Here’s the popup message solicitation you get when you visit the website for the first time:
Climate change is melting the North Pole and it’s no longer safe for Santa and his Workshop. So our dear old friend is packing up the sleigh to find somewhere else to live.
You can help! Move your mouse over this website to find gifts you can buy Santa to help him set up a temporary Workshop and protect the North Pole for his return.
Of course, you’re savvy enough to know we won’t be sending actual gifts to Santa. You will receive a tax receipt for 100% of your purchase and proceeds will be used by the David Suzuki Foundation to support our critical work to protect nature and the environment from threats like climate change.
Buying these green gifts and personalized ecards on behalf of hard-to-buy-for friends or relatives on your holiday list is a great way to show you’re thinking of them — and the planet!
Sincere thanks,
The David Suzuki Foundation
This is nothing more than a thinly veiled revenue generator for the foundation.
No shame, no scruples, just send money. Is it any wonder informed people are doubting the climate change issue when presented with crap like this?
h/t to Mike Bromley in Canada who writes:
Canadian geneticist-turned-environmentalist David Suzuki targeted children in his latest outburst of emotionally-charged enviro-gab, this time scaring the fun out of Christmas by warning that Santa’s home was melting. In a post-black-Friday period of climate-ethical circus generation, this takes the cake. This is beyond reprehensible.
Here’s what the North Pole looks like today:
UPDATE: Here’s a clip from 1972 showing Suzuki comparing humans to maggots in his own words. Looks like that must have been his Che’ Guevara period. (h/t Daily Bayonet)
Climate Chnage? Title Change lol 🙂
“No shame, no scruples, just send money.”
I’m not sure how that makes them special: Many religions beg for money.
This will do them more harm than good. “None so blind”, etc……
David Suzuki is an evil evil man, people are a “cancer” in the eyes of this freak and the like of him, I think Santa will be bringing this scoundrel a bag of ashes this Christmas, a very fitting gift for this kind of misanthropist!!
I wonder if kids realize the North Pole is under water. I think Suzuki should take a group of environmental activists to the North Pole on Dec.25 th to show how warm it really is up there. And may he turn into the frozen shit that he is.
Are you denying that the Arctic is experiencing melting that normally happens on geological timescales in just a few decades?
Are you denying that the Arctic is is experiencing some of the most extreme warming, as predicted by IPCC?
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
What do you expect from a guy who cries himself to sleep over eco-doom everynight? David really does believe that Santa’s house is melting.
Please Mummy can Santa bring us another piece of coal for the fire?
No, I keep telling you, only naughty kids get coal. You’re on the nice list, which means we get to freeze this winter because Santa’s building another airport in the Maldives.
“It’s a travesty”.
No, really, it is.
But, seriously folks – what did Santa do all those other times in the past when the North Pole was ice free? Was his home ruined? Or, has he been clever enough to have a house boat? I mean, c’mon man – this is simple something he’s delt with many times in the past, why would he be soliciting for help now? Oh, wait – the money goes to Suziki.
Shame. Perhaps some dirty coal in Suziki’s stocking would be in order.
“Pay us or the Jolly Fat Man gets it!” Nice work, guys. >:-(
Indoctrinate them while it still can! It’s the same with religion.
I agree with David Ball: “This will do them more harm than good.”
>>Many OTHER religions beg for money
There. Fixed it.
Non regulating man made climate change is a real as Santa.
People like Suzuki seem to feel that their self-righteousness, their self-appointed roles as saviours, can justify such abuse of childhood and charm. ‘Shoddy Suzuki’ is the epithet that comes to my mind. As did the 10:10 movie in a more barbaric way, this advert reveals an alienation from ‘ordinary folk’ that is astonishing to see.
At least he is dressed as a court Jester. Truth in advertizing.
Getting Warm says:
November 30, 2011 at 10:17 am
Off-topic, GW. You’re trying to climb into the conversation, implicitly supporting Suzuki’s onerous pitch. You don’t understand the issue at hand, either.
99 cents store is selling Coal Cookies for bad-kids’ stockings,
sugar-free and butter-free too.
I guess this would be a good opportunity to tell kids that Santa doesn’t exist – and that adults lie to them all the time to get them to behave like they want.
Seems like a life lesson.
Getting Warm says:
November 30, 2011 at 10:17 am
Are you denying that the Arctic is experiencing melting that normally happens on geological timescales in just a few decades?
Are you denying that the Arctic is is experiencing some of the most extreme warming, as predicted by IPCC?
Quiet simply we don’t know, we only have just over 30 years of accurate records. That’s no time at all in climate science.
What about Superman’s Fortress of Solitude, huh? WHERE WILL THE MAN OF STEEL GO TO LISTEN TO THE TAPES OF HIS FATHER!!!
Getting Warm says:
November 30, 2011 at 10:17 am
Are you denying that the Arctic is experiencing melting that normally happens on geological timescales in just a few decades?
Are you denying that the Arctic is is experiencing some of the most extreme warming, as predicted by IPCC?
===================================================================
Nope. I just don’t give a rats ass.
Looking damned snowy at the North Pole right now, maybe they are talking about a different one, I hear there are more than one, for the Warmists!
Unfortunately Santa can no longer afford to heat his home and his elves are freezing to death. Due to climate change “scientists” making up “the facts” as they go along, green taxes on energy bills are going to kill thousands of people this winter.
We would ask you to buy these worthless Carbon Credits to help Santa move to a warmer location, but even then he cannot afford the energy he needs to keep his workshops running as they also need machinery which cannot run on fairy dust. So his workshops will have to close down and all his elves and reindeer will be out of a job. Ever raising energy prices are pushing up the cost of goods ans services around the world at a time when people have less and less money to pay for items. This means providers of goods and services are faced with having to cut jobs and in some cases close down all together as it is no longer profitable to run some businesses whilst costs keep on spiralling up.
David Suzuki is one sick puppy, scaremongering children is as low as it gets, but he had a great tutor in Al parasite Gore.
This reveals again the uncaring mentality that unfortunately pervades some of the CAGW supporters. This campaign is targeted at misleading children into giving money to Suzuki’s own foundation. Previously, we have had the unwholesome 10:10 campaign depicting abuse (explosions) towards dissenting children. Al Gore’s global change movie was propaganda aimed at children and which fortunately cannot be shown to schoolchildren in the UK without first listing all of the inaccuracies in the film.
We need an equivalent protection for websites like Suzuki’s or 10:10. They should be a recommended ‘parental guidance’ list for protection against abusive environmentalists.
A few years ago Suzuki was concerend that his own children had been hearing so much end of the world propaganda they were getting badly depressed about their future, so he decided to take them to Europe to view the great things thay are doing over there to save the planet from anthropgenic doom.
Of course he later turned it into a tv show and then sold it.
Ever notice how when some weather event or another occurs, an alarmist will wet himself silly, wailing about our impending doom, but when climatic events change course, the ignore it years?
The arctic hasn’t had any significant ice loss for years now….. http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/plots/icecover/icecover_current.png ….. and http://suyts.wordpress.com/2011/10/03/an-update-to-the-minimum-ice-extent/
Yeh, that’s quite a death spiral we got going on.
Maybe Anthony should have a popup, possiby by Josh.
‘Climate scientists: Send your money grants to Superman, he aso lives in the North pole. And he’s bl**dy freezing’
with a picture of Clark Kent warming his frozen hands on a lump of Travesty kryptonite
David Suzuki…
Back when I was in middle school, I remember the abject terror that the ‘science’ teachers would go on about when they read the information that was provided by him to various school boards. Back then? Yep scared the living hell out of me, until I grew up and looked into things on my own. If I feel hate towards anyone, it’s him and his ‘lets terrorize kids’ mentality.
Neil Jones — A few decades of data? HaHa.
Arctic sea ice became a feature of the Arctic by 47 Mya, following a pronounced
decline in atmospheric pCO2 after the Paleocene–Eocene Thermal Optimum, and consistently covered at least part of the Arctic Ocean for no less than the last 13–14 million years. Ice was apparently most widespread during the last 2–3 million years, in accordance with Earth’s overall cooler climate.
Try millions of years.
Last time the Arctic was ice free was maybe 125,000 years ago during a natural burst of CO2.
Which makes the fact that Santa’s home melting a very unique event.
I clicked on one of the gifts and it’s an “elf hockey stick”. Just as the cross is to Christians the hockey stick has become an iconic symbol for the faithful.
Organizations like the Suzuki Foundation, WWF and the other that have no shame. The other side of the coin has no shame either. We, the society or collective, have done this to ourselves and for a very, very long time to. We have allowed the special interests far to hijack the commons. Not something that is new, it has been happening since the beginning. Any quick scan of history that is >20 years illustrates that point and well as shows what this kind of thing leads to.
Getting Warm says:
November 30, 2011 at 10:17 am
Are you denying that the Arctic is experiencing melting that normally happens on geological timescales in just a few decades?
Are you denying that the Arctic is is experiencing some of the most extreme warming, as predicted by IPCC?
=================================
Well, I would be satisfied by only echoing Curiousgeorge, it is a meaningless talking point the alarmists have. But, I would point out, melt probably isn’t the proper term. You have no idea the normal ebb and flow of arctic ice volume, and neither does anyone else. And, if you click on the links and actually look at the numbers, the arctic hasn’t decrease in going on 5 years now.
Is it possible you guys find something else to wet yourself over? This one is getting a bit tedious. It turns out the poley bears don’t care about the ice extent…. but, given that they are genetically Grizzley bears, a child could have figured that one out. It also turns out the decrease in the arctic ice showed that the albedo effect to be completely overblown and likely to have been erroneous. So, please, find something else that we could marginally care about. It makes the discussion a bit more interesting.
David Suzuki lives in British Columbia – now get this. This is the same province that dumps 125 MILLION liters of RAW SEWAGE into the Pacific ocean a day from Victoria, BC. The same province with the most boil water advisories in North America. The same province that’s killing its KILLER WHALES with lumber and other chemical runoff from industry. The same province that destroyed its salmon population. The same province that damned its rivers thereby depriving its salmon of its spawning grounds. The same province that has CLEAR CUT 1/3 of its provincial timber in sensitive areas. And the same province that showed up at Ottawa’s door begging the Federal government to bail them out of their massive provincial financial debt.
You can’t make this stuff up!
Is David Suzuki even a Christian?
“find gifts you can buy Santa to help him set up a temporary Workshop and protect the North Pole for his return”
How does this NOT rise to the level of fraud?
The quid pro quo is there, the solicitation (“buy”) is there, and the recipient is clearly a fictional character.
So, Suzuki believes in TWO imaginary things: Santa and global warming.
Next up, the Easter Bunny (hey kids, the bunny won’t be bringing chocolate in 4 to 10 years because the warming climate will make it too expensive) and Tooth Fairy (Sorry little ones, the warming climate will prevent your teeth from falling out—so ask Mum and Dad to have the capitalist Tooth Fairy send the money to me).
Ha ha, joke’s on David; no presents for him. Belief in Santa is fantasy. So is CAGW.
This is one of the most but not by all means the saddest attempt the polar bear suited moron in the sea is pretty high up oh and the [soon to be on fire and drowning ] Maldives farce !
But by the by I’m sorry but what has Santa ever done for me, now the Romans I can see what they did but all this guy does is sit around all year and take the credit for all the bloody expensive present I have to buy !
sod him !
Just let the kids watch this:
Frozen Planet trailer
Since we all know that Santa does in fact exist and does in fact live in the North Pole and since global warming does in fact happen and since it does in fact happen because of humans – well, it follows that one should make money out of these facts.
Just after the first climategate release by the whistle-blower David Suzuki ranted epic soothsaying the impending Co2 Climate Doomsday Rapture and that if we don’t do anything it’s the, well, end of the world as we know it.
It’s well worth a watch just to see how fervent the opposition to hard evidence based science really is.
Growing up in Canada I admired Suzuki for his Nature of Things show. Now as a scientist all I can do is shake my head and lament the loss of an otherwise brilliant mind to the pernicious mental virus of Co2 Climate Doomsday Rapture gospel.
Sigh. Santa’s home is melting. Considering that Santa is mythological it’s appropriate that the AGW mythology be mixed together to make a jolly ho ho ho.
http://pathstoknowledge.net/2009/12/17/david-suzuki-rants-epic-on-global-warming-and-copenhagen
ps. Santa’s postal code is H0H 0H0 aka H0 H0 H0. [;)]. So write Santa asking for no more carbon taxes in British Columbia, Canada. Please.
All you people saying that Santa does not exist – you’re obviously out of your minds or childless.
Earlier in another post I politely requested that foia release the password. Someone responded with this:
Abracadabradantesque
Now I cannot find the zip file to see if this works or if my chain was being pulled? If anyone could give it a shot and let me know I would appreciate it…..
REPLY: See the top post on WUWT, then click on the Continue reading line, link at the bottom. But that’s not the password. tried it. – Anthony
@getting warm
What I would deny is that you have any remotely compelling evidence to support your assertions. Moreover, the uncovering of agricultural artefacts and organic material underneath seasonally retreating land-ice tells us something. Ten points if you can guess what that is. Pictures of wartime submarines surfacing at the North pole somewhat undermine your boilerplate claim as regards sea ice too. It cannot at this point be proven that there is anything remotely unprecendented or severe in the reduction of the summer sea ice minimum, even in recent history. Nor can the strangely geographically selective properties of CO2 as pushed by alarmists be explained, especially as regards the differences between the poles. Please don’t insult my intelligence by firing off more model-driven paleoclimate ‘studies’- they are not worth the straws they clutch (as amply demonstrated in the recently exposed internal conversations between climate diviners).
Getting Warm says:
November 30, 2011 at 10:17 am
Are you denying that the Arctic is experiencing melting that normally happens on geological timescales in just a few decades?
Are you denying that the Arctic is is experiencing some of the most extreme warming, as predicted by IPCC?
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/ ”
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
C’mon ….you surly aren’t dumb enough to think David Suzuki Foundation – IPCC – or even Santa can change…………… climate?
You do believe there is a SANTA – don’t you?
Santa has hundreds of years of verifiable evidence –
David Suzuki Foundation ????-
IPCC ????
Getting Warm says:
November 30, 2011 at 10:17 am
“Are you denying that the Arctic is experiencing melting that normally happens on geological timescales in just a few decades?”
Every melt season (that’s less than six months) the Arctic loses millions of square miles of extent; that is not a geological time scale; and regains it shortly thereafter. And the minimum extent also varie significantly from year to year; so the Arctic is exactly NOT stable on decadal timescales. Hint: the “geo” in “geology” is Greek for “earth”, not for ice.
Well if the Old Pultney rowing crew can move the magnetic North pole, perhaps Suzuki just moved the geographical North pole to somewhere off Hawaii and that’s why he can’t see any ice.
@ Getting Warmer:
Here’s a comment I wrote for a thread on Forbes about Arctic ice, but which didn’t get posted, probably due to having too many links or being too long. Its main point is that atmospheric temperature changes are unlikely to be the main drivers of the recent decline in ice extent. There are other likely drivers–and the warmist alarmist-propagandists know about them, but choose not to mention them.
==============
Regardless of the precise extent of ice-volume reduction, there are two reasons it doesn’t necessarily indicate an alarming degree of unnatural global warming—or even any at all. First, it may be the result of natural variations in the wind. Here’s a WUWT thread about that, followed by a WUWT comment that gives links supporting that interpretation:
—–
Second, the decrease may be due to natural variation in ocean currents, as this WUWT-comment contends:
There are additional comments and links arguing for other variations in current that could be responsible for the changes seen in the Arctic, but these two should be sufficient to discredit any implicit contention that the decrease in ice-volume speaks for itself and that anyone who refuses to see it is a denier.
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James Sexton and Neil Jones,
First you say that there is only 30 years of data and that isn’t enough.
Then you say that there has been no real melting in five years and that proves the melting is bunk.
If you look at that graph you will see a dark band. That is two standard deviations – a huge difference from the recent record.
Down below it shows how 2011 is tied with the record for greatest melt.
Like saying that the planet has been cooling recently when 9 of the last 10 years are among the hottest.
Do you know that facts are different from opinions?
My wife continues to donate money to the Suzuki foundation and the WWF. She is a climate skeptic and I advise her that there are a gazillion worthy non-profits out there who could make better use of her gifts, but she still does this. It causes me much bewilderment.
REPLY: Step up man, discuss with her and convince her to put an end to it. You have the means. – Anthony
Ah, the stresses that too many people put on this planet!!! Suzuki and his five kids never tire of discussing the topic.
At Climate Audit, check out McKitrick’s piece on Schneider where Suzuki’s name comes up:
“….I was responding to a claim David Suzuki had made on TVOntario a few nights earlier, saying that when he grew up in London Ontario, winter used to set in by the end of October, but now the snow didn’t come until much later; this being evidence of the fearful progress of global warming (or words to that effect). So I looked up the weather records for London from the 1940s to the present to check. Since the Canadian data on the GISS archive only went up to 1990, I also looked up the Erie PA record, which was the nearest US city (just across Lake Erie from London) with a long temperature record for October and November continuing up to the (then) present. The slight cooling trend in those records contradicted Suzuki’s claim..
Getting Warm says:
November 30, 2011 at 10:17 am
Are you denying that the Arctic is experiencing melting that normally happens on geological timescales in just a few decades?
Are you denying that the Arctic is is experiencing some of the most extreme warming, as predicted by IPCC?
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
Dave Says: Are you denying this same melting (on geological timescales in a few decades) happened in 1880-1890, in 1930-1940. Because of our lack of good, reliable measuring sophistication and devices (back then) there is NOT one expert that can say if what is occurring now is more or less severe than the accounts we have of then? Have you read the maritime reports recorded in HMS ship captain letters from the 1880’s, they thought the NWEST passage was free in clear for years to come. Have you seen 1930’s surfaced submarines at the magnetic north pole, no ice in sight? Can’t repeat that now. What was the driver then? If I say the North Pole melted in 1600 something for a decade, can you refute that? You can’t make up science to prove your position the way you would like sir – the justification doesn’t exist.
” TheGoodLocust says: November 30, 2011 at 10:39 am
I guess this would be a good opportunity to tell kids that Santa doesn’t exist – and that adults lie to them all the time to get them to behave like they want. Seems like a life lesson. ”
You are evil incarnate in a very funny way! I like that in a person.
Getting Warm says: “Are you denying that the Arctic is is experiencing some of the most extreme warming, as predicted by IPCC?”
IPCC? LOL
Surely, you jest!
I would [self-snip] the bejesus out of him. Sicko.
[snip way off topic]
This could very well be a Freudian slip on David’s part (Santa make believe/CAGW make believe).
Anyway, some people say Santa spends the summer in Florida and he already accounts for ice melting and shifting. http://www.santaflorida.com/ask_santa.html#Q1
@ Getting Warm says:
November 30, 2011 at 10:17 am
Even if everything you say is true. Even if said present giver is a real person. Even if a gift of $5 will make a real difference…
Do you honestly believe it is ok for this foundation to solicit money from children by playing to their fears?
No science answer required. No political answer required. No citations of “peer reviewed” papers. No Internet links.
Just your answer. Please.
What an asinine thing to do to kids..begin the indoctrination early
Now I will need to do damage control on my kids… good thing there is WUWT and the sea ice reference page.
It is more alarming to me that the CBC continues to promote David S as credible scientist.
Thanks to Anthony this extremely important news at this time of the year is cause for concern. And I’ve had more time to think this through – I was counting on Santa this year to bring me the goods – NOW I don’t even know where to write Santa! Help!
BTW, Anthony, Minister Peter Kent of Canada – stated a short while ago in Durban Canada will NOT pay one red cent of GUILT MONEY. Yee-Haw! God, I’m loving my conservative government here in Canada!
I’m not bothering to go to the website, so maybe it’s there, but I do note one word that’s completely missing in the screen cap and message text.
Christmas.
Getting Warm, you forgot to mention that those “natural bursts” of CO2 were magically able to change temperature before they happened.
Of course not, the geologic timescale shows it might even become ice free in maybe another few hundred years like is has been BEFORE. But I doubt it given that the last 4 years saw more ice at minimum than 2007 so I’ll wish on you the task of sticking around to confirm what happens.
Take another look at the chart.
What part of the following is it that you deny?
About The David Suzuki Foundation funding:
http://fairquestions.typepad.com/rethink_campaigns/david-suzuki-foundation-70-million.html
Paid by US interests to damage his own country’s industries…
About David Suzuki addressing students with taxpayer’s money from the National Film Board:
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/11/02/suzuki-franchise-expanding-at-taxpayers-expense
When you cannot convince parents, go behind their back and target their kids, unopposed…
Mr Suzuki is a deceiver of children and his pernicious fraudulent notions have caused a great deal of harm in the innocent minds he has misled. It has profited him greatly
I have a notion that justice might prevail and he will in time get the warming he seeks in that other place.
Ed, sorry about being off topic but felt it worth a shot…. In the meantime, Mr. Suzuki and his cohorts seem to be treading on mighty thin ice…..
Jail politicians who ignore climate science: Suzuki
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=290513
Day by day it becomes clearer who should be going where….and yes, hell indeed is a much warmer place.
Hopefully the Police will investigate, I am not sure of the legality of seeking out donations from minors.
Judging by the photo, I would be concerned for my child’s safety,
Is there a place you can report websites that appear suspicious enough that they might be run by pedophiles?
I have a theory that he’s still bitter (and rightfully so, many would contend) about being interned as a child along with his family for the crime of being of Japanese descent in World War II.
Perhaps this is how his revenge plays out. It’s as plausible a notion as any other, given that the guy’s being telling me the world’s going to hell for decades now.
Irrespective of that, pitching to little kids to get their parents to send cheques is televangelist-grade chicanery. Shame on you, Dr. Suzuki.
“Act now to help Santa!”
snif…Well, at least that explains the tragedy of why the adult children Suzuki hopes to get to respond with money haven’t been receiving their presents from “Santa” for quite some time now. Not even coal! No wonder Little Princess Getting Warm and her Tribe are so upset.
Curiousgeorge says:
November 30, 2011 at 10:41 am
Getting Warm says:
November 30, 2011 at 10:17 am
Are you denying that the Arctic is experiencing melting that normally happens on geological timescales in just a few decades?
Are you denying that the Arctic is is experiencing some of the most extreme warming, as predicted by IPCC?
===================================================================
Nope. I just don’t give a rats ass.
====================================================================
And, there is NOTHING that we could do about it !!!
What Neil was referring to (as if you didn’t know) was that we’ve only had accurate year-over-year observations since 1979.
As you, yourself, have pointed out Arctic sea ice coverage has existed on epochal time scales. To try to draw any conclusions from such a short period of observation would be premature.
I am glad you realize that the Arctic has been ice free before and entirely due to natural causes. It is also hopeful that you realize that the Earth itself is a massive source of CO2.
Too bad you haven’t picked up on the fact the rise in CO2 follows the rise in temperature, not the reverse.
Yes, I am. Are YOU denying that the Arctic was warmer in the 1920’s or during the Viking exploration period than it is now? Are you denying that the Arctic was warmer for most of the Holocene than it is now? If so, then YOU are the denier, not I. The problem is that the current records go back so few years that to call today’s Arctic temperatures “extreme” is arrogance beyond belief. The Arctic was likely completely ice-free in summer for thousands of years earlier in this interglacial period. I would venture to say that the extent that we have summer ice now in the Arctic is likely new in the past 2000 years or so. Prior to that time, going back to about 8000 years or so, the Arctic was likely completely ice-free in summer. That was also a time when sea levels were some six feet higher than they are today.
Who is the denier here?
I think Santa is safe at the North Pole unless some Evil Genius Denier Scientist hiding in a volcano laboratory has one of those orbiting microwave thingys pointed at him.
Getting Warm has successfully hijacked this thread, by merely reciting the meme, and making up ‘facts’ to reinforce his blather. This thread is about an emotional fraud being committed by someone whose credibility in the real world has deteriorated to zero. Getting Warm has used this as a springboard, basically condoning the fraud at the same time. If thin ice is involved in any way here, it is the fact that Getting Warm is walking on it. Really, Sir, don’t invite the Ad Hominem, because it is being considered.
Getting Warm says:
“Like saying that the planet has been cooling recently when 9 of the last 10 years are among the hottest.”
Oh, really?
GettingWarm :
In your first post you write:
“Are you denying that the Arctic is experiencing melting that normally happens on geological timescales in just a few decades?”
Neil Jones replied to you: “Quiet simply we don’t know, we only have just over 30 years of accurate records. That’s no time at all in climate science.”
In answer to NJ’s response, you then write:
“Arctic sea ice became a feature of the Arctic by 47 Mya, following a pronounced
decline in atmospheric pCO2 after the Paleocene–Eocene Thermal Optimum, and consistently covered at least part of the Arctic Ocean for no less than the last 13–14 million years. Ice was apparently most widespread during the last 2–3 million years, in accordance with Earth’s overall cooler climate.”
You seem to be in confusion here. NJ was responding to your assertion that the arctic is currently experiencing melting that normally happens on geological timescales. According to records made available on Cryosphere today, minimum summer ice cover has decreased from about 5.5m sq. km in 1979 to 3 m sq. km in 2008. Accurate satellite records only go back to 1979, so we cannot make the assertion that this rate of decline is greater than anything in historical records, much less on geological timescales – the data just doesn’t allow that conclusion.
Your above reference to ice cover dating back to 47 Mya is irrelevant at best, or a deliberate attempt to mislead at worst. All we know is that ice has existed in varying extents since 47 Mya. There is no data that exists – or could ever exist – that records ice extents on the scale of decades. It is utterly ridiculous for anyone to claim that the ice cover existed throughout millions of years at an absolutely constant and unvarying extent. It is possible – indeed likely – that ice varied in extent from decade to decade and century by century, sometimes expanding, sometimes shrinking, affected by a myriad of climatic variables we are only just beginning to understand.
If you have citations to peer reviewed literature that asserts that ice extent never varied at all on decadal scales over millions of years, please post them.
GettingWarm, twice as strong warming as the modern one occurred in Arctic in early 20th century.
http://oi56.tinypic.com/vfv70g.jpg
What more, Arctic is just as “warm” as in 1940s.
What are you babbling about?
Why not just buy Santa a snorkel? After all, politicians in the Maldives have used them.
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=maldives+underwater+cabinet+meeting&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&tbm=isch&tbnid=EXo-iKkssvc1KM:&imgrefurl=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/6426091/Maldives-underwater-cabinet-meeting-was-a-sorry-stunt.html&docid=7yv7zSUPuaSJTM&imgurl=http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01509/bookerundersea_1509075c.jpg&w=460&h=288&ei=8ZDWTrXrHcGa8QPex_iRAg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=555&vpy=164&dur=1005&hovh=178&hovw=284&tx=158&ty=118&sig=103399365603668714016&page=1&tbnh=151&tbnw=214&start=0&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0&biw=1076&bih=680
Well he got you all talking about it. Remember, publicity is the all, the highest goal. Preaching to the choir just delivers it. Simply learn from them just respond with a dismissive equally outrageous retort.
If your asserting such variation is unprecedented, I’ll certainly deny it! The LIA increased all ice extent. Normalization followed. GK
Ha-ha! Look at that pic! Suzuki is slipping Hockey Sticks into Santa’s sleigh. All the kiddies are getting Mannian Hockey Sticks so they know why they must be good eco-mentalists like David Suzuki!
But no coal for the bad kiddies, none at all! Coal is evil, just ask the government-funded part-time activist James Hansen. So Santa shouldn’t be handing out any coal.
But Santa has been handing out coal for ages. Therefore Santa himself is to blame for the climate change that’s destroying his home and workshop. So sod off, Santa! You’re only getting what you deserve. No help from me!
Getting Warm says:
November 30, 2011 at 10:17 am
Welcome to WUWT 🙂
What you will find here: Unlike the BBC or green boards, you will need to support your claims.
The whole universe was created out of nothing! If thats not magic I don’t know what is. Of course Santa exists, but he is a time traveller and goes back to before humans were around, when the earth was in the grips of an ice age. That is why we cant find him at the North Pole now.
If anyone has any lingering doubts that David Suzuki is a shameless propagandist after reading this, they are no better than he is. This is one of the most disgusting brainwashing efforts I’ve seen in a long time.
Is there no depth to which these people will not sink? Now they are attempting to indoctrinate children as young as five to give their pocket money away? These people are pure scum.
Santa can move to the South Pole and enslave the penguins instead of dears and poor Rudolph. Good riddance!
@RH: It is more alarming to me that the CBC continues to promote David S as credible scientist.
————————-
You’re assuming the CBC is a credible broadcaster.
Having lost the argument with the present adult generation they are working on children. Children, the responsibility of the parents and not climate scientists.
He entered dastardly territory by attempting to lower the expectations of children at Christmas time and lying to children about a problem that does not exist. And he cannot bring himself to use the word Christmas leaving the kids to wonder what holiday he talking about. In all fairness he has done no worse than the public school system that seems to want to eliminate Christmas entirely from the minds of children.
The good news is he at least admits to children there is a Santa Clause and that he is a Bavarian.
I have to say this one sounds like it belongs in the “Mountains out of Molehills” category.
Is it in poor taste? Yeah, I’d agree with that. But a travesty? You do understand you risk sounding like some of the over top followers of Real Climate when you go off on something like this, don’t you?
Suzuki has become a truly pathetic excuse for an environmentalist. a real scumbag, plumbing new depths of [snip] and has reduced global warming fear mongering to new levels of desperation, deception and lies.
My father in law is a retired physicist who worked in the same building as a young David Suzuki nearly 50 years ago. My father in law is very diplomatic so when he said Suzuki’s coworkers found Suzuki’s work ‘odd’ , he actually meant it was poor. By nature scientists are basically introverted so whenever the CBC came around looking for an answer to a science question it was a young Suzuki who jumped at the chance to be in front of the camera and the others were happy he did . When the original host of ‘Quirks and Quarks’ left, the CBC looked around for a new host and decided the young fellow at the federal science building would be a good fit. The rest is history.
He wasn’t much of a scientist back then and he’s not much of a scientist now. If David Suzuki is really a scientist , the Capt. Highliner is a real captain and North Korea is a Democratic Republic.
Getting Warm says:
November 30, 2011 at 11:36 am
James Sexton and Neil Jones,
First you say that there is only 30 years of data and that isn’t enough.
Then you say that there has been no real melting in five years and that proves the melting is bunk.
If you look at that graph you will see a dark band. That is two standard deviations – a huge difference from the recent record.
Down below it shows how 2011 is tied with the record for greatest melt.
Like saying that the planet has been cooling recently when 9 of the last 10 years are among the hottest.
Do you know that facts are different from opinions?
========================================================
Yes, but now I’m wondering if you do. Let me repeat myself for clarity.
This ice hasn’t diminished since 2007. This isn’t an opinion, this is fact. The fact that it did significantly diminish for a couple of decades prior put to rest one of the biggest lies told by the alarmist crowd…….. Specifically that the ice loss would cause a death spiral and we were on the brink of a tipping point. We’ve had, using the 79-2000 average, nearly a 50% reduction in ice extent during the minimum and yet, this has been the earth’s temp response……http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut3vgl/from:2001/plot/hadcrut3vgl/from:2001/trend
Only in the mind of an alarmist could a general decline in temps for over a decade, be seen as an increase in temps. And, while some interpretations of the temps are subjective, the data as a whole is generally accepted as factual observations. And only in the mind of an alarmist could have the same quantity of a prior year mean that we’re losing ice. When x=y then, y is not less than x. It’s really not that complicated. Conversely, (relating to global temps) When t₁ is greater than t₂ then we can say t₂ is cooler than t₁
I didn’t say anything proved anything as bunk, but you should read some of the other comments to try and understand what I meant when I stated “melt” wasn’t the proper word. Ice loss can occur in a number of ways. Melting, being only one of them. Do try and keep up.
Kindest regards,
James
Getting Warm says:
November 30, 2011 at 10:17 am
says:
“Are you denying that the Arctic is is experiencing some of the most extreme warming, as predicted by IPCC?”
No exceptional Arctic temperatures shown here.
http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php
We don’t deny the alleged “extreme warming”, we are just skeptical of the assertion. And as the continuing revelations of climate science chicanery multiply, we become more skeptical.
http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php
“Last time the Arctic was ice free was maybe 125,000 years ago during a natural burst of CO2.”
You might want to read this before making dubious claims.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/10/30/new-peer-reviewed-paper-says-there-appear-to-have-been-periods-of-ice-free-summers-in-the-central-arctic-ocean/
The “natural burst of CO2” attribution is wildly speculative and shows your bias.
Somebody has to get Suzuki on some meds. He needs help!
I’m all for the elimination of Santa. Billions of dollars flows to external coffers (China) every Christmas. Mostly for junk put away in storage bins. This extravagance used to fuel our economy. Now it only increases our debt. Explaining to our children that we have been lying to them destroys a sacred trust. Burn the pagan Santa, for everyone’s benefit. GK
Getting Warm says:
Are you denying that the Arctic is experiencing melting that normally happens on geological timescales in just a few decades?
Are you denying that the Arctic is is experiencing some of the most extreme warming, as predicted by IPCC?
There is no solid empirical evidence supporting the theory that human-induced CO2 is warming the planet — a least, not to any measureable degree and certainly not in any harmful way. The incessant alarmism about CO2-inflicted runaway global warming is the product of cleverly contrived computer models (and the hyperactive imagination of those who create them), not on any hard observational evidence.
The warming scare is largely the invention of climate researchers who have decided to substitute computer modeling for real-world scientific research. Their approach to science (I use the term loosely) is all backwards: they begin with a pre-ordained conclusion — that man is warming the earth — and then set out to prove their conclusion through sundry contortions and manipulations of climate models. They aim only at confirmation, not falsification.
As combusion research scientist Dr. Martin Hertzberg observes: “In comparison to water in all of its forms, the effect of the carbon dioxide increase over the last century on the temperature of the earth is about as significant as a few farts in a hurricane!”
I could always send Suzuki a wad of counterfit bills and hope he gets arrested when attempting depositing them. If asked where he got them and he says to keep Santa from drowning at the North Pole, they might also commit him to a psychiatric ward for good.
Now, where’s my printing press?
(Purveyors of fiction really shouldn’t rely on other symbols of fiction as most people will see the obvious similarities.)
If one looks at the AMSU-A temperatures for channel 6, that is atmospheric temperatures at 25,000 feet, one will notice that 2011 has so far been overall one of the coldest years since records have been kept starting in 2002. 2008 looks like it was probably the coldest of them all. Now, please, explain to me where all that heat on the surface is coming from if it is supposed to be coming from atmospheric heating re-radiating heat to the surface.
I am going to keep hammering that point because that is absolutely the central point in AGW. Without atmospheric heating you can absolutely not have AGW and we apparently have no atmospheric heating so we apparently have no AGW. This one point completely invalidates AGW as the source of warming all by itself without the need for any additional “fudge”. I realize this might be quite “vexing” to climate “scientists” and I don’t mean to besmirch WUWT by saying so here, but in a nutshell, it is as simple as that.
Please explain where this heat comes from. It is NOT coming from a heated up atmosphere.
As for the whole aerosol hypothesis, we would need data on atmospheric clarity. Anyone know a place where that sort of data is available and updated in near real time (say daily or weekly or even monthly)? And you have to sort out impacts caused by human produced sulfates from those by other causes (volcanic activity, increased thin clouds, etc.). That should give them a few research grants right there.
But in the meantime, they can’t go around claiming one of the hottest years of all time while at the same time we have one of the coolest atmospheres of all time and claim it is from AGW. That simply does not work.
You can not increase surface temperatures without increasing surface radiation. That is simply physics and there is nothing that can be done about it. That increased surface radiation, if the impact of CO2 is what they say it is, must cause a warming of the atmosphere as the radiation warms CO2 molecules. Some of that radiation is re-radiated downward and is reflected in increased ground temperatures. We see no increase in atmospheric temperature and so no increase in radiation back to the ground. If there is no increase in re-radiated longwave IR, then what is the source of the heating? My guess …. two things. 1: an aggregation of local microclimate changes, 2. the adjustments applied to the raw data, 3. we are a little closer to hell then we were several years ago.
Suzuki should not even be allowed to live in this Country let alone be allowed to continue his hateful Green Agenda aimed at everyone, specailly the kids. He was “created” by our funded CBC which should also be abolished for being a tool of the Scum who are promoting these Green LIES! Maybe Maurice Strong over in China should open a a centre for retired LIZARDS like this guy!
David Suzuki is a glorified fruit fly observer……..nothing more!!!
Canadians here might consider firing off a complaint to the Advertizing Standards Council.
http://www.adstandards.com/en/
Since David Suzicki is fighting to raise money for the relocation of the ever magical Santa Claus, can I recommend the Land of Misfit Climate Models? There seems to be a of of room there for everyone. Even if there wasn’t, they could just fudge the numbers to make up some more room….
Also, who are the two elves in the background holding the toolbox? Anyone particular? Does someone here have good photoshopping skills that could come up with a retort to this scene, with all of the known AGW statements proven to be false, Al Gore’s Polar Bear on the ice, the Hurricane clouds in the wrong direction for An Inconvenient truth, etc, etc…. The elves could be Michael Mann, et.al.
Crosspatch, great post. Keep us on our toes at the end there! LOL!!
Reminds me of the joke that there are 3 types of people in the world; those that are good at math and those that aren’t.
Getting Warm, please explain the attached photo
Skate (SSN-578), at the North Pole, 1962.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/0858411.jpg
Further to Getting Warm
I have just stumbled across this which is germane to your “arguments” http://www.c3headlines.com/2011/11/new-eu-research-confirms-roman-warming-period-in-arctic-regions-warmer-than-modern.htm
Not only introverted but truly absorbed in their daily work of actually doing science. Those not so interested in doing actual science find themselves looking for other things to do. It’s certainly true of Suzuki whose other thing is running his mouth but I suspect also true for some of those who actually desire being administrators of scientific groups and find that the politics of running such organizations is more appealing to them than performing within the science field that the organization represents.
To everyone who is a member of a scientific group – be careful who you vote for. Those who most desire to represent you may in fact share the least in common with your level of scientific expertise; they may really be frustrated politicians at heart not scientists.
It’s almost as though you should elect the person who is LEAST interested in leading a science or other such technical group, the one who claims he/she is not interested, hates speaking before large groups, doesn’t have enough time for it, etc. In a perfect world…
“Getting Warm” David, is that you?
I forget, does Santa live a the geographic north pole (rotational axis) or the magnetic north pole?
Is the rotational axis on land or water?
The magnetic pole moves, so if Santa lives at the magnetic pole, he already has ample capability to move his entire operation every few years, so melting ice wouldn’t be much of an issue for him.
😉
😛
Dear Fans of getting warm,
Thank you for the army of straw men that you have thrown at me.
You forgot one of my favorite — Why do they call Greenland green!
Arctic melting only speeds up warming and methane release.
Greenland (which I believe to by the true home of Santa) is melting at an accelerating rate.
There are 31 references for this at the bottom of this page —
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_ice_sheet
Stay dry.Recent conservative estimates are that Greenland melt will cause a half a meter rise by the end of the century.
Darn keyboard gremlins. should be wouldn’t in the above post.
[Moderator’s note: Fixed. But a pause for re-reading and reflection before clicking on oist would be helpful. -REP]
Sometime about 20 years ago David Suzuki went into one of his tirades on CBC that went on and on about the fact that schools were teaching young children to type so that when the grew up they would find it easier to use a computer. “WHAT STUPIDITY .. blah blah blah… BY THE TIME THOSE KIDS GROW UP THEY WON’T BE USING QWERTY KEYBOARD YOU STUPID FOOLS …blah blah blah. “THEY WILL BE USING VOICE RECOGNITION blah blah blah.
Well David??? You were wrong.
Then, a couple of years ago, he went on another tirade on CBC when asked about the possibility that the sun may affect climate. “WHAT ARE TALKING ABOUT? THE SUN YOU SAY.” …blah blah blah. HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND? PEOPLE THAT SAY THOSE THING SHOULD BE CHARGED WITH CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY blah blah blah…
David is a bitter old man whose is a disgrace to Canadians. IMHO.
The north pole. It’s all downhill from there, ….. 8^)
Good grief….
Is their anyone that doesn’t have their hand out……
….to save the world of course
I demur. This art work is sheer brilliance. So is a lot of the product design and contrivance. A greater masterstroke than the “Pillars of Climate” installation. Who says artists have lost all sense of irony? Very subversive, love it!
Getting Warm:
how is a photo of the N Pole ice free in 1962 a straw man argument ?
we have a popular myth that glorifies an omniscient distributor of causeless wealth with which parents indoctrinate their children to prepare them to accept equally absurd notions later in life…
we have a popular parasite who solicits donations for his work soliciting donations who has appealed to the myth in a logically absurd way
my schadenfreude meter goes over-range. santa is the liberal jesus. he gets credit for what everyone else paid for. nasa charts his course for the public weather stations every year.
lesson 1: teach your children that mysticism and altruism are virtues; reap the logical outcome.
Does Santa really live at the North Pole? Northern hemisphere Reindeer bucks don’t have any horns at Christmas time, so presumably Santa really lives on South Georgia which is the only place in the World where reindeer do have horns at Christmas.
everyone above a young age knows there is no Santa so who cares about where the non-existent Santa doesn’t live?
[Moderator’s note: Fixed. But a pause for re-reading and reflection before clicking on oist would be helpful. -REP]
You are correct. I thank you for the repair to my post as well. Slip o’ the digit can change the meaning of a post dramatically.
[REPLY: and very diplomatic of you to not note that “oist” is not something available to click on. I was wondering if anyone would notice. Humor is a dying genre. -REP]
Well that image isn’t realistic — no land snow. Here’s a better view:
http://www.natice.noaa.gov/pub/ims/ims_gif/DATA/cursnow_asiaeurope.gif
You all have got this very wrong.
Santa has never lived in the North Pole. And Santa is a fairly bad nick name for Father Christmas. The real Father Christmas has always lived and still lives in the mountains of Korvatunturi, Finland. Do not believe the Swedes either, their funny man is not the real Father Christmas.
Suzuki? Hell no. I ride 2011 Ducati Diavel motorcycle. I hope Father Christmas will bring me a tool set for my bike workshop. I have been a good boy. Honest.
@ Getting Warm:
Are you denying…
And that’s the point where I stop reading any more from arrogant toss pots like you. Your opening words betray such a controlling and fragile ego that to consider for a split second that there might be alternative explanations is beyond your capacity. Have you ever been humble enough to simply accept that you DON’T KNOW? That your climate gods don’t know either? Nah, I didn’t think so.
Tip: next time, why not try opening with “Do you disagree with the theory/hypothesis/assertion/findings that…” or something similar. Then an intelligent, polite discussion might commence.
Suzuki needs money! It’s good environmentalists vs. the evil Big Oil companies.
And lots of money is required to keep up the fight. (Reminds me some tele-evangelists.)
David Suzuki: The twisted logic, and ethics, of nature’s opponents
http://www.straight.com/article-551661/vancouver/david-suzuki-twisted-logic-and-ethics-natures-opponents!
@Getting Warm
I might be a fan if your posts were a bit more interesting. Which of the points raised by commenters here did you regard as straw men? Have you actually read any of them? Can you bear to? Can you respond to any refutation of your recycled arguments with more than a ‘Gish gallop’ and a link to some wiki page which no doubt consists of the same set of weak assertions you have made trotted out by several other alarmists in unison (which doesn’t make them any more logically valid)? I will check it by the way, but tend to feel if you are unwilling to tackle an argument head on then you probably can’t. Just because you would like commenters here to have raised straw man arguments does not mean they have. Now come on, put more effort in, rid me of my pestilent doubts 😉
Wil says:
November 30, 2011 at 11:03 am
David Suzuki lives in British Columbia – now get this. This is the same province that dumps 125 MILLION liters of RAW SEWAGE into the Pacific ocean a day from Victoria, BC. The same province with the most boil water advisories in North America. The same province that’s killing its KILLER WHALES with lumber and other chemical runoff from industry. The same province that destroyed its salmon population. The same province that damned its rivers thereby depriving its salmon of its spawning grounds. The same province that has CLEAR CUT 1/3 of its provincial timber in sensitive areas. And the same province that showed up at Ottawa’s door begging the Federal government to bail them out of their massive provincial financial debt.
You can’t make this stuff up!
_______________________
Wil,
This reads like a Suzuki script. Long on emotional sound bites, and short on fact, context, proportion and perspective.
We’re not happy with him either, but, ” The same province that’s killing its KILLER WHALES with lumber….” Really?
Chris
Getting Warm says:
November 30, 2011 at 2:39 pm
Dear Fans of getting warm,
Thank you for the army of straw men that you have thrown at me.
You forgot one of my favorite — Why do they call Greenland green!
Arctic melting only speeds up warming and methane release.
================================================================
Dear Getting Warm,
You alarmists never cease to put me in awe of your rationale. I’ve shown you where the earth hasn’t got warming in over a decade. But, you insist that it is still warming. I’ve also acknowledged that when comparing minimums, we’ve had almost a 50% reduction in the ice. (Again, it isn’t melt…. please try to understand the dynamics of what is happening up there.) But, you say “Arctic melting only speeds up warming and methane release…..”
When I look at the temp records and the recent reduction of ice. You’ve posited something that is demonstrably untrue. Even if you hold that the earth is still warming, you can’t possibly believe the warming is accelerating. Are you that detached from reality that you would believe references at the bottom of a Wiki page over your own lying eyes? Do you now believe Hadley, RSS, and GISS are all conspiring to show cooling? (For those that haven’t look lately….. http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/gistemp/from:2002/plot/gistemp/from:2002/trend ) GISS will have a negative decadal trend after the New Year if La Nina continues and Hansen’s algorithm doesn’t kick into overdrive.
Happy New Year!
@RockyRoad 1:27 p.m.
“Purveyors of fiction really shouldn’t rely on other symbols of fiction as most people will see the obvious similarities.”
So true!
If there is such a thing as beyond inexcusable, I think I’ve just seen it. Kids are exposed to enough media garbage without having this brand of story-telling aimed at them.
klem says:
November 30, 2011 at 11:38 am
My wife continues to donate money to the Suzuki foundation and the WWF. She is a climate skeptic and I advise her that there are a gazillion worthy non-profits out there who could make better use of her gifts, but she still does this. It causes me much bewilderment.
How can she donate when she is barefoot in the kitchen? I am confused.
Just kidding.
Roger Knights says:
November 30, 2011 at 11:30 am
I was very pleasantly surprised to see someone dredging up one of my old comments to feature so prominently in their argument and I thank you in all sincerity for doing so. Over the years I’ve always assumed that the primary function of my comments here and elsewhere was to allow me to vent the metaphorical steam that arises between my ears whenever I’m exposed to concentrated doses of climate blather and that in general they would be largely ignored. It’s nice to be able to think that this is not always the case. I feel I should point out that the value of my comments must rise or fall based solely on the quality of the logic and argumentation included as I am not now nor have I ever been a practicing “scientist”. No resort to argument from authority is in order when quoting my words, but I like to think that they stand on their own merits. That R&W paper is a personal favorite and I have commented on it a number of times. The one you chose is probably the best of the bunch. I have often hoped that Anthony would someday be able to cajole Dr. Rigor into doing a guest post here. Although I suspect what he would offer wouldn’t be entirely supportive of my admittedly very personal interpretation of his work, he has operated for years at a school which is pretty much “The Belly of the Beast” for consensus climate science in regard to the Arctic and has seemingly been able to retain much more than a semblance of an open mind. Although the end result might be my amateurish contributions spirally down in flames, I think it would be terrific to see an overview of the Arctic from his perspective in this kind of venue.
Anthony, are you listening? I’m more than willing to take my chances.
David UK, James Sexton,
Do I believe you or 100’s of respected scientists who have devoted their lives to studying the North and publicly publishing their science? Let me see???
Since I have been accused of being boring here is everyone’s favorite U of Fairbanks researcher, Katey Walters. It is illuminating:
Canadians are quite familiar with Dr. Suzuki. He used to have a column in our local daily paper and throughout the 1980’s (unfortunately I didn’t save any of the articles) he predicted, that on our present course, the earth would be uninhabitable by 2010 due to warming.
Roger Knights says: November 30, 2011 at 11:30 am
Regardless of the precise extent of ice-volume reduction, there are two reasons it doesn’t necessarily indicate an alarming degree of unnatural global warming—or even any at all.
Further to that point, there is abundant evidence that wind and atmospheric oscillations have a major influence on Arctic Sea Ice. In this October, 1 2007 NASA article;
http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/quikscat-20071001.html
Son V. Nghiem of NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory, said that “the rapid decline in winter perennial ice the past two years was caused by unusual winds. “Unusual atmospheric conditions set up wind patterns that compressed the sea ice, loaded it into the Transpolar Drift Stream and then sped its flow out of the Arctic,” he said. When that sea ice reached lower latitudes, it rapidly melted in the warmer waters.
“The winds causing this trend in ice reduction were set up by an unusual pattern of atmospheric pressure that began at the beginning of this century,” Nghiem said.”
This 2004 paper “Variations in the Age of Arctic Sea-ice and Summer Sea-ice Extent” by Ignatius G. Rigor & John M. Wallace, states that;
“The winter AO-index explains as much as 64% of the variance in summer sea-ice extent in the Eurasian sector, but the winter and summer AO-indices combined explain less than 20% of the variance along the Alaskan coast, where the age of sea-ice explains over 50% of the year-to year variability. If this interpretation is correct, low summer sea-ice extents are likely to persist for at least a few years. However, it is conceivable that, given an extended interval of low-index AO conditions, ice thickness and summertime sea-ice extent could gradually return to the levels characteristic of the 1980′s.”
http://seaice.apl.washington.edu/
This 2007 paper “Rapid reduction of Arctic perennial sea ice” by Nghiem, Rigor, Perovich, Clemente-Colo, Weatherly and Neumann states that;
“Perennial-ice extent loss in March within the DM domain was noticeable after the 1960s, and the loss became more rapid in the 2000s when QSCAT observations were available to verify the model results. QSCAT data also revealed mechanisms contributing to the perennial-ice extent loss: ice compression toward the western Arctic, ice loading into the Transpolar Drift (TD) together with an acceleration of the TD carrying excessive ice out of Fram Strait, and ice export to Baffin Bay.”
http://seaice.apl.washington.edu/Papers/NghiemEtal2007_MYreduction.pdf
This 2010 paper, “Influence of winter and summer surface wind anomalies on summer Arctic sea ice extent” by Masayo Ogi, Koji Yamazaki and John M. Wallace, published in Geophysical Research Letters states that;
“We have shown results indicating that wind‐induced, year‐to‐year differences in the rate of flow of ice toward and through Fram Strait play an important role in modulating September SIE on a year‐to‐year basis and that a trend toward an increased wind‐induced rate of flow has contributed to the decline in the areal coverage of Arctic summer sea ice.”
http://www.jamstec.go.jp/frcgc/research/d2/masayo.ogi/2009GL042356.pdf
Let’s not forget that Santa was originally an employee of Coca Cola.
Maybe he needs the money because he’s been sacked and replaced with polar bears
I think there is a consensus among the experts that Mr Claus exists. OK, so the experts are all under 7yrs old, but they are the experts and as such their views are paramount. There may be no actual evidence he exists but the experts have models that prove it. Whatismore, his existence is the only possible explanation as to how gifts apparate on Christmas morning.
There are some people (a tiny minority) who deny his existence but they are all in the pay of Big Oil. Big Oil, you see, hates Mr Claus because he has a mode of transport that doesn’t require their products and if it ever gets out how that works, Big Oil et al will suffer significant losses. So they pay professional naysayers to deny Mr Claus’ existence and the media prints their bought-and-paid-for views as fact even though they don’t have a skerrick of credibilty.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070911092139.htm
Walter said this summer’s fieldwork indicates that methane hotspots, such as the one she and the crew experienced, can come from various sources, not just thawing permafrost. Her next goal is to identify and quantify the sources of the methane hotspots around Alaska.
“It is unlikely that this methane plume was related to permafrost thaw,” said Walter, adding that the methane boiling out of the lake was more likely related to natural gas seepage.
——————————————————-
I believe that Katey Walters has learned that there’s money to be made in playing up the, IF this happens, Oh My God! We’re doomed! factor.
On Suzuki, and predictions:
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/09/28/dan-gardner-the-essential-error-of-david-suzuki/
Reminds me of the marooned.jpg included in the FOIA2009 release.
So David Suzuki, Phil Jones, Michael Mann and Kevin Trenberth are all sitting in a circle at the North Pole. Santa emerges from his workshop, clearly in a hurry, jumps into the sleigh and screams at them:
“I’m late! Quick! Which way is south?”
After a moment of confusion, they all point in different directions. This causes still more confusion as they all change their minds, point in different directions again, and then huddle and start talking about how to coordinate a consensus.
And now you know why Santa is laughing all the time. ho! ho! ho!
GettingWarm;
Sorry bud, it isn’t that you are “boring” per se, its just that you’re not contributing anything worth debating. Who should I believe? You or hundreds of scientists who have dedicated their lives blah blah blah…. Do you deny that blah blah blah….
We already have lots of trolls that have trotted out nearly those exact same words over, and over, and over…. and over, again. We’ve debated them on the facts, and they’ve retreated with their tails between their legs. Consider some of the dead on points that have made to you that you manage to ignore. For example, how is it that those spikes in CO2 you claim cause warming did so 800 years after the warming? Does CO2 time travel in addition to its other magical properties?
We’re eager for something new, something factual, something that might cause us to reconsider what we believe. Instead you trot out the same tired lines that are devoid of any meaning and have been said over and over and over again already.
Clearly you, like many other trolls, believe in recycling.
In all the years I have contributed to WUWT, I have never once insulted anyone. On this occasion I feel the need to. The cretin called Suzuki could not even allow his moronic bigotry to mention the word “Christmas”. This idiot talks about “Happy Holidays” because he is so PC that any reference to religion, other than AGW, must be an anathema to his warped thinking.
Suzuki, let me explain. Christmas is about a celebration of the birth of Jesus, the giving of presents, reflects the gifts the three wise men gave to Jesus; it is about the pleasure of giving, not the greed of receiving. This is a concept totally alien to those who would beggar the world just to make sure the lies they peddle continue to bring in the money.
Suzuki, for what it is worth, people like you make me feel physically, intellectually, spiritually and morally sick.
My dyslexia is terrible these days, I thought it said Satan’s Workshop!
Then explain why atmospheric methane has been in decline?
There is a new resource for researching newspaper articles from the last 300 years, here:
http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/
I used “arctic” for a search term and got about 84,000 results.
You can search for free, but must pay to view.
GettingWarm says:
November 30, 2011 at 4:32 pm
“Do I believe you or 100′s of respected scientists who have devoted their lives to studying the North and publicly publishing their science? Let me see???”
“Devoted their lives”. Are they all on a plane with Mother Teresa? I guess the million plus in gravy that Hansen took in was all passed on to charity.
Many of us skeptics were former acceptors of the claims of the IPCC and the warmist scientists but we have reluctantly become skeptical as we have had a closer look at the scientific works and political machinations of your vaunted “respected scientists”. I say reluctantly because it gives us no pleasure to see science desecrated by the behavior of certain climate scientists with a “cause”.
Remember when CO2 increase was the dominant forcing in global temperature? Now in desperation they are talking about natural climate cycles temporarily hiding the effects of CO2 increase. It used to be that an additional 10 years of good observations would nail down CO2 as the villain. Now Trenberth I think it was moved the goal posts out to 17 years (is that when he retires with a good pension?). How long do you think they can sustain the CAGW story in the face of the divergence between observations and hypothesis. How long before the public decides it has been had and figuratively (maybe even literally) tars and feathers the perpetrators of the scare.
@neil Jones
Thanks for the link but that should be
http://www.c3headlines.com/2011/11/new-eu-research-confirms-roman-warming-period-in-arctic-regions-warmer-than-modern.html
The last “L’ was missing.
I noted in particular the “[Little Ice Age] from which the [Arctic-region waters near Greenland] has yet to recover to Medieval Warm Period conditions.”
The abstract for the cited study
http://www.nipccreport.org/articles/2011/nov/15nov2011a4.html
goes on to say “it still has a ways to go to equal the warmth of the Roman Warm Period or even the Medieval Warm Period, which in many locations was also warmer than it is currently.”
As for Suzuki’s propaganda, PFFT! Just tell the kids it makes more sense for Santa to be based in the South Pole. At least there’d be hard rock under him should the ice melt.
I guess it takes one myth (Santa) to support another (climate change due to human CO2 contributions to earth’s atmosphere)
Is there a third myth involved here: that Suzuki is a scientist?
Maybe, once upon a time, in a universe far, far away….
He now lives in a fantasy land of his own devise…but at least they like him there….
(/ad hominem)
Guess they have the A/C on full blast in Alert, Nunavut tonight..
Whatever happened to “if we don’t do something in 10 years, nothing will stop it” which we have been hearing every year since the 1990’s.
I couldn’t find the word “Christmas” anywhere on his site. Steal all the traditional iconography and refuse to utter its name… I think we can all see where this ‘right-on’ cause is coming from.
This is just plain sick.
Right up there with Ben Santer’s scare-propaganda he aimed at little kids.
Sick. Despicable.
If Suzuki had any honor at all [SNIP: We’d prefer not to see that sort of suggestion here in WUWT. Sorry. -REP].
Hey everyone lets do something to spite Dr Suzuki …
Tip jar at WUWT or climateaudit.org
Getting Warm says:
November 30, 2011 at 10:17 am
Hmm – bots at work again. 😉 Probably not even a Troll. The science of Bots has gotten to the point that they can mimic people better than trolls. The may be used to form “public” opinion. It has become a whole new area of research and development at Universities.
ref: http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2011/11/07/technology-facebook-socialbots.html
There’s no contradiction–both can be true. Imagine climbing to a tabletop mountain and then walking along its gently declining top. And the decline is getting steeper (see Smokey’s chart)–the warm is turning.
It also speeds up the growth of shrubs and small trees, which provide shade and slow methane release (a negative feedback).
Unlikely. Check out: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/10/new-study-shows-temperature-in-greenland-significantly-warmer-than-present-several-times-in-the-last-4000-years/
Here are some quotes on Greenland I’ve mined from previous WUWT threads:
==========================================
I’ll see your 100 scientists and raise you Dr. Akasofu:
Don’t forget, these hundreds and thousands of scientists who are thrown at us aren’t the ones who are involved in the nitty-gritty (climate physics and chemistry) of the matter. They are peripherally involved only, making claims like, “It’s warming here and I can see the proxy evidence” or, “IF it warms more, these dreadful things will or might happen here.” That doesn’t add much weight to the warmists’ argument:
GettingWarm says:
November 30, 2011 at 4:32 pm
When I first viewed that video I assumed you were being sarcastic in recommending it, but after viewing some of your other contributions, it appears you were serious. I have a few problems with Ms Walters exposition. Most notably she spends most of it blathering on about melting permafrost killing off the trees around her, but anyone with even a rudimentary familiarity with Arctic environs would know that the very presence of those trees is strong proof that you are not in a permafrost area. Trees don’t survive in permafrost and so the only way that permafrost could be killing the trees is if it was advancing into an area which had been seasonally frozen, the only type of landscape where boreal forests can survive.
Also like most of those who prattle on about the coming methane cascade she seems to be under the illusion that permafrost means ground that remains permanently frozen year round. In a sense this is correct, but in almost all permafrost areas the actual permafrost layer lies beneath what is known as the active layer which thaws annually. There doesn’t seem to be a real “consensus” on the range of depths of this active layer, but in my explorations on the topic I’ve come across estimates of a minimum of 2 ft ( which seem to be fairly consistent) to maximums everywhere from 7 ft to 20 ft. What this means is that when you hear discussions of melting permafrost what is actually being talked about is ground somewhere between 2 and 6 meters below the surface which for a brief part of the summer season is going from being a degree or two below freezing to a degree or two above, hardly enough of a change to generate a wholesale methane cascade. The ground above the permafrost layer has already experienced innumerable annual thaw cycles and has thus had many opportunities to release whatever gas is there. Warming may accelerate the rate of release, but unless the warming of the atmosphere is well beyond anything that has been speculated about, its affect on the climate will be mostly immeasurable.
Molecularly methane may be many times more potent than other gases, but its concentration in the atmosphere is a thousand times less than even CO2 and what evidence that exists on the question suggests its present contribution to the GHE is almost negligible.
Dear Getting Warm,
I’ve read your posts with interest. One thing you may want to consider. I hear it is very popular to jump off cliffs. In fact, smart young people have been doing it for thousands of years with no ill effect. If anything, it would be make you smarter than you already are, and that truly would be dangerous.
Wil says:
November 30, 2011 at 11:03 am
You can’t make this stuff up!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Actually you did. You are either very young or not from BC. Anyone who lived in BC before memories were wiped in the 70’s can give you the proper answers to the issues you raise and the appropriate science be it with respect to sewage treatment, the history of BC rivers or forestry. Go to a library, read a learn Wil
Andrew Harding says:
November 30, 2011 at 5:34 pm
—–
Well said, sir.
It just goes to show Santa and AGW/CC have two things in common. More Myth than reality. 🙂
Appalling AGW/CC propaganda scaremongeringing IMHO for children.
Just like when 7-9yr old children here in NZ were shown that Al Gore rubbish propaganda An Inconvenient Truth at a local school. Some of them were coming home crying from school thinking they were on the verge of all drowning!!
GettingWarm says:
November 30, 2011 at 4:32 pm
David UK, James Sexton,
Do I believe you or 100′s of respected scientists who have devoted their lives to studying the North and publicly publishing their science? Let me see???
———————————————————————————–
GettingWarm, (GW)
I think you are misunderstanding the intention of most of the comments directed at you. Apparently, you are relatively new to engaging with skeptics. We don’t want you to believe any of us. In fact, if you did believe only one of us, you’ll find others of us disagreeing with you.
No. Don’t believe any of us. That, certainly, isn’t why I presented the arguments and information that I did. And that isn’t why I engaged with you. I don’t want you to parrot what I have to say. I want you to look at the information I’ve presented (and others) and start thinking rationally. Re-read what you just stated….. “Do I believe you or 100′s of respected scientists….. First of all, there isn’t 100s of scientists living up there…… there are 100s of scientists that visit there,,,,,,,,but that’s entirely different. I know this because I lived up there. So, I engaged with you so you could have a small bit of reality shown. I gave you information and perspective. As did many others. I gave them to you so you could discern for yourself. Don’t listen to anyone. Think for yourself. I’ll reiterate some of the things we’ve already discussed. I’ve shown you graphs…. http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/gistemp/from:2002/plot/gistemp/from:2002/trend True, by itself, it doesn’t mean much. But, we’ve also discussed arctic “melt”. I agreed that the ice has been significantly reduced since the year 2000. You stated that this would increase the warming rate. But, it hasn’t.
Now, you could ask 20 people here why? And, you may get 20 different answers. I’m not here to explain why. I’m here to explain why your 100s of scientists are FOS. GW, I don’t want you to believe me. I want you to look at the facts and think.
My best,
James
I don’t know if this is the worst thing that could happen? I know it is praying on Children, but is it any different than other advertisements selling a product, at least this is promoting preserving the environment. Not only does it just ask for money to “send to santa” to help out their organization it also suggests you purchase green gifts for friends and family. I think this is a good way to appeal to readers to participate in an environmentally friendly christmas and it is a way in which the environment can compete with toys and electronics.
Of course Santa doesn’t exist! He is just a figment of advertising men’s imaginations. HOWEVER, FATHER CHRISTMAS DOES EXIST. He lives in Lapland and children can visit him there. Plenty of snow!
Suzuki is a denier.
He’s trying to cover up the real reason for Santa moving his workshop; as he’s partly to blame. Santa was losing too many elves go missing to the steeply-increasing numbers of polar bears. Polar bears don’t simply survive on rum and coke. The plague of polar bears is just one of the unintended consequences of ill-conceived envrionmental programs; some vigourously backed by Suzuki.
As to Santa’s new workshop location, Suzuki needs to brush up on his geography: Shenzen Province is not in Canada.
🙂
James Sexton, so far, from seeing “Getting warm’s” comments, I do not think he has read one link presented to him, many of which show scientifi evidence that his assertions are not factual.
The missing reflection in his thought process is a travesty.
“he predicted, that on our present course, the earth would be uninhabitable by 2010 due to warming.”
This is the kind of bizarre claim of future climate disaster which drives me crazy.
How long do we have to observe normal climate variability before alarmists like Suzuki will admit that we are observing normal climate variability?
Scaring children.
That’s how low the Greens go to push their “blind faith” dogma. Pathetic.
As proper science already has proven: Santa is dead.
http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/santa.htm
“The true story of Santa Claus begins with Nicholas, who was born during the third century in the village of Patara. At the time the area was Greek and is now on the southern coast of Turkey.”
The above from a quick google.
I went to southern Turkey in late November a few years back. It was HOT!
Does anyone know when snow and ice started to be involved?
PS David Suzuki is beneath contempt. I discard him.
Dr. Suzuki,
“You’re a three decker sauerkraut and toadstool sandwich
With arsenic sauce!”
http://www.christmaslibrary.ca/grinch/song.htm
(not ad hom, ad grinch)
David says:
December 1, 2011 at 4:34 am
James Sexton, so far, from seeing “Getting warm’s” comments, I do not think he has read one link presented to him, many of which show scientifi evidence that his assertions are not factual.
The missing reflection in his thought process is a travesty.
===================================================
lol, yes, I expected nothing less from our close minded friend. He’s a typical alarmist commentator that will swing by, throw a few inane comments out, believing the alarmist blogs he’s frequented has properly armed him with information. When confronted with facts and truth, full blown rejection of reality kicks in.
I didn’t comment to sway him. Hopefully, we’ve planted a seed that will grow later. The reason why I comment in these situations, is because there are many more readers that aren’t commenting. Those are the ones we want to persuade. “Getting Warmer” is likely the type that will never change his mind. And, if he does, it will be a long journey for him. But, the ones reading and not commenting. Ideally they are voters in a “next” election somewhere. Perhaps in Australia to effect the carbon tax. Perhaps in the U.S. wondering about the pipeline from Canada….. maybe in Europe when considering a windmill farm…..
Very Interesting. Thanks! I had him pegged as a 1960’s hippie malcontent, the type that breezes through life sniping at everyone and everything around them. Fits right in with Ehrlich, Schneider, Holdren, Gore, etc. Lord, save us from the Peter Principle.
Kinda like an Ill Wind Blowing. Hmmmm.
So what was your previous username nere on WUWT?
It’s obnoxious. How do kids actually land on this site? Is it part of the Sierra Club’s climate change education package pushed out to schools? Or does it pop up when googling Santa?
There’s also a for-pay newspaper archive in the US, which claims worldwide coverage, at http://www.newspaperarchive.com/
Some people are more maggoty than others.
Trees falling in lakes happens all over the world, surprisingly.
http://climatecrocks.com/2010/11/30/katey-walter-and-the-flaming-lakes/
Excerpt: Katey Walter is not a household name for most people, but among climate wonks, she’s a rockstar.
You may have seen her in Earth: A Biography, introducing Iain Stewart to the lakes of northern siberia – she has become a minor youtube star for a clutch of videos showing wide eyed students lighting methane explosions on the frozen lakes of Alaska.
I wonder how much a “rockstar” gets paid for lighting farts to impress kids?
David Suzuki,
I know you need to make a living in this world. But when you stoop into the abyss to scare children into giving you money, then you have gone over to a nihilist level of self-loathing. That is the absurdity of your hatred of mankind . . . you are man.
John
In my comment above I wrote
“Molecularly methane may be many times more potent than other gases, but its concentration in the atmosphere is a thousand times less than even CO2 …”
This error is based, in my mind, on the fact that CO2 is present in parts per million while CH4 is present on parts per billion. The actual ratio is closer to 200 to1. 392ppm for CO2 to !800+ ppb for CH4.
I apologize. My only excuse is that I’ve been exposed to too much climate science lately and the tendency for bad practice seems to be invidious.
Dave Wendt,
Your comment about no trees in permafrost is wrong. Haven’t you seen drunken forests?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drunken_trees
I have family in Alaska and visited there many times. My brother runs a construction company.
For those who have put down Katey Walters and methane see:
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate/globalwarming/story/2011-11-30/warming-permafrost-climate-change-global-warming/51512986/1
Getting Warm says:
November 30, 2011 at 10:17 am
Are you denying that the Arctic is experiencing melting that normally happens on geological timescales in just a few decades?
Are you denying that the Arctic is is experiencing some of the most extreme warming, as predicted by IPCC?
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
______________________________________
That may be up for debate, though Erik the Red would tell you to quit worrying. but what is NOT up for debate is the MURDER of Friday Mukamperezida in Uganda. The removal of thousands of Africans from their land, all is so the likes of the World Bank, Lord Rothschild and Al Gore can make more money. CAGW is a hoax but Food Riots are not.
The People who continue to DEFEND these Robber Barons just makes me sick.
Using “Global Warming, ” the Robber Barons set up the bio-fuel fraud and the carbon sequestering tree farm scam. This let Goldman Sachs play the games with commodity trading that CAUSED the 2008 Food Riots while Monsanto, Cargill and ADM posted record earnings.
The Food Bubble: How Wall Street starved millions and got away with it http://harpers.org/archive/2010/07/0083022 or as pdf: http://frederickkaufman.typepad.com/files/the-food-bubble-pdf.pdf
And it gets nicely covered up as usual by the same crowd behind “Global Warming”
Food Riots Threaten Latin America on Surging Commodities in UN Assessment: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-16/latin-america-africa-most-at-risk-from-riots-as-food-prices-rise-un-says.html
More on Goldman Sachs and the bankers as the real culprits. (You can throw in the World Trade Organization, NAFTA and Bill Clinton too)
http://www.tehelka.com/story_main48.asp?filename=Ne290111Proscons.asp
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/16/the_food_bubble_how_wall_street
“We Made a Devil’s Bargain”: Fmr. President Clinton Apologizes for Trade Policies that Destroyed Haitian Rice Farming http://www.democracynow.org/2010/4/1/clinton_rice
Let Them Eat GRASS http://truthfarmer.wordpress.com/2010/12/17/let-them-eat-grass/
Food riots in America? Yes. It can happen here. http://the-classic-liberal.com/food-riots-america/
US Food Riots Much Closer Than You Think http://www.rense.com/general78/riots.htm (Six years of research backs up the last two articles. BTW)
We can count on seeing more famines in the near future as the rich play their games with the world food supply all under the cover of “Bio-fuel” Carbon sequestering and the World Trade Organization Agreement on Agriculture. The only real result will be a movement of wealth from our wallets to theirs and the deaths of an increasing number of children from famine.
WORLD WIDE LAND GRAB:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/08/us-universities-africa-land-grab
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904563904576584673419328758.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=26608
Investors make land bets as agriculture play: Agrifirma, a private investment company backed by financier Lord Rothschild, raised $159 million in 2008 to invest in 40,000 such hectares. [Brazil] http://farmlandgrab.org/post/view/19278
More articles at http://farmlandgrab.org/
Another catastrophic deadline has passed unnoticed. Blah, blah, blah.
Political propaganda aimed at children. How nice..
These drowning polar bear, CO2 monster, last year’s Santa’s home is melting production, the desolate and doomed oragutang topping himself of the cliff edge. Al Gore giving children nightmares. All of these make my blood boil.
And don’t get me started on the Climate Cops thing where they (the energy company) encourages kids to rat on their parents. How very nice.
And who funds all of this? I know that ‘Act on CO2’ (funded by the UK taxpayer to the tune of £6m) produced the CO2 monster, drowning puppy adverts aired during prime time viewing to brainwash and indoctrinate families in the most cynical and manipulative way possible, i.e. through their children.and/or concerns for their children.
As for Mr Suzuki, he obviously lives in a world far away. Far away in a world we mere ordinary people can only dream about and could not really understand anyway. He is so clever, you see. I could tell that straight away, when he started on about the nth order maggot theory.
With alll the maggots he talked about he really described himself, and his own sick, disgusting and perverted world view.
@ gettingwarm:
Are you new at this job? You said:
“Which makes the fact that Santa’s home melting a very unique event.”.
Well, what do you mean by “very unique”? Either it’s unique or it isn’t.
Geez. Tell your boss we want better trolls. At least some of our other trolls have learned pretty quickly on the job to at least become aquainted with facts. And at least some of them seem reasonably intelligent. – at least they can string a proper sentence together.
You need to shape up if you’re gonna keep gettin that pay check boy.
Santa Claus lives at Korva Tunturi in northern Finland, Not at the north pole. No problem either way.
“Bouyancy”. Objects in water displace their weight. In school, the concept might be taught like this: The king orders a gold crown made, and needs to know if he has been cheated. Archimedes takes the crown, but is stumped how to figure out whether or not it is oslid gold – so he goes home to take a bath and think. When he gets in the tub, the water sloshes out. He shouts Eureka! and runs through town naked. He puts the crown in a tub of water and measures the weight of the water that spills out, and compares that to the weight that the crown should be in gold. He discovers that the crown is not pure gold, but has been mixed with another metal, and reports this to the king.
Because if this principle, arctic ice melt cannot raise the sea level, anymore than an unattended cup of soda with ice in it will get any higher as the ice melts. Arctic ice is already displacing its weight in the water. Glacier melt from land can raise sea level, or Antarctic ice since Antarctica has land underneath it. Antarctica, however, is growing – not shrinking.
As for sea level rise itself – the sea has been rising constantly for thousands of years, this is not a new thing. Even the IPCC concluded ““No significant acceleration in the rate of sea level rise during the 20th century has been detected.” And, even if the recent milimeter jump is more than a decadal trend or a finetuning of measurement – that doesn’t broadcast catastrophy for the planet or anything out of the ordinary.
Suzuki gets creamed again by investigative journalist!!!
http://fairquestions.typepad.com/rethink_campaigns/2011/12/bad-science-in-david-suzuki-campaign.html
Getting Warm says:
December 1, 2011 at 2:20 pm
Dave Wendt,
Your comment about no trees in permafrost is wrong. Haven’t you seen drunken forests?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drunken_trees
I have family in Alaska and visited there many times. My brother runs a construction company.
——————————————————————–
Getting Warm ; thanks for the wiki link to drunken trees, one problem though, 1875 is a bit early in the current MMGW period for permafrost melt. also as stated in the link it would take several years of above freezing temperatures to produce the thermokarst, so we can call the date of the below mentioned trees original tilt 1870.
————————————————————————————————————
“Osterkamp says trees sometimes recover from leaning in a drunken forest by growing back toward the sky. He and his colleagues recently found a spruce tree with a curved, bow-like trunk. By the unique pattern of the tree rings, they determined the tree began its fight to right itself after a thermokarst developed 120 years ago.” ( #13 in the notes…article written in 1995 with no mention of the discovery date of the tree ) further, if the tree was successful in righting it self,as stated, the ground must have returned to a state of permanent permafrost.
——————————————————————————————————————
so….what caused the melt ?
and my brother in law helped build the Al-Can pipeline but has no opinion on the matter….
I bet he’d like to take some of this back. LOL
This had me rolling on the floor:
“What you receive
“You won’t actually receive a North Pole Snow Globe, or any of the other items on this page. You are purchasing what people call a “symbolic gift” as a means of donating money to support the work of David Suzuki Foundation.
“You will receive a lovely ecard describing your gift, which we hope you will share with a loved one this holiday season.
“You may get that warm, tingly feeling that comes with knowing you helped keep Canada cold by supporting vital work to turn back climate change. We certainly hope so.
“It’s only through the generous support of people like you that we are able to work with government, business and individuals to conserve our environment through science-based education, outreach and policy work.”
In other words, you send him your money and all you get in return is some stupid ecard.
Can you spell, “S-C-A-M?!!”
Cheers
I have a solution for this dilemma. Santa should relocate to the South Pole which holds 90% of the worlds ice and 70% of the earths fresh water.
From Ezra Levant’s blog: “From The Byline, Dec. 1, 2011: Santa vs. Suzuki, who will come out on top? Brian Lilley talks to me, or is it Hanukkah Harry, or is that Santa Claus?”
http://ezralevant.com/2011/12/from-the-byline-dec-1.html
Never mind, Santa can stay at the north pole. At the rate the pole is moving he can set up shop in Moscow in a few years.
Why can’t people who care have a little bit of fun?…Propaganda and public relations is a right wing weapon…lets get serious people- who really has the money here?….perhaps the corporate ruling Rockefeller family sponsored Cancer Society could be a target for making Cancer into an incurable disease- but the David Suzuki foundation? Lets get real people.. we all know when something smells bad and I am sorry but this campaign is as cute as pie…not to mention the TRUTH.
And if someone erases this comment then you should be ashamed of yourself!
All the nov 30th comments are BS- obviously posted by the same biased author of this horrible website. David Suzuki deserves our utmost respect. This website is the
Propganda- a true parasite!
m.webber,
It is you who are the parasite on the internet’s Best Science site. Suzuki is a despicable charlatan who collects money from clueless fools. Out of all the reprehensible vermin in on the climate alarmist scam, Suzuki ranks right at the top. The fact that you’re being his water boy displays your lack of intelligence and critical thinking. Your baseless comment is pure projection. Run along now back to tamino or whatever censoring blog you came from. This site is for thinking adults. You don’t qualify.
“Canadian geneticist-turned-environmentalist David Suzuki targeted children in his latest outburst of emotionally-charged enviro-gab, this time scaring the fun out of Christmas …”
So David Suzuki has now finally become so desperate he needs to milk his foundation’s money from children while propagandizing the non-existent catastrophic anthropogenic global warming for the children’s sweet holiday dreams.
David Suzuki, I pity your sorry soul, for in the end, the humans you saw all being maggots, they were merely you and your own ilk in the mirror. It happens to mankind-damning souls.
“Doctor” Suzuki has five children of his own and multiple luxurious residences in one of Vancouver’s old-money districts, Australia, an island on the BC coast, and Toronto. Being a propagandist for at least two iterations of Green faddism has been a highly successful enterprise for him. He is the perfect poster boy for any leftist loon who wants their preconceived biases confirmed by – golly! – a real, true-life expert!
Except of course that Suzuki is an expert in nothing except making fearmongering documentaries for taxpayer-funded state media.
timg56 says:
November 30, 2011 at 12:55 pm
I have to say this one sounds like it belongs in the “Mountains out of Molehills” category.
The problem is that David Suzuki is presented on American TV as a revered scientist. My kids are grown now, and my son checks the facts while my daughter trusts authorities. (She keeps me busy!) I try to keep my grandson aware of the facts when something on TV or in a movie regurgitates psycho-environmentalist doctrine–but he’s only 4, and I’m getting on in years. How long can I protect him, to ensure his education is science-based?
Every Disney or ABC Family (same company) movie sticks in some warmist [self-snip], usually to no dramatic effect–it’s just in the rules. It’s really frustrating, even if the rest of the movie is tolerable. I’m glad my grandson hasn’t been exposed to this Suzuki nonsense site, because we’re still letting him enjoy the pleasurable fantasy of Santa Claus! But he knows for a fact that the North Pole is covered by floating ice and that the South Pole is on an ice-clad continent. He knows that penguins are SH birds, and that they are not appropriate in North Pole depictions.
In the US, freedom of speech is an absolute right guaranteed in our Constitution, but we still may not yell FIRE! where there is none. When will a court step up to apply the same standard to warmist alarms, which are patently harmful to our whole society? Or, in fact, to electoral campaign ads?