Leaked Doc Proves Spain’s Green Policies an Economic Disaster

Christopher Horner reports that Pajamas Media has received a leaked internal document confirming Spain realizes its green failures, just as Obama pushes the American Power Act based on Spain’s program.

Pajamas Media has received a leaked internal assessment produced by Spain’s Zapatero administration. The assessment confirms the key charges previously made by non-governmental Spanish experts in a damning report exposing the catastrophic economic failure of Spain’s “green economy” initiatives.

On eight separate occasions, President Barack Obama has referred to the “green economy” policies enacted by Spain as being the model for what he envisioned for America.

Later came the revelation that Obama administration senior Energy Department official Cathy Zoi — someone with serious publicized conflict of interest issues — demanded an urgent U.S. response to the damaging report from the non-governmental Spanish experts so as to protect the Obama administration’s plans.

Most recently, U.S. senators have introduced the vehicle for replicating Spain’s unfolding economic meltdown here, in the form of the “American Power Act.”

But today’s leaked document reveals that even the socialist Spanish government now acknowledges the ruinous effects of green economic policy.

Full story here:

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/breaking-leaked-doc-proves-spains-green-policies-%E2%80%94-the-basis-for-obamas-%E2%80%94-an-economic-disaster-pjm-exclusive/

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74 Responses to Leaked Doc Proves Spain’s Green Policies an Economic Disaster

  1. Mike Jowsey says:

    Your first 2 links are transposed

  2. Henry chance says:

    Where are the green jobs in America?
    I looked on Wiki and the agriculture production jobs are labeled green. Helps the numbers look better.
    This regime knows Spain was failing. But they don’t have Harvud grads.

  3. Expat in France says:

    No more than most of us expected. No doubt Obama won’t get around to reading it, as his sole purpose appears to be to destroy the United States as we know it.

  4. Mike86 says:

    Another point to mention when sending e-mails, phone calls, etc., to our state Senators. After ObamaCare, it really seems like they’re not listening, but it’s about the only avenue available.

  5. Craig Goodrich says:

    “In renewable energy, often government incentive programs are a key factor in our decision,” said Andrew Katell, a spokesman for GE Energy Financial Services. “We would take the same approach in Spain.”

    — Bloomberg

    Note that the only bright spot is Spain’s exports of wind equipment — but the Spanish, like the rest of the population of Europe, is growing more and more wary of having their landscape and rural lifestyle destroyed by useless phalanxes of monster turbines. So Spain is exporting them — to the US and Canada, where the public hasn’t caught on yet. (GE, of course, bought its “renewable” business from Enron when the latter went belly-up.)

    To these direct costs of renewables must be added indirect costs, as the need for additional investment in networks [the electrical grid] to integrate renewables (about 10% of planned investment in the planning) and capacity payments to the modular backup facilities (coal and gas) that are running a smaller number of hours.

    With wind, the catch-22 is that the turbines generate their full rated power typically less than 15-20% of the time in the best locations, but backup natural gas plants have to have the same full rated power and kept on warm standby 24/7. Simply running a quarter of the backup plants constantly at full power (a more fuel-efficient mode anyway) would both save CO2 emissions (assuming for the sake of argument that’s desirable) and save the enormous capital costs of the turbines (about €2 million per tower) and three-quarters of the gas capacity. Plus of course saving the subsidy.

    The “renewable energy” fraud is the bootlegger half of the Global Warming scam; Greenpeace and the like are the Baptist half.

  6. Douglas DC says:

    As we in “nowhere” Oregon get covered with those monstrosities only to be
    abandoned later….

  7. milio says:

    Hello from spain.

    Just a couple of things to say:

    Spain’s GDP is 1 trillion euros, so you can calculate percentages and extract your own conclusions of this crazy green policy

    On Spain, energy companies are obligated to buy national coal (which is more expensive than import carbon), but they don’t use it to produce energy because coal energy in spain is less than a 15%. They buy more than they need.
    Coal mining in Spain survives only by public money. In 2010, the total amount will be 681 milion €. There are only 7967 workers on coal mining in Spain.

    Sorry for my english

  8. Thomas says:

    It goes all the way to the top. Here’s Obama talking about Serious Materials.

  9. drjohn says:

    Is that a real Gore ad or an Onion type spoof? It made me laugh out loud.

  10. Mauibrad says:

    Gettin’ rich off of “global warming”:
    “How green is Al Gore’s $9 million Montecito oceanfront villa?”

    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/greenhouse/post/2010/05/how-green-is-al-gores-9-million-montecito-ocean-front-villa

  11. PaulH says:

    It’s worse than we thought. Well, not really.

  12. ParticularIndividual says:

    For such a green, emission free technology, there sure are a lot of videos of them burning.

  13. Scott says:

    Move along, nothing to see here…

    I don’t think anyone is surprised by this…isn’t it similar to what several independent people have predicted? Oh wait, I guess they were funded by Big Oil, and apparently the entire socialist government of Spain is funded by Big Oil too!

    What a conspiracy…IT’S WORSE THAN WE THOUGHT!

    LOL

    -Scott

  14. Brian D says:

    This is what climate change alarmism produces. We have to get changed over now before we die. These hard charging policies are going to kill the world economy if allowed to persist. Very gradual implementation is needed. I don’t mind green tech for energy, but common sense needs to prevail. Notice those windmills not turning. Wind energy is a weak alternative. Solar is a little better, but during the winter when there is less sun, and more light time needed, doesn’t work out so well, either. Although it is generally windier during those months.

    This is not like introducing new technology into the consumer market. Expensive at first, but as the wealthy start to buy, the price goes down as the demand goes up. If it doesn’t make it, no harm, no foul. But energy is a different beast. It is needed, and any changes the drive the price up can set back, or even cripple an economy. And the world economy doesn’t need that kind of pressure right now. And governments trying to subsidize to buffer that transition are really feeling it now. Kill your sources of revenue, and print more money, all for the sake of the climate. And we elect these people!

  15. Cold Englishman says:

    Notice in the movie, none of the turbines are working. It’s common here in UK, drive up through Cumbria, where there’s plenty of them, often half are idle.

  16. Ray says:

    This is great news to debunk an economic model that is designed to fail.

    How can this wind mill burn while there is no wind to make it turn? Note also that the other wind mills are not turning… expensive equipment to just sit there an not produce electricity.

  17. Jeff M says:

    What is this about? (OT)

    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/sciencefair/post/2010/05/2010-is-warmest-year-on-record/1

    They say it is warmest year on record and record low snow extent? Given the cold winter in the northern hemisphere, I’m wondering whats up with this article.

  18. P Walker says:

    As Horner says , the report softpedals the facts . What I don’t understand is how the Spanish govt. hopes to meet their objectives listed at the end of the report . What are the chances that our MSM will report this ?

  19. Al Gore's Holy Hologram says:

    All socialist policies are a joke. Britain’s Labour government was spending its way to oblivion creating governmental jobs to make it look like it was tackling unemployment. Then it created a welfare culture for immigrants to make sure they all voted Labour even if they hated the country and were abusing our kindness. If Labour had won the election they would have proceeded to build stupid windmills everywhere, turn Britain into a slave of the EU and IMF, and then forced the public to accept ID cards and carbon rations as a way to police and control every aspect of our lives in the name of ‘security’. It reads like a conspiracy theory yet it is all there in the open. A blatant abuse of power.

  20. Henry chance says:

    The rush to the green fiasco creates massive national debt.
    The green energy jobs are temporary
    Spain is running 20-22% unemployment.
    Going green creates splendid opportunity for pork, bribes, kickbacks, carbon trading scams and everything but economical energy.
    The American Power Grab Act creates 60 new agencies.

  21. RockyRoad says:

    Perhaps Obama isn’t smart enough to understand what a disaster his green policies will be in the US, but I seriously doubt it. Perhaps Obama isn’t congnizant of the machinations of the free market system and what debilitating impact his green policies will have on job creation and wealth generation, but I seriously doubt that, too. That leaves us with just this alternative–that this puppet of the Progressive Socialists has every intention of thwarting capitalism, scuttling our standard of living, and destroying our democratic republic. In his campaign, he promised to bring “change”. We’re seeing all too clearly what a disaster this will be–should the US become like Europe, there will be no hope for the western world. But Obama isn’t working to support westerm civilizaiton; he’s working against it!

    However, half of the solution is in clearly recognizing the problem. And enough people recognize it now that these Progressive’s time is up. Their day of dominance is ending.

  22. Bill Marsh says:

    How does Obama manage to lecture anyone on profligate government spending and for having an excessive deficit without his face turning beet red?

  23. Why do you think Obama wants the US to be prosperous and successful? Looks to me that Obama is pushing a Spain like program BECAUSE it has totally failed in Spain.

  24. Russ Hatch says:

    The health care bill was modeled on a failed one from Mass. and now the energy bill is being modeled on a failed one from Spain. The whole economic policy is modeled on socilism which has failed world wide. What else is new?

  25. nofreewind says:

    Of course. On the front page of my local paper is an article detailing how natural gas customers can expect a 20% decrease in their heating bills this winter because we are drilling for natural gas here in Pennsylvania and the increased supply is bringing the heating bills down, thereby furthering prosperity. Also, Governor Rendell is calling for increased taxes on the drilling operation. When we drill for gas or oil, there is tax revenue produced and energy costs go down for consumers, thereby enriching our government and the consumers. More money is available to spend, the economy improves.

    But when we construct “pixie-dust” alternative energy the exact opposite occurs. The government has to pay to construct the alternative energy, because no person would be silly enough or foolish with their money to consider these sources as “energy”, and then the consumers in addition, have to pay more for energy, even with the tax subsidies.
    Traditional Energy = WIN/WIN
    Alternative Energy = LOSE/LOSE

  26. kadaka (KD Knoebel) says:

    For reference purposes, here is an article about the previous damning report from April, as I just found from a link at Michelle Malkin’s mention of it. (Hey tarpon, you still stand by that comment? Is A123 Systems still that great?)

    Both sites have the link to the report (pdf).

    Interesting info in the Executive Summary, and yes I handpicked bits I find interesting:

    2. Optimistically treating European Commission partially funded data[1], we find that for every renewable energy job that the State manages to finance, Spain’s experience cited by President Obama as a model reveals with high confidence, by two different methods, that the U.S. should expect a loss of at least 2.2 jobs on average, or about 9 jobs lost for every 4 created, to which we have to add those jobs that non-subsidized investments with the same resources would have created.

    5. Despite its hyper-aggressive (expensive and extensive) “green jobs” policies it appears that Spain likely has created a surprisingly low number of jobs, two-thirds of which came in construction, fabrication and installation, one quarter in administrative positions, marketing and projects engineering, and just one out of ten jobs has been created at the more permanent level of actual operation and maintenance of the renewable sources of electricity.

    7. The study calculates that since 2000 Spain spent €571,138 to create each “green job”, including subsidies of more than €1 million per wind industry job.
    8. The study calculates that the programs creating those jobs also resulted in the destruction of nearly 110,500 jobs elsewhere in the economy, or 2.2 jobs destroyed for every “green job” created.

    10. Each “green” megawatt installed destroys 5.28 jobs on average elsewhere in the economy: 8.99 by photovoltaics, 4.27 by wind energy, 5.05 by mini-hydro.
    11. These costs do not appear to be unique to Spain’s approach but instead are largely inherent in schemes to promote renewable energy sources.

    It’s worse than we thought.

    I’ve long heard that “2.2 jobs lost” figure around here. However, that’s 2.2 directly lost on net per green job created. And only 1 in ten is permanent, so 3.2*0.9 + 2.2*0.1 yields 3.1 old jobs lost over time, period. And every “green” megawatt installed is destroying 5.28 jobs on average elsewhere in the economy. Yup, that’ll add up.

    From this I can see two possible conclusions that can be reached:
    1. “Green energy” is a job-killing monster that will destroy our economy.
    2. We can keep installing “green energy” until everyone is out of work, which won’t matter since we’ll be awash in free energy thus no one will need to work anyway.

    The job loss is a linear trend, just like atmospheric CO2 concentration and global temperatures, and the current US government is spending us out of a hole created by debt. So #2 is looking really good and totally possible. We can do it! Yes we can!

  27. pgosselin says:

    I’ve been living in Europe for 20 years, and believe me, it’s not just the wind generators that are a disaster, i.e. fiscal and social policy – Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal…and the rest will follow if something isn’t done soon).

  28. Warren in Minnesota says:

    Milio, your English is good. You do not need to apologize.
    Here in Minnesota we have no coal or oil. So we could also say that our cost is cheaper to import than produce locally.
    Warren

  29. kadaka (KD Knoebel) says:

    Re: kadaka (KD Knoebel) on May 18, 2010 at 11:59 am

    Whoops. Did I add those jobs up correctly? I may have mis-interpreted how those “elsewhere in the economy” numbers work together between the jobs-per-jobs and jobs-per-megawatt figures.

    But it’s still shocking that only 1 in 10 of those great “green jobs” is actually permanent. Ouch.

  30. CodeTech says:

    Just north of the Montana border in Southern Alberta, where the wind reliably blasts in from the west through the Rocky Mountains, is a really large group of these ugly wind thingies. They’re almost always spinning away at speed, day and night, winter and summer. Supporters say it’s one of the few locations that wind power actually makes sense, and I’d tend to agree (luckily I don’t live there).

    Mile after mile of giant, roaring, humming blades spin hour after hour. It takes 1/2 hour at highway speed to get through the infestation. Eagles, falcons, hawks, owls, ducks, Canada geese, and other birds regularly travel through that same mountain route.

    Meanwhile, in Calgary there is a mall… a single shopping mall… that claims to be powered by this huge wind farm. Just one single mall. So I checked it out, and sure enough, the approximate output of this huge array of bird slicers approximately matches the power usage of that mall. And only that mall.

    Years ago when I was 15, my first job was in that mall. I happen to know they have a backup generator, and it sits in a room beside the garbage bins. The size of the generator is about the same as the size of my car. When it’s running it is not much louder than my car. It has never sliced a bird in two, has never kept hundreds of local ranchers awake at night from the noise, and has never blighted thousands of acres of otherwise beautiful rolling landscape. Nobody ever printed brochures and pamphlets and newspaper ads bragging about the backup generator. They never set up a kiosk in the mall extolling the virtues of the generator. Nobody has ever postulated hundreds of jobs of any color based on the operation of that generator (I’m sure the maintenance guys sometimes check it over, though). Also, they never hooked up the generator to the power grid, then claimed they were powered by it.

    If these are “green” jobs, and this is a “green” industry in a “green” economy, then they are about as honest as climatologists.

  31. So I suppose the syllogism as follows:

    a)Spain is onthe verge of public debt meltdown.
    b)America does not wish to be exposed to the contagion of that meltdown.
    c)Therefore America must pressurise Spain to clamp down on its public debt, while emulating the green energy policies that are powering that debt…

    Is it absolutely necessary to have a reality bypass to be in a government these days, or does that just help?

  32. UK Sceptic says:

    The Greek economy has gone into meltdown. It is swiftly being followed by the economies of Spain and Portugal. The UK economy is hardly in a fitter state. The UK is swiftly approaching an energy crisis and what is our new Prime Minister going to do about it?

    Well judge for yourselves…

    http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2010/05/doomed.html

    Calling Camoron (spelling intentional) and his coalition/liberal sidekick Chris Huhne (who is our “not gonna renew nuclear and fossil fuel power stations” energy and environment minister), cretins is a massive understatement. Their policies, if carried out, will herald a new Dark Age.

    With something like 40% of our generating capacity about to be lost through shut downs in the next few years, courtesy of aging power stations and nuclear reactors, we expect that Huhne will employ magic moonbeams and fairy dust to provide what wind turbines fail to generate. He certainly won’t be filling the energy gap by any sensible conventional means. Should we remind him that we are on a similar latitude to Hudson bay and the climate is cooling?

    We are so screwed. :0(

  33. Wind Rider says:

    Hey, a bit OT, but just in time to provide comic relief at the ICCC4 – NOAA today announced that Jan-Apr 2010 was the WARMEST EVAH!!!!!

  34. Lance says:

    History about to repeat itself….

  35. kwik says:

    The socialist are experts in newspeak. They managed to carry on for quite a few years in the USSR.

  36. rogerkni says:

    This report will give wavering congressmen the justification they need to vote No on cap and trade. This plus the ongoing monetary crisis.

  37. Juraj V. says:

    I have no other explanation, except the political left willingly wants to destroy the success of capitalism, when they did not succeed it in open competition Soviet bloc vs West. In the process, they want to create a mass of citizens depending on state and thus to create indestructible base of their future voters.
    Do something, because if you fail, we will wake up being loaded into trains like cattle again.

  38. Enneagram says:

    Mayan prophecy or reality check?…:For December 21st. 2012 all “developed” countries will be broken thanks to green policies, then the UN will proclaim Al Gore as World Regent.

  39. Henry chance says:

    Serious materials is a takeover subsidized window company. They went broke after the mortgage meltdown. They shafted a lot of creditors. The weatherization boondoggle is feeding the shark. The windows get subsidized to the homeowner but on the way, the price tripples. Cube farms, bureaucrats, approvals, paperwork and tax subsidies are behind the windows.

  40. Ecotretas says:

    Nothing that we don’t know for several months here in Portugal and Spain. The worst things about green energy that one can imagine are happening here and in Spain! Please find more in my blog, despite it being in Portuguese. More details can be given: send me an email (top left side of the blog).

    Ecotretas

  41. Jim Clarke says:

    I tried to post a comment on YouTube under the Serious Materials video (above). This is what I wanted to say:

    “I encourage all of you to read the fallacy of the broken window:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window

    All ‘green jobs’ fall under this fallacy. While the 150 people at this factory will benefit, they do so at the cost of all other tax payers who subsidize the factory and consumers who buy the expensive windows to avoid the artificially high cost of fuel (under Obama’s energy plan). The result for the economy is negative and more than 150 jobs will be lost elsewhere.”

    Apparently Serious Materials doesn’t want people to point out the ‘scheme’ they are participating in with the administration. I can’t really blame them.

  42. Ecotretas says:

    This is old news here. This has at least three weeks: http://ecotretas.blogspot.com/2010/04/bons-ventos-de-espanha.html

    Ecotretas

  43. JinOH says:

    “No more than most of us expected. No doubt Obama won’t get around to reading it, as his sole purpose appears to be to destroy the United States as we know it.”

    No doubt he won’t read it – the people in this administration can’t even read a 10 page bill from Arizona about immigration law.

  44. 1DandyTroll says:

    I think UK will fold before Spain, since they’re already on the brink of being on the dole in EU like Greece.

    Personally I think France ought to be the on to go second, since they didn’t have the decency to go first, what with being the sole reason, and almost the sole beneficiary, for massive subsidies for farming and agriculture, almost half the EU budget goes to that idiocy, even though the effects are known negative.

    Political corruption seem to be the norm when it comes to all things “green governing” and crap like it. They always need hand outs, for ever.

  45. Al Gore's Holy Hologram says:

    Energy efficient windows? LOL

    I can’t believe Americans are making a big deal out of double glazing and politicians get involved. We’ve had them in England for decades.

    But then again, England’s elite taxed us for having windows a couple hundred years ago…

  46. Mike says:

    This “leaked document” is just a slide show presentation. It describes some pros and cons of Spain’s energy policies. (E.g., too much emphasis on solar.) It does not confirm claims made in the controversial study critical of Spain’s green economic policies. This has little to do with current debates about U.S. energy/climate policy.

  47. Vincent says:

    UK Sceptic,

    “Calling Camoron (spelling intentional) and his coalition/liberal sidekick Chris Huhne (who is our “not gonna renew nuclear and fossil fuel power stations” energy and environment minister), cretins is a massive understatement. Their policies, if carried out, will herald a new Dark Age. ”

    It becomes stranger with each passing day. First Cameron appoints Huhne as Minister for energy and climate change to oversee the destruction of the UK energy base, then he appoints Charles Hendry as Minister of Nuclear development to cancel out Huhne.

    It’s starting to remind me of the nursery rhyme about the old lady who swallowed a fly, and then swallowed a spider to catch the fly, and then a bird to catch the spider etc. Who will Cameron swallow next to cancel out Hendry?

  48. Henry chance says:

    About Serious Materials windows.

    They are made with fiberglass and foam or vynyl frames. Neither material is recycled nor will it be recycled. Not wood from trees of course. It would cut their profits.
    How about them windows made prom crude oil products? But get this, they get the big Energy Star because they are double glazed.
    60 million dollars raised from “green” investors. If you put green colorant in wallboard, you can double the price. They sell sheetrock also. The sermon on the environment they provide is included at no charge.

  49. AnonyMoose says:

    Warren in Minnesota says:
    May 18, 2010 at 12:11 pm
    Here in Minnesota we have no coal or oil. So we could also say that our cost is cheaper to import than produce locally.

    Well, you could ferment all your crops into alcohol and burn all your trees and peat.
    I don’t know what you’d eat or burn the second year.

  50. Enneagram says:

    Repeat after me: GREEN….GO!!!!
    You see, after all, who invented this expression was a visionary.

  51. Jeremy says:

    The parable of the broken window is apt here.

    Stepping back in perspective, you can look at it in a slightly more humanist way. We’re deciding to *break* our energy system and saying this will generate jobs in rebuilding it better. The money spent doing this could be spent in numerous other ways. For instance, space exploration is currently underfunded in most nations. Regardless of what you consider to be the greatest threat to the earth from man, the fact of the matter is that mans impact on this planet only increases due to increases in human population on it. It is a true and correct perspective to think that the ultimate conservationist/environmentalist wants to leave Earth permanently. There is no greater way to reduce your impact on Earth than by leaving it and making your mess living elsewhere. Beyond this, there is no guarantee that Earth will not be hit by a life-ending asteroid and self-sustaining colonies on other solar bodies only makes sense if you’re talking about it from a survivalist pov.

    So now we’re deciding to break our energy system to rebuild it. This is a waste of time by definition. We’re essentially making work for ourselves. It’s like burning down your house so you can rebuild it when what you really need to do is kick your older children out to make houses of their own. We’re going to spend tremendous percentages of GDP to do this. NASA’s budget is an order of magnitude less as a percentage of the federal budget than in the 1960’s. Right now we spend around 0.5% of the federal budget on NASA, that’s about 10-15 billion dollars. Human spaceflight is a large chunk of that, but smaller still. The impact of the energy plan on just the federal budget is in the hundreds of billions.

    I’m sure I don’t need to go further to demonstrate just how wrong this perspective appears. Humanity seems to have decided to look solely inwards at itself, and generally that’s when bad things happen.

    If you’re running a household, you don’t spend money adding onto the house so your children and their wives/families can live with you. You don’t destroy parts of your house because the number of occupants is overwhelming efforts to keep it clean. The only real solution to this is to give your kids someplace else to live. Humanity’s children need a viable means of leaving the nest, or it will simply get harder and harder to keep the earth clean and pristine.

  52. 1DandyTroll says:

    @Mike says:
    May 18, 2010 at 1:45 pm
    ‘This “leaked document” is just a slide show presentation. It describes some pros and cons of Spain’s energy policies. (E.g., too much emphasis on solar.) It does not confirm claims made in the controversial study critical of Spain’s green economic policies. This has little to do with current debates about U.S. energy/climate policy.’

    It was a spanish university in spain who did the study, last year I believe.

    And it has everything to do with the current debate in US. One reason is the fact that countries who has shelved tones of cash into everything green (or too much anything government funding) during during financial crisis’, two in this case after after the dot com bull shit, is bound to not do too well budget wise. Hadn’t Spain gotten the hell out of Dodge Iraq City when they did, and still shelled funding into the green drain they’d probably gone bust before Greece. UK are still keeping their nose above the surface only because of the oil, but then again BP might have f.ed that up for UK completely unless the conservatives gets down and dirty begin all that they can be and separate man from state, and from what it looks like now UK from EU, since obviously UK was only a bone to EU as long as UK was on the up and up and, no war to fund years and year and years through two serious downs, and at the same time funding every “green” idiocy known to man, all the while trying to get rid of that nasty sticky oil that takes care of cash business any time of the day every day.

  53. kadaka (KD Knoebel) says:

    Excerpt from: Vincent on May 18, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    It’s starting to remind me of the nursery rhyme about the old lady who swallowed a fly, and then swallowed a spider to catch the fly, and then a bird to catch the spider etc. Who will Cameron swallow next to cancel out Hendry?

    Does she then swallow a cat to catch the bird? If we can spend and tax our way out of a debt-induced recession then an old lady can swallow a whole live cat.

    Of course the proper sequence is to swallow a small frog to catch the fly, then swallow a snake to catch the frog. The snake can find its own way out easily enough, but swallowing some mineral oil for lubrication will help it get through the tight spots.

    |\| | |/| |\| | |/|

    Excerpt from: Henry chance on May 18, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    60 million dollars raised from “green” investors. If you put green colorant in wallboard, you can double the price. They sell sheetrock also.

    They already have green sheetrock (gypsum wallboard) but that indicates the moisture-resistant type suitable for bathrooms.

    However, there may be a “green” market for 100% recycled aluminum products, based on recycling some old rocks that had to be cleared away from a site where a future nature reserve -slash- carbon sink is planned to be located. Now how green is that?

  54. Gail Combs says:

    Jeff M says:
    May 18, 2010 at 10:40 am

    “What is this about? (OT)

    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/sciencefair/post/2010/05/2010-is-warmest-year-on-record/1

    They say it is warmest year on record and record low snow extent? Given the cold winter in the northern hemisphere, I’m wondering whats up with this article.”
    __________________________________________________________________________
    70% of the earth is ocean. We were in a El Nino (hot ) phase so sea surface temps were up. Also as Dr. Spencer pointed out this transferred heat to the troposphere so the satellite temp was also up. What is not mentioned is the ocean after dumping heat to the atmosphere has cooled 1C in one month a drop not seen since the cold seventies.

    Spencer: Record January warmth is mostly sea

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/02/05/spencer-record-january-warmth-is-mostly-sea/

    Flashback to 2007 – SST [sea surface temp] to plunge again?

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/02/05/flashback-to-2007-sst-to-plunge-again/

    The decrease in upper ocean heat content from March to April was 1C – largest since 1979

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/?s=1c+ocean

  55. P Walker says:

    Mike – Had you read the article , you might have noticed that the slide show referenced was reported as being an earlier non-government study , not the leaked document . As mentioned above , that study has been around for a while . The second page of the article provides a translation of parts of the current document . Does that help ?

  56. Mike G says:

    Question for you UK folks: The UK didn’t jump on the Euro bandwagon, or did they? If not, they can imitate this window company sticking it to its creditors by de-valuing UK currency. That’ll stave off the collapse four or five years…

    I saw where one of the possible fixes for Greece was to temporarily kick them out of the EU so they could solve their problems with a devaluation.

    Reminds me of the constitutional amendment passed just after the american civil war. I’m too lazy to check the facts but I seem to recall being taught they were one state short of enough votes for passage. So, they “deemed” Delaware out of the union, passed the amendment, and then re-admitted Delaware. Things haven’t changed so much after all.

  57. Sandi Behrns says:

    Even if your source is accurate, $800,000 is “catastrophic economic failure” ? Please. And people that have spent their careers in alternative energy development have economic ties to “Big Wind”? Shocking! Think you’ve really blown the roof off something here…

  58. Gail Combs says:

    Al Gore’s Holy Hologram says:
    May 18, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    Energy efficient windows? LOL

    I can’t believe Americans are making a big deal out of double glazing and politicians get involved. We’ve had them in England for decades.

    But then again, England’s elite taxed us for having windows a couple hundred years ago…
    _________________________________________________________________________
    We have double and triple glazed windows in the USA. Before that we had “storm windows” that were put on the outside of the permanent windows in the fall and taken off in the spring. Some of the older houses still have “storm windows” instead of being retro fitted with double glazed.

  59. _Jim says:

    Craig Goodrich says, May 18, 2010 at 10:10 am:
    … (GE, of course, bought its “renewable” business from Enron when the latter went belly-up.)

    Which business segment/subsidiary was it GE bought from Enron?

    .
    .

  60. Sordnay says:

    There is a question not adressed on that document I think.
    In Spain there are other energies that receive subsidies from goverment.
    The cogeneration plants do, as well as national carbon as milio said. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cogeneration , cogeneration uses natural gas as fuel, wich Spain has minimum reserves if any.
    So in order to get the subsidies from goverment, many cogeneration plants have been built, and now they find that there is almost no chance to compete with windpower, when there is wind, as they get the “fuel” for free and cogeneration has to pay for it. Maybe these jobs at the cogeneration plants are lost, but they will be as a result of a bad investment.
    On the other hand, I believe that renewable policy in Spain is not correct, but its because of solar panels which receive a greater subsidie about 10 times the one received from windpower or cogeneration and that makes that the 2% of the electric energy consumed (fotovoltaic panels) receive more than half (57%) of the total subsidies, windpower on the other hand produces 13% of the electric energy consumed and only gets 27%.
    Renewable energy can lower the price of the energy, by importing less fossil fuels, wich spain has almost none, and lowering the price of the electric energy pool. Yes, sure some jobs could be lost, but some years before the crisis, many people came to work to Spain from abroad.
    Windpower produces occasionally more than half of the electric power consumed, and the problem I see is that if it grows goberment will have to give money to reliable power sources as fuel or cogeneration to stand and don’t generate energy, but to be there just in case there is not enough wind.

  61. Craig Goodrich says:

    Jim asks, “Which business segment/subsidiary was it GE bought from Enron?”

    Enron was a major lobbyist for Kyoto, having made its original fortune gaming outstandingly stupid state energy laws. When they died, GE bought their wind division and many of the executives who designed the strategy. Google for confirmation.

  62. Tom in Texas says:

    1DandyTroll says:
    May 18, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    That last sentence was a record breaker: MS word count = 124

  63. Tom in Texas says:

    Sorry, forgot to add your “sentence” (paragraph).

    “UK are still keeping their nose above the surface only because of the oil, but then again BP might have f.ed that up for UK completely unless the conservatives gets down and dirty begin all that they can be and separate man from state, and from what it looks like now UK from EU, since obviously UK was only a bone to EU as long as UK was on the up and up and, no war to fund years and year and years through two serious downs, and at the same time funding every “green” idiocy known to man, all the while trying to get rid of that nasty sticky oil that takes care of cash business any time of the day every day.”

  64. stan stendera says:

    What all governments need to do about wind energy subsidies is “break wind”.

  65. Zeke the Sneak says:

    ‘Ce qu’on voit et ce qu’on ne voit pas. That may exhaust my French phrase quota for the year, but it’s worth it. The saying is the title of an essay by 19th century French economist Frederic Bastiat and means “that which is seen, and that which is not seen.”

    Bastiat’s essay is most famous for the “parable of the broken window,” in which a young boy shatters a shopkeeper’s window and, after some initial outrage, the villagers conclude that the rascal helped the local economy. Why?

    Because if no one broke windows, window makers would be out of business, and if window makers were out of business, they wouldn’t buy any more bread or shoes, hurting the bakers and cobblers. So the six francs the shopkeeper must spend for a new window is really a boon to the community.

    The problem with this argument can be gleaned from the title of Bastiat’s essay. By counting the money the shopkeeper spends to replace a perfectly good window (that which is seen), we ignore the money he might have spent on something else (that which is unseen). The shopkeeper might have instead dropped six francs on new shoes, a book or a bonus for his assistant. Those who celebrate the broken window as a generator of growth take “no account of that which is not seen.” ‘
    ~Jonah Goldberg

    http://townhall.com/columnists/JonahGoldberg/2009/08/05/how_much_is_that_clunker_in_the_window

  66. Zeke the Sneak says:

    Or try this at home:

    “Honey, I just had all of our perfectly good windows replaced with triple layer ion accelerating windows, which also repel lightning because they are specially doped glass, and additionally they harness the amazing runaway co2 greenhouse affect seen on Venus, thus reducing our heat bill in winter.

    All I had to do was take out a second, max out the credit cards, and use our vacation money to do it. Isn’t that great?!”

    Oh wait, maybe you shouldn’t try that at home.

  67. Ralph says:

    >>>Yet despite the soft-pedaling, the document reveals exactly why
    >>>electricity rates “necessarily skyrocketed” in Spain, as did the public
    >>>debt needed to underwrite the disaster.

    Not simply an economic disaster, but perhaps a social disaster too. As this report makes clear, the high proportion of windelecs (wind turbines) in Spain has led to grid instability and many ‘brownouts’ as a precursor to full blackouts.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article384768.ece?token=null&offset=12

    Rolling blackouts in a 24/7 technological society will inevitably lead to chaos and social unrest, as the majority of products and services fail. Delete electricity, and any modern society will go from the Technological Age to Stone Age in less than a year.

    .

  68. Ralph says:

    >>>As we in “nowhere” Oregon get covered with those monstrosities
    >>>only to be abandoned later….

    Hey, look on the bright side. In a few hundred years you will have a great cluster of tourist attractions – a bit like Stonehenge, but fabricated in mild steel and carbon composites.

    .

  69. Ralph says:

    >>>How does Obama manage to lecture anyone on profligate government
    >>>spending and for having an excessive deficit without his face turning
    >>beet red?

    Errm, not really possible, is it?

    .

  70. Ralph says:

    >>>The UK didn’t jump on the Euro bandwagon (they can) de-value
    >>> UK currency. That’ll stave off the collapse four or five years…

    No, the UK did not join the Euro and so can devalue and save the external deficit (although this will make external debt more expensive, and we hold a lot of that).

    The main UK problem is the internal (government) deficit, which is huge. They will need to reduce this at some point, and this will cause more unemployment and yet another economic slowdown.

    But don’t crow too much – the US is not far behind us in deficits.

    .

  71. homo sapiens says:

    The total futility of using windpower to generate electricity is demonstrated magnificently in “The Wind Farm Scam” (Independent Minds) by John Etherington (Paperback – 1 Sep 2009)

  72. Jbar says:

    Not everybody agrees with the leaked report:
    http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy09osti/46261.pdf which claims that the U Rey Juan Carlos study uses an unconventional methodology that does not directly measure job loss.

    http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/paltman/media/Rodriguez%20letter.pdf A letter from the Spanish gov’t to a US politician criticizing the report.

    http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/paltman/media/ISTAS%20_ENG.doc a translation of a response from a Spanish gov’t agency criticizing the URJC paper. (Which I got from here:

    http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/paltman/spain_rejects_calzada_spanish.html

    One blog calls the report’s author Calzada an “Exxon-funded libertarian”. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

    Now I don’t understand any of the BS either side says. It does seem to me however a little peculiar that the leaked report, written at a Spanish university, is as US-centric as it seems, so many references to US policy, so many references to Obama? It’s as if it were written for consumption in the U.S., not Spain. Wouldn’t you think they’d be more concerned in directing their attention toward the Spanish and EU governments? I was just wondering.

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