgery asking to see the information upon which that decision was made and the doctor (mann) refusing to provide the info so you can get a second opinion.”
if a doctor said “my magic box (whose inputs and operational parameters i refuse to share) says you have cancer” would anyone take him seriously?
our friend can dress up as little bo peep for all i care, but that sort of illogic is a sign that he is either stupid or deliberately disingenuous.
Well, yes up to a point, where what you like, but anyone who wants to stand around for hours on end in what look like thigh length rubber boots has to be a tad kinky! It’s a bit like fishermen who have a problem, because any who enjoys standing around for hours on end wearing rubber in cold running water must have a problem! 😉 HAGWE everyone!
“And are you saying it is OK for Mike Mann to point out when people put silly photos of themselves on the web for anyone to see, but not OK when I do it?”
I don’t trust Michael Mann or respect him: I try to avoid behaving like him.
Jeff says:
childish, irrelevant. retweeting someone on twitter isn’t keeping “company” with them. stick to your strengths, challenging them on the science, not playing middle school popularity games
I’m with Jeff.
If you have a problem with caerbanogg666, then address him directly. Don’t unfairly impugn him because of his association with Michael Mann.
🙂
Yeh, sure: It’s an irrelevant ad hom.
But it is also funny.
I have a hunch every village has their idiot. Be careful commenters that you do not get the paint you brush across “I wanna be Alice”, on yourself. There are many who question AGW with as much weird nonsense as this man adorns himself with.
In the interests of fairness and transparency, let me say that you can find a goofy picture of me at my LinkedIn home page.
You know Anthony, the next time I have to read some prof or administrator maintaining that in this new approach, “it’s not what you know, but what you feel” that’s important, that will be the image that goes with the mindset.
It’s not the facts. It’s not the means. It’s not the actual consequences.
That will be the face that goes along with. It’s the models and theories that matter. It’s the intentions. It’s the goals.
We are on the wrong script. Reality.
Perhaps an 1957 equivalent would be Bobby Kennedy starting his search for evidence against Jimmy Hoffa might be in people’s mind?
And we are the supposed crackpots?
Not sure this post was worth it Tony. He’s a Goth, so what? I was once.
REPLY: Yes and as a kid I had a Superman cape. I outgrew that both physically and mentally. I just think its funny. – Anthony
Well it is a photo from his own photo album so to speak. Looks like he could do with a decent feed though…. Vegan Vampires must have it tough, eh?
As for his tweet…. Now that is just plain silly. What the hell would iron lung manufacturers want with Salk’s letters? Was he hiding data in them or something?
what is truly ridiculous is that Michael Mann shamelessly re-tweets an item comparing him and his work to Jonas Salk and the polio vaccine!
For that he deserves unending ridicule….. Michael Mann is a shameless dishonest agenda-driven fanatic unfit to shine the late Jonas Salk’s shoes.
Our politically correct society is so afraid of “judging” people based on their appearance.
Bill Cosby wasn’t.
BTW, who recalls the movie Airplane when the terrorists walked right through security while the little old lady had everything done but strip searched?
“Don’t judge him by his appearance”. OH puhleeze.
Comparison FAIL! Salk freely shared his research data and methodology.
There really can’t be an analogy from that period, because there was NOBODY using PSEUDOSCIENTIFIC THEORIES to kill thousands of people. Mao was doing the same thing Mann does, but Mao wasn’t doing it in the name of science; he was just “transparently” brutal.
Salk was privately funded, and he was doing applied science, not theory. He was applying known facts about vaccination to perfect a new vaccine. It worked. He SAVED thousands of lives.
Even though as a rule I don’t make fun of the mentally ill, I’m one of the skeptics/deniers who believe the CAGW promoters and their followers should be ridiculed every chance we get!
1. Jonas Salk saved millions of lives and spared countless others from a lifetime of disability. There are perhaps a few people whose names might be mentioned in the same breath, but none have cropped up in this (or most) WUWT threads.
2. Could you please stop posting that picture of Scott Mandia? Each time, just as I have bleached my brain, there it is again. Goths, shmoths, I don’t mind them. But, if I was writing a really creepy script, that would be my starting point …
Eellluug. Gag. Barf.
I agree with pokerguy.
mat says:
July 13, 2012 at 7:37 am
Oh god another Goth fallen for the Crow syndrome that’s the one where you think you are a mad avenging angle ……
=============================================================
Acute, obtuse, or reflex?
[ sorry, but it is Fridya …]
That Mann personally chooses these two people to advocate for his beliefs illustrates a breakdown in his thought process and a significant social dysfunction.
That Mann sees himself as an embattled Jonas Salk merely illustrates another of his bizarre persecution delusions.
Has anyone considered whether he may in fact suffer from Schizophrenia? He does exhibit some text book symptoms. Perhaps instead of mocking Mann we should be advocating that he seek professional help.
It’s a bit sad that such a unique individual would agree with 97% of scientists. I’m pretty sure they would not reciprocate.
Well, the independent report by former FBI Director Louis Freeh into Penn State University’s Jerry Sandusky scandal is out, and it’s damning. From the President of the university downward, it’s a searing indictment showing how far the top management was willing to go when money and prestige were on the line.
And lots of the evidence was in “private” emails on the university’s email system, showing the robustness of PSU’s archiving of such.
Mann better get in his chuckles while he can. Because Penn State really does not want the appearance of covering up anything else right now, nor should they be too keen on withholding emails from a FOI request. (“Sorry, those emails were deleted. Oh, our system can’t permanently delete them? Well, Mann reviewed them and says there’s no evidence of wrongdoing and the administration agrees this must be the case, so you can’t have them. Why shouldn’t you be able to trust us?”)
Cmon who you hang out with doesnt matter. Look at Pres Obama and his associates from high school on, and he is president! What a great country. eh?
Somehow the words of Rocky Balboa in Rocky 1 come to mind
“if you hang out with coconuts you become a coconut”
Me, I didnt have alot of friends. In fact I used to have to tie pork chops around my neck to get dogs to play with me. Probably explains why I cant figure out the hockey stick given everything else out there that runs contrary
This is Anthony’s website. If he wants to maintain a Friday Funny post, then that’s his prerogative. Certainly, you can’t claim that the Friday Funny is somehow causing a shortage of hard science posts. Personally, I think the Friday Funny provides a good dynamic mixed in with the dozens of posts that are provided every week.
…”NOBODY using PSEUDOSCIENTIFIC THEORIES to kill thousands of people….” About Salk’s time weren’t there medicine men, touring the frontier West and selling their snake oil remedies to unsuspecting rubes? Is that not a correct analogy with Mann’s operation?
If Mann had an illegitimate child, he would look just like caerbonnog. He might even be wearing (BS)waders, like Scott Mandia, for all we know.
I agree with jayhd. Make fun of them at every opportunity!
I found the original post amusing enough, nothing nasty in it. Curious as to his “real” name. You have Caesar Augustus (Latin) Rossi (Italian) Carvalho (Portugese) and the online name of Caerbannog is Welsh.
It doesn’t sound like a real name to me.
Sean, I could not agree more. He really is suffering from delusions of grandeur and sees himself as a world savior fighting a worthy cause against an army of evil “deniers”, – of evidence presumably. But his own studies (once dissected by scientists) show that it’s all in his head, or worse, that he knowingly made it up. He can’t seem to understand that it is not possible to detect an AGW signal among all the noise, which is why even the IPCC can’t point to anything definitive, other than saying “the balance of evidence suggests that there is a discernible human influence on global climate”. Meaning, we can’t really point to anything of statistical significance, but we’re still believers (i.e. it pays the electric bill).
Mann went a step further and created techniques that would filter hockey sticks from ANY random dataset, and became a hero for creating the “evidence” that was so desperately needed. Until Steve McIntyre found out. And he’s been playing the victim ever since, not very convincingly.
His work is as compelling as cold fusion and piltdown man.
Must be off to see the latest “Twighlight” flick.
What the hell is this juvenile nonsense? What happened to attacking your opponent’s arguments? Take this post down. Seriously.
Also, CaerBannog is a reference to Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
Gotta love the caped crusader and his matching hip boots!!!!!!!
LMAO!!
Umm, this photo says about a million words. Clearly, Caerbannog is a far left wing nut, and these are the types of people supporting magical CAGW. In fact, Heartland ought to put up a billboard of this clown with a caption saying “he believes in global warming, do you?’
and I’ve seen the “oh don’t make fun of him because he’s a goth”. No. Specifically make fun of him for being a big loser goth. Do you know what people become goths? I do. Idiots who cannot get attention any other way.
Remember ACORN? Follow the money of paid protesters.
So MM is using twitter to hawk a few copies of his book?
What does that pay per hour?
Oh right, He’s probably doing it at work.
@ Paul Westhaver
“Imagine Richard Feynman, showing up at the space shuttle congressional hearings dressed up in an alien costume. His sober words and famous O-Ring in Ice water demo would never have been noticed.”
Better yet imagine Feynman dressed up as a Superhero … It’s a bird! It’s a plane! It’s Feyn Man!
So I’m a bit of a Goth as well. This character is an embarassment to Goths. Goths are reputedly a skeptical and unaffiliated lot or so I am told by others looking in. Sort of the opposite of a group thinking throw back to the 1960s, which would describe most of the RC crowd.
I just find it humorous that Dr. Mann’s supporters are so, er, emotive.
——–
I find it emotive that Dr Mann’s supporters have a sense of humour. And are able to poke fun at themselves. And not take themselves to seriously.
So, we’re doing ad hominem attacks now?
Michael Bacigalupo says:
July 13, 2012 at 10:56 am
“Also, CaerBannog is a reference to Monty Python and the Holy Grail.’
yes indeed – the “Cave of CaerBannog”, the lair of the evil rabbit, is a disused copper mine on the southern shores of Loch Tay in Perthsire and is near where I grew up. I visited the mine when I was 8 or 9 and found some nice mineral specimens and that’s what got me interested in geology.
This guy looks like something out of Monty Python’s worst nightmares.
more soylent green! says:
July 13, 2012 at 11:33 am
“So, we’re doing ad hominem attacks now?”
No – only ad gothinem…
Put a shirt on Auggie. Nobody wants to see your bird chest,
Herr Dr.-Prof. Spookytooth is right. Goths are people seeking attention, and [with a little help from Anthony] Caerbannog got a lot more attention in the past few hours than most. Success, Caerbannog!! Do you have an agent?
Surely that’s Marylin Mann son
@Paul Westhaver
Except, you know, this picture was not taken at a Congressional hearing.
This is more properly described as the Poisoning the Well fallacy (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/poisoning-the-well.html), a variant of ad hominem.
Which is quite the shame – Caerbannog has some well supported work out there (try Google) regarding climate change, particularly the surface temperature anomaly data.
Jonas Salk’s vaccine was infected with the SV40 monkey virus which causes cancer, he may have been responsible for killing millions, so maybe our gothic friend’s analogy makes more sense than you realise. Its a death thang!
Let’s look at what Anthony actually wrote (He also added an update, perhaps in response to all those on here today who left their sense of humour somewhere).
But the original comment was:-
“That iron lung comment piqued my interest, and I wondered who is this guy? A well known climate blog regular, he’s been bloviating all over the climate blogs for years. After finding him though about a minute’s worth of Googling public information, I wish I could unsee what I found. Meet Caesar Augustus Rossi Carvalho (Caerbannog)”
And we have people here waxing indignant that he’s resorting to ad hominem!
Seriously, you think this is an ad hominem “attack” on this character?
OK. If THAT’s an “ad hominem”, what are we to call the hate speech crap that Anthony & the rest of us get subjected to every day?
C’mon, lighten up.
Or go start your own blog.
I’ve been thinking about the “ad hom” aspect – and I don’t think that does apply. No one is attacking this guy (or Mann) for how he looks. We’re observing his chosen image and drawing reasonable conclusions about the type of adult who would choose to look like that (i.e. as a rather dark, even evil character – note the “666” in the nick). It is fair (I think) to suggest that this person may be less than rational.
Since Jonas Salk’s vaccine actually worked, I’m sure he made all his research work available for verification. I’m sure all results were published of the effectiveness or lack of on all who were vaccinated in their studies.
Jonas Salk: Turn over my data? Sure thing. It’s important that people have full faith in the soundness of my vaccine.
Maybe we could entice Caesar Augustus Rossi Carvalho to perform with Ray Pierrehumbert. I actually would give some thought to paying to see that.
http://geosci.uchicago.edu/i/RayPierhumbert.jpg
As do some of the others [Ben Wilson @ 7:56], I find Michael’s retweeting of this comment regarding Jonas Salk the most astonishing aspect.
Being of sufficiently advanced age, I can say with only a moderate amount of disinformation that I knew Jonas Salk***. Jonas Salk was a friend of mine. And, Michael Mann, you are no Jonas Salk. [An apology to Lloyd Bentsen.]
Quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonas_Salk
“The field trial set up to test the Salk vaccine was, according to O’Neill, “the most elaborate program of its kind in history, involving 20,000 physicians and public health officers, 64,000 school personnel, and 220,000 volunteers.” Over 1,800,000 school children took part in the trial.[3] When news of the vaccine’s success was made public on April 12, 1955, Salk was hailed as a “miracle worker”, and the day “almost became a national holiday.””
***Salk was at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine. I was 60 miles away and Pittsburgh was our source of TV – the first family set arriving in the fall of 1954. Polio visited our neighborhood. Did I ever meet Dr. Salk? No. Did we all think we knew him? Yes.
Michael Bacigalupo said on July 13, 2012 at 10:56 am:
The Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog?
Oh yeah, I can see the resemblance.
blackswhitewash.com says:
July 13, 2012 at 9:12 am
Not sure this post was worth it Tony. He’s a Goth, so what? I was once.
REPLY: Yes and as a kid I had a Superman cape. I outgrew that both physically and mentally. I just think its funny. – Anthony
….
in other words…
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Chapter 13, verse 11
Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
Chapter 14, verse 20
KR says:
Caerbannog has some well supported work out there (try Google) regarding climate change, particularly the surface temperature anomaly data.
Bullshit. If Alice’s arguments were worth half a doggam he/she wouldn’t be hiding behind Daily Kos’ Kevlar Komment filter.
Here’s an example of “bird chest” pluggin Michael Mann’s ad homy book – A 911-Truther wrote the “Most helpful” 1-star Amazon review of Dr. Mann’s book “The Hockey Stick…”
You know how somebody becomes a lifetime Daily Kos diarist in good standing?
I’ll let Bob Hope explain.
[snip – fake email address from a Anonymous Proxy Server – read the policy page if you want your comment published ~mod]
I think many of the comments on this topic have entirely missed the point because of their efforts to appear politically correct with respect to being non-judgemental about lifestyles. On the conrrary, the topic highlights the bias of Mann when he disparages his opponents and bloggers for their lack of professionalism and therefore lack of gravitas in matters concerning climate science, while he at the same time lends his own claims to gravitas to a blogger exhibiting just what kind of professionalism and gravitas? Can you imagine what Mann would have to say about the professionalism and therefore the gravitas of an opponent blogger exhibiting similar behavior?
The better “example” of denialism is not iron lungs, but the Marxist “false consciousness” phenomenon. When one is involved in a pseudo-scientific thought movement, like Marxism or climate science-phrenology, you need an explanation for the contradiction of at one side claiming science on your side, and on the other maintaining the faith system that denies or ignores dissent. Thus the “false consciousness” explanation was invented, or expanded from Marx’s ideas. “False consciousness,” like denialism, is not so much to assist the deniers in their supposed defective thinking, but to gloss over the limited thinking of the accusers–the believers in the thought system that claims itself scientific. “False consciousness” is aimed at outside information, “politically correct” thinking works to keep the insiders from diverging.
The correct way to attack the denialism phenomenon is to point out the contradictions in the accusers, and the ego defenses they exhibit by using the term “deniers.”
We’re skeptics remember. Just because Cesar LOOKS like a creepy loon is not PROOF that he’s a creepy loon. He may actually be a really sweet guy.
anonymous says:
July 13, 2012 at 12:09 pm
Jonas Salk’s vaccine was infected with the SV40 monkey virus which causes cancer,
Huh. I was one of the kids in the test — when do I get my monkey cancer?
I’m always bemused at the CAGW/Leftist love of street art, puppetry, cosplay, dancing and singing. As if that makes they’re position more legitimate. No facts just emotion.
I’m amused that the great Michael Mann directs to Skeptical Science. Bring on the clowns.
============
anonymous says:
July 13, 2012 at 12:09 pm
“Jonas Salk’s vaccine was infected with the SV40 monkey virus which causes cancer, he may have been responsible for killing millions, so maybe our gothic friend’s analogy makes more sense than you realise. Its a death thang!”
Credible references please. I’m skeptical.
papiertigre – If you want to engage Caerbannog, do so on the merits of his discussion with respect to the science, such as his independent reconstruction of surface temperatures from both raw and homogenized data as discussed at http://forums.utsandiego.com/showthread.php?t=111201
Rather than the stream of insults you seem to think substitute for a factual discussion.
REPLY: Yet you ignore all the “denier” insults in his article, as if they are OK. Double standard there anonymous KR. – Anthony
Caerbannog goes further back than Monty Python. In welsh legend Caerbannog was the castle of the lord of the underworld, and where the souls of heroes went after death to be part of the Wild Hunt
Paul Westhaver says:
July 13, 2012 at 1:04 pm
in other words…
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Chapter 13, verse 11
Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
Chapter 14, verse 20
Stuff I did as a child includes snowboarding, rock climbing, triathalon, mountain biking and being an all purpose get-about.
Today? They give medals and awards to adults for discovering and living the chidhood they never had.
The man’s thoughts are a lot more important than the way he looks. If there appears to be a connection… so be it.
Prolonged heat exhaustion and dehydration (also a consequence of globbel warming) causes irreversable harm to almost all species. 30 years ago no member of the species looked like that. Now there are similar disfunctional behaviors and appearances everywhere, occuring more often and more extreme, that endanger the survival of the species. The climate is changing far too rapidly for species to adapt or migrate. Face it, the guy is the very picture of AGWs.
Hey Joe B where yer going with those pork chops in yer hand
Glenn says:
July 13, 2012 at 2:52 pm
Prolonged heat exhaustion and dehydration (also a consequence of globbel warming) causes irreversable harm to almost all species. 30 years ago no member of the species looked like that. Now there are similar disfunctional behaviors and appearances everywhere, occuring more often and more extreme, that endanger the survival of the species. The climate is changing far too rapidly for species to adapt or migrate. Face it, the guy is the very picture of AGWs.
I recognize satire when I see it. Others may not.
Since no one else has offer any, I will. A round of eye bleach, my treat.
http://eyebleach.com/ – for the men
http://guybleach.com/ – for the women
http://www.funnypuppysite.com/ – and for the family
Jimmy Haigh. says (July 13, 2012 at 7:58 am): “Can you imagine if this wierdo and “Superman” Scott Mandia got together?”
I don’t know what their offspring would look like, but I’m betting they’d name it “Damien”. (“Al Gore” is taken.)
Glenn, I see your point. ☺
http://johnnyslowhand.deviantart.com/art/Rolling-Stones-Wallpaper-109005342
An appropriate post for Friday the 13th, I would say.
For those who complain that things like that have no relevance to science:
Modern crisis in all scientific disciplines has, first and foremost, moral and cultural roots.
When you wonder, why compulsive liars, Gore and Mann, safely prosper in our society, think Michael Jackson and Lady Gaga.
@Kim
I’m amused that the great Michael Mann directs to Skeptical Science. Bring on the clowns.
If you had simply checked Twitter, you would have known that someone asked him for a list of Climategate investigations, and he linked to a page on SkepticalScience that contains such a list.
Is there a problem with that?
oh dear. You’ve fingered the wrong man!
http://climateandstuff.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/tony-at-wuwt-tredding-fine-line-again.html
Your picture is of a brazilian hevy metal band person in his 20’s. The Caerbannog you require is American and in his 50’s
Perhaps a bit more googling is required!
REPLY: Maybe, but the title of his album is “Mine Old Pics” so they may well be many years old. Since the guy is just another anonymous phantom with a silly handle (albeit a very unique one)it is hard to tell about these snipers. Reading his comment feed though he certainly doesn’t act in his 50’s, and the IP address is in the USA as satted in his YouTube Profile where “climate and stuff” got that info. If caerbannog666 wants to reveal himself so we can verify who he his, I’ll gladly make a correction if warranted. – Anthony
KR says:
July 13, 2012 at 2:19 pm
papiertigre – If you want to engage Caerbannog, do so on the merits of his discussion with respect to the science, such as his independent reconstruction of surface temperatures from both raw and homogenized data as discussed at http://forums.utsandiego.com/showthread.php?t=111201…
He has 8 pages of people telling him where to get off, already. You don’t need me over there.
Tell you what KR. You pick out the Caerbannog argument that you like the best, then you tell me why it’s good stuff over here.
Until then I’ll stick with the insults. Did you know that Tom Karl for years passed himself off as a Doctor?
KR…I’ve just wasted 5 or more precious minutes checking out Caerbannog666’s ‘reconstruction of temperatures etc’. Was very amused when someone asked him to ‘show his work’ ie the spreadsheet, data sets, algorythms etc which he used to produce his Hockey Stick. Needless to say he wasn’t forthcoming. He really does have a lot in common with m.e.mann!
Actually global warming proponents displayed much the same traits in the 1950’s as they do now.
Regarding Jonas Salk and Roger Revelle, Revelle’s Wikipedia page states:
“Revelle’s struggle to acquire land for the new campus put him in competition with Jonas Salk, and Revelle lost some of what he called the “best piece of land we had” on UCSD’s eventual Torrey Pines site to the fledgling Salk Institute. In later years Revelle continued to show some animosity toward Salk, once saying, “He is a folk hero, even though he is… not very bright.”[5] ”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Revelle#cite_ref-4
However, the source cited is not online.
Mandia should call himself, jokingly of course, Supermandia.
This Weirdo looks like one of Dick Tracy’s villains.
A hypothetical, chrisd3, if I may:
How adverse do you reckon Michael Mann would be to providing such a link to websites like Bishop Hill or Climate Audit on a scale of 1 (Hell shall freeze over first!) to 10 (Yes, any time and anywhere, openly and by my own free will under no duress or stress in conscience whatsoever) where the results of those investigations are discussed openly and freely without the heavy-handed moderation and adulteration of poster comments seen as sites like SkS?
.
LittleBadBear and the Norway Rat don’t seem to understand what the ad hominem fallacy is. It means to counter someone’s ARGUMENT by attacking the person. This post is not rebutting any argument. It is about Caerbannog’s ridiculous SNARK, and Mann’s yuk-yukking approval of it. It’s all about the hominems, who invited the attention on Twitter no less. Wait until these idiots make an argument to say that it is out of place to make fun of their prancing public foolishness.
wobble says:
July 13, 2012 at 10:37 am
‘This is Anthony’s website. If he wants to maintain a Friday Funny post, then that’s his prerogative. Certainly, you can’t claim that the Friday Funny is somehow causing a shortage of hard science posts. Personally, I think the Friday Funny provides a good dynamic mixed in with the dozens of posts that are provided every week.’
All true. I, in fact, actually missed that this was a ‘Friday Funny.’ In saying that however, it still seems that the ‘fun’ and well deserved ridicule is usually aimed, justifiably, at their ridiculous ‘science’. This gives the appearance at least, of be aimed somewhere else. Yes, the guy looks ridiculous in my opinion. Have I ever looked silly? Absolutely. Let’s just make sure our targets are, more often than not, the proper ones.
Lighten up folks.Like a few others said,it’s Friday Funny!
As to the ad homenim stuff,in this case(IMHO) I think the only people getting upset are those who are deniers that they believe Mikey MouseMann and can’t admit it. This stuff is public domain.Public.Get it?
And as for those stating we denying skeptics should be above the Warmnistas,remember….NOT showing up to riot is a failed Conservative(skeptic)policy. They deserve scorn,ridicule,laughter and every other taunt we can throw at them.And it will all be based in fact,not emotions,like the eco-nuts.
He’s a drummer too.
@jim
What does any of that have to do with anything? ‘caps741’ asked for a list of the investigations, and such a list was conveniently available on the SkepticalScience page. End of story. Mountains, molehills, etc.
Anthony, just ignore this carp. Certainly there are political points to be scored, but only with our team. The opposition will just dismiss this as juvenile.
Pot, kettle … kind of thing, So, just chuckle and move on.
Caesar Augustus?! Geez, does someone have control problems? He(?) is quite the small fellow(?).
JB Goode
He would have been better of spending some of the costume money on his nose.
“REPLY: Yes and as a kid I had a Superman cape. I outgrew that both physically and mentally. I just think its funny. – Anthony”.
i quite agree Anthony, I found it hilarious as well. It would appear that a few need to develop a sense of humour(sic). I have not seen sour grapes like this since Gore demanded that he be taken seriously. Laughter is the best….etc..Some of the grumps may want to remember that.
Bleeka?
Does it go by any other names in the blogosphere…….
Sad that Mann has been relegated to the bush of twitterland, but how appropriate; otherwise, he’s of no consequence.
No sentient adult of that appearance is serious about anything whatever. Why not just drape those obsessive/neurotic habiliments over a Hockey Stick graph and call in the white-coats?
My “friday funny” is that MM looks up to Erhlich. That is sooooo funny.
uninformedLuddite said on July 13, 2012 at 6:24 pm:
Excellent. Grant Foster is a musician too. They can get together and form a new band.
In keeping with modern spelling conventions for such, and to reflect their other mutual interest, I suggest they name the group Klimate Konfusion Khaos.
It’ll look great on the T-shirts.
Unreal, the only thing that annoys me more than alarmists is holier-than-thou skeptics – please get over yourselves.
This satirical post was completely on target by Anthony. I laughed my ass off when I read it. Sorry to break it to the sensitive, politically correct types but I find the “goth” look childish, disturbing and idiotic and so does most of society. If you look like that you really kill your job opportunities.
The science arguments come and go but Mann retweeting the goth kid, Caesar Augustus Rossi Carvalho (Caerbannog) becomes the thing of legend. Well done Anthony.
View from the Solent says:
July 13, 2012 at 9:49 am
mat says:
July 13, 2012 at 7:37 am
Oh god another Goth fallen for the Crow syndrome that’s the one where you think you are a mad avenging angle ……
=============================================================
Acute, obtuse, or reflex?
[ sorry, but it is Fridya …]
=============================================================
Silly bunny, it’s a right angle, of course!
Anthony, have you considered a video series of WUWT? As gigantic an undertaking as that might be, ……
I apologized if you have answered this question umpteen times.
Regarding this thread; I have reservations about mocking a youthful person, for I was young once too, ….. Not pity but understanding. Caerbannog666 is just trying it on. Someday he may look back and grimace a little.
Tolerance is one of the magic ingredients of WUWT IMHO.
I’m sure when Anthony posted his Friday Funny this week, he thought readers would have a well deserved chuckle & move on.
But the trolls have really taken this one to heart. They seem to be getting really bitter & twisted about this “ad hominem attack” (although there was no such thing in Anthony’s comment).
In fact, Caeser isn’t even interesting as a troll and I for one genuinely couldn’t care less what kind of image he likes to portray. Both his photo, and Scott Mandia’s photo are actually pathetic. In the old sense that they tend to arouse the emotion of pity. (But at least Scott uses his actual name).
But, remarkably, the most interesting comment here (in my book) is:-
“Menth says:
July 13, 2012 at 8:22 am
Also from Mann’s Twitter feed:
“@PaulREhrlich Thanks Paul–means a lot coming from a hero & guiding light for all of us engaged in efforts to communicate environmental risk”
Thanks, Menth!
I doubt anyone will be even a little surprised that Meltdown Mann thinks that the fifth grade eugenicist and incompetent pseudoscientist Ehrlich is a hero. But it is nice to have further actual proof that these nasty crooks and dangerous anti-human greenies get off on each other.
And, for the avoidance of doubt, that last paragraph was an “ad hominem attack”. (Although a mild one). It was intended to be one and I stand by every word of it.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that sacraments are outward signs of inward grace, instituted by Christ for our sanctification. On that Reductio ad absurdum basis, Caesar’s salad appearance is an outward sign of inward turmoil and ignorance, instituted by stupid Mann for our edification.
This is IMHO the lighter side of Caerbannog666, the pic up top. The pic he uses as his public image on the forum mentioned, where five pages of commenters challenge him, I find revolting as a visual image, even if it is “only” a reference to Monty Python’s Killer Bunny.
So thumbs up, no ad hom smell to this… but good to see the discussion around this issue…
I think this post was a bad move, Anthony, and it is more than likely to backfire in one way or another. You or Willis, cannot demand others to question what you say instead of who you are, and then do this. You lose all credibility. Plus, all the implications are dead wrong. What do you mean with this? Do you know how anybody in the world that you may have ever cited likes to dress? Do you mean that between all your followers there cannot be people with a similar appearance to that of Caerbanogg? Anything you try to imply about Mann just because he cited a guy who dresses funny, if not directly related to the comment itself, is unfair and wrong.
i’m with rattus. the difference between mann’s posting and your posting is, you want your readers and yourself to laugh at the person in the picture (at least your post reads that way, even with the update), mann laughs together with him.
I’m happy to see many skeptics skeptical and showing a sense of human decency, despite our differences. I join them in condemning this post.
I’m writing under a pseudonym here and it’s my right to do so. And even though it’s not that hard to find out a thing or two about me through google, I definitely would not appreciate being publicly exposed and ridiculed here, Anthony. (Although one might argue it’s an honor, a sign of recognition…)
One bridge too far.
I would appreciate an apology and retraction. Please don’t do this again in the future.
Not that it will make a difference – particularly given the research skills and arithmetical prowess (combined with history of the internet) showcased here – however, since twitter is being referred to …
https://twitter.com/caerbannog666/status/224013602351362048
Won’t make much difference. The blog post has served its purpose.
If Mann keeps promoting his book, can I keep promoting my CAGW song?
I think most commenters are missing the significance of this post. Caerbannog666 is an anonymous nobody and what he says is of little importance. It is Mann’s re-tweeting of his comment that is important.
In my opinion, it could only be viewed as an ad hominem attack if the tweet were unrelated to the climate debate. But clearly it is Mann’s work as a climate scientist being compared to Salk’s work as an immunologist that he obviously relishes. I think Mann sees himself as a saviour figure. In that light the comparison with Scott Mandia as a “caped climate crusader” is entirely appropriate. This ‘saviour complex’ (for wont of a better term) comes through in much of the warmists writings (e.g. Hansen and Al Gore). They see themselves as on a crusade or, as the title of Mann’s latest book suggests, fighting a war -the 384 page book Mann felt compelled to write, promote and tweet about because the skeptic attacks were such a distraction from his important work saving the planet.
Many people accept what climate scientists, like Mann, say because they can see no reason why they would do anything underhand. Their motivation and psychology, including their vanity, ego and hubris, is a valid subject for scrutiny.
H.R. says:
July 13, 2012 at 2:14 pm
anonymous says:
July 13, 2012 at 12:09 pm
“Jonas Salk’s vaccine was infected with the SV40 monkey virus which causes cancer, he may have been responsible for killing millions, so maybe our gothic friend’s analogy makes more sense than you realise. Its a death thang!”
Credible references please. I’m skeptical.
——-
if you doubt that sv40 was in the vaccine googletube maurice hilleman, bernice eddy, if you doubt it has any connection to cancer you could look at sv40foundation.org where you can find an overview and links to published nature journal articles. if you want more i would suggest the book “the virus and the vaccine”, and as a follow up Ed Haslan’s book Dr Mary’s monkey is interesting, albeit speculative, not least of which is an sv40 connection to david ferrie, jfk etc.
Bill Tuttle says:
July 13, 2012 at 1:41 pm
Huh. I was one of the kids in the test — when do I get my monkey cancer?
—
as a 30 year smoker, when will i get cancer?
as I understand the details, sv40 acts as a p53 suppressor so inhibits the ability of your immune system to suppress cancer.
the point and comparison i was putting forward is that the road to hell is paved with good intentions and I see much irony in mr gothic’s iron lung/green agenda analogy.
Perhaps it would be different if Anthony had received the photo of Caerbannog666 anonymously in the post and then published it claiming that it had come from Caerbannog’s MySpace site. Caerbannog’s photo is a not just a record of how someone happens to look. He has obviously gone to some length to achieve that “look” and has chosen to present it to the world. I think it fair to say it is how he wants the world to perceive him.
Following on from my previous comment, some have pointed out the similarities between Caerbannog’s look and that of the comic book character The Crow.
So Michael Mann whose latest book proclaims he is fighting a war propagates comparisons between himself and a saviour figure like Jonas Salk. The man who made the comparison dresses up as an avenging angel (The Crow) and Scott Mandia, Mann’s legal counsel, dresses up as a “caped climate crusader”, and publishes a photo. I think that is worthy of comment.
Oh come on people get real!
The picture above is not the climate warmist – he is Brazxilian (or italian) and a heavy metal band member.
from his myspace page:
Status: Married
Hometown: Belo Horizonte – Brasil
Body type: 175cm / Body builder
Religion: Atheist
Zodiac Sign: Cancer
Children: I don’t want kids
Smoke / Drink: Yes / Yes
Education: In college
Occupation: Hell’s Drums Avenger
age 31? (hover over picture)
Caesar Augustus Rossi Carvalho’s (Caerbannog) Band
http://www.myspace.com/music/player?sid=65194316&ac=now
The person you wish to denigrate is:
From Caerbannogs comments he seems to have an excellent English ability, and from his youtube profile is from USA and is 57 years old!
by caerbannog666
Block User
Send Message
Latest Activity
10 Mar 2012
Date Joined
9 Aug 2006
Age
57
Country
United States
http://www.youtube.com/user/caerbannog666/feed
His tweets seem to back his age
caerbannog666@caerbannog666
I posted this above
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/07/13/friday-funny-dr-michael-mann-keeps-interesting-company/#comment-1031952
with a link to another site. Anthony refuses to update the posting without caerbannog stepping forward.
One is innocent of being a warmist, the other is innocent of being a goth!
REPLY: Maybe, but the title of his Myspace album is “Mine Old Pics” so they may well be many years old. Since the guy is just another anonymous phantom with a silly handle (albeit a very unique one) it is hard to tell about these snipers. Reading his comment feed though he certainly doesn’t act in his 50′s, and the IP address is in the USA as stated in his YouTube Profile where “climate and stuff” got that info. So far all he’s done is make a tweet with the link to this that says “swing and a miss”. Given his history of volatile and hateful commentary, you’d think that if I identified him as the wrong man, he’d be writing daggers there and leaving angry comments here demanding a retraction. But he isn’t. So, I’m skeptical. People lie about their age every day, it is probably the most common lie by adults. Maybe he wanted to appear older to be taken more seriously. Or, 57 could be a typo. And he could have moved, and could have changed his mind about his personal life. I just don’t know. There’s just not enough information.
He’s the only one that can ascertain whether he’s one and the same or if in fact there are two different caerbannog666 identities on the net, or if they are simply one and the same and those are old photos or the age listed is wrong. If caerbannog666 wants to reveal himself (and he can demonstrate that privately to me if he wishes) so I can verify who he his, I’ll gladly make a correction if warranted.
In the meantime, its a Friday Funny, everybody lighten up.
– Anthony
@David Ross
And yet the whole point of this post isn’t the retweeting, it’s what Caerbannog (allegedly) looks like. If you doubt that, imagine that the photo showed a middle-aged white guy sitting at a picnic table, srrounded by family, eating fried chicken and drinking lemonade.
Do you think this post would still exist?
papiertigre, charles nelson, others – If you’re looking at Caerbannog’s discussion of climate science, then I have only one thing to say.
Excellent. Examine his data, his results, and discuss those. Rather than what he might look like. As to which of his posts I find interesting, http://forums.utsandiego.com/showpost.php?p=4657024&postcount=86 is worth reading, and includes data for your examination.
Of course, considering the information from sergeiMK at July 14, 2012 at 6:08 am, the person in the picture may not be the one tweeting Mann at all…
REPLY: See my comment addition above, he’s the only one who can determine that, and so far he isn’t talking. You should look at caerbannog666’s history of volatile and hateful commentary at blogs sites around the web. As for his UT discussion, I don’t see much there. Yes he shows the data, but has not been forthcoming on what he did with the data and how he arrived at his conclusion. -Anthony
That’s both acute and obtuse. The word is “angel”. Wings, halo, etc.
Anthony, you are apparently agreeing that there is at least the possibility that this guy isn’t the climate-commenting caerbannog but a much younger Brazilian musician.
Yet your post hasn’t been updated. It still says definitively that you “found” him. It admits of no possibility that these are two different people.
You have, for some unfathomable reason, attempted to associate Mann with some goth-looking guy whose picture you found, simply because Mann re-tweeted something. This was silly to begin with. Now you know, and admit, that it may not even be the same guy, and you’ve done nothing.
“Friday Funny” may be in the title, but it’s not funny. Neither is your attempt to hide behind the title. The intent of this post is transparent. It’s not humor. It’s to make Mann look ridiculous by association–an association which is itself exceedingly tenuous. Now you know that the association may not even exist, but the post remains untouched.
This seems right to you?
REPLY: Like I said, I’ll be happy to make a correction if ‘caerbannog666’ provides some information to demonstrate one way or the other that he is/is not the same person, he’s aware, but so far hasn’t. He’s the only one who can. And Mann doesn’t need my help to look ridiculous, he does fine all by himself with the Jonas Salk retweet (and many other things). – Anthony
chrisd3 wrote:
“If … the photo showed a middle-aged white guy sitting at a picnic table, srrounded by family, eating fried chicken and drinking lemonade. Do you think this post would still exist?”
A: Yes, Mann’s tweet is worth comment.
Q: Would the Caerbannog’s photo still appear if he were as you describe?
A: Almost certainly not, unless he were again dressed up like Crow ‘the avenging angel’.
I think Caerbannog looks ridiculous and I’m not afraid to say so.
Caerbannog has already tweeted about this post and did not deny the photo was of him. Anthony has already stated he will retract if there has been a case of mistaken identity. He isn’t drawing attention to or mocking anyone’s physical appearance e.g. skin colour, ethnicity, disability, gender or sexual orientation. Caerbannog chose that look and chose to present it to the world. His everyday appearance may be very different, but that photo, together with his pseudonym, is his chosen Internet persona. He also chose to go online and post a lot of vituperative stuff about climate “deniers” in general and Anthony in particular.
I can’t imagine someone would go to that much effort with their appearance for people to be indifferent. He is making a visual statement, in a way a man in unremarkable attire, sitting at a picnic table is not. And it is every bit as valid to comment on it as on a written statement in a blog.
If you finally put a face to someone who, otherwise anonymously, has been slandering you on multiple websites and the face (through costume and make-up and demeanour) is ridiculous would you not react as Anthony did and say “I had to laugh”. With little comment Anthony only directed his readers to material that Caerbannog freely posted online.
@David Ross
You’re missing the point. If the (alleged) caerbannog didn’t look the way he (allegedly) does, this post wouldn’t even be here.
Look at the title. It’s not “Dr. Michael Mann retweets something stupid,” it’s “Dr. Michael Mann keeps interesting company.”
It’s not about the tweet. It’s about Mann’s alleged association with a weird-looking guy.
@Anthony:
There’s no “if” about it. The correction is already needed. You’ve admitted that this may not be the same caerbannog, yet your post states definitively that it is.
REPLY: yet he doesn’t deny it, hence the rub. Sorry, I don’t agree with your opinion. – Anthony
So if there are bloggers out there claiming things that are untrue about you Anthony, you’d expect to have to prove to their satisfaction that these were indeed untrue on their blogs before you would expect them to correct their posts?
By this reasoning, you could make up all sorts of stories about all sorts of people and only if they came here to correct you would you change your post. Seems a bit uneven to me.
REPLY: I’ve asked for corrections in the past, such as the time I asked for a factual correction to an article and got accused of having sex with farm animals for my trouble. See here and scroll down to the bottom and note the “corrections” in red. They refuse to take that down too. So, I’ve given up trying for the activists that you consort with and defend, they simply don’t care. Caerbannog666 hasn’t asked for a correction, nor has he denied he’s the person in the photos. He’s aware, but has done nothing. I’m not the least bit interested in what a few anonymous cowards think I should do/not do. ‘Caerbannog666’ has to make the request and he’s the only one whose opinion matters. He can use the contact form, or he can leave a comment on tips and notes. So far he’s done nothing. And since I’m tiring of the usual anonymous people who think that their opinion matters more on this issue, I’m closing comments. As stated, if ‘Caerbannog666’ wants a correction, he can ask for one and show why, and if he can demonstrate why he’s not the same person, I’ll gladly make a correction.
UPDATE: 7/16/2012 Caebannog666 writes at his UT San Diego Forum:
– Anthony