The same problem with Swiss temperature records. All have been made rising steeper by “homogenization”, by artificially decreasing the past anomalies.

Hmmm …. I guess maybe someone also forgot to tell the antarctic ice sheet, which has been in the process of INCREASING instead of decreasing for the past 30 years or so.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Global-Warming/Antarctic-ice-growing-not-shrinking-/articleshow/4418558.cms

Of course, the warming lobby has found a creative way to spin this as evidence of global warming too. “Well of course the antarctic ice sheet is increasing! If the waters surrounding the antarcrtic are warmer, then that means more evaporation, which means more precipitation in the form of snow, which then means more ice on the antarctic ice sheet!”

OK, now I understand. If the amount of ice in the world is decreasing, then it’s because of global warming. But if it’s increasing instead, then it’s because of global warming.

Got it. Thanks for clearing that up, fellas.

“The improver of natural knowledge absolutely refuses to acknowledge authority, as such. For him, scepticism is the highest of duties; blind faith the one unpardonable sin. And it cannot be otherwise, for every great advance in natural knowledge has involved the absolute rejection of authority, the cherishing of the keenest scepticism, the annihilation of the spirit of blind faith; and the most ardent votary of science holds his firmest convictions, not because the men he most venerates hold them; not because their verity is testified by portents and wonders; but because his experience teaches him that whenever he chooses to bring these convictions into contact with their primary source, Nature — whenever he thinks fit to test them by appealing to experiment and to observation — Nature will confirm them. The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification.”(Thomas Huxley)

http://www.nichols.edu/departments/Glacier/mb.htm

Good link, I’ve been looking for one like this, but not very hard.

So I don’t lose it, I’ve added it to my page http://wermenh.com/climate/6000.html on the glacial retreat of 5,000-7,000 years ago.

Semi off topic link. I hadn’t looked hard, but I hadn’t come across an information source for North American glaciers. I found Glacier Mass Balance in a blog entry. The site concentrates on the North America’s North Cascades, but has links to mass balance information from wider areas. The data thins out going before 1980, so most of it covers the warming phase of a PDO cycle and no data is included from before 1890 or so. However it is a good source of modern glacier information.

Real scientists would call a press conference and explain it all. They would open their records.

But NIWA are using cheap publica relations stunts and inlisting their spoin merchants with headlines like:-

“NZ sceptics lie about temp records, try to smear top scientist”

I can smell the pee in their pants. They are scared… KEEP AT ‘EM…

P.S. I still want the raw data so I can see for myself, but the Climate Coalitions Report is pretty damming

“

I’ve got the NZ Climate Coalition Report but that will take a lot of time to digitise the data.

Could anybody help with a URL? or similar

Glenn (20:22:39) :
…

‘ “…Such site differences are significant and must be accounted for when analysing long-term changes in temperature. The Climate Science Coalition has not done this.”

Nor can they, unless measurements from the Kelburn site were also measured prior to 1928 that would provide a comparison for pre-1928 historical temps to be corrected. That the sites are an average .8c different in 2009 doesn’t mean they were prior to 1928.’

“Actually it does. The difference that Reality_Check is discussing is a difference determined by physical law alone. The rule is that as altitude is gained, the atmosphere becomes physically cooler. Its why we head to the mountains in the summer for cooler weather. This has to do with the adiabatic lapse rate.”…

Actually is doesn’t. If it did we’d only need one station in the world measuring temperature and only altitudes for all other points. This is discussed further in the more recent thread.

Your point and counter-point are unrelated to “free speech” as the phrase is meant in the US legal arena. See this:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/30/on-climate-comedy-copyrights-and-cinematography/#more-9650

Therein, Anthony and others explain the concept and provide examples.

Now with this dam burst of information does this whole sorry mess show itself for what it is.

To use children in government TV adverts to engender fear, to bribe poorer affected communities into the acceptance of money and ‘collective responsibity’ for global warming, to villify those who ask for more reliable and peer evaluated scrutiny on the basis of this new religion of sorts, wherever it might impact is now being tested by the people. At last.

Copenhagen was perfect as a destination, it is the country’s main export – wind turbine technology. They fought to get the lion’s share of R&D grants in the UK, better, meaner and tougher than most. The concrete used in the building of the bases alone is in nightmarish quantities. The resultant Co2 colossal.

As a result, the hydro electric dams now serve as mere back up for the wind scam. The large generators replaced with smaller less productive ones owned by companies that run and own the wind farms.

No! I am not drifting off the subject. We have all been had, all of us. Some of us less than others. If the person who released this information is fearful or angry, he must too know that so many of us are grateful and relieved.

Others too might have the courage now.

Raw data have to be adjusted to correct for problems with the collection – like the fact that your new monitoring station isn”t able to be placed at the same altitude as the old one, for example.

Just on the offchance that you *will* believe everything you read, try http://hot-topic.co.nz/nz-sceptics-lie-about-temp-records-try-to-smear-top-scientist/

REPLY: see also the latest info on this issue on the main WUWT page – A