Short notice – this is on NOW.
Worth watching, even if only for how they justify saying ‘black carbon and other “short-lived” greenhouse gases.’. I didn’t know black carbon was a gas. Here’s the release:
On Thursday, May 24, at 12 NOON EASTERN DAYLIGHT TIME / 9:00 AM PACIFIC DAYLIGHT TIME, a group of internationally acclaimed scientists will present to the California Air Resources Board findings on black carbon and other “short-lived” greenhouse gases.
The presentation will be webcast. For more information, see the email below and visit http://www.cal-span.org.
MEDIA ADVISORY: Leading scientists to present findings on black carbon and climate change to California Air Resources Board
Presentation to be Webcast – visit http://www.cal-span.org for details.
Thursday, May 24, 2012 at 9:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time
SACRAMENTO – On Thursday, May 24, six internationally recognized scientists will describe their findings on black carbon and other ‘short-lived’ greenhouse gases to the California Air Resources Board.
Their research will demonstrate that focusing on methane, hydrofluorocarbons, and black carbon would be a highly effective strategy to mitigate impacts of climate change especially in Arctic regions.
The studies to be presented are among a body of growing research indicating the dangers posed by black carbon. On Saturday, the G8 announced that it will formally join the Climate and Clean Air Coalition to Reduce Short-Lived Climate Pollutants (launched in February) complementing efforts to address carbon dioxide emissions.
What: Presentation of Research Findings on Short-Lived Climate Pollutants
Who:
Dr. Mark Jacobson, Professor Civil and Environmental Engineering, Stanford
Dr. V. Ramanathan, Professor Scripps Instit. of Oceanography, UC San Diego
Dr. Marc L. Fischer, Staff Scientist, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
Dr. Erika Sasser, Senior Policy Advisor, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
Dr. Alan Lloyd, President, International Council on Clean Transportation
Mr. Durwood Zaelke, President, Institute for Governance and Sustainable Development
Where:
Byron Sher Auditorium
CalEPA Headquarters, 2nd Floor
1001 I Street, Sacramento, California 95814
When: 9:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Thursday, May 24th, 2012
NOTE: THIS PRESENTATION WILL BE WEBCAST. Visit http://www.cal-span.org for details.
ARB’s mission is to promote and protect public health, welfare, and ecological resources through effective reduction of air pollutants while recognizing and considering effects on the economy. The ARB oversees all air pollution control efforts in California to attain and maintain health based air quality standards.
Office of Communications 1001 I Street, Sacramento CA 95814. Ph:
(916) 322-2990
Soot in California? Maybe the eco-hippies with their wood-burning stoves?
My bet: ahead of Rio these ‘acclaimed scientists’ will claim black carbon and other short lived gh gases explain the failure of higher CO² levels to toast the planet…
Two years ago while driving I heard an interview with Mary Nichols, head of CARB. She was asked about manufacturing jobs that would be lost by California’s cap & trade system. She first nattered on about green jobs, but the interviewer pointed out that many other types of manufacturing would be driven from the state. Nichols finally said “There are some jobs we don’t need.”
I drove to the side of the road so I could scream in rage. The U6 unemployment for California is over 20% and increasing. Some family members have been lightly or unemployed since the recession began. The factory I work at is considering moving to Texas when our lease expires. This state is doomed, it’s becoming like a state-wide Detroit.
Black carbon gas, a new terror weapon? What will they dream up next?
Wow – calling soot a gas goes into the “so dumb you can’t even call it wrong” category
I didn’t know black carbon was a gas.
The following has some contradictory statements:
http://www.stopblackcarbon.com/Black_carbon_biomass_burning.htm
“The Nature of Black Carbon and Its Effects on Earth
Black Carbon is a solid carbon particle, however small it may be. It is considered an aerosol due to its very small size, as it remains suspended in the air for some time, and it is carried by air movement or turbulence into higher layers of our atmosphere.
Summary
Carbon Dioxide and Black Carbon (smoke) are understood to be undesirable Greenhouse Gases and efforts must be implemented worldwide to reduce the emissions of them.”
So I guess the answer is that while black carbon is really a solid, it is thought of as a gas due to its small size as it does not drop to earth like a clump of coal.
So that makes water and watervapour the same actually. Water is just liquid steam. Sheesh.
I listened for a few minutes – sad very sad.
I’m sorry, but I just can’t continue to listen to these people talk about CO2 as a pollutant. I had to turn off the webcast.
Carbon is a gas.
[facepalm]
I figure their models finally achieved complete reality in their tiny minds, and the global average temp has vaporized all the carbon (which explains why I keep losing pencils). I’d better crank up my nasty ol’ coal-fired-electrical-plant-powered A/C charged with Freon.
“”””” On Thursday, May 24, at 12 NOON EASTERN DAYLIGHT TIME / 9:00 AM PACIFIC DAYLIGHT TIME, a group of internationally acclaimed scientists will present to the California Air Resources Board findings on black carbon and other “short-lived” greenhouse gases. “””””
This is an example of what happens, when they don’t teach English grammar any more.
My favorite of this genre, is an oft repeated radio ad by a well known California Hardware chain.
A typical rendition, goes something like this :-
“This weekend, all our one quart potted plants will be on sale; buy one an get one for free. This is just one of over 40,000 other items we have for your needs. “
Well, I cringe at that “for free” to begin with. Whatever happened to; buy one, and get one free ?
But the last sentence needs correcting to:- “This is NOT one of over 40,000 other items we have for your needs. Or if you prefer:- This is one of 40,000 items we have for your needs.
But I’m not surprised by any of the utterances of Mary Nichols; who is the chief scientist of CARB; well, she was a nurse once, I believe.
When the scorched earth policy of the loons in California finally succeeds it will be an entirely agricultural state growing nothing but hippies and weed.
No, I’m sorry, we’ve had to cut off the water. Nothing but hippies and delta smelt.
Nothing more than a propaganda attempt by CARB to paint CO2 and carbon soot with the same brush. “Guilt by association”! Carbon soot = CO2 = ALL CARBON BAD! A blatant attempt to confuse a gullible public!
Should Durwood Zaelke be considered as one of a list of six scientists? He’s a lawyer, not a scientist. It appears his primary job is founding and co-founding stuff, for which he makes himself the president or a director.
Durwood is founder and President of the Institute for Governance & Sustainable Development (IGSD) in Washington, DC and Geneva
Durwood is Director of the Secretariat for the International Network for Environmental Compliance & Enforcement (INECE) in Washington, DC and Geneva
He is the co-founder and co-Director of the Program on Governance for Sustainable Development at the Bren School of Environmental Science & Management, UCSB.
Durwood was co-founder and President (1989-2003) of the Center for International Environmental Law in Washington, DC and Geneva
Durwood was co-founder and board member (1989-2004) of the Foundation for International Environmental Law & Development in London (formerly CIEL-UK)
Durwood was founder and director (1990-2004) of the International & Comparative Environmental Law Program at the American University law school
Durwood was founder and director (1988-89) of the International Program at Earth Justice
Durwood was co-founder of the Policy, Legislation & Special Litigation Section
Durwood was founder of the Energy Conservation Section in the Environmental Division of the Justice Department (1978-80).
I’m not seeing any scientific. peer-reviewed work in there at all. It’s all legal and political.
Wow, global warming must be really getting extreme in California if Carbon is now changed from its very thermodynamically stable solid state into a gas.
Or perhaps this “group of internationally acclaimed scientists” would be better described as a “group of internationally derided hacks”.
This presentation highlights the prescience of Vaclav Klaus’ statement at the Heartland conference. We are beginning to focus on the debates about our future as represented in the upcoming elections, but it is sadly obvious that those elections are a complete charade as even in the impossible case of a clean sweep victory, at all levels of elected governance from the federal to the smallest town board, of people totally dedicated to restricting and repealing the power of all these bureaucratic fiefdoms which now constitute our true rulers, the prospect of them being able to construct the kind of political consensus necessary to deflect our bureaucratic overlords from their chosen path in a way that is more than marginal, is incredibly slim.
Despite the well demonstrated weaknesses of the science which is the justification for their programs these people all possess an absolute certainty that they alone can save the world and no matter what the cost their plans will and must be implemented. It is obvious from the concentrated doublespeak in this presentation that not a single one of these folks would even consider exposing themselves to a contrary viewpoint. The notion that their nonsensical plans won’t be completely effective and the greatest thing since sliced bread, that their knowledge and understanding of what is happening in the real world is more than infinitesimally less than perfect, that their manipulations of the complex world can’t control the future environment with minute precision never seems to enter a single mind here.
Unfortunately only a scant percentage of the population is even aware that these folks exist, let alone what plans they are beavering away to implement. Most will only become aware of them when their jackbooted minions show up at the door to declare that the rights and property that you thought were yours are no longer operative, that for the good of the planet you must do exactly as you are told, that if you have any objections your options are exactly none.
Everyone on the public teat is forever seeking to extend the life of his rice bowl or is trying to find a new one. So, although the exact name may change, government “climate scientists” will continue to generate noise and alarm over some environmental hobgoblin that government must fix – and never fix it.
Hold the phone. They have obviously broken new scientific ground here with the “discovery” that soot, aka “black carbon” is a greenhouse gas. I await with bated breath the scientific paper where they show that a solid, varying in size from 10nm to 70nm is now in fact a gas.
George E. Smith; says:
May 24, 2012 at 10:46 am
This is an example of what happens, when they don’t teach English grammar any more.
Here are other examples.
In an office:
AFTER TEA BREAK STAFF SHOULD EMPTY THE TEAPOT AND STAND UPSIDE DOWN ON
THE DRAINING BOARD
Outside a secondhand shop:
WE EXCHANGE ANYTHING – BICYCLES, WASHING MACHINES, ETC. WHY NOT BRING
YOUR WIFE ALONG AND GET A WONDERFUL BARGAIN?
Notice in health food shop window:
CLOSED DUE TO ILLNESS
Spotted in a safari park:
ELEPHANTS PLEASE STAY IN YOUR CAR
Seen during a conference:
FOR ANYONE WHO HAS CHILDREN AND DOESN’T KNOW IT, THERE IS A DAY CARE ON
THE 1ST FLOOR
Notice in a farmer’s field:
THE FARMER ALLOWS WALKERS TO CROSS THE FIELD FOR FREE, BUT THE BULL
CHARGES.
Message on a leaflet:
IF YOU CANNOT READ, THIS LEAFLET WILL TELL YOU HOW TO GET LESSONS
On a repair shop door:
WE CAN REPAIR ANYTHING. (PLEASE KNOCK HARD ON THE DOOR – THE BELL
DOESN’T WORK)
KALI-FOR-NEE-I-Ay !
Haven’t you worked it out yet ? Once that get rid of all of you hard-workin’ tax-payin’ citizens that clog up the place and make it crowded, dirty, and smelly … the only ones left will be the hippies who don’t mind dirty and smelly and the Hollywood ‘scientists’ who don’t need to work for a living.
They’ll have it all to themselves !
The extra heat from global warming has raised the temperature of california wildfires above the black carbon critical temperature creating the previously unknown toxic gas.
Streetcred says: “… the only ones left will be the hippies who don’t mind dirty and smelly and the Hollywood ‘scientists’ who don’t need to work for a living.”
But of course Hollywood personalities’ opinions are worth much more than anyone else’s. They have tons of money, so they must be smart! Right? Right?
Where does a “short-lived gas” go to die?
It appears that Mr. Zaelke is more lawyer than scientist. Why was he included? He’s worked for the Sierra Club Legal Defense Fund and previously as Special Litigation Attorney with the Department of Justice. He and his org. INECE, seem to be in agreement with the UN’s Agenda 21 ( http://www.inece.org/Newsletter6.pdf ). There was an article in the Sacramento Bee today about the residents of El Dorado County complaining that a lot is being done by various govenmental groups to insitute this program in their county. Though they don’t have much direct evidence of that. I find it interesting that Zaelke was described as a top scientist.
I was hoping someone would post the substance of what was said.
Judging by the limited information above, it looks like more of the ‘carbon is dirty’ propaganda that the current Australian government pumps out continously. Which seeks to blur the distinction between carbon dioxide and particulate carbon, ie soot in the public’s mind.
@Werner Brozek says:
>>”Black Carbon is a solid carbon particle, however small it may be. It is considered an aerosol due to its very small size, as it remains suspended in the air for some time, and it is carried by air movement or turbulence into higher layers of our atmosphere.”
>So I guess the answer is that while black carbon is really a solid, it is thought of as a gas due to its small size as it does not drop to earth like a clump of coal.
+++++++++++++
No, it is thought of as a aerosol. Aerosols are not gases. It does drop to earth as a lump. Small particles, particularly when they are really small, join together quite rapidly. Some, like giant dendritic particles, have a thousand or more small particles stuck together randomly like an handful of those marble shaped magnets.
True BC is about 640 times the heating power of CO2 if you over-rate CO2 by a factor of 3 or 4 (on a per kg basis) so it is pretty powerful. It gets hot from sunlight and immediately heats the surrounding gases. BC is found in aircraft flying at 40,000 ft. It used to be said (by the IPCC) that it fell to earth quickly so it was of only local consequence. Investigations made flying model aircraft in the Indian Brown Cloud found significantly more heating than was expected.
There is probably a lot less BC floating around than there used to be because almost all the annual forest and grass burning in North America has been stopped. Traditionally the fires were used to clear forest to make better grazing for deer. For example, all the open areas in Northern Alberta were maintained artificially because the deer population does much better on grassland than in the thick woods.
It seems to me unlikely that BC changes the temperature of the atmosphere permanently. The atmosphere is very effective at venting additional heat from whatever source. Eliminating it entirely might bring some unwanted cooling but not much.
David Corcoran says:
“…The U6 unemployment for California is over 20% and increasing. Some family members have been lightly or unemployed since the recession began. The factory I work at is considering moving to Texas when our lease expires. This state is doomed, it’s becoming like a state-wide Detroit.”
The big fault in California is not the San Andreas Fault, but financial default.
Werner Brozek says:
“…So I guess the answer is that while black carbon is really a solid, it is thought of as a gas due to its small size as it does not drop to earth like a clump of coal.”
Just tell them that it’s clear carbon, because you get the same carbon atoms as in diamonds!
Speaking of Detroit, plastered on Drudge:
Half of Detroit’s Streetlights May Go Out as City Shrinks
True BC is about 640 times the heating power of CO2 if you over-rate CO2 by a factor of 3 or 4 (on a per kg basis) so it is pretty powerful. It gets hot from sunlight and immediately heats the surrounding gases.
Just because BC heats the atmosphere, it doesn’t follow it warms the climate. The heating results from intercepting sunlight that would otherwise penetrate lower in the atmosphere, most of it reaching the surface.
As a general rule the higher heat is in atmosphere the sooner it will be radiated out to space. So the overall effect of BC is to reduce the time solar energy remains in the Earth’s climate, thus cooling the climate.
The above will be true as long as BC doesn’t change the Earth’s albedo, which it likely does, reducing the Earth’s albedo, because it is darker than the Earth’s surface. But this complicated by BC also seeding clouds.
The experience from India is that substantial amounts of BC reach the mid to upper troposphere. (in the dry season) and the net effect is surface cooling. So overall it appears the sunlight interception effect is larger than the albedo effect.
However, this effect disappears in the wet season. So how much BC affects the climate in an area is strongly related to its rainfall regime.
TANSTAAFL says:
Carbon is a gas.
It is if it’s hot enough. When I tried to check how hot this is one website gave 4098 K, another gave 5100.15 K. So there appears to be some confusion about how hot is “hot enough”…
“”””” Werner Brozek says:
May 24, 2012 at 1:13 pm
George E. Smith; says:
May 24, 2012 at 10:46 am
This is an example of what happens, when they don’t teach English grammar any more.
Here are other examples. “””””
Way to go Werner; I see you play the game well !!
George
@george E. Smith
I like this one:-
I spent last weekend with my relatives on their ranch. Because he has a badly sprained wrist, I had to help my uncle jack off his horse.
Every McDonald’s drive-through I’ve seen here in California has a sign, “Braille menu available upon request.”
Ponder that one a bit. Multiple layers of WUWT involved.
hmm, i guess that asian guy with his fake degree didn’t make the cut this time.
About the farmer and his bull; you need to distinguish solecism and humor. I find no errors in that notice!