EPA Agrees to Limit Emissions From Power Plants, Refineries
From the NY Times: the headline would make it sound like there was some sort of debate going on inside the EPA…
First paragraph: “Threatened with lawsuits from environmental groups, the Obama administration has agreed to issue another round of greenhouse gas limits for both power plants and refineries — this time through a provision of the Clean Air Act that allows U.S. EPA to require pollution controls at both new and existing facilities.”
I’m sure the Obama administration was quaking in its boots under the unrelenting pressure of environmentalists who threatened to rain down lawsuits. At least we know now that the polar bear will not longer be a political pawn in this “power grab”.
You can read the story and get worked up, but, on second thought, why ruin your Christmas.
This is the best news for the Chinese economy since union work rules.
Two more years of high unemployment and low economic activity and Obama is stuffed.
Who needs laws when you can simply and arbitrarily regulate?
“The rules for power plants (pdf) would need to be proposed by July 26, 2011, and finalized by May 26, 2012. Proposed standards for refineries (pdf) would need to be released by Dec. 10, 2011, with a final rule due on Nov. 10, 2012.”
The game is likely to change before they get to the finalized versions.
Beginning of the end of the EPA?
So this is Cap without Trade, by-passing the legislature?
I would suggest all my American friends call their GOP representatives and senators and scream blue murder unless they wake up and stop this undemocratic “lame duck” attempt to cram the whole agenda in before they leave in January.
On a week where much of the US is experiencing fierce winter weather this is insanity. I cannot imagine what they are trying to accomplish. Electric rates are going to go through the roof.
They should shut them all down: I have wood for my stoves and am well defended here in New Hampshire. The US population is due for a shake-out of the weak hands, so we can restart at 1786 levels.
Why are the Republicans NOT stopping this agenda? Because they may well be a part of it after all! It hasn’t taken long for old leopards to show their spots. Just wait until they pass cap and tax next.
Say hello to skyrocketing energy costs, America.
They’ve been pushing a lot of crap through the Christmas holidays so less people will notice.
Thieves in the night.
Here’s a Climate Change Litigation Chart from Lexisnexis that shows all the litigation underway over the past few years. It’s about evenly split between the enviro’s and the rational people. Click on the link given to the PDF. It’s very informative. http://www.lexisnexis.com/COMMUNITY/ENVIRONMENTAL-CLIMATECHANGELAW/blogs/environmentallawandclimatechangeblog/archive/2010/09/27/Climate-Change-Litigation-Chart.aspx
Also, here’s some additional info regarding the immediate rule; also from LexisNexis: http://www.lexisnexis.com/Community/environmental-climatechangelaw/blogs/globalclimatechangespecialpamphletseriespoweredbylexisnexis/archive/2009/12/18/EPA_2700_s-Mandatory-Greenhouse-Gas-Reporting-Rule.aspx .
Hi,
This is getting way out of hand. I don’t think the powers that be will be happy until they have us all sitting in the dark, and for those that are experiencing really cold weather at the moment, freezing to death.
How about some nuclear plants? NO GHG emissions, and they emit less radiation than a coal plant (if a nuclear plant emitted the radiation that a coal plant does due to natural uranium in the coal, it would be shut down).
The EPA is doing its part to put brakes on our economy in order to help the developing economies of the world catch up.
Gotta love it when our government is infested with politicians who have foreign interests over ours…
Can’t wait for Ms. Jackson’s appearances at the GOP controlled congressional hearings…the EPA’s explanation of how CO2 became a pollutant should be entertaining- are they selling tickets?
If the ~ 120 ppm of carbon dioxide placed in the atmosphere as the result of human activity is a “pollutant”, then surely the ~270 ppm of carbon dioxide placed in the atmosphere by Gaia is also a pollutant. If CO2 in the atmosphere is a “nuisance”, surely that must include all of the CO2. If not, how do we determine how much of the CO2 is a nuisance?
Shall we then expect the US Department of Justice file Holder vs. Gaia?
What is BACT for Gaia? How much change in Gaia would trigger NSPS?
Enquiring minds want to know.
“The existence of an artificially cheap energy system leads to an economy which grows to rapidly relative to what it would be if we had efficient pricing and a full cost ”
~1:50 in the following video:
I found the video from this site:
http://www.pricingcarbon.org/speakers.html
I wish them good luck.
Fortunately the solution is at hand!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12051167
Another reason costs for consumers will rise. Maybe Environmentalists will finally understand our concerns when their children can no longer afford electricity. As we are 100% off the electric grid and don’t use natural gas, it is reassuring to know that our family will always have a place to come and stay warm, not freeze in the dark.
We have similar,…lets be gracious, ‘Individuals’ in New Zealand. Whose solution to Human suffering, …is eliminating Humans so they don’t suffer.
I can imagine the powerhouse of the Worlds economy, continuing simply tickety-boo using recycled tofu, soyabean oil and hemp as an industrial fuel source, while China and India buy up our cheap New Zealand Coal to run their 100% particulate emission power plants.
I suggest Ms. Jackson be investigated from premeditated genocide of the US of A and its former economy, throw congress in there too.
Just a Christmas wish….
Might happen,…
…you never know….
I predict that next year the EPA will ban CO2 from all soda pop and carbonated drinks. But if Pepsi and Coke are willing to bow down at Lisa Jackson’s feet and donate enough to the democratic party, she will grant them a waiver from the ban and allow them to stay in business. For saving the soft drink industry Jackson will then become known as the “Queen of Pop”.
They will have to buy CARBON SHARES……
Anyone interested in leaving a comment for the GOP:
America Speaking Out:
http://www.americaspeakingout.com/
The concept is pretty good, a Reference Page to fix AB32 on WUWT is something I’d be willing to help with.
Folks, I’ve been watching & waiting for this for a while….Pres. Obama did warn Congress that, if they didn’t act, he would. Here’s the US EPA website news release, and this has other links for your review:
http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/d0cf6618525a9efb85257359003fb69d/d2f038e9daed78de8525780200568bec!OpenDocument
Don’t let this ruin your holiday, but please realize that the USEPA comes armed with a Supreme Court ruling, and unwinding this mess will not be easy, as all federal government components are in on this together. DOE, DOD, DHS, DAg, DOT, DInt, NASA, you name it, this is like a quarterback sneak over the goal line….everybody is lined up and pushing in unison!!
When contacting political representatives (Senate, House etc.), use their fax machine. It is by far the best way to get attention from the staff. Address your fax to “Chief of Staff, Rep./Senator XYZ”.
Happy Holiday Wishes to you all, Charles the DrPH
Wow – those pictures of “Death Trains” are scary!!!
On the other hand, Lisa Jackson is scarier. Much scarier.
I miss the old days, when the EPA was an idealistic possible force for good, instead of the cynical, politically driven force for evil it has become.
Lisa Jackson: These are garments, silly peasants. Garments were invented by the human race as a protection against the cold. Once purchased, they may be used indefinitely for the purpose for which they are intended. Coal burns. Coal is momentary and coal is costly. There will be no more coal burned in this office today, is that quite clear, you rabble?
Rabble: Yes, Sir.
Lisa Jackson: Now please get back to work before I am forced to conclude your services in the new economy are no longer required.
This all sounds very familiar. What about all the people that can hardly afford electricity now? Are there no prisons? No workhouses? Let them die and decrease the surplus population?
I’m just glad my local power company is expanding their nuclear plant. The plant is getting one of the old Three Mile Island reactors, which caused the anti-nuclear, anti-progress, pro-ignorance environuts to go crazy; but fortunately for us, they ran out of money. The plant is also seeking to install two new reactors. My electricity costs went from $0.098 per KWh to $0.096 per KWh. And since the nuclear plant is expanding that provides electricity to me, I don’t expect a big jump in electricity costs.
Bring on the defunding of the EPA. These Left wing wack nuts will not be happy until they set us back 200 years!!!!
Remember, most things are treated as a debate in a vacuum until it hits the pocket books of the populace. We may just have to feel this pain point until it hurts, which is stupid as all get out…
Since H2O is the dominant GHG, water vapor is the next EPA target. Hmm … maybe a lawsuit demanding exactly that would be educational!
kramer says:
December 23, 2010 at 12:09 pm
““The existence of an artificially cheap energy system leads to an economy which grows to rapidly relative to what it would be if we had efficient pricing and a full cost ”
~1:50 in the following video:
”
Interesting. She correctly points out that higher energy prices leads to less demand of labor (but uses different words than me; saying it would lead to less hours worked per year, which is economically the same thing). Calling the energy in America “artificially cheap” is of course a distorted worldview – as if energy naturally has to come with taxes that are twice as high as the value of the energy (in Europe, tax on gasoline is usually about 70% of the price at the pump). So, she has a kind of a working brain, but one where up is down and down is up.
Well, the House will pass a bill in January taking CO2 regulation away from EPA. The Senate with15 or so Dems (Manchin from WV, Rockefeller WVa. Webb Va., Nelson Neb, Nelson Fla. Landrieu La. Durbin Ill. etc etc) jumping on board, will make it law, then Barry O will veto it an demand cap and trade. Good bye Barry in 2012 when he loses Pennsylvania, Virginia, Ohio, Wisc Iowa even possibly Ill..
And more impacts from our friends who “are here to help.”
http://www.edn.com/article/511914-Energy_Star_turning_into_black_hole_technology_companies_fear.php
From yesterday:
“”I think we’re going to have a very amiable and frankly enjoyable time addressing these things,” said a confident Republican Senator James Inhofe”
Ouch! Popcorn. Get some. Could be a three bagger.
(via Tom Nelson)
Surprisingly even-handed for the Grey Lady.
And while readers here already knew, how many of the Times’ readers even now noticed “But while carbon capture could someday become the norm for power plants and refineries, EPA has admitted that it isn’t a viable technology.” Yep – EPA knows the tech does not exist (at least in any practical form) but will fine those who do not install it.
The Irish government just published a Climate Change bill for consideration.
They propose 2050 emissions be 80% below 1990 levels. I almost feel like laughing.
http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2010/12/23/climate-change-response-bill-2010/
Coincidently, a new carbon trading business has just started up in Kahleefoahnya. Or is it a coincidence?
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/dec/17/local/la-me-1217-climate-cap-trade-20101217
Lets hope your SETI programme comes up with something soon.
Time to mobilize the Tea Parties nationwide. There will be no rule by bureaucratic fiat. March on their regional offices. Inundate your Congressmen with letters and calls. Get the appropriate committees to go after the EPA budget with a machete.
kramer says:
It’s actually much worse than that.
The EPA is run by “Czar” Carol Browner, a Commissioner of the Socialist International, which advocates world government as it’s stated goal. And as we see, even without world government, the U.S.A. is already being assessed $100 Billion – per year – as “reparations” for “climate change”. Naturally, this is only the beginning.
Under a world government, where each nation gets an equal vote, the wealth earned by the U.S. will quickly be taxed away to nothing. This is not a wild-eyed rant, but a sober reporting of what is going on right now, and what has led up to the present situation.
I can’t access youtube from work, but a YouTube search for “History of Political Correctness” shows that the EPA is implementing its part of the plan (and so is the FCC with net neutrality, which is simply the first step in eventually restricting of electronic free speech via government agency decree). The basics of the plan were put in place, not by the hippie generation of the sixties, but prior to WWI. The goal, as you might suspect, is totalitarian world government.
Congress has abdicated its legislative responsibilities to unelected appointees and “czars”, who now legislate by decree. This was kept under control in the past, by former Presidents who accepted that straightforward and uniform regulation is necessary. But under President Obama, these czars are being actively used to subvert the rule of law by legislating new laws without a vote of the Legislative branch.
The unscientific demonizing of co2 by a Commissioner of the S.I. was a watershed, with no substance behind it at all. Co2 is emitted naturally, in huge quantities compared to the very small amounts emitted by humans. But the Commissioner decreed co2 to be a pollutant, in order to take control of those emitting it. She is now doing exactly that, as this article shows.
Next year will tell us if the new majority in Congress has what it takes to stand up to this usurping of their Constitutional authority.
Merry Christmas!
The gutting of the EPA will take several years. Within the next two it will lose its teeth. During the following two it will be stuffed and put on display in the lobby of the Tulip Bulb Museum.
As they like to say on SDA….”the world is run by crazy people”.
Many (most?) of the regulations the EPA enforces make sense (e.g. RCRA, NPDES, CWA)……but this one act of legislation by regulation will shred their credibilty.
This insanity must be stopped by discrediting the endangerment finding.
“Why are the Republicans NOT stopping this agenda?”
Err…because they don’t officially take over the House until January…
I guess there goes the EPA’s funding!
Nobody else stated the obvious, so I will:
“Those whom the Gods wish to destroy, they first make mad.”
How comes that what we have considered 20 years ago as stupid green dreams is now brought to action even by conservative governments?
In Germany, under conservatice chancellor Merkel, we have
– potentially poisoning products in out living rooms (energy saving lightbulbs)
– special waste on our rooftops (solar cells)
– thousands of windmills damaging our landscape
and all of it with extreme costs and of course zero effect on climate.
Even worse, online edition of German conservative newspaper WELT, is censoring readers’ comments like in a communist country.
Each hint (not even a link) to “1010 video” was removed within 10 or 20 minutes.
Ridiculous, but not funny anymore.
However, all of you a Merry Christmas.
Tracking back a bit, I followed the National Ass’n of Wheat Growers “related” link above, and saw their resolution a year ago was to oppose EPA regs. http://www.wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/04/national-wheat-growers-association-reverses-policy-on-climate-change-opposes-epa-regulation/
But the link to that regulation is now dead, and they have a new president. Hmmm. So I wrote that past president Karl Scronce as follows:
It will be interesting to see if he responds.
The question asked above was why Republicans don’t come out and “stop this agenda”.
Two reasons–first, there is no mechanism right now for stopping the EPA once it decides it wants to do something under the Clean Air Act or the Superfund Law, outside of action in court.
Second, why should they? This is the best voting issue yet presented by Obama and the Democrats to the Republicans. Better than healthcare. Americans, in general, don’t believe this stuff. More than many in the rest of the world, American voters of all stripes know when they are being conned, and when there are greedy hands in their pockets feeling for their wallets.
Next year will tell us if the new majority in Congress has what it takes to stand up to this usurping of their Constitutional authority.
don’t hold your breath. if the last 200 years are any indication of a trend, things are not going to change.
congress does nothing it is required to do, and reams of things is not authorised to do.
Next they’ll be regulating water vapor. Defund the EPA now!
Rocky;
Don’t overplay your hand!
“The EPA is run by “Czar” Carol Browner, a Commissioner of the Socialist International, which advocates world government as it’s stated goal. And as we see, even without world government, the U.S.A. is already being assessed $100 Billion – per year – as “reparations” for “climate change”. Naturally, this is only the beginning.”
That ‘assessment’ is a) a global total, not the US figure, and b) not agreed to in more than principle; there is no enforcement or detail laid out — and it is very unlikely ever to get either.
Dear, GOP/Tea Party
Please defund the EPA. Take away 100% of their budget.
Thank You.
My Christmas, such as it is, was already ruined by some scum-suckers who are publishing and selling my books without paying me for them. So I might as well read the article, too.
“You can read the story and get worked up, but, on second thought, why ruin your Christmas.”
Too late, Ryan.
All this nonsense will end once the Federal government goes truly bust. At some point all fiat money systems go belly up so it is just a matter of time. Lots of pain and wasted money for us working stiffs before that happens unfortunately.
Marry Christmas anyway!!
Rocky Horror,
Yes I know about her connections with socialist international.
On a related note, I’m pretty sure I’m the one that got the ball rolling on outing her association with Socialist International because I posted this information in the comments section in a Washington Times article on her sometime near the end of ’08. I also posted this information in a number of political forums prior to Dec of ’08.
Joseph Stiglitz (formally of the Clinton admin), Tony Blair and Gordon Brown are a few more well know people who are also members of this organization.
How I’d love to see a wikileaks posting of their internal documents…
Obama’s insidious plan is working. He’s flooded the U.S. economy with trillions of dollars, creating inflation. Oil prices are rising right on cue, even in the dead of winter when oil demand is low. Oil price crossed $91 per barrel today, up from $80 just a few weeks ago.
Radical enviros require high prices for oil, gasoline, and electricity to obtain their goals. When CO2 is regulated and taxed, electricity prices will skyrocket, just as Obama promised. Electric cars are not economic until gasoline reaches approximately $4 per gallon – and we are at $3 today. Wind and solar power are not economic until electricity reaches 20 to 25 cents per kWh, and Obama will celebrate when that day happens.
Meanwhile, rational countries are using as much oil, natural gas, and coal as possible.
Why even bother having elections when you can just have a King instead?!
ARRRRRRGGGGHHH
The very first sentence in the constitution, following the preamble, says this:
“All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.”
Nowhere does the constitution authorize congress to delegate it’s legislative power.
If the EPA creates rules which carry the force of law then they are creating law. That is clearly a power given exclusively to congress. So the EPAs regulations are blatantly unconstitutional. If this is allowed to stand then America will be governed by unelected bureaucrats instead of elected representatives. We must not let this happen.
One man fiat rule … cool. Kagan wrote a Harvard Law Review paper … It was called “Presidential Administration”, president ruling by regulatory fiat. It’s how two bit tin horns dictators do it. Jobs, who needs jobs. we already have the highest corporate tax rates in the world. So we can afford a hoax.
So just cut off the money, see how far that goes.
I guess all pretense of the lie of AGW is kaput now.
I posted this link a long while back but here it is again.
Justin Rowlatt(Ethical Man) and John Podesta.
March 2009.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/ethicalman/2009/03/obama_will_circumvent_congress_to_limit_us_emissio.html
MrCPhysics
“there is no mechanism right now for stopping the EPA once it decides it wants to do something under the Clean Air Act or the Superfund Law, outside of action in court.”
Surely there is a mechanism. If the legislature can’t actually dissolve the EPA because a bill to dissolve it would attract a presidential veto, can it not be stripped of resources? After all, your legislature still can control the ‘supply’ of funds, can’t it?
“This is the best voting issue yet presented by Obama and the Democrats to the Republicans. Better than healthcare. Americans, in general, don’t believe this stuff. More than many in the rest of the world, American voters of all stripes know when they are being conned, and when there are greedy hands in their pockets feeling for their wallets.”
So, are the Republicans going to tell the American voters that this is a con? Here in UK we don’t have any party in our legislature who is prepared to stand for this phoney nonsense. I keep thinking that someone somewhere will blow the whistle on this scam and tell the British public what they’ve long suspected, but we’re still waiting. Don’t hold your breath.
In the end Obama is helping China… and ensuring the next depression -economic not meteo- will remain well centred on the US. Smart politics no doubt…
Roger Sowell says on December 23, 2010 at 2:45 pm
So, an interesting question is: Cui bono.
Could it be that certain pension funds have high exposure to renewables and other industries expected to benefit from high oil prices, high electricity prices, etc, but which will fail in their absence? Are we being taxed to bail out certain union pension funds?
“FergalR says:
December 23, 2010 at 1:16 pm
The Irish government just published a Climate Change bill for consideration.
They propose 2050 emissions be 80% below 1990 levels. I almost feel like laughing.”
the way the Irish economy is shaping up, it looks a done deal :))
what’s there to get worked up about? Congress created the EPA and gave it a number of statutes, including the clean air act, to administer. The Supreme Court concluded that statute required the EPA to make an assessment about GHGs. The EPA (an agency of experts who have competed heavily to earn their positions) concluded that GHGs pose a threat. Once they made that endangerment assessment, they don’t have any discretion – the endangerment assessment automatically triggers certain requirements under the Clean Air Act. It’s Lisa Jackson’s job to follow the statutory mandate. Challenge the initial endangerment assessment or challenge congress to amend the clean air act, but this is not controversial – to suggest she/the EPA should have acted differently is to suggest that federal agencies should pick and choose when to follow their congressional mandates – it’s the executive’s job to implement legislation, not create it.
Roger, With the price hikes in rare earth metals and export duties and rationing imposed by China, electric cars and wind will NEVER be economical.
Switch to NG. With Shale gas there is at least 100 years supply. And its cheap.
Lisa Jackson went on to announce that the new EPA rules was only a small part of the Presidents new energy program, the “Strategic Cave Initiative”. Still in it’s early stages, the Army Corps of Engineers is still blasting out over 400 million square feet of caves high in the Sierra Nevada mountains.
In a move expected to save over 500 billion tons of CO2 emissions, large segments of San Francisco and Los Angeles population will be whisked away to live in the energy efficient caves sometime within the next 10 years. Sans light, running water, and heat, the caves are expected to offer a glimpse of our eco-friendly futuristic life style.
Bubbagyro,
“They should shut them all down: I have wood for my stoves and am well defended here in New Hampshire. The US population is due for a shake-out of the weak hands, so we can restart at 1786 levels.”
There are a few million Chinese who are used to cold winters who are just waiting for that shakeout to come “visit” you. I wouldn’t be so quick to hope for that shakeout until the whole world has lost ocean shipping capabilities!!
Related news: EPA-Texas Feud Escalates Over New Carbon Regulations
MORE – see link above
.
FergalR,
If the Irish government wants to reduce CO2 emissions by 80%, then they can start by turning down the heating in all government buildings by 80% and sell off 80% of the government vehicle fleet.
After all, nobody needs laws to do a good thing, do they?
Roger Sowell says:
I hate to let reality get in the way of a good theory, but
(1) The reason that Obama is “flooding” the U.S. economy with trillions of dollars is that we have just had the largest financial meltdown and economic contraction since the Great Depression. Government is the one entity that can spend during such a recession when the private sector and consumer spending has significantly contracted.
(2) Most economists think we are more in danger of deflation than inflation: http://money.cnn.com/2010/11/17/news/economy/cpi_inflation/index.htm and http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2010/08/10/wsj-survey-risks-of-deflation-on-the-rise-fed-on-hold-longer/
(3) Oil prices depend on many other things much more than monetary or spending policies in the U.S., particularly on this timescale.
It is remarkable how well ideological blinders can shield one from reality.
[Apologies if repeat – didn’t have time to scroll thru all responses above]
This is actually good news. Here’s why: it forces a litigated response, much of which will require depositions and most likely some testimony, which will expose or at the very least call into serious question the “science” at issue here.
And the economics of the rulings now become very material in assessing impact, and ultimately executive branch overreach.
At minimum, I believe you will see state nullification (e.g. Texas, see above) of at least some of this ruling, and best case will be a concerted movement to challenge not only the unilateral EPA ruling, but the pseudoscience used to justify it and numerous other cases (including fossil fuel liability suits, in which practically everyone has standing).
More here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/10/science/earth/10epa.html
And here:
http://www.globalclimatelaw.com/
The U.S. Congress has a Delegation Doctrine, under which agencies can be created to create regulations – a form of law. This link provides a good overview.
http://www.cato.org/pubs/handbook/hb105-4.html
All Congress has to do is declare a CO2 non pollutant, a “clean gas” and non harmful to humans. What’s so hard about that?
@ BillyBob says:
December 23, 2010 at 3:14 pm
Roger, With the price hikes in rare earth metals and export duties and rationing imposed by China, electric cars and wind will NEVER be economical.
It’s not just rare earths. The commodity market generally is going thru the roof for the past few months. Copper, for example, is up nearly $2000/ton since Oct. – http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704118504576034083436931412.html?mod=WSJ_Markets_RightMostPopular
From the NYT article:
Because putting the rules in place will demand significant resources, EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson has decided to focus on the largest sources of greenhouse gas emissions first, McCarthy said. The agency will still meet its Clean Air Act obligations for other industries, she said, leaving open the possibility that performance standards could be issued later for other sectors, such as cement kilns.
“In refineries and power plants, we have large amounts of emissions, we have significant opportunities for cost-effective reductions, and we have relatively few sources to have to regulate,” McCarthy said. “So it was her decision that in 2011 this would be the focus of EPA’s attention.”
==============
Yet, in their insulated little world, they forget who will pay for their indulgences.
And, who won’t.
… are a hedge (a play for commodities market hedgers). It’s either oil or perhaps PMs (precious metals) at this point.
With QE2 there is now ‘free’ capital for investing in a few sure money makers, i.e., a few proven commodities like oil, food stuffs (notice the rising prices there too?) Have you seen how ‘thin’ the trading has been on the equities market (sans HFT – High Frequency Trading ‘moves’ for which the market i.e. the NYSE itself makes money)?
.
I read that there wouldn’t be any proposed rule until second half of 2011 and it wouldn’t begin to take effect until 2012 at the earliest which is a substantial delay and the AGW cabal are carping about it.
The incoming congress easily has the votes (more bi-partison than most things too) for a Congressional Review Act joint resolution against the new EPA rule. President Obama would have to veto congress’ joint resolution. Not sure if they have the votes to override a presidential veto but the house can still refuse to fund it and there’s nothing the EPA or president can do about that. I doubt Obama will put his signature on a veto. It’s just lip service. It appears to be just saving face at this point so those who need to say they tried can say they tried.
Are you the same poster that was castigated a bit back for being a couple market cycles behind (lagging in contemporary knowledge of present economic indicators)?
Old, high grain prices near by Ray Grabanski
12/23/2010 @ 10:51am
Grain Prices Heading Higher In 2011 On Tight Supplies, Rabobank Says
12/22/2010 01:32PM
10 year Maize price chart
Guess What’s Going up in Price? Almost Everything By Mitchell Clark
Dec 23, 2010, 1:21 PM
You think rising commodity prices are going to contribute to deflation?
C’mon, you’re smarter than that, Joel.
.
Anyone still defending the FCC?
totally just curious…
If you don’t understand how how czars and ministries work, then read a little history from the former USSR.
The framers of the constitution never intended for the executive branch to have this much power. In fact, they moved to the New World to escape such a system.
When the president can appoint regulators, and congress can pass 2000 page bills that leave the actual policy making and enforcement to said regulators, then our liberty is stolen.
At this point we don’t know the level of regulation.
In could conceivably mimic the proposed fuel economy standards, which were effectively written by GM,Ford and Chrysler.
Some coal fired generation is going to be retired anyway in the next few years, regardless of what EPA does.
I think they are alive and well and enforcing radio laws (recall, originally, they were named FRC – Federal Radio Commission vs present-day moniker: “FCC”) as intended aside from the recent action of three of the commissioners to set policy applicable to the internet, to wit:
Example: NOTICE OF VIOLATION
.
@ Joel Shore December 23, 2010 at 4:18 pm
Mr. Shore, Obama’s flooding the economy with trillions was exactly the wrong thing at the wrong time – but only if one were trying to put people back to work and create jobs. He has done everything he possibly could to keep employment down, and put money in the economy that would be useless. Useless, other than to create inflation. Such a financial “idiot” as Warren Buffet agrees with me on this. As others wrote above, oil is not the only commodity zooming in price due to Obama’s inflationary moves.
With the world economy slowed just a bit, what could possibly be creating a huge demand in commodities? Nope, it is purely inflationary magic, thanks to Obama and his policies.
And before you go off on a rant, yes, I happen to know more than a little about the oil market.
“Why are the Republicans NOT stopping this agenda?”
Because they can’t. The Congress abdicated their responsibility to the executive branch by allowing this agency to make its own regulations without Congressional approval. This is part of the “progressive” strategy of putting more and more power in the hands of unelected bureaucrats who do not face the voters in elections and are out of the reach of Congress.
We simply have to suffer another two years of this and then engage in a massive steam cleaning of these departments to include the firing of every single political appointee in every department.
I have also noticed that same patter. For example, cutting the Social Security payroll tax in the very same year that babies born in 1946 (the first post-war year) turn 65 and Social Security payouts begin to skyrocket. In other words, he cut that tax at exactly the worst possible time. This is when Social Security needs increased revenues, not decreases in revenue because the Congress hasn’t saved for the boomers’ retirement, it blew the social security money as it was paid in and handed the Social Security Administration and IOU instead. All the SSA trust fund consists of is these IOUs.
Europe’s experience with ETS has demonstrated that carbon permits do not reduce emissions. The only significant co2 emissions reduction have resulted from from fuel switching from coal to gas like the UK did under Margaret Thatcher and from a from a declining economy. If the emissions from the manufacturing and transportation of all the goods that are now imported from China are added, emissions are increasing. One reason that imports to Europe are increasing is that electricity rates have risen so much that manufacturing is now at a disadvantage to India and China.
Thatcher invented the global warming scam to kill the coal industry unions and support the use of newly discovered gas reserves offshore. The US is now in a similar position with newly discovered inexpensive natural gas reserves. The main result of the new EPA regs will be to force utilities to switch from coal to gas. Coal states will revolt and Joe Manchin will switch partys. The blow to coal will be softened if the regs are gradually enforced. Coal demand from China and India will continue to grow.
One factor Lisa Jackson should consider is that if prices for gasoline and electricity rapidly increase there could be riots. Congress should make it clear to the American public just what these costs will be.
Golly, Joel is an econ expert, too! Is there anything he doesn’t know?
Answer: No. But the problem is, what he ‘knows’ isn’t very accurate. Joel says:
Econ was my minor, so I’ve learned a little about our country’s financial history.
The near-Great Depression of 1921 was triggered, among other things, by spending during WW I – and was much worse than the current “Great Recession.”
GNP dropped by 24% between 1920 and 1921, much more than in the current decline. Unemployment more than doubled in one year, from 2 million to 4.9 million.
Those numbers make the current recession look like a hiccup. But the U.S. emerged from that pre-Depression depression in short order — and not by spending our way out of it; that doesn’t work. Even if the economy recovers, it will have about 5 trillion more dollars chasing the same number of goods and services [note that I said “if.”] And we now have another big stimulus in the extension of the Bush tax cuts. There may be inflation, or deflation… or stagflation, like we had in the ’70’s: the cost of everything went up – except for employee pay.
So, to get back to the Depression of 1921. How did we get ourselves out of it so fast, and into the Roaring 20’s?
The answer was not spending like drunk sailors; the answer was the same that any household faces when its income is cut: the U.S. cut spending and cut taxes. Big time.
At the federal level, taxes were cut from over $6.5 billion to $4 billion over two years. Government spending was reduced from $6.3 billion to $3.2 billion over the same period, from 1920 – 1922. Federal spending and taxes continued to decline for 2 1/2 more years, as the government began paying off debt until by the end of the ’20’s, the U.S. was completely debt-free.
Due to President Harding’s swift action, GNP completely recovered by 1922, and unemployment fell to only 6.7% . By 1926 unemployment was at just 1.8%. [Current U-6 unemployment, which includes those who have given up looking for work, is north of 17%.]
So there is a proven way to make the pain last only a short time: cut taxes and cut spending. And cut them by a lot. Had we done that when the subprime crisis first hit, by now the country would be more prosperous, and with less unemployment, than it was in 2006. Instead, we have added $trillions to our spending, and only deferred a major tax increase for two years. After that… BOHICA.
Flooding the economy with printed dollars will inevitably cause problems down the road. Further, while there is a reasonable argument to be made that it was necessary to provide the country with liquidity when a run on the banks was threatened at the start of the crisis, there is absolutely zero credible rationale for continuing to funnel $trillions into non-existent “shovel ready” pockets.
“Never let a good crisis go to waste” is the call of of opportunists greedily picking taxpayer pockets. The country has always benefitted in the long run from a strong, stable dollar. But now, Obama is handing out Zimbabwe dollars. The chickens have not yet come home to roost. But they will.
Regulations have to come quickly before people notice that the temperature is dropping without greenhouse gas regulation. After regulations, the drop in temperature is a triumph of government and its regulations.
Joel Shore says:
December 23, 2010 at 4:18 pm
“It is remarkable how well ideological blinders can shield one from reality.”
============================================
And you and your fellow CAGW parishoners would know…first hand, right?
Thanks for that self-confession….even if it was projected.
Chris
Norfolk, VA, USA
This infuriates me to no end.
Instead of focusing on black carbon and methane, they would rather waste our time and money (in lawsuits and legislation) to protect their dogmatic beliefs. Have to protect the hive, instead of protecting the people.
I have it on good word that the house energy committee that Greg Walden R-Red Sea
Of Oregon, is on, that Lisa “Action” Jackson is going to have make sure that she has a comfortable seat-in front of the committee….
David S says:
December 23, 2010 at 2:54 pm
The very first sentence in the constitution, following the preamble, says this:
“All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.”
Nowhere does the constitution authorize congress to delegate it’s legislative power.
If the EPA creates rules which carry the force of law then they are creating law. That is clearly a power given exclusively to congress. So the EPAs regulations are blatantly unconstitutional. If this is allowed to stand then America will be governed by unelected bureaucrats instead of elected representatives. We must not let this happen.
———————————————————————
Delegation of power is implicit in the granting of power. Otherwise, Congress would have to personally administer every law.
But, the reverse is also true. The ways and means vary, but in practice delegation can be taken away. I’m not an expert on US government, but if the EPA can be denied (or seriously limited) its funding by Congress, that is one way. Another would be a resolution that requires a high bar (eg 2/3 majority) for approval of regulations. While that might be vetoed, it would be sending a powerful message to the agencies involved that they might have a budget of $10 next year if they continue to defy the elected representatives who are in charge of the money.
I should have mentioned in my post above – the power to make regulations stems from the primary legislation, which is under the control of elected representatives. Any agency that has to implement legislation needs regulations, but the scope of the regulations and mechanisms for their approval are governed by legislation enacted by elected representatives.
Less point scoring and more doing the boring work of ensuring that laws deliver no more and no less than intended is needed here.
Not to worry. The harsh winter in Germany has resulted in a drop in funding for Intel’s solar startup Spectrawatt in New York.
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Green-IT/Intel-Spinoff-SpectraWatt-Announces-Plant-Closing-189576/
If the Germans give up on this nonsense, the US is not far behind.
At least the US has the luxury of fuel switching to reduce co2 emissions by switching from coal to natural gas for electricity generation. Germany has been rapidly building new brown coal plants to meet the demands of Europe’s only remaining manufacturing country. Maybe, Andrea Merkel, a physicist has finally got it.
“Solar energy generation is not under debate any more, that was figured out back in 1938.”
Well, thank you, Leif, for being the holder of all truth, and deciding not only what can be debated, but in fact, what is being debated.
I suppose we can all stop thinking about this now. Leif has spoken.
the quicker thay shut everything down the better than the y gen ratbags will realise what thay have done to our economy
Welcome to our world, the UK has had 13 years of this Socialist bullshite, now the Condems have shown their true colours and are still taking this country down the road to ruin.
Don’t trust politicians as the majority are signed up for the New World order whatever their political persuasion, I fear that the time for direct action is fast approaching
Smokey says:
Ah…I was talking about the actual Depression. Not the near-depression of 1921. But, let’s go with your change of topic.
I’m not sure where you get this estimates from. This link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depression_of_1920%E2%80%9321 says
The unemployment rate did increase sharply although the more than doubling comes from one estimate, with another being that it went from 5.2% to 8.7%.
What follows is the laissez-faire Australian school’s interpretation of reality. However, it has been argued that this interpretation is factually-challenged (from the Wiki cite above):
See you in court. This is a tax and they don’t have that authority. We can find a judge to rule on this.
Since these are not science types, The house can call the “pretend scientists” that have been messing up data. James Hansen live on CNN all drama and no science will help the popcorn business.
Two more years of Obamaworld. Then Obamaworld can be undone.
Joel Shore – now a cut ‘n’ paste instant Wikipedia expert on economics.
The figures I gave can be found throughout various econ texts and sites. But for Joel’s level of understanding, maybe Santa will bring him Hazlitt’s Economics in One Lesson, to counteract his Das Kapital. My point, which soared clear over Joel’s head, is that his belief that spending more money is the answer to our current problems, which were caused by overspending, is obviously the wrong answer.
More to the point, it is ridiculous. Continued excessive spending is the worst possible ‘solution.’ Excessive spending based on fiat money creation has much more serious consequesnces than if we simply rein in the current wild overspending — which will have to be done sooner or later, and the longer it is put off, the more painful squaeling will be heard.
Furthermore, most of the money printed so far has been completely wasted, by keeping Government Motors assembly line workers employed for only one more year [after which the money is gone – and then what?], and handing out millions to anti-American groups like ACORN so they can continue their voting fraud efforts, and other complete wastes of taxpayer money. Where are the pot holes being filled? Where is the infrastructure being repaired? In fact, it is now admitted that no “shovel ready” projects exist. The basis for this excessive spending was built on that Obama lie, endlessly repeated.
Certainly Obama is the worst president in American history, eclipsing even the completely inept Jimmuh Carter, and über-dope Woodrow Wilson, who did exactly what was necessary to bring about WWII. Obama is not just Steve Urkel. He is an anti_American Steve Urkel.
Now we have a multi-thousand page health care plan, passed without a single Republican vote, and written by a committee’s staff whose Chairman admits he does not even understand it. It was never shown to the public as repeatedly promised, and only shown to Congress the day before the vote; a Congress that exempts itself from it. It was signed by a pathologically lying, cigarette smoking, cheeseburger eating president who never read it, with funding administered by a Treasury chief [and head of the IRS] who blatantly cheated on his income taxes, and who was subsequently rewarded with a Cabinet position. It is overseen by a grossly obese Surgeon General, and expected to be financed by already over-taxed workers whose country is almost completely broke.
That is the mind-set of the Leftist clowns pretending to “fix” the economy by more spending. Those clowns couldn’t collectively find their way to the bathroom, and the head-nodders who approve of their profligate spending only add to the problem.
However, printing $5 trillion in a recession, which is certainly not as severe as 1921, isn’t being done out of ignorance. Obama is just a sock puppet of the world totalitatian clique. Unnecessary spending is a deliberate Cloward-Piven strategy, intended to bring the great U.S.A. down to the pathetic level of the limp-wristed EU, whose citizens are overly dependent on their class-based government, and where a large part of the working age population has never held a job at all.
Making people who are fully capable of working totally dependent on the government gives the government complete control of their lives; they know they must do whatever is necessary to keep their monthly dole coming in. They are serfs, going hat in hand to their betters, who hand out the pittance which keeps them from any hope of ever becoming rich based on their own efforts. That same mind-set is behind every action of the current Administration and its lickspittle supporters.
Anyone who argues that continued spending of $trillions far after a crisis has passed is either an economic illiterate, or they know exactly what they want and how to acheive it. The large majority of Americans do not want bigger government, including nationalized health care, “carbon” taxes, or higher energy costs, or higher personal taxes. But despite the national bitch-slapping of Obama’s policies in last November’s election, the Cloward-Piven bus keeps rolling along. Could this Administration be any more devious?
These people, and their puppets/useful fools do not want America to be great, for their own international ideological reasons. American exceptionalism has provided immense wealth for all. Yes, there is disparity, but disparity is provably a good thing: it is built into every facet of Nature. So long as everyone has the basics, free enterprise and the free market are the only way to acheive greatness. If not, let’s give handicap points based on a basketball team’s record; the worse their record, the more points they get when the game starts. Hey, that would only be “fair.”
Like most real Americans, I want only opportunity –not ‘equality of results’. That way leads straight to national mediocrity, and eventual totalitarian world government: lose/lose. And the puppets demanding ever more spending are Stalin’s “useful idiots” leading us down that ugly and dangerous path.
Late bump and I don’t know if this has been posted already.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9K9R5JO0&show_article=1
EPA is now taking over the Texas Gas Permits as it has decided that Texas was not complying.
What’s interesting is the concept of nullification of bad laws and how the federal government reacts. In the case of Illegal Immigration, as various states produce “Sanctuary Cities,” it has done nothing. In the case of Medical Marijuana, it’s a mixed bag of doing nothing or continuing federal law. In the case of the EPA, it means federal takeover of the relevant state agencies.
Consistent, no. Constitutional, probably not.
Link to explanation and history of Nullification. http://www.tomwoods.com/learn-about-state-nullification/
The EPA emissions rules are the first installment of the plan to regulate (control) every aspect of fuels extraction, energy production and consumption. CA is already experimenting with “smart” meters that allow regulators to ration the time of and quantities of gas, water and electricity consumed.
One of the intended (obvious) consequences of the national and state energy policies will be increased numbers of avoidable deaths of the vulnerable children and the elderly. This link is to a news story of increased deaths in the UK from home fuel shortages due to rationing based upon flawed predictions of the severity of winter weather:
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/851254-britains-big-freeze-death-toll-hits-300-every-day
Get ready for the battles to prevent government control of energy production and consumption. If we fail to win, many will die prematurely and unnecessarily.
Man, you are incredible Joel.
Regardless, Merry Christmas and don’t burn all the coal in your stocking all in one sitting!
.
Looking forward to House hearings and litigation by companies & individuals against the EPA where full discovery and rules of evidence will be applied throughout the coming year. 🙂
Anthropogenic CO2 emissions will need to be proven as a toxin and a quantifiable & detrimental influence on global climate. The courts are where CAGW will be measured.
BTW: Virginia Virginia Qui Tam Law.com reports:
Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli Appeals Ruling on Civil Investigative Demand to University of Virginia
“Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli has asked the Virginia Supreme Court to hear an appeal of the ruling earlier this year quashing his Civil Investigative Demand (“CID”) to the University of Virginia. “
http://tinyurl.com/2vfbefv
Cuccinelli_Dec__15_Petition_for_Appeal_on_UVa.pdf
http://tinyurl.com/2wsyjar