OCCUPY COP 17–CMP 7 !

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

Anyone concerned about the huge influence of Wall Street on our lives should definitely be protesting the influence of Wall Street on the upcoming climate conference in Durban, South Africa. Durban is the latest incarnation of the occasional IPCC celebration. I’m not sure what it celebrates, perhaps they are celebrating being given prepaid tickets and receiving a salary plus a per diem to fly halfway round the world to a lovely remote spot to listen to people talk about wasting fossil fuel.

I know I’d celebrate if some one paid me to do that. In any case, the last party was in Cancun, and the party before that in Copenhagen. The hard life of the climate bureaucrat. The web site for the party is here, so you can see what your taxes are paying for.

Figure 1. This image illustrates the change in climate that the participants in the Durban COP 17–CMP 7 will be forced to endure. The “17″ means that this is the seventeenth time they’ve had this party, or as they call it, this “Conference of Parties”. Seventeen. Parties. The majority of the participants will be moving from late fall/early winter to late spring/early summer in Durban. I doubt that there will be many complaints about the warming involved in that change of seasons, despite the fact that it will be more than the dreaded 2°C tipping point of warming..

So what is Wall Street’s take on the Durban CO2 conference? What do the bankers say about the proposed extension of Kyoto? Here’s one man’s take, from Reuters  :

“Parties must take the opportunity in Durban to send strong signals to the carbon market regarding their commitment to its continuation and future development,” said Jose Tumkaya, chief operating officer at UK emissions-reduction project developer Ecosecurities, a JP Morgan-owned firm. SOURCE

So we have a carbon offset project developer. Said carbon reduction person makes money from reducing carbon. Banks like money. They bought up the carbon offset project development firm. It is now owned by JP Morgan.

And now, being owned by JP Morgan, and thus being Very Important People (ex officio), they get interviewed by the media to give us their impartial view of the situation:

“Negotiators should be concerned about the historic low carbon prices as they do reflect, to some degree, a lack of confidence in the long-term commitment to existing emission reduction targets, as well as continued uncertainty with regards to a future international agreement,” he said.

Be concerned, be very, very concerned …

Ah, well. The bankers are pleading for the negotiators to come up with something, anything, to keep their Rumplestiltskin machine spinning carbon into money.

So we’ve got the banks against us … gonna be a long fight. This is Wall Street at its worst, looking to keep the carbon hype afloat and pushing to keep those sweet carbon bucks rolling in.

Where are the OCCUPY! folks when we need them? I say bring on the tents and the undercooked bulgur wheat, let’s OCCUPY COP 17–CMP 7 !

w.

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72 Responses to OCCUPY COP 17–CMP 7 !

  1. SOLUTION TO CLIMATE CHANGE AND POWER CRISIS
    (Reward NRs. 100,000/= One Lakh to First who can prove wrong) Dr. Dev Bahadur Dongol
    (In The Rising Nepal: Overturning Global Warming; 25 June 2009 and Don’t Blame Gases For Green House Effect; 24 September 2009 and By Mark W. Hendrickson; Don’t Treat Co2 As A Pollutant, 25 June 2009)
    What we know
    a. Related to climate change – CLIMATE CHANGE DUE TO GASES IS IMPOSSIBLE: SOLUTION TO Climate Change…

    [SNIP: Long, intricate, copied and pasted mix of arguments covering every subject imaginable. Way off topic. -w.]

  2. Orson Olson says:

    “Where are the OCCUPY! folks when we need them?” Ummmm. Um, no – I guess.
    S***!

  3. marcmarc says:

    “Historic low carbon prices” WTF.

  4. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Another Gathering of te Druids, for them to Glurge and Mope over scandalous Refugee Displacements and tell Lies about Blizzards. All of it In-Your-Face hypocrasy as they galavant about the globe eating hors d’ouvres and patting each other on the back. Bloody sickening. A grand display to be fawned over by CNN and its collection of arrogant airheads.

  5. Kurt in Switzerland says:

    Very good point. No doubt, the ‘occupy this!’ types are a bit confused. Carbon investors will continue to lose their shorts unless the eco-warriors’ dreams come true: a worldwide treaty to radically punish production of CO2.
    Ain’t gonna happen.
    BTW, COP 16 was in Cancùn, not Mexico City. Remember the irony of the cold weather there? Durban will be in late spring – should be hot.

    Kurt in Switzerland

  6. charles the moderator says:

    I’ll bring Misti.

  7. Willis, Did you notice the obligatory stranded polar bear in the publicity shots for COP17 ar Durban?
    http://www.geoffstuff.com/Durban%20bear.JPG

  8. Stephen Harper says:

    The last party was in Cancun, not Mexico City. You know, that warm beach resort (in Mexico) which at the time the freeloaders arrived was suffering from very low temperatures courtesy of: global warming; or was it the gore effect?
    [REPLY: Tru dat, fixed. -w.]

  9. Challenge to IPCC / UNFCCC, SHAME ON YOU
    Solution to CC and Power crisis
    Dear Dr. Pachauri and Mr. Algore,
    Please give me either one scientific reason/ theory that justifies CC is due to gases OR STOP ACCUSING GASES for CC. Just accusation is not science. CC by gases is impossible. Please visit devbahadurdongol.blogspot.com for solutions to CC and ‘power crisis’. Summary is attached for your convenience. I have also explained the mistake being done in the hydropower engineering and, its correction can give us unlimited hydropower.
    Challenger,
    Dr. Dev

  10. RobB says:

    I thought people were occupying Wall Street protesting against what the ‘bankers’ are doing with all the money? I’m pretty sure they are generally against the JP Morgans of the world and what they’ve been up to.

  11. RobB says:

    Just checking wikipedia this kind of thing does seem to be covered under what they list as the aims, especially the ‘lobbyist’ bit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street

    “They are mainly protesting social and economic inequality, corporate greed, corruption and influence over government—particularly from the financial services sector—and lobbyists. The protesters’ slogan, “We are the 99%”, refers to the difference in wealth in the U.S. between the wealthiest 1% and the rest of the population.”

  12. SteveE says:

    Dev Bahadur Dongol says:
    November 2, 2011 at 1:09 am

    Haha, love the first point on your blog:

    1.Gases as fluids with freely moving molecules can’t form green house,

    That’s where everyones been going wrong I guess, why did no one else think of that? Can I ask where you bought you PhD from? I might get one too!

  13. matt says:

    Correction needed. It was Copenhagen, Cancun, then Durban, not Mexico City.

  14. John Marshall says:

    In a democracy you can remove a government by an election but how can we change bankers to ones who are science savvy?

  15. KPO says:

    Willis I’m not sure we (South Africans) would agree that Durban is a “lovely remote spot” with a rising population of about 3.2 million. Durbans coasts both north and south are pretty heavily developed “holiday destinations” probably similar to the California coastline, also home to one of our more successful rugby union teams the Sharks (although they were mauled recently by gold reef boys the Lions) Anyway, I agree a lot of hot air will be seen rising and of course our Government reps. will be there in full force milking the apologist west for all they’re worth trying to shake of few billion dollars to “compensate” for the “damage” they have caused, naturally no one will mention that all the countries dams are full to capacity, that we have had a pretty cold winter after a mild summer last, and it looks to repeat again this season. But, hey if you guys have such a bad conscience and a trainload of spare cash – by all means – our energy and fuel costs are soaring and we need somebody to pay for it. Oh and you won’t get any local protesters, they’re all be on the beach or partying with you guys.

  16. david says:

    Durban is a natural choice for them following the Copanhagen snow debacle.
    Hot and humid all year round, it will have all these monkeys in business suits sweat their eyeballs out, easier than fiddling the aircon.
    South Africa has also become an international whore for any kind of promises of money, and will go out of their way to accomodate these fatcats in the holiday city.

  17. could you please show me how gases can form a green house? i hope you know what is a green house, it as a structure to make needs transparent solid materials like plastics or glass, not to mention other materials required for construction. i did not buy Ph.D but earned. if you have read the blog carefully you should have known, since i have mentioned about it in the blog. its pity you are in the business of buying selling academic degrees.

  18. Pete in Cumbria UK says:

    Its well established that the UK Parliament is, to many intents and purposes, a university cum finishing school for those wishing to enter much more lucrative careers ‘in The City’. As Members of Parliament, the students learn all about how Government works and build an impressive list of contacts in the Civil Service (the real law makers of the country) and be privy to/help shape upcoming legislation. Once ‘graduated’, ex MPs are very valuable to big industry, banks and finance houses. Witness our very own Tony Blair, ex Prime Minister and now ‘advisor to JP Morgan at £2.5 million per year – something like 20 times his PM salary alone just for that one position among (how) many others.

    Then, after a few years ‘in The City’, they return as members of The House of Lords.
    The EU is the same and are even trying to do something about it..
    http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,3326189,00.html
    esp as many/most of these ‘lobbyists’ are ex EU insiders.
    The whole thing is far to close, cosy and thoroughly stinks.
    I’d suggest that the ‘Occupy’ people do have a point of sorts but are aiming at the wrong target(s)

  19. Leon Brozyna says:

    Climate change? It’s all politics and, as the saying goes, politics makes for strange bedfellows.

  20. DirkH says:

    KPO says:
    November 2, 2011 at 3:01 am
    “Oh and you won’t get any local protesters, they’re all be on the beach or partying with you guys.”

    The EU delegations will bring their own.

  21. Peter Miller says:

    Durban – a “lovely spot”?

    It is a dirty, hot, sweaty, dangerous dump, with one redeeming grace: it’s a great place to be mugged.

    A good mugging is usually a sure cure for being a liberal; in extreme cases two muggings are sometimes needed. There is a good chance some of the AGW faithful will get mugged – you never know, that could be a cure for their condition.

  22. Bernie says:

    Willis:
    I checked out how they are going to off set all that carbon they generate through the conference. It says absolutely nothing. Just platitudes and handwaving. No real changes. Ultimately they will simply put a surcharge on all the bills to cover the purchasing of carbon credits at inflated prices. May it snow on their parade!

  23. Speed says:

    Rent Seeking
    In economics, rent-seeking is an attempt to derive economic rent by manipulating the social or political environment in which economic activities occur, rather than by adding value.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent_seeking

  24. DirkH says:

    Pete in Cumbria UK says:
    November 2, 2011 at 3:41 am
    “The EU is the same and are even trying to do something about it..
    http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,3326189,00.html

    ah yeeah sure, the European Parliament, who just agreed with the suggestion of the Commission to raise the EU budget by 4.9 % next year. MEP’s are as self-serving as it gets and totally disconnected from the interest of their voters. The European Parliament is just responsible for rubberstamping everything the council of ministers (“council” is “Soviet” in Russian, BTW) and the commission decide.

    They’re trying to do something about their own corruption? Look:
    “However, Green lawmakers and an anti-lobby lobby lamented that the measures were not even stronger, saying that they had been watered down with a loophole for lawyers.”

    If anyone works with lobbyists, it’s the renewable energy industry, the darlings of the Greens; they pumped ALL of their profits during the highly subsidized era when PV cells were a sought-after good into building up lobbying organizations, instead of R&D. Don’t believe for a second that Greens will do anything against this influence-taking. Probably they just want the lobbying money to go into the coffers of the Green parties instead, or directly on the bank accounts of their MEP’s.

  25. ozspeaksup says:

    if theres money in it a bankster will agree.
    if theres money in it the GM makers will agree and promote their crud as being green.
    if theres a news crew ready to film a pollie will sell his soul.

  26. SteveE says:

    Dev Bahadur Dongol

    You obviously don’t understand the difference between the green house effect and a green house which are different things:

    “The “greenhouse effect” is named by analogy to greenhouses. The greenhouse effect and a real greenhouse are similar in that they both limit the rate of thermal energy flowing out of the system, but the mechanisms by which heat is retained are different. A greenhouse works primarily by preventing absorbed heat from leaving the structure through convection, i.e. sensible heat transport. The greenhouse effect heats the earth because greenhouse gases absorb outgoing radiative energy and re-emit some of it back towards earth.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect#Real_greenhouses

    I’m afraid it really does speak much for the quality of PhD’s from Nottingham if you weren’t able to research the most basic of facts.

  27. Great post Willis.

    The ‘big news’ in climate circles in the last week has been the controversy over BEST. In finance it’s been the collapse of the Euro and related credit problems for banks. But in London, like the US, the important critics of the banks have been taken to be the Occupy crowd. BBC’s flagship serious daily news analysis programme, Newsnight, has taken this line, for example.

    Without trying to push the parallels too far we’ve had a case of false alternatives in both areas. You’ve cut through that brilliantly here. We should always be more concerned by banks using government to make easy money than the ‘evils’ of the free market. The Occupy folk aren’t totally naive to this, if the Wikipedia page RobB cites is accurate, but they haven’t remotely tumbled to the application to climate policy, in anything I’ve seen.

    They need to be reading Watts Up With That from their mobile devices, powered by and made from fossil fuels, as many have pointed out. Perhaps they will. It is a time of change. But an Occupy camp in Durban putting the focus on Africa’s poorest the how they’ve already been impacted by CAGW-justified measures like biofuels – that would indeed be something else.

  28. Corey S. says:

    In any case, the last party was in Mexico City, and the party before that in Copenhagen.

    The last one was in Cancun, not Mexico City.

    http://unfccc.int/meetings/cancun_nov_2010/meeting/6266.php

  29. SteveE says:

    Dev Bahadur Dongol

    Your concept of linking hydroelectric turbines in series for unlimited power is laughable:

    There is a limited amount of potential energy in the water behind a dam. You cannot just set up an endless number of turbines to generate endless energy.

    Once the water passes through the first turbine, its energy is mostly spent. If another identical turbine were set up in the exhaust of the first turbine, it would require the same amount of force as the first turbine. Water would build up in front of that second turbine until enough force had built up to turn the second turbine. If the water is exerting that force on the second turbine, it is also exerting that force on the first turbine in the opposite direction. That first turbine will not generate as much energy, since the pressure differential between the water entering into it, and the water on the other side of it is nearly equal.

    It is the same reason why the don’t just build multiple dams in a row. The water in between the turbines (and dams) pushes both ways. Energy can be generated when the turbine is the border between lots of pressure and no pressure.

    If you really were an associate professor I feel sorry for all your students who you taught!

  30. higley7 says:

    The COP people think long term. They have already reserved the city of Las Vegas, the whole thing, for a month-long party in 2030. ;)

  31. higley7 says:

    Dev Bahadur Dongol says: November 2, 2011 at 3:26 am:
    “could you please show me how gases can form a green house? ”

    You’re just not thinking the way you should. You need to believe that gases can do this, and then it works. You see, if you really believed and had faith in the IPCC, you would already understand that you do not need to understand—that’s just silly thinking.

  32. Chris B says:

    Dev Bahadur Dongol says:
    November 2, 2011 at 3:26 am
    could you please show me how gases can form a green house? i hope you know what is a green house, it as a structure to make needs transparent solid materials like plastics or glass, not to mention other materials required for construction. i did not buy Ph.D but earned. if you have read the blog carefully you should have known, since i have mentioned about it in the blog. its pity you are in the business of buying selling academic degrees.

    _____________

    The word “Greenhouse” as used in CAGW theory is not to be taken literally. It’s a bad metaphor for the supposed hypothetical behaviour of solar radiation.

    I like your idea of turbins in series though.

  33. Alan the Brit says:

    Pete in Cumbria UK says:

    November 2, 2011 at 3:41 am

    Au contraire, Pierre! Most of our laws are made in the PDREU/EUSR & smothed into the British law under all sorts of back methodologies, or should I just say blatently dodgy!

    It’s a pity the website has the ubiquitous countdown clock so favoured of these types as though it’s really meaningful! Cancun was a junket fest of 5-Star hotels, cocktails, champagne, fine wines, the finest foods from around the world, parties, & all paid for by Western Democracies (what’s left of us living in the “post democratic” age)! I dare say “Durban” will be ditto I dare say, can’t wait!

  34. Gail Combs says:

    Dev Bahadur Dongol says:
    November 2, 2011 at 3:26 am

    could you please show me how gases can form a green house? i hope you know what is a green house, it as a structure to make needs transparent solid materials like plastics or glass…..
    ___________________________________
    Dr. Dongol Welcome to WUWT.

    I was pleased to see your site includes translations to other languages.

    I hope you take the time to read some of the back articles at this site. There is a lot of information and good discussion of ideas.

  35. climate creeper says:

    marcmarc says:
    November 1, 2011 at 11:11 pm

    “Historic low carbon prices” WTF.

    ———–

    I believe the correct word is “Histrionic”.

  36. Latitude says:

    Wouldn’t these be the rich republicans………

    “”Many “Occupy Wall Street” protesters arrested in New York City reside in more luxurious homes than some of their rhetoric might suggest, a Daily Caller investigation has found.

    For each of the 984 Occupy Wall Street protesters arrested in New York City between September 18 and October 15, police collected and filed an information sheet recording the arrestee’s name, age, sex, criminal charge, home address and — in most cases — race. The Daily Caller has obtained all of this information from a source in the New York City government.

    Even in the nation’s currently depressed housing market, at least 95 of the protesters’ residences are worth approximately $500,000 or more””

    http://dailycaller.com/2011/11/02/nyc-arrest-records-many-occupy-wall-street-protesters-live-in-luxury/#ixzz1cYh4WwY7

  37. Gail Combs says:

    John Marshall says:
    November 2, 2011 at 2:49 am

    In a democracy you can remove a government by an election but how can we change bankers to ones who are science savvy?
    ______________________________________
    Why the heck do you think most countries have Central Banks??? It is so people are allowed the ILLUSION that they run their country through elections while the BANKERS actually run the country!

    “Give me control of a nation’s money and I care not who makes it’s laws” — Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild

    The fight for control of US banking: Cartelization of Banking

    President Andrew Jackson explains the dangers in his 4th Annual Message 1868

    Every man of property or industry, every man who desires to preserve what he honestly possesses or to obtain what he can honestly earn, has a direct interest in maintaining a safe circulating medium–such a medium as shall be real and substantial, not liable to vibrate with opinions, not subject to be blown up or blown down by the breath of speculation, but to be made stable and secure. A disordered currency is one of the greatest political evils. It undermines the virtues necessary for the support of the social system and encourages propensities destructive of its happiness; it wars against industry, frugality, and economy, and it fosters the evil spirits of extravagance and speculation.

    It has been asserted by one of our profound and most gifted statesmen that–

    Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring classes of mankind, none has been more effectual than that which deludes them with paper money. This is the most effectual of inventions to fertilize the rich man’s fields by the sweat of the poor man’s brow. Ordinary tyranny, oppression, excessive taxation–these bear lightly on the happiness of the mass of the community compared with a fraudulent currency and the robberies committed by depreciated paper. Our own history has recorded for our instruction enough, and more than enough, of the demoralizing tendency, the injustice. and the intolerable oppression on the virtuous and well-disposed of a degraded paper currency authorized by law or in any way countenanced by government. [Senator Daniel Webster read this into the Congressional Record on March 4, 1846]

    “It is one of the most successful devices, in times of peace or war, of expansions or revulsions, to accomplish the transfer of all the precious metals from the great mass of the people into the hands of the few, where they are hoarded in secret places or deposited under bolts and bars, while the people are left to endure all the inconvenience, sacrifice, and demoralization resulting from the use of depreciated and worthless paper. “http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=29509

    Too bad President Jackson’s 4th Annual Message is not required reading in every school in the world. It would save us from a lot of misery and fraud.

  38. TomT says:

    Based on that picture It doesn’t look like the IPCC is concerned about sea level rise. I guess Copenhagen taught them to not worry about reduced snow and Cancun taught them not to worry about sea level rise.

  39. HenryP says:

    well, according to my summary of measurements from a weather station in Pretoria,
    winters here in South Africa have been cooling quite significantly.
    http://www.letterdash.com/HenryP/winters-are-getting-colder-in-pretoria-bring-back-the-global-warming-please
    Average temps (means) stayed more or less the same,
    (see tables: http://www.letterdash.com/HenryP/henrys-pool-table-on-global-warming)
    but maxima were significantly higher.
    A set of truly amazing results.

  40. Gail Combs says:

    Peter Miller says:
    November 2, 2011 at 4:24 am

    Durban – a “lovely spot”?

    It is a dirty, hot, sweaty, dangerous dump, with one redeeming grace: it’s a great place to be mugged…..
    ___________________________________________
    Gee, do you think we can export some of our muggers? I am sure New York City, St Louis, London UK and Washington DC would eagerly give you a permanent loan.

    (I got robbed at gun point in the wonderful city of Washington DC)

    http://urbantitan.com/10-most-dangerous-cities-in-the-world-in-2011/

  41. Curiousgeorge says:

    Orson Olson says:
    November 1, 2011 at 11:06 pm

    “Where are the OCCUPY! folks when we need them?” Ummmm. Um, no – I guess.
    S***!
    ==================================================================

    They’re all busy getting tested for STD’s. Latex is not natural, therefore bad. ;) http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/occupy_ball_street_aIoZXVqZ3hU8Zm9oX5aGWM .

  42. Vince Causey says:

    Peter in Cumbria,

    “As Members of Parliament, the students learn all about how Government works and build an impressive list of contacts in the Civil Service (the real law makers of the country) and be privy to/help shape upcoming legislation. Once ‘graduated’, ex MPs are very valuable to big industry, banks and finance houses. Witness our very own Tony Blair, ex Prime Minister and now ‘advisor to JP Morgan at £2.5 million per year – something like 20 times his PM salary alone just for that one position among (how) many others.”

    I never thought about it in that light. But now you’ve pointed out the extensive training that Tony Blair has received, how can I begrudge him his lucrative posts in industry?

  43. KPO says:

    Peter Miller says: “Durban – a “lovely spot”? It is a dirty, hot, sweaty, dangerous dump, with one redeeming grace: it’s a great place to be mugged.”
    Now you’re making me feel all defensive and tribal. But yea, don’t walk around with your Nikon or Sony around your neck and your head up your ass, believing all the liberal hype/tripe about the poor innocent Africans, these guys can hurt you bad. Other than that it was/is/could be the best country in the world.
    However in other news – “Many “Occupy Wall Street” protesters arrested in New York City “occupy” more luxurious homes than their “99 percent” rhetoric might suggest, a Daily Caller investigation has found. …..Among addresses for which information is available, single-family homes listed on those police intake forms have a median value of $305,000 — a far higher number than the $185,400 median value of owner-occupied housing units in the United States.
    Some of the homes where “Occupy” arrestees reside, viewed through Google Maps and the Multiple Listing Service real estate database, are the definition of opulence.” Now how did I just KNOW that.

  44. John Zwinak says:

    OK! The “Occupy” people have generated the publicity. Now we need a program to fix the problems. We have only one effective tool at our disposal. Our vote. But it only works when it is coordinated. The answer? Allow no incumbent to return to office! If this is done for two election cycles you will not be able to see Washington for the dust being raised to straighten out the government, the economy and rent seekers.

    Johnz

  45. mizimi says:

    SteveE:
    Actually you can get more electricity by putting turbines in series – it is already applied in steam generating plants where the exhaust (low pressure) steam from turbine 1 ( high pressure) is used for turbine2. The same principles apply to water turbines…but of course all one is doing is making the plant more efficient at using the available energy, not getting something for nothing.

  46. Frank K. says:

    This is a good time to remind all delegates to this conference…


    PLEASE STOP ALL USE OF PETROLEUM PRODUCTS AND ENERGY DERIVED FROM PETROLEUM NOW! TODAY! IMMEDIATELY!

    Doing otherwise will of course be pure hypocrisy on your part.

    If you have arrived at Durbin in anything other than a wind-powered ship, solar-powered blimp, or an electric or human-powered land vehicle, then you must recuse yourself immediately from all activities as you have already set a BAD example for others by using carbon-belching methods of transportation!

    Thank you for your attention…

  47. kramer says:

    Speaking of the influence of Wall Street on the upcoming climate:

    - There are over $600 trillion dollars worth of derivatives created in large part from the subprime market.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/13/books/excerpt-capital-offense.html?pagewanted=all

    -“A lot of risk in the subprime asset-backed market is embedded in, and amplified by, C.D.O.’s,”
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/31/business/worldbusiness/31derivatives.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print

    - These derivatives were created in large part by Blyth Masters of JP Morgan.
    http://www.financial-edu.com/history-of-credit-derivatives.php

    - In 2008, Masters donated 19 times to democrats and only 2 times to a Republican:
    http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/contributions/blythe-masters.asp?cycle=08

    So why does Wall Street have an interest in climate?

    Carbon Capitalists Warming to Climate Market Using Derivatives

    For Wall Street, these kinds of voluntary carbon deals are just a dress rehearsal for the day when the U.S. develops a mandatory trading program for greenhouse gas emissions. JPMorgan, Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Morgan Stanley will be watching closely as 192 nations gather in Copenhagen next week to try to forge a new climate-change treaty that would, for the first time, include the U.S. and China.

    . . .

    These two worlds came together in the offices of Blythe Masters at JPMorgan Chase & Co. Masters, 40, oversees the New York bank’s environmental businesses as the firm’s global head of commodities. JPMorgan brokered a deal in 2007 for Land Rover to buy carbon credits from ClimateCare, an Oxford, England-based group that develops energy-efficiency projects around the world.

    . . .

    As a young London banker in the early 1990s, Masters was part of JPMorgan’s team developing ideas for transferring risk to third parties.

    . . .

    The banks are preparing to do with carbon what they’ve done before: design and market derivatives contracts that will help client companies hedge their price risk over the long term. They’re also ready to sell carbon-related financial products to outside investors.

    Masters says banks must be allowed to lead the way if a mandatory carbon- trading system is going to help save the planet at the lowest possible cost. And derivatives related to carbon must be part of the mix, she says. Derivatives are securities whose value is derived from the value of an underlying commodity — in this case, CO2 and other greenhouse gases.

    . . .

    Estimates of the potential size of the U.S. cap-and-trade market range from $300 Billion to $2 trillion.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aXRBOxU5KT5M

    What’s the total world carbon market worth?
    World Carbon-Dioxide Market to Reach $20 Trillion, Sandor Says
    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=21070001&sid=ar0X_FWXo1ag

    Since the subprime market helped give us $600 trillion dollars in derivatives, I gotta believe that derivatives from the cap-and-trade market (should it be realized) would dwarf this $600 trillion dollar number by at least a magnitude. Because there’s so much money involved here, this to me is the main reason why Wall street has an interest in climate and this upcoming conference. (Interestingly, you can find a number of people on WRI’s list of directors page who have worked at various banks and one who is a member of socialistinternational.org.)
    http://www.wri.org/about/board

    In summary, what I can see happening is, part of our wealth will be garnished by bankers who will enrich themselves, and part of what’s left of our wealth will be redistributed to other nations and pay off our debt. At the same time we’ll get it in the democrat again as our economic way of life is transformed into a socialist egalitarian hell when we implement the solutions to the term ‘sustainable development,’ a term that came out of the Brundtland report that was chaired by Gro Harlem Brundtland, the first VP of socialistinternational.org.

  48. Mark.R says:

    These guys never walk the talk they alway using fossil fuel them selfs.
    They should be going to Durban by yacht.

  49. Gail Combs says:

    Orson Olson says:
    November 1, 2011 at 11:06 pm

    “Where are the OCCUPY! folks when we need them?” Ummmm. Um, no – I guess.
    S***!
    =============================
    Curiousgeorge says:
    November 2, 2011 at 8:15 am

    They’re all busy getting tested for STD’s. Latex is not natural, therefore bad. ;)
    ==============================
    Oh good grief. They really need to quit listening to the propaganda and do their own research. Latex is the sap of the rubber tree. See Photo: http://www.solarnavigator.net/images/rubber_tree_latex_collection_dripping.jpg

  50. DCC says:

    Speed said: “Rent Seeking – In economics, rent-seeking is an attempt to derive economic rent by manipulating the social or political environment in which economic activities occur, rather than by adding value. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent_seeking

    In other words, the generic term for a protection racket?

  51. Gail Combs says:

    KPO says:
    November 2, 2011 at 8:24 am

    …..However in other news – “Many “Occupy Wall Street” protesters arrested in New York City “occupy” more luxurious homes than their “99 percent” rhetoric might suggest, a Daily Caller investigation has found. …..Among addresses for which information is available, single-family homes listed on those police intake forms have a median value of $305,000 — a far higher number than the $185,400 median value of owner-occupied housing units in the United States.
    Some of the homes where “Occupy” arrestees reside, viewed through Google Maps and the Multiple Listing Service real estate database, are the definition of opulence.” Now how did I just KNOW that.
    ______________________________________

    I am NOT defending this people, just setting the record straight.

    New York City is VERY HIGH PRICED. A $500,000 home in Long Island or Westchester could go for $100,000 to $250,000 else where.

    I traded $75,000 plus 2 bed room ranch on two ac in a little town 60 miles north of Boston MA for a 106 ac farm with a new four bedroom home 30 miles south of Raleigh NC/research triangle park. (Doubled the size of the home) I could have done an even trade for a three bedroom on 45 ac but someone beat my off by an hour.
    If you go to Watertown NY where friends live they will PAY you to take the house (Just kidding but it is a remote cold place)

  52. Gail Combs says:

    John Zwinak says:
    November 2, 2011 at 8:37 am

    OK! The “Occupy” people have generated the publicity. Now we need a program to fix the problems. We have only one effective tool at our disposal. Our vote. But it only works when it is coordinated. The answer? Allow no incumbent to return to office! If this is done for two election cycles you will not be able to see Washington for the dust being raised to straighten out the government, the economy and rent seekers.
    _______________________________________________

    I have been doing that for years. Replace the Hogs at the trough with piglets.

    The problem is the bankers/Corporations OWN all the candidates. They also own the media. All you have to do is look at what was done to Ron Paul and what is being done to Herman Cain. Sexual Harassment allegations but we can’t tell you WHO or WHAT????

    I suggest getting behind voter recall legislation and the “informed jury movement” Both put power back into the hands of people and not the politicians.

    (And no I am not a Republican)

  53. Owen says:

    Gail Combs says:
    November 2, 2011 at 7:45 am

    If it was 1868, the president was Andrew Johnson. Jackson was in the 1829-1837 time frame and was dead by 1845. You also have reversed the two quotes. The loquacious lines of the first could come from only a few other than Daniel Webster while the more mundane language of the second quote is obviously that of the impeached Johnson. Upon a simple Google search of the text I find that I am correct.

    Not too much of a complaint, just wouldn’t want the quotes to be misrepresented. Further into the Johnson quote it refers repeatedly to a civil war recently completed which also gives away the author nicely.

  54. E.M.Smith says:

    I’ll go Occupy Durban… If someone can pony up the airfare and hotel expenses… (No, I don’t need as fancy as the Government Lackeys. Something about “Best Western” or Marriott class would be fine… )

    Don’t even need the special meet and greet high end horse doovers. ;-) I’m fine with Taco Bell and / or whatever the local bacon and eggs place might be…

    Guess I’ll never make it as a Government Lackey… my morals are too high and my “comfort” standards are too low…

  55. Latitude says:

    Gail Combs says:
    November 2, 2011 at 11:04 am

    I am NOT defending this people, just setting the record straight.

    New York City is VERY HIGH PRICED. A $500,000 home in Long Island or Westchester could go for $100,000 to $250,000 else where.
    ====================================================
    Gail, follow the link….
    They have pictures of some of the houses and they are from all over the country…
    ….Texas, Maryland, New Jersey, Virginia, California, Wisconsin etc….all over
    http://dailycaller.com/2011/11/02/opulent-homes-of-the-99-percent-slideshow/

  56. John Trigge says:

    If our Oz PM gets her way, we will be providing much of the largesse the bankers are after.

    Our soon-to-be-introduced carbon tax is estimated to cause A$50Bn per year to be sent overseas by 2050. This is to be doled out by the [b/w]ankers who will, naturally, have to take a ‘little’ commission to pay for their time and effort and expertise.

    If Julia’s plan works, us self-less Aussies are merely the vanguard for ALL countries with a green conscience to join in this grand plan to rid the world of that most dangerous of villains, CO2.

    Of course, although the A$ is currently on par with the $US, when we reach 2050 and no other country has been so stupid as to introduce our draconian laws, the $A won’t be worth much more than a tonne of CO2e from the Chicago Climate Exchange.

    Viva la ‘Clean, Green Future’

  57. Gail Combs says:

    Owen says:
    November 2, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    Gail Combs says:
    November 2, 2011 at 7:45 am

    If it was 1868, the president was Andrew Johnson….
    __________________________________

    Thanks the internet was an absolute mess on that quote. Allegedly United States Senator Nelson W. Aldrich, also quoted the same speech from Daniel Webster at a New York City dinner speech on October 15, 1913 two months before his pet Federal Reserve System was passed by the Congress.

    If Adrich DID repeat that quote by Webster, I would not be surprised if it wasn’t an inside joke among the bankers who planned to grow rich by siphoning off the wealth of the US citizenry from 1913 to the present.

    I hated history so it is not my strong suit. I have probably learned more history in the last few years than I ever did in school.

  58. Gail Combs says:

    E.M.Smith says:
    November 2, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    I’ll go Occupy Durban…
    _________________________

    I wish I could “Pony up” …..well if you want I have two ponies I want to get rid of…

    Too bad we can not get the Koch Brothers to foot the bill but then you would hear screams of corporate/oil funding all the way to the moon.

    Darn, I really wish we could send you and a few others.

  59. Gail Combs says:

    Latitude says:
    November 2, 2011 at 12:55 pm
    Gail, follow the link….
    They have pictures of some of the houses and they are from all over the country…
    ….Texas, Maryland, New Jersey, Virginia, California, Wisconsin etc….all over
    _________________________
    Must be nice… I haven’t had a vacation in over 15 years so I do not even think of traveling any more.

    I know, Let’s get THEM to foot the bill to send E.M Smith to Durbin!

  60. kadaka (KD Knoebel) says:

    From Curiousgeorge on November 2, 2011 at 8:15 am:

    They’re all busy getting tested for STD’s. Latex is not natural, therefore bad. ;) http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/occupy_ball_street_aIoZXVqZ3hU8Zm9oX5aGWM .

    Heh. Something closer to the truth is in the article:

    Volunteers at the medical tent hand out cash, usually $15 or $20, so the randy radicals can visit clinics that cater to a low-income clientele, the source said.

    They apparently can’t buy condoms, but they can stand in line for free cash, available just for saying they had stupid unprotected sex, which will then presumably be used to drain resources alloted to help the truly needy.

    Such a wonderful interesting group, these OWS people. They need free food and financial help for medical treatment to survive, live in tents and use generators that have obviously miraculously appeared as these impoverished protesters couldn’t afford them themselves. As a mixed blessing given their dire financial straits, they also don’t have to worry about paying for rent and utilities on residences retained during their Occupation (being obviously poor and homeless), and are not even concerned about paying for cell phone service and internet access being used during their protest.

    Such truly deserving people, it is blatantly clear that some form of governmental intervention is required to provide them with the help they desperately need. Unfortunately the expected “government standard” response will involve further mortgaging the futures of the protesters straight through to their grandchildren, with repercussions all throughout their lives, to provide them with a little bit more money, at least for the next few elections.

    Isn’t there one of those foreboding Ancient Chinese Sayings that goes “May you receive what you desire”?

  61. Vince Causey says:

    Chris B,

    “I like your idea of turbins in series though”

    Perhaps you mean “turbans”?.

  62. Latitude says:

    Gail Combs says:
    November 2, 2011 at 1:34 pm
    I know, Let’s get THEM to foot the bill to send E.M Smith to Durbin!
    =====================================================
    shoot…let E.M make his own way
    You and I are going to start a occupy Cancun movement………..LOL

  63. Brian H says:

    The despair over the low price of carbon offsets is likely to become terminal. Supply is immense, potentially almost unlimited. Buyers are scarce, and have to be constrained to purchase. It would be a great market to short …

  64. Jessie says:

    I read the header and thought hmm, Copenhagen, not sure on that one, perhaps united nation types. But Cancun and Durban…… what’s the go with their legislation on property rights these days??
    Don’t know too many in the enlightened world that are enamour with excessively high unemployment, excessively high un-education and un-production reflected against such a demographic, excessively high rates of violence and disease inc HIV in an economy pushing socialised interventions by the government and concurrently an increased waged bureaucracy. And the usual bias towards transparency in private enterprises these days. Spells failed state. Nice beaches. Albeit great white pointers.

    KPO says: November 2, 2011 at 3:01 am AND…
    KPO says: November 2, 2011 at 8:24 am
    Peter Miller says: “Durban – a “lovely spot”? It is a dirty, hot, sweaty, dangerous dump, with one redeeming grace: it’s a great place to be mugged.”
    Now you’re making me feel all defensive and tribal. But yea, don’t walk around with your Nikon or Sony around your neck and your head up your ass, believing all the liberal hype/tripe about the poor innocent Africans, these guys can hurt you bad.

  65. SteveE says:

    mizimi says:
    November 2, 2011 at 8:57 am

    Thanks mizimi, I wasn’t awear of it’s use in steam power, but my argument is that you can’t get “unlimited power” by linking them in series as the good “Doctor” suggests. In hydroelectric stations linking them in parallel is the most efficient method used as each turbine gets the same head height and flow rate which are the main variables. If you linked the same number of turbines in series you’d have less power as each turbine would recieve a lower head height and flow rate than the previous.

  66. Smokey says:

    “Occupy” deviants/criminals/tools vs the Tea Party:

    http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/209965.php

  67. richard verney says:

    Nothing will be achieved since the world has run out of capital, and those that have some money such as China are not really interested and have other economic concerns such that they will not lead the way.

    This is just going to be an expensive party and spin will be given to the need to take strong and prompt action. They will remain on message but nothing more than that.

  68. Gail Combs says:

    richard verney says:
    November 3, 2011 at 8:12 am

    Nothing will be achieved since the world has run out of capital, and those that have some money such as China are not really interested and have other economic concerns such that they will not lead the way….

    Depends on your definition of “Capital” Bernanki seems to think it is fiat currency and is printing it by the truck load. (I consider it labor + raw material = salable product or a salable service)

    In many discussions you see the confusion between money wealth and capital.

    This is a great article about fiat currency and hyperinflation, something we are all looking at especially if we keep throwing “capital” away on idiotic government underwritten scams. http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2011/04/on-hyperinflation.html

  69. richard verney says:

    It appears that the G20 could not agree on anything despite the real and urgent need. Thus, what chance is there that an even bigger group of countries with different agendas will be in a position to agree on anything?

    Governments should grow up and recognise that now is not the time to agree on anything of substance in the AGW field and should therefore cancel get togethers of this type which merely waste money which Governments do not have to waste.

    In fact those arguing for a reduction in CO2 should be campaigning against holding this conference since it will simply result in a substantial amount of CO2 emissions all for no avail.

  70. Slacko says:

    Dev Bahadur Dongol:
    Hey, and you can use the last turbine to pump the water back up into the dam. Ha ha.

    PhD my arse! Get lost you moron.

  71. citizenxt says:

    http://occupycop17.org/

    [Moderator's Note: a word of explanation instead of just a plain URL would be good. -REP]

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