Josh writes:
There was a debate last night at the Royal Society entitled “London’s Policy on Climate Change Should begin in Beijing“.
Event info:
If a windmill is about to blight your cherished view of the green English countryside, you might start to wonder why on earth the Department for Energy and Climate Change thinks it is a good idea to subsidise the monsters at vast cost to the British taxpayer. Why not retune some boilers in Guangdong instead? Or encourage the booming cities of China to power themselves with gas, not coal? There’s a whole raft of practical, carbon-saving steps which can be more cheaply achieved in the growing, bustling emerging world. After all, a ton of carbon saved in China is as good in global terms as a ton saved in the UK. So why ever spoil our green and pleasant land?
Hang on, though. Wasn’t the “green new deal” all about creating jobs in a new sort of economy? Making Britain a leader in an industry of the future? Not to mention making us just a little less dependent for our energy on geopolitically unstable regions of the world. Make China the focus of all our policy effort, and it will be China that reaps the knock-on benefits. Why would we realistically agree to that?
I did some sketch notes which I have put together on one page but they probably make as much sense as the title of the debate – more unintelligible than intelligent.
Hmm I wouldn’t wake the Dragon if I were Britain…
For those that don’t know Vicky Price, who spoke at the debate, is the ex wife of the infamous UK Gov. minister Chris Huhne, who loves wind turbines and speeding round the countryside in fast cars, allegedly. Chris might be prosecuted for making Vicky take his speeding penalty points on her licence.
That she was late arriving at the debate seemed ironic. Maybe she drove there very slowly.
The usual nonsense from the Royal Society.
Thanks for wasting valuable web space
sarcasm off now
Two days ago Rio Tinto announced its long expected decision to cease Aluminium production in the UK as a direct result of UK and European green taxes. It is willing to sell its assets but as a direct result of UK and European green taxes no one has made an offer.
Production will be taken up by the Chinese where not only CO2 emissions but also undisputed pollutants will be much higher. This follows the closure of steel works and the transfer of production to India with similar consequences.
The Chinese still owe us (Britain) one from the Opium Wars.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars
RobWansbeck says:
October 21, 2011 at 11:33 am
Two days ago Rio Tinto announced its long expected decision to cease Aluminium production in the UK
======
Based on the Australia Carbon Tax they are likely to do the same in Australia and move operations to Mongolia. I feel sorry for Australia, they are a net exporter and just shot themselves in the foot.
Josh, the Monbiot is great.
BTW, rejoyce: If you want to breathe carbon-neutral in the EU, you can offset 1,000 days of breathing for only 7 EUR now! (Price of Carbon permit for 1 t of CO2)
I’ve always wondered — If the USA starts a trade-war with China over currency manipulation, dumping products on our market, etc., who will buy the debt we incur from subsidizing all of our green energy projects? Where will we get the money to pay for the political paybacks the unions are demanding (infrastructure spending, education spending, etc.) And how will the OWS protesters be able to afford the non-longer inexpensive consumer electronics they now use to communicate with each other and to opiate themselves with?
Just wondering
Solent Green, they will print it just like every country in the world. Remember it is only paper, worthless as it is printed on.
Another good one Josh.
Josh, I just love the two little…uh…worms?
One who believes in the march of technology, rationalism and thought must really take a stand against those who mention Britain being a ‘green and pleasant land’ – a quote from William Blake’s poem ‘And did those feet in ancient time” aka O’ Jerusalem.
This poem was an expression of England’s religious fundamentalist class who were deeply intolerant of Britain’s ever growing industrial revolution. They wished to destroy industry and return England to a Taleban-like existence they dubbed ‘Jerusalem’ – and they were in this regard a predecessor of today’s elitist green movement.
Gary, yes, worms. I love worms – may seem a bit odd. They seemed to me to be the right kind of creatures to comment on the debate, tho’ I am not yet sure why.
They are also some of the greatest recyclers we have – and we know how important that is 😉
Shouldn’t it read: This is London, we’re poor as hell because we the green communist make our taxpayers pay 3:1 on the pound to every foreign big energy company who invest one pound in wind power in our back yard but it’s all communist Chinas fault now because we don’t dare blame north korea proper.
Thats right Al Gore’s Holy Hologram, the rest seekers of old, the landed “gentleman” and the vicars of the church of England are being replaced by the landed “wind turbine operator” and the vicars of the greenhouse scam and academia. Hurrah for good old-fashioned conservative values. Tax the poor, deny them cheap food and energy and if possible destroy the manufacturing economy that allows the proles to get off the land and get educated. Brilliant, England will soon be a green and pleasant land again. All the poor will be shovelled back into slums and the landlords will hear the sweet woosh of turbines/money.
Josh says:
October 21, 2011 at 2:45 pm
While my family pronounces our name WER-muh, my sister liked to sign some of her art with a W shaped worm. I’m not sure from the drawings – do British worms wear sweaters? Seems to me they ought. Especially the green ones. 🙂
Allan M says:
October 21, 2011 at 11:41 am
The Chinese still owe us (Britain) one from the Opium Wars.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars
Er, Britain at fault here.. The Chinese, it appears, are now getting compensated for this.
Josh, perfectly captured, and I’m grateful for the laugh to what normally brings much gloomier feelings that this the calibre of people running the country.
I turned on the radio and was confronted with live interviews of the London protesters.
Two were very obviously greenie nutters and not broke. One said something about solar cells on his tent and worse, the other whinged on spouting tripe as fact about climate change and complaining about media coverage! (earlier I happened upon two BBC climate change plants, both fruit cake but done oh so seriously)
Both were really complaining about themselves.
Off.
I know how to reduce UK fuel usage by a rather large amount, with no pain but it is unwanted and no company is going to do that without nailing down greenies and government first. Only takes known technology, proven including economics by US government some time ago. No takers.
What is the point anyway? Always any reaction is ratchet up the tax so you never ever gain and therefore the answer is no. Doesn’t matter what you do.
It’s a pity that the only proven way to reduce CO2 output is to destroy industry.
China will do what London wants when pigs sprout wings. I joked about this the other day, but I’m mostly serious, they have enough money to BUY an entire freakin’ European country (probably Greece) if they wanted to. China will do exactly what China wants to do when they want to do it and there’s not much anyone can do about it (See: rare earth metals).
@Nicanuck
I love landed “wind turbine operator”!
All you say true and just look at one of the beneficiaries of Mr Ca-moron’s insane policies. Why, it’s none other than his own father-in-law. No conflict of interest there, surely???
“Shouldn’t it read: This is London, we’re poor as hell because we the green communist make our taxpayers pay 3:1 on the pound to every foreign big energy company who invest one pound in wind power in our back yard but it’s all communist Chinas fault now because we don’t dare blame north korea proper”
I suggest you research the City of London.
It is, and runs, the largest “Tax Haven” set-up in the world.
Worth trillions, in UK pounds.
Mr Green Genes says:
October 22, 2011 at 1:13 am
@Nicanuck
and don’t forget Clegg’s wife’s family either
>> “Green Movement -> Liars, Cheats, Swindlers”
If the site policy discourages name calling, why would this be ok in the cartoon? I guess it is directed at a movement versus a single person. Nevertheless, wouldn’t this offend some folks that are “pollution green” but not into “climate science green”?
otter17, don’t take it personally. Those descriptions refer to your masters, not you. Unless you insist.
@ Brian H
My masters? Who specifically are they? Are they watching me right now? 😛
Anyway, I don’t take offense to it. I don’t care, really. It is just that some green folks want to reduce things like black carbon (I believe Anthony made mention that he supports lowering black carbon in a post a few weeks ago, and he is green in some ways I thought with electric cars). Some folks that support pollution control may be offended (as well as folks that support lowering CO2 emissions).
A fine question, above. Why bother with windmills when you can just pay China to clean up a few of their innumerable old coal-fired generators? Inquiring minds want to know.
Otter17, excellent point. That bit illustrated Malcolm Grimston calling out the Green movement. I have used a clichė to express what he said so those are not his exact words. If I can get see a playback I can make it super accurate… As long of course as it is not even more offensive. It was one of the more shocking moments during the evening, which is why I drew it big.
otter17 says:
October 22, 2011 at 3:41 pm
@ Brian H
My masters? Who specifically are they? Are they watching me right now? :-P…..
________________________________
He is talking about those who manipulate naive activists.
Specifically??? Try JP Morgan Chase for one. It is the biggest company in the world (Forbes) It has controlled the media since 1917 (US Congressional Record) Ex PM Tony Blair will earn around £2 million a year in his part-time role as adviser and the bank has major ties to the World Bank via David Rockefeller. (Chase served as training ground for World Bank Presidents)
Then there is the World Bank. At Copenhagen the so-called Danish text, a secret draft agreement would hand effective control of climate change finance to the World Bank. http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/08/copenhagen-climate-summit-disarray-danish-text
To top it off we again find the World Bank and Al Gore (as the New Forest Co.) tossing Africans off their land. Only 10% of Africans actually hold “Legal Title” so they are in the same position as America’s Native Americans were when the Europeans tossed them off their land here in the Americas. See Anthony’s: They had to burn the village to save it from global warming: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/09/25/they-had-to-burn-the-village-to-save-it-from-global-warming/
One comment is
Josualdo Silva says @ September 25, 2011 at 4:39 am
“These people are indeed on a war of extermination of life itself. Where eucalyptus are grown, nothing else will ever grown again.”
I detail exactly what he is talking about in my comment:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/09/25/they-had-to-burn-the-village-to-save-it-from-global-warming/#comment-754959
Note: Eucalyptus is very oily, a major fire hazard, an invasive mono-culture weed, sprout 20 feet in one year from a cut stump and is inedible to livestock even GOATS! No one in their right mind would plant this tree if they cared about biodiversity. However it is a great weapon for genocide of third world peasants. It is difficult to kill, spreads, soaks up water and kills off other plants thereby starving animals and humans.
HOWEVER World Bank and Al Gore will get rich in the emerging multibillion-dollar market trading carbon-credits for the CO2 the trees will soak up.
@otter17: By “black carbon” do you mean soot? I don’t think anybody here is opposed to reducing actual pollution, of which soot is merely one example. There are hundreds and thousands of substances produced by industrial processes that are actually harmful to humans, animals and plants, and I’d be surprised if anyone is opposed to controlling those (within reason). Nowadays that is a mainstream viewpoint, and it makes perfect sense, even economically.
Meanwhile the green movement has gone far beyond mere pollution control. In many of its incarnations it has become a cult or religion demanding others to follow their rituals. Climate changeism is merely one example, there are other even whackyer green beliefs.
I disagree with those who equate the green movement with communism. The two have nothing in common, they are antagonists. Communism wants to maximise industrial production and make everyone wealthy (if with morally questionable means and ultimately futile). The green movement is attacking industrial production, it blames consumerism for all kinds of problems, and it will accept the decrease of wealth and the increase of poverty for those goals, in some incarnations actively strives for poverty.