Oh noes!
Then, suddenly, this week, in summer no less, nature decides that snowfalls won’t be a thing of the past after all, and makes bozos of the BBC:
I hate it when that happens.
h/t to Ron De Haan and to Richard North, who has more examples of this hand wringing over snow at his blog, the EU Referendum.
its ok, someone has a program to “adjust” it out of existence..
it wont be there, really it wont..
ha ha ha
“Where are the Snowdens of yesteryear?” – Yossarian, Catch-22
To be fair, in 2007 trends showed it to be true. Since then though, snow has recovered world-wide. I guess there’s a lesson for everyone here and on the other side of the debate; weather and climate are too difficult to predict because they are unstable in nature.
Saying that, who knows? Maybe in 2022 all the snow will be gone. You can’t say without a doubt that won’t happen.
When it is cold “it is just weather”. Well this is another COLD summer here. I have hardly worn sandals since Easter and when I did my feet were freezing. In fact my ‘summer clothing’ is still unworn this year. We had to put heating on in the office on Thursday and Friday despite wearing ‘an extra layer’. There have been widespread warnings of grass frost this week and Metcheck (http://www.metcheck.com/V40/UK/FREE/frostrisk.asp) has a high Air Frost Risk for Edinburgh.
We have planted our a lot of cold tolerant vegetables this year. We risked a few more sensitive ones beside a warm wall, but they are suffering – our outdoor themometer recorded a minimum of 1.8C the other night.
the worst nightmare for a melon head is snow thay hate it thay sit in there flats supplyed by the tax payer and think up a whole lot off global warming crap
I guess there’s a reason why they called it Snowdon. Still, I understand my mates in the UK have been assured summer 2011 will be yet another “BBQ” summer. Not looking too hot…and its mid-June. Maybe the UK will have another 1976 “Indian summer”.
As Richard points out, all talk of “global warming” and “climate” disappears very quickly and it becomes a cold weather event. Even so they did manage to weave “drought” and “warmest” into the story. No mean feat, in a story about snow on top of a mountain, I can tell you. Here in Yorkshire it’s bloody cold and bloody wet (and has been since early may) so I have no idea which counties are apparently baking in the hot sun.
The BBC are institutionally alarmist:
1 Not a day goes by without a journo stating categorically that X will get worse due to climate change.
2 They are happy to give credit and credibility to eco terrorists.
3 Subliminal images of wind farms are introduced into programmes.
4 No debate or alternative views are permitted, yet the only green MP is afforded substantial air time despite her party only getting 0.8% of the popular vote.
Proof: There is now not a single camel in Snowdonia and thus GW has been totally reversed. The Aussies are clearly on the right track.
Well of course they did study Snowdon for a whole 14 years so they will have a grasp of ‘climate’ from that.
However, if they had just bothered to do a little research they would have found resources like this http://www.francisfrith.com/snowdon/photos/ Interesting to note that not a lot of snow shows in these pictures either.
But then as the peak of Snowdon is only 3,560ft the zero degree isotherm is often higher than that especially with the prevailing westerly winds and at 53.46North.
But as your pictures show this year the zero degree isotherm was below 3000ft in mid-June, {sarc} so it is obviously getting warmer or it wouldn’t snow would it {/sarc}
Ah, but there’s more Anthony. Savour the Northern Ireland edition of a similar story from this week as covered by the BBC.
http://autonomousmind.wordpress.com/2011/06/12/the-story-continues-northern-ireland-edition/
The BBC, it’s what they do.
Wucash:
I have seen many, many dumb comments on the web, but your above comment at June 12, 2011 at 3:47 am has to be one of the dumbest I have ever seen. It says in total:
“To be fair, in 2007 trends showed it to be true. Since then though, snow has recovered world-wide. I guess there’s a lesson for everyone here and on the other side of the debate; weather and climate are too difficult to predict because they are unstable in nature.
Saying that, who knows? Maybe in 2022 all the snow will be gone. You can’t say without a doubt that won’t happen.”
So, “weather and climate are too difficult to predict because they are unstable in nature”. OK, then why should anybody (e.g. the BBC in thecase discussed here) report such predictions as though they were true?
And, “You can’t say without a doubt that won’t happen”. That is true, but you can’t say without a doubt that it will happen, either. Indeed, you assert that “weather and climate are too difficult to predict”. So, should we worry about the large meteorite that may devastate Manhattan Island next year, and should the BBC publish a prediction that it will strike Manhattan Island merely because “You can’t say without a doubt that won’t happen”?
Richard
June 12, 2011 at 4:11 am
Wucash:
I have seen many, many dumb comments on the web, but your above comment at June 12, 2011 at 3:47 am has to be one of the dumbest I have ever seen.
Guess you don’t read Joe Romm’s stuff in you think Wucash’ s comment is in that category.
Wucash says:
June 12, 2011 at 3:47 am
“Saying that, who knows? Maybe in 2022 all the snow will be gone. You can’t say without a doubt that won’t happen.”
Actually you can say it won’t happen and is very easy to falsify. Unless Winter temperature were to rise 10c on average over the next 11 years this might become true. Even then over the late November/December 2010 bitterly cold episode from Siberia/Scandianavia, it would still have been cold enough up here on Snowdon with a 10c rise to see some snow.
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/archive/ra/2010/Rrea00120101203.gif
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/archive/ra/2010/Rrea00220101203.gif
I am sure the warmistas will just say how the ‘extremes’ are caused by AGW! hot,cold, dry, wet – it’s all OUR fault! LOL
This will surely reverse a trend of a third less snow over 14 years, thus proving the Ice Age is here!
The trend you are talking about from 2007 was taking a too short time frame sample.
The BBC (amongst others) have also been telling us how its been the driest Spring here for 100 years and drought orders are coming into force and were all going to starve to death with crop failures. What they fail to mention is that the Met Office decided to move the goalposts by declaring that Spring now starts on March 1st and ends June 1st, its currently tipping it down here in the middle of the UK. I wonder if the normal spring dates that have been the same for yonks would show the driest for 100 years, only a week to go and the forecast is for more rain. I suspect a fudge factor is being used to satisfy their own agenda.
Another epic fail. I think a synopsis of all the warmists crazy predictions dating back to the 80’s is in order. Now THAT would make a great article.
I’m always asking the CAGW believers, how many times do your people have to be wrong before you at least start raising an eyebrow?
I’d like to meet the muppet who keeps insisting the UK enjoyed its warmest spring ever. From central England and all points north, it’s been cold, wet and miserable with the exception of a few sunny days over the Easter period. What us northerners have is weather, nothing more. Apparently
global warmingdrought conditions run into a climatic brick wall at Spaghetti Junction.Thinking about a post about the heat in the US? Or does that not interest this site?
It’s a headline to foreward an agenda
Parts of the UK have been officially declared ‘drought stricken’ BBC radio 5 did a drought special last Friday, an outside broadcast from a farm. The usual “climate change assotiations were made.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b011p3tt
An interesting artical in the guardian today
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jun/10/data-store-drought
“100 years of UK rainfall: when was it this dry before?”
The embarassment was totally avoidable. Anyone who has looked at things like rainfall, snowfall, drought & flood data understands that after every bunch of extremes comes an opposite set of extremes. Nature loves to maintain its averages. Even lowly tree ring data shows this.
The concept of returning to average in the short term is simple, easy to grasp, and readily observed.
The BBC lives on the same planet 6 billion other people live on.
As adults, they should have known better than to get carried away.
Give them a Dan Rather award, they’ve earned it.
Now, for those of you out there who are wondering what happens on the next longer timespan…
the planet has just finished a multi-decade set of warmer years and leveled off, so the opposite is all set to go if/when the warming has expended its allotment. There are no guarantees, based on data, that the cooling run has commenced, or that the cooling will perfectly cancel out the warming. That is the provenance of the next overarching set of extremes.
None of this rests on what causes what, it’s just the nature of the beast or, i.e…..it’s behavior.
Journalists should not takes sides, unlike opinion piece writers, and their work should demonstrate as much.
This from the National Park Service U.S. Department of the Interior
‘Did You Know?
Glacier National park was named for the glaciers that carved, sculpted, and formed this landscape millions of years ago. Despite the recession of current glaciers, the park’s name will not change when the glaciers are gone’.
Meanwhile on the same page:-
Weekend Update for June 11-12, 2011
Plowing continues on the Going-to-the-Sun Road (Sun Road). Initial plowing has been complete to the Big Bend, five miles beyond the Loop, on the west side. Crews are encountering drifts between 10 and 20 feet. On the east side, crews are plowing the No Stump Point area, approximately one mile beyond Siyeh Bend. There is no date set for when the upper section of the Sun Road will be cleared for across park travel.
http://www.nps.gov/glac/parknews/news11-34.htm
Come on folks… We’ve been through this how many times? It will just be further proof of climate change. Any and all unusual weather is easily attributed to AGW or whatever they’re calling it these days!
Not much of a chance of warm sunny days soon for the UK. Notice lows all over the place:
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/charts/FSXX00T_00.jpg
Just remember Grímsvötn and its ash cloud which was 12 miles high (up there in the stratosphere); it has not gone away, and may be up there for some months to come.
Classic….
Well, well, well…it appears that the BBC tried this same story in 2004…
Snow ‘disappears’ from Snowdon
Last Updated: Monday, 20 December, 2004, 16:25 GMT
The snow is disappearing from Snowdon, scientists have claimed.
A study of the snowline on Wales’ icon mountain has found its winter cap has retreated over the past 10 years.
The area covered in snow has decreased from 56,000 sq metres in the winter of 1994/5 to little more than 25,000 sq metres for the past three winters.
Dr Jeremy Williams, of Bangor University, said: “This data confirms what many gardeners believe – winters are not as hard as they used to be.”
The data collected by experts from the university suggests that a white Christmas on Snowdon – the tallest mountain in England and Wales – may one day become no more than a memory.
—
Hmmm…where have I heard that idea that snow will become no more than a memory??
Anyhow, fast forward to 2007, and the article cited above…you’ll see that the “report” claiming no more snow for Snowdon was trotted out to support a POLITICAL EVENT…
(from the 2007 story)
“A Welsh assembly energy group will discuss the issue at a conference in Cardiff Bay later.”
“An assembly government spokesperson said First Minister Rhodri Morgan is expected to make a statement shortly on the steps Wales will be taking in the fight against climate change over the next few months.”
Dr Clive Walmsley, climate change expert with the Countryside Council for Wales, one of the bodies taking part in Tuesday’s joint meeting in Cardiff Bay.
—
Now, fast forward to Christmas 2010…
Snowdonia Snow Report
Sat 25th Dec 2010
No further snowfall today. Blanket cover of snow at all levels, mainly powder but also windslab deposits in sheltered locations on mainly W aspects. Ice forming at all levels. Previously compacted paths icy. Ice axe and crampons required.
—
So, the moral of the story is that some scientists and their willing accomplices in the MSM (in this case the BBC) will say anything to advance their own personal political agendas, even when their evidence is flimsy and unsupported by the facts.
Nothing from the Warmists at the BBC surprises me, but I was looking forward to more warm weather after such a lovely early spring – right now here in Suburban London, it;s raining and we have turned our central heating back on after leaving it turned off for the past month. But as someone said earlier, ole Ma Nature does like to keep to her averages. I sympathise with farmers whose crops are withering in the dry fields, but that kind of risk is part of farming
Maybe in 2022 I will rule the World, And I will appoint all the posters on this blog as my High Ministers!
You can’t Prove it won’t Happen!!!
The earth goes through short cycles of 20-30 years…180 years…1,500 years and 100,000 ice cycles. It all has to due with Sun being driven into and out of active sunspot cycles by our solar system four gas giant planets. The sun corkscrews in tight to wide sweeps pulled off course by the varying planets locations. As the sun’s inertia is more radically changed, more sunspots, more radiation, more solar wind, less cosmic rays, fewer clouds, warmer earth, mars and Pluto. When the sun is quiet as it is now, all the above inverses and the PDO shits to cold as it has. Expect the next 20-30 years being much colder. Fear the next ice age more than the planet warming back up to the times of the Romans or Minoans.
Why don’t people on the left of politics, like those at the BBC, ever get tired of sticking to the party line? Maybe George Clooney will come out with a global warming movie soon. He already made Syriana, a movie filled with political-left exaggerations. Why not make a movie filled with global warming exaggeration? There could be scene of him sweating in Russia, a scene riding in an electric car with Ed Begely, a scene shaking hands with Al Gore at some clandestine meeting about saving the world from evil big industry (they get into private jets to fly away after the meeting), a scene where George Soros is portrayed as a good guy and he funds George to go on some mission to stop skeptics from the progress they are hindering, etc., etc………..
“Where are the Snowdens of yesteryear?” – Yossarian, Catch-22
OT but when Heller was interviewed for Playboy in the early 70’s, he hinted that there was a riddle within the story line of that book but wouldn’t reveal what it was. Has anyone reading this perceived what that riddle could be?
Ah. That would be a Crater Lake-ish outlier then. Say goodby to weather stations up there reporting for Hansen’s data base.
If the UK is that dry, then all I can say is that they must not (according to the prevailing talking point opinion) have any water vapor, thus no CO2, in the air. Mother nature strikes at the heart of AGW again.
A main reason I post anonymously here is that i wouldn’t be too surprised if recent cooling turned around and became significant warming again. In my personal opinion it still wouldn’t be caused (mainly) by CO2 generated by people, but I don’t want people to find my opinion on the subject without talking to me personally since I’m not an expert and don’t profess to be one. I have no idea what is going to happen, and I’m not sure anybody else does either.
John Brookes says: June 12, 2011 at 4:44 am
Thinking about a post about the heat in the US? Or does that not interest this site?
The heat in the US? Which part of it? We’re still hitting the 30°s most nights in west central Colorado. The foliage, hummingbirds, and snow runoff are three weeks late this year. I’m sure you can find a heat wave somewhere else.
@John Brookes, Yes the heat concerns me. Aim afraid my heating system may come on in Boston this morning. It is all of 56F outside at 10 AM.
Oh dear, the point I was making is that if you predict definitives it’s bound to blow back in your face. There’s a reason why weather predictions are given in terms of % probability. And yes, they should never have released this blatent propaganda piece, if not for moral reasons, then in terms of not looking silly now.
The wider point I was making is the near certainty some people here talk about the future; ie the apparent coming cooling period (ice age according to some!), there’s not much in terms of evidence to support that, yet some people persist. At least they used to back in winter, but have since then been quieter. Making those kind of predictions is in my view similar to the Beeb’s and the Met’s scaremongering bs.
John Brookes says:
June 12, 2011 at 4:44 am
“Thinking about a post about the heat in the US? Or does that not interest this site?”
I think bad judgement about climate and weather must be contagious. There’s so much of it around. It’s June for heavens sake. June is a WARM month in the Northern hemisphere. (Has something to do with the solstice I’m told). You’d be hard put to find a spot in North America outside the Arctic that doesn’t occasionally approach or exceed 38C (100F) sometimes in June. It is currently 58F in Burlington, VT at 10:00am and I’m thinking of putting on a sweater. Some other temperatures:
New York 62F
Washington DC 81F
Chicago 56F
Dallas 82F
Denver 57F
Sacramento 52F
Looks like a typical June morning to me. Maybe a bit on the cool side. But it’s hot in DC and Dallas? News bulletin. It’s usually #$&@! hot in both those benighted places in the warm months.
“nature . . . makes bozos of the BBC”
Come now, Anthony – give credit where credit is due.
The BBC doesn’t need any help in that regard – they make bozos of themselves. A lot.
I am writing this on a Sunday morning in Toronto. The wind is blowing, it is overcast and the official temp at the airport is 15C. With the wind blowing it feels a whole lot colder. This entire spring, except for the usual anomalous overly hot one or two day jaunt, it is has been WET, WET, WET and colder than I can recall a spring in many years. Everything is very green, so nature is happy. But enough already with the damned cold and damp. Give me some global warming please over southern Ontario…..
Has anyone been tracking the jet stream? Maybe this is why it is so damned cool over large parts of N.A…..at a time when it is usually very warm.
Funny stuff. Snow is a thing of the past. The fact is, the northern hemisphere’s snow extent has increased over the last 20 years. http://suyts.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/image5.png. Last night, I trended the last thirty years for North America, http://suyts.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/image_thumb7.png?w=829&h=499…… damn beer! I wanted to do twenty to compare, but it can be easily discerned by comparing the two graphs that Eurasia is increasing in snow extent too……….. oh heck…… I’ll just do it in a few……
John Brookes says:
June 12, 2011 at 4:44 am
Thinking about a post about the heat in the US? Or does that not interest this site?
You have been listening too much to the US media, which ios all based on the East coast, thus the US weather is always whatever it happens to be in New York.
Here on the West coast, we still have record snow-packs, and a good chance that they won’t completely melt before the next lot begins to fall.
Highest temperatures we have seen (and its been rare) has been in the 70’s. Yesterday saw 71!!!
Portland had its annual Rose Festival with no roses, because all plants are running WEEKS late due to the cold.
So, go ahead and tell us all about that heat in the US (just don;t forget to mention that its restricted to a relatively small area).
“they make bozos of themselves. A lot”
On our money.
A totally taxpayer/licence-payer funded far-left/green/communist organisation.
Communism never “went away”, it just morhed into “green”
To be fair, we shouldn’t criticize someone who puts a trendline on a historic temperature curve and projects ad infunitum. Obviously, they are irrecoverably ignorant to reality and deserve our simpathy.
Alan Ogden (June 12, 2011 at 5:09 am)
Yeah – I’ve been following the plowing of Going-to-the-Sun Road in Glacier NP. I have huge sympathies for the crews and what they are facing this year. The photos are unbelieveable.
http://diggingintheclay.wordpress.com/2011/06/12/going-slowly-on-going-to-the-sun-road/
“suddenly, this week, in summer no less, nature decides that snowfalls won’t be a thing of the past after all”
Another beautiful theory slain by an ugly fact.
Conversely, Murray Grainger is correct: the fact that snowy Snowdon lacks camels is affirmation of the merit of the Aussie proposal to shoot (“humanely”, of course) all camels so as to end AGW …
I live pretty close to Snowdon and the amount of snow on there has more to do with wind direction than temperature. If the wind, and the snow, comes from the north then Snowdon is effectively in the shadow of a range of 3,000 foot peaks to the north (The Glyder Range – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyderau) and that is where the snow mainly falls. From memory, that is mostly what has happened over the last few years. If the snow comes from the S.E. or S.W. then Snowdon will be more heavily covered. There are days when the Glyders are covered down to about 1,000 feet and Snowdon is not. Mount Elidir can have snow on the north facing side and none at all on the south side where it faces Snowdon across the valley. Research which takes snow cover on Mount Snowdon in isolation is effectively meaningless! But that won’t stop research with an agenda…
@John Brookes
Take this as a bit of anectdotal evidence on the temperatures in the US, I live in Georgia and Missouri both of which had unusually long and cold winters and meteorological springs this past year. Summer in the meteorological sense is only a couple of weeks old in Missouri with spring temperature lasting until late May. Georgia was a bit closer to normal starting summer temps in early May but, this is only southern Georgia the northern sections were much like Missouri. And as far as the heat is concerned its no where close to abnormal given we are used to temps in the triple digits which I have yet to see.
Verity Jones says:
June 12, 2011 at 8:42 am
>Yeah – I’ve been following the plowing of Going-to-the-Sun Road in Glacier NP.
I went through there in 1974 too, probably July 2nd. (BTW, thank you for linking to my comment in you Massive Drifts post.) It would have been really neat but tough ride, but the park service decided the narrow road was too dangerous for bicyclists and banned them. When I was there, the hue and cry had forced them to reconsider and they were going to open it in the mornings, but not for a week or two.
So I crossed it in the back of a pickup truck driven by a drunk indian. Haven’t been back to take the pictures I missed.
Visited Kerry, Ireland a few weeks ago.
Lots of semi tropical plant species that thrived over the last 30 years are now brown skeletons. I doubt that there are many cordyline plants still living in the entire UK.
The jets are shifting equatorward again with an oceanic induced weaker ENSO cycle and a solar induced more negative AO.
I saw the shift start to occur back in 2000 and it is now digging in deep.
We currently have a strongly negative AO again during the peak of northern hemisphere solar insolation.
Something is up and it is not AGW.
Caesar: What’s the weather like in Rome centurion?
Centurian: Hail Caesar!
🙂
The original story muddles ‘snow’ and ‘hail’ which are entirely different anyway.
The Snowdon picture shows a layer of hailstones which fell during a burst of thundery precipitation.
Hailstones are familiar enough in thunderstorms almost anywhere in the world I would think.
The original story does mention ‘snow falling’ after the hail storm chilled the air enough.
I has been a chilly week for June but nothing much out of the ordinary.
Wucash says:
June 12, 2011 at 3:47 am
To be fair, in 2007 trends showed it to be true. Since then though, snow has recovered world-wide. I guess there’s a lesson for everyone here and on the other side of the debate; weather and climate are too difficult to predict because they are unstable in nature.
Saying that, who knows? Maybe in 2022 all the snow will be gone. You can’t say without a doubt that won’t happen.
_____
Actually, there is a huge distinction between projecting future climate and predicting weather that some people fail to fully grasp. Through ice cores, tree rings, ocean sediments, stalactites, etc. we can put together a pretty good picture of past climates, and while the climate can be subject to “black swan” events, such as a volcanic eruption, comet strike, etc. We can look at cycles such as the Milankovitch cycle and see the patterns of climate, and more remarkable is that those Milankovitch cycles line up so well with what was found in the deepest ice cores going back 800,000. Weather, on the other hand, is far more unpredictable and variable. Think about it…we know what Milankovitch cycle the earth was in 100,000 years ago, but we can’t tell you exactly what the high temperature will be in London in 7 days.
But the essential truth to take away from this is…don’t use the weather to predict the climate.
Even the year after the 2007 article, I remember reading about the weather delays building the new summit building.
This will do – http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/north_west/7513155.stm says in part:
Nice to see things did get finished and used.
BTW, at New Hampshire’s Mount Washington, which also has a cog railway, there’s a chance of snow in the forecast. From http://www.mountwashington.org/ :
16:25 Sat Jun 11th
Cold, Windy, and Rainy Summit
While I will not say this very often, I think today has been a good day not to be out on the trails. Other than watching the large cap cloud pour over us into the Great Gulf early this morning (as Mike mentioned below), it has been pretty crummy hiking weather all day. The Summit has been in the clouds with minimal visibility, frequent rain showers, and temperatures hovering around the mid-30s. [1 -2 °C] Walking around the Sherman Adams building and working down in the Observatory gift shop, I have not come across too many hikers with smiles on their faces. In fact, for the first time since I’ve been working in the gift shop, I think we sold more winter gloves, socks, and rain gear than Marty [Marty is a cat that lives at the weather observatory] memorabilia! Something tells me hot chocolate sales were at a record high upstairs as well. For those hikers who are braving the weather out there (tomorrow’s forecast looks pretty similar to today’s), make sure you have proper footwear for wet rocks and bring enough clothing for potential hypothermic conditions.
Stephen Rosenman – Summit Intern
R. Gates says:
June 12, 2011 at 9:32 am
Actually, the ice core data does not line up that well with the Milankovitch Cycles. At best, it’s somewhere around 65%. There are too many instances of the Interglacials coming in 2 lesser waves, which nobody has bothered to address.
Why?
Wucash says:
June 12, 2011 at 7:11 am
The wider point I was making is the near certainty some people here talk about the future; ie the apparent coming cooling period (ice age according to some!)…Making those kind of predictions is in my view similar to the Beeb’s and the Met’s scaremongering bs.
Ignoring your little straw man for the moment, only a complete idiot would compare comments made on a blog to the avalanche of irresponsible propaganda scaremongering perpetrated by the MSM during the past couple of decades.
With regard to cooling, there is certainly far more of a basis for prediction of a period of cooling in coming decades than there is for warming. Here’s the kicker, though: the Warmist agenda involves a complete restructuring and even dismantling of our way of producing energy, forcing energy prices up, and harming economies worldwide all based on their alarmist predictions. That is not science, but ideology. Skeptics, or climate rationalists on the other hand, are simply interested in the truth about climate, which can only be arrived at through proper scientific principles.
Stephen Wilde (June 12, 2011 at 9:14 am)
“Visited Kerry, Ireland a few weeks ago.
Lots of semi tropical plant species that thrived over the last 30 years are now brown skeletons. I doubt that there are many cordyline plants still living in the entire UK.”
Ones local to me are dead too (http://diggingintheclay.wordpress.com/2011/03/20/casualties-of-cold/ ) however I know of some that survived due to microclimate condtions near where some friends live. I have thought it would be a fun thing to do to map them with a GPS when I go to visit them in a few weeks time. If there are enough live/dead in the locality it could make for an interesting temperature map when compared with some of the local temperature sensors
3×2 says:
June 12, 2011 at 3:56 am
Here in Yorkshire it’s bloody cold and bloody wet (and has been since early may) so I have no idea which counties are apparently baking in the hot sun.
As I can verify being a Yorkshireman myself, it is indeed “bloody cold and bloody wet!” Still, all this rain will do wonders for the lush greenery round here. I love so-called “miserable weather” as I’m very pale skinned (I burn easily) and can’t abide hot weather. If this is one of the warmest and driest springs in memory (as the BBC tells us) then I’d REALLY love to see a cold, wet one.
Knuts says:
June 12, 2011 at 4:38 am
“The BBC (amongst others) have also been telling us how its been the driest Spring here for 100 years and drought orders are coming into force and were all going to starve to death with crop failures. What they fail to mention is that the Met Office decided to move the goalposts by declaring that Spring now starts on March 1st and ends June 1st, its currently tipping it down here in the middle of the UK.”
Astounding! Has the BBC reported this? Let us all pray that the lot of them reap what they sow.
Snowbird snowpack 525 percent of normal
http://www.iceagenow.com/Snowbird_snowpack_525_percent_of_normal.htm
John Brookes says:
June 12, 2011 at 4:44 am
“Thinking about a post about the heat in the US? Or does that not interest this site?”
I have been watching it very closely. The story is a total yawn. The several places that I have lived in the East are experiencing unexceptional temperatures. That includes the supposed hotspots of Raleigh and Richmond. UHI effects I cannot speak for.
R. Gates says:
June 12, 2011 at 9:32 am
“Actually, there is a huge distinction between projecting future climate and predicting weather that some people fail to fully grasp.”
Can you explicate this in ordinary language without appeal to esoteric theory? If you can, I will most certainly doff my hat to you. If you cannot, I will most certainly understand that you do not know what you are talking about.
Don K says:
June 12, 2011 at 7:20 am
“I think bad judgement about climate and weather must be contagious. There’s so much of it around. It’s June for heavens sake. June is a WARM month in the Northern hemisphere.”
There is a powerful psychological effect from the Left’s propaganda, the Left especially including the MSM. Today is cooler here in Central Florida. Yesterday we hit 90 degrees F. June temperatures here are expected to be at least 90. I have to remind people where we live, what the temperature is, and what season it is.
@Bruce
I disagree. Even though warming hasn’t been as severe as some people would have liked, the planet has still been warming. The truth is we don’t know how much warmer it’s going to get. We were very close to warmest year on record a year back, and even the cold rebound hasn’t been extreme enough to bring the running average back to ’79 levels. Trends are what they are. What I dislike about MSM is tying warming (then cooling and snow ironically enough) to carbon dioxide, and the whole agenda of changing the world you mentioned.
As for comparison between people who for example proclaim the new ice age and MSM – they both have agendas. They use a medium to spread their unfounded BS about. One has more reach and money and power than the other but the intent is the same.
Looks to me like the heat wave in the South has moved on, with the US returning to cool Spring conditions:
http://www.intelliweather.net/imagery/intelliweather/tempcity_nat_120x90.jpg
Snowpacks are not melting like they should be in the West and North.
Will they melt (making an awful mess of summer) or will they last out until Fall?
Somehow, for me, R. Gates continual attempt to divorce weather from climate, ends up making the term “climate” meaningless. Length of summers, frost dates, what plants will survive, those for me define climate. Climate changes. Weather changes. There is no such thing as a permanent “climate.”
John Brookes says: “Thinking about a post about the heat in the US? Or does that not interest this site?”
It’s summer. It gets hot in the summer. When it gets cold in the summer, that’s something to remark about. Meanwhile, here in California, we’re still running the furnace to get warm, waiting for the Svensmark clouds to blow away.
R. Gates says: ” Through ice cores, tree rings, ocean sediments, stalactites, etc. we can put together a pretty good picture of past climates…”
Not from tree rings, unless you successfully hide the decline by tacking on data from other sources. Tree ring growth is affected by mineral exhaustion, humidity, precipitation, microclimate, fungal and insect attack, local variations in albedo, CO2, and Bambi’s arboreal migrations. Worse, the response of tree rings is not linear with temperature, having inversions is some species. Forget about tree rings. They only work in Michael Mann’s dreams.
The word in Welsh for July is “Gorffennaf” This roughly translated mean “the end of summer” I often wondered about this as a youth, but with the 4th cold wet summer in row ( where exactly is the UK drought?) I’m beginning to understand why the ancients noted that July heralded the end of Summer and start of Autumn. By the way R.Gates, how many bad summers from a weather perspective does it take to equate to a climate issue? I may not agree with all your posts, but you are a real hero for sticking to your guns and challenging peoples ideas. If you were a sceptic on a AGW site you would probably get harassed and called a Denier, but hopefully here you get treated reasonably well most of the time. Keep it up!
The story continues, in the Northern Ireland Edition
http://autonomousmind.wordpress.com/2011/06/12/the-story-continues-northern-ireland-edition/
ann r says:
June 12, 2011 at 12:50 pm
You’re right, climate never sits still.
Neither does the Weather.
It’s a stormy relationship at times 🙂
A draught has been declared here in lincolnshire and there has been little rain in the spring but I admit that it has just just stopped raining as I type this.I don’t think that the rain that we have just had is anything that we have not seen earlier in spring and to call this the end of the draught would be premature,it depends what happens in June/July.The AO and the NAO have been positive this spring and are not strongly negative now,The jet stream forecasts don’t look that unusual westerly winds from the Atlantic have not being blocked
To my knowledge no mountain in the UK (even Ben Nevis, a mere 4600ft) has a permanent ‘snow cap’. By July and August there is seldom any snow left except occasionally in north facing corries. I have visted the Cairngorms in Scotland since a child (and that is more than 60 years ago) and remember my father occasionally pointing out the odd tiny patch of snow on Ben Avon (weighing in at ~4400ft) as if it were surprising.
I’ve just realised that my last comment is what the IPCC would regard as a ‘peer reviewed’ paper on AGW in the UK so I’ll await its appearance in their new report.
ann r says:
June 12, 2011 at 12:50 pm
‘Somehow, for me, R. Gates continual attempt to divorce weather from climate, ends up making the term “climate” meaningless. Length of summers, frost dates, what plants will survive, those for me define climate. Climate changes. Weather changes. There is no such thing as a permanent “climate.”’
Very well said. The secret of it all is that for Warmista there is only the great cloud of manmade CO2 that embraces Earth and is their sky god. For Warmista, climate is that CO2 cloud. They have no way to make a connection between their sky god in their Gaia Model and anything that humans on Earth might experience.
R. Gates says:
June 12, 2011 at 9:32 am
“[…] But the essential truth to take away from this is…don’t use the weather to predict the climate.”
Tell that to the MSM for me, will ya? It gets warm for a few thousand years, glaciers retreat, and all of a sudden, we’re all gonna fry by 2100 and snow will be a thing of the past.
The Earth’s climate never repeats exactly. It varies from snowball Earth to a global tropical paradise with all climate states inbetween getting their day in the sun. Earth’s climate is on a path that started from a state when the Earth was formed to some state that will end with the end of the earth. Periodically, we get stuck in little cycles that last a few million to many millions of years. Then some terrestial or extraterrestrial event kicks Earth’s climate-can a little further down the road. We should enjoy our time in this pleasant little 10,000+ year stretch in the history of Earth, eh?
Tell that to the Warmists. ;>)
By the way Warmists used the lack of snow to make predictions about the future lack of snow and they FAILED. Ski resorts are no longer a thing of the past. How many more years of contradictory evidence do you need man??? or woman. ;O)
Hey, check this out.
You can’t make this sh*t up my friend. Haaaa haaaaaaa!
Failed AGW Predictions And Forecasts
http://www.c3headlines.com/predictionsforecasts/
And Stephen Connor did not know what he was talking about when he said:
Unless of course human history started 12,000 years ago. Below is evidence of an ice-free Arctic ocean during the Holocene.
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.quascirev.2010.08.016
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2007AGUFMPP11A0203F
http://geology.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/21/3/227
‘Around the UK this week counties have been declaring drought conditions after one of warmest and driest springs in memory. ‘
Yet here ‘downunder’, our autumn was the coldest on record and the 4th wettest on record. Sort of averages out the global climate/weather pattern.
Richard S Courtney says:
June 12, 2011 at 4:11 am : Thank you, Richard for taking care of the light work here. I was just about to suggest that Wucash go away and read for a year or two before returning to enlighten us. Maybe a year or five.
The Bangor University research period largely coincided with the NAO being in a strong positive phase. This brings mild Atlantic-type winters to the British Isles and is responsible for many of the recent changes in timing of biological events in Britain that are claimed to be caused by ‘global warming’. The Snowdonia region did, indeed, experience a phase of relatively warm winters in the 1990s and early 2000s but that has been reversed since 2009. In spring 2010 many of the high ranges on and around Snowdon still held much snow cover well down their slopes into May, according to a friend who has made annual bird surveys up there for the past 30 years.
Apropos the Snowdon snow picture heading this news item, I recall seeing the 3,000 ft Carneddau range, north of Snowdon, capped with thick fresh snow on June 2nd in 1975.
‘We have been studying the snows of Snowdon for 14 years’. Bangor University.
When a cycle is 1000 years or more 14 years is too short a time to get any idea as to what will happen in 11 years time.
Who are these so-called scientists at Bangor? Not a good advert for the university I`m afraid. Just shows that the `herd` mentality is alive and well there.
Also: BBC Wales weather keeps on telling us that this has been the warmest spring on record! Just goes to show the tyranny of the `average` and the unawareness of those who use it. Mostly the air temperatures have been on the cool side even during the warmest days.
Someone throw me a lifeline
I’m going down for the third time
And I’m snowblind, snowblind, snowblind
John Marshall says:
June 13, 2011 at 2:58 am
‘We have been studying the snows of Snowdon for 14 years’. Bangor University.
—
Maybe Bangor University has a related research project on mountain erosion…
“We have been studying mountain erosion since last week and haven’t observed ANYTHING noticeable. We therefore conclude that Mt. Snowdon has never changed in the past 10,000 years. We, of course, will need to secure additional funds to keep this project on-going, in order to verify our present results.”
/sarc
don penman says:
June 12, 2011 at 3:00 pm
“A draught has been declared here in lincolnshire”
Please someone save me from Yellow-bellies! (My wife is one)! Don, its drought and use a Big L for Lincolnshire! Tsk! 😉
Ian George says:
June 12, 2011 at 7:15 pm
‘Around the UK this week counties have been declaring drought conditions after one of warmest and driest springs in memory. ‘
Only in the south-east. In the north and west it has been a decidedly cool and very wet spring in the UK.
[reply] It’s been very dry on the east side of the Pennines TB-mod
There was no sign of loss of snow this past season.
Huth says:
June 13, 2011 at 8:25 am
March and April was very dry in most areas of the UK
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/anomacts/2011/3/2011_3_Rainfall_Anomaly_1971-2000.gif
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/anomacts/2011/4/2011_4_Rainfall_Anomaly_1971-2000.gif
Only dry/very dry in SE with a few exceptions during May.
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/anomacts/2011/5/2011_5_Rainfall_Anomaly_1971-2000.gif
Overall for Spring it has been very dry in England and Wales. (Spring = March, April and May)
Richard I just had to copy your reply to W#ucash, I was going to do it, but you did it better than I was going to!
Richard S Courtney says:
June 12, 2011 at 4:11 am
Wucash:
I have seen many, many dumb comments on the web, but your above comment at June 12, 2011 at 3:47 am has to be one of the dumbest I have ever seen. It says in total:
“To be fair, in 2007 trends showed it to be true. Since then though, snow has recovered world-wide. I guess there’s a lesson for everyone here and on the other side of the debate; weather and climate are too difficult to predict because they are unstable in nature.
Saying that, who knows? Maybe in 2022 all the snow will be gone. You can’t say without a doubt that won’t happen.”
So, “weather and climate are too difficult to predict because they are unstable in nature”. OK, then why should anybody (e.g. the BBC in thecase discussed here) report such predictions as though they were true?
And, “You can’t say without a doubt that won’t happen”. That is true, but you can’t say without a doubt that it will happen, either. Indeed, you assert that “weather and climate are too difficult to predict”. So, should we worry about the large meteorite that may devastate Manhattan Island next year, and should the BBC publish a prediction that it will strike Manhattan Island merely because “You can’t say without a doubt that won’t happen”?
Richard
I think that many forecasters have predicted that the UK will have an unsettled summer with higher than average rain and I can understand that they would see the recent bad weather as conformation of their prediction.The SST anomalies and SST temperatures of the north Atlantic are a bit cooler than they were a couple of years ago when they were regarded as “certain evidence “ that the world was warming because of co2,the cooling may be because of the recent la nina or it could be that the recent low solar minimum is starting to have an effect on the SST.