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	<title>Comments on: Hall of record ratios</title>
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		<title>By: Paul Vaughan</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/16/hall-of-record-ratios/#comment-226357</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Vaughan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[NCAR Press Release - November 12, 2009 - &lt;i&gt;&quot;Record High Temperatures Far Outpace Record Lows Across U.S.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;
http://www.ucar.edu/news/releases/2009/maxmin.jsp

&lt;i&gt;&quot;The study team analyzed several million daily high and low temperature readings taken over the span of six decades at about 1,800 weather stations across the country, thereby ensuring ample data for statistically significant results.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Comment:
Measures of statistical significance rest upon &lt;b&gt;untenable&lt;/b&gt; (in this context) assumptions of randomness, which &lt;i&gt;rip &amp; tear&lt;/i&gt; at the body of truth.

There is a &lt;i&gt;deeply-rooted&lt;/i&gt; epidemic in our statistical schooling.
This is epistemological.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NCAR Press Release &#8211; November 12, 2009 &#8211; <i>&#8220;Record High Temperatures Far Outpace Record Lows Across U.S.&#8221;</i><br />
<a href="http://www.ucar.edu/news/releases/2009/maxmin.jsp" rel="nofollow">http://www.ucar.edu/news/releases/2009/maxmin.jsp</a></p>
<p><i>&#8220;The study team analyzed several million daily high and low temperature readings taken over the span of six decades at about 1,800 weather stations across the country, thereby ensuring ample data for statistically significant results.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Comment:<br />
Measures of statistical significance rest upon <b>untenable</b> (in this context) assumptions of randomness, which <i>rip &amp; tear</i> at the body of truth.</p>
<p>There is a <i>deeply-rooted</i> epidemic in our statistical schooling.<br />
This is epistemological.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Vaughan</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/16/hall-of-record-ratios/#comment-225823</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Vaughan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 00:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=12867#comment-225823</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Ric Werme (18:05:17) &quot;Suppose further that
the temperature is a random process.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

You lost me right there (...as I pause to remember the various &amp; countless devout &amp; reverent tones in which I have heard that religious phrase [&lt;i&gt;&quot;suppose further that...&quot;&lt;/i&gt;] preached &amp; sung ...and as I recall naively-uncritical students obediently taking notes, during the indoctrination they received to blindly &lt;i&gt;swamp &amp; undermine&lt;/i&gt; the world with unrealistic modeling assumptions).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Ric Werme (18:05:17) &#8220;Suppose further that<br />
the temperature is a random process.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>You lost me right there (&#8230;as I pause to remember the various &amp; countless devout &amp; reverent tones in which I have heard that religious phrase [<i>"suppose further that..."</i>] preached &amp; sung &#8230;and as I recall naively-uncritical students obediently taking notes, during the indoctrination they received to blindly <i>swamp &amp; undermine</i> the world with unrealistic modeling assumptions).</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Vaughan</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/16/hall-of-record-ratios/#comment-225807</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Vaughan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 23:33:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=12867#comment-225807</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;DAV (06:05:45) &quot;The NCAR results are pointless [...]&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Keep in mind that Meehl has to:
a) survive the swarm of alarmist-sharks in his pool.
b) maintain funding for his solar / terrestrial hydro-cycle research.

Meehl seems sophisticated enough to maintain the required &quot;cordial&quot; relations by exercising (administratively) &quot;appropriate restraint&quot; &amp; careful timing of announcements regarding his solar-terrestrial findings.  He &lt;i&gt;may&lt;/i&gt; be the picture of a sufficiently-non-threatening &lt;i&gt;inside&lt;/i&gt;-player wielding &lt;i&gt;actual&lt;/i&gt; power (as opposed to the screaming-protester-type, throwing rocks at the ivory tower &lt;i&gt;from outside&lt;/i&gt;).  We may not know &lt;i&gt;for many years&lt;/i&gt; what his true game is... and we may never know.  If he is &lt;i&gt;really&lt;/i&gt; smooth, we may just be left to read between the lines in his solar-terrestrial papers.

As for these abstract simulation-studies based on &lt;i&gt;nonsense&lt;/i&gt;-assumptions: 

Academics are very fond of them for their &quot;cute effect&quot; (which is one proven way to attract academic attention, so long as you do not resort to it &lt;i&gt;too&lt;/i&gt; often). It is worth noting that academics don&#039;t always take &quot;cute&quot; research seriously (in physical terms), but they like it anyway because it &lt;i&gt;stimulates computational ideas&lt;/i&gt; [and that is hard stuff, even when CDOs (convenient dramatic oversimplifications) are made].  Spending a decade around math &amp; stats departments was helpful in learning the &quot;tricks of the trade&quot; - lots of coy smiles from clever players I assure you ...&amp; lots of &lt;i&gt;fooled&lt;/i&gt; grad students who don&#039;t recognize academic gaming right in their faces - you can build an &lt;i&gt;elaborate&lt;/i&gt; world with a strategic false assumption - and the troops are &lt;i&gt;conditioned to accept all assumptions without question&lt;/i&gt; ...and the smart players sit through presentations with a big grin on their faces, not blowing their colleagues&#039; cover.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>DAV (06:05:45) &#8220;The NCAR results are pointless [...]&#8220;</i></p>
<p>Keep in mind that Meehl has to:<br />
a) survive the swarm of alarmist-sharks in his pool.<br />
b) maintain funding for his solar / terrestrial hydro-cycle research.</p>
<p>Meehl seems sophisticated enough to maintain the required &#8220;cordial&#8221; relations by exercising (administratively) &#8220;appropriate restraint&#8221; &amp; careful timing of announcements regarding his solar-terrestrial findings.  He <i>may</i> be the picture of a sufficiently-non-threatening <i>inside</i>-player wielding <i>actual</i> power (as opposed to the screaming-protester-type, throwing rocks at the ivory tower <i>from outside</i>).  We may not know <i>for many years</i> what his true game is&#8230; and we may never know.  If he is <i>really</i> smooth, we may just be left to read between the lines in his solar-terrestrial papers.</p>
<p>As for these abstract simulation-studies based on <i>nonsense</i>-assumptions: </p>
<p>Academics are very fond of them for their &#8220;cute effect&#8221; (which is one proven way to attract academic attention, so long as you do not resort to it <i>too</i> often). It is worth noting that academics don&#8217;t always take &#8220;cute&#8221; research seriously (in physical terms), but they like it anyway because it <i>stimulates computational ideas</i> [and that is hard stuff, even when CDOs (convenient dramatic oversimplifications) are made].  Spending a decade around math &amp; stats departments was helpful in learning the &#8220;tricks of the trade&#8221; &#8211; lots of coy smiles from clever players I assure you &#8230;&amp; lots of <i>fooled</i> grad students who don&#8217;t recognize academic gaming right in their faces &#8211; you can build an <i>elaborate</i> world with a strategic false assumption &#8211; and the troops are <i>conditioned to accept all assumptions without question</i> &#8230;and the smart players sit through presentations with a big grin on their faces, not blowing their colleagues&#8217; cover.</p>
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		<title>By: DAV</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/16/hall-of-record-ratios/#comment-225606</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DAV]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:05:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=12867#comment-225606</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t know why we seem to keep going on about this. The NCAR results are pointless and tell us absolutely nothing beyond the indication that the record is woefully short. Whether or not a particular temperature exceeds a previous record is mere happenstance -- even if the underlying data were 100% accurate. This study&#039;s findings may have been significant if there had been a long spate &lt;i&gt;without&lt;/i&gt; any records broken and then suddenly more record events began to appear.

IMO the only valid critique can be summed up in two words: &quot;so what?&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know why we seem to keep going on about this. The NCAR results are pointless and tell us absolutely nothing beyond the indication that the record is woefully short. Whether or not a particular temperature exceeds a previous record is mere happenstance &#8212; even if the underlying data were 100% accurate. This study&#8217;s findings may have been significant if there had been a long spate <i>without</i> any records broken and then suddenly more record events began to appear.</p>
<p>IMO the only valid critique can be summed up in two words: &#8220;so what?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Beth Cooper</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/16/hall-of-record-ratios/#comment-225525</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Beth Cooper]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=12867#comment-225525</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Off thread:
Re  Anthony&#039;s  WUWT third year anniversary celebrations.
As my fire works display in Melbourne is being over shadowed by a global celebration, the Leonid Meteor Shower, I&#039;ve decided to postpone. (The charcoal BBQ still goes ahead!)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Off thread:<br />
Re  Anthony&#8217;s  WUWT third year anniversary celebrations.<br />
As my fire works display in Melbourne is being over shadowed by a global celebration, the Leonid Meteor Shower, I&#8217;ve decided to postpone. (The charcoal BBQ still goes ahead!)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Anders L.</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/16/hall-of-record-ratios/#comment-225507</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anders L.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:06:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=12867#comment-225507</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The &quot;urban heat island&quot; effect is often mentioned in the climate debate. And there are many, many urban heat islands in the world today. You could in fact talk about &quot;urban heat archipelagos&quot; in many parts of the world. So my question is - could some part of global warming be attributed to these? Is it possible that the world is warming because we are, well, heating it?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;urban heat island&#8221; effect is often mentioned in the climate debate. And there are many, many urban heat islands in the world today. You could in fact talk about &#8220;urban heat archipelagos&#8221; in many parts of the world. So my question is &#8211; could some part of global warming be attributed to these? Is it possible that the world is warming because we are, well, heating it?</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Beasley</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/16/hall-of-record-ratios/#comment-225480</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andy Beasley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 05:59:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=12867#comment-225480</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It seems to me that if the stations are biased toward warmer overnight lows and we have global warming, there would tend to be few, if any, record lows and a constant or increasing number of record highs. However, if the stations are biased because of siting and there is a stable or decreasing trend in temperatures, we would see fewer record highs and record lows. The record highs would not exist and the new record lows would be masked by station bias. The trend would be towards fewer records overall. But, hey, that&#039;s just me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me that if the stations are biased toward warmer overnight lows and we have global warming, there would tend to be few, if any, record lows and a constant or increasing number of record highs. However, if the stations are biased because of siting and there is a stable or decreasing trend in temperatures, we would see fewer record highs and record lows. The record highs would not exist and the new record lows would be masked by station bias. The trend would be towards fewer records overall. But, hey, that&#8217;s just me.</p>
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		<title>By: Ric Werme</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/16/hall-of-record-ratios/#comment-225403</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ric Werme]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 02:05:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=12867#comment-225403</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Robert Wood of Canada (14:58:16) :

&gt; 1/n suggests pink noise to me. Similar to 1/f noise in electronics.

Not the same.  Suppose we&#039;re tracking low temperature records (hey,
high temperature records get too much attention!  Suppose further that
the temperature is a random process.

In the first year, n=1, and the probablility of setting a record is 1/1.  This is sort of by definition, but it&#039;s the only special case.

In the second year, n=2, and probablility of setting a record is 1/2. In the 10th year, 1/10, etc.

By looking at the ratio of high records to low records, the random stream would continue with a 1::1 ratio indefinitely, and hence a warming or cooling trend will stand out as a change in the ratio.

Also, it&#039;s one heck of a good way to hide the really extreme decades, the general loss of station coverage and probably a couple other things that some people might want to hide.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert Wood of Canada (14:58:16) :</p>
<p>&gt; 1/n suggests pink noise to me. Similar to 1/f noise in electronics.</p>
<p>Not the same.  Suppose we&#8217;re tracking low temperature records (hey,<br />
high temperature records get too much attention!  Suppose further that<br />
the temperature is a random process.</p>
<p>In the first year, n=1, and the probablility of setting a record is 1/1.  This is sort of by definition, but it&#8217;s the only special case.</p>
<p>In the second year, n=2, and probablility of setting a record is 1/2. In the 10th year, 1/10, etc.</p>
<p>By looking at the ratio of high records to low records, the random stream would continue with a 1::1 ratio indefinitely, and hence a warming or cooling trend will stand out as a change in the ratio.</p>
<p>Also, it&#8217;s one heck of a good way to hide the really extreme decades, the general loss of station coverage and probably a couple other things that some people might want to hide.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Wood of Canada</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/16/hall-of-record-ratios/#comment-225292</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Wood of Canada]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 22:58:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=12867#comment-225292</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[1/n suggests pink noise to me. Similar to 1/f noise in electronics.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1/n suggests pink noise to me. Similar to 1/f noise in electronics.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: D. King</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/16/hall-of-record-ratios/#comment-225128</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[D. King]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:48:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=12867#comment-225128</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Temps are going up, no matter how cold it gets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF_t39TBvxc]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Temps are going up, no matter how cold it gets.</p>
<p><span style="text-align:center; display: block;"><a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/16/hall-of-record-ratios/"><img src="http://img.youtube.com/vi/jF_t39TBvxc/2.jpg" alt="" /></a></span></p>
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		<title>By: stumpy</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/16/hall-of-record-ratios/#comment-225126</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[stumpy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:44:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=12867#comment-225126</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think the bottom graph says it all, if that was published in the report I doubt it would have gained much attention. Of note, is how similar the 2000&#039;s are compared to the 1880&#039;s, stunning!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the bottom graph says it all, if that was published in the report I doubt it would have gained much attention. Of note, is how similar the 2000&#8242;s are compared to the 1880&#8242;s, stunning!</p>
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		<title>By: TH</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/16/hall-of-record-ratios/#comment-225121</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TH]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=12867#comment-225121</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[UAH and RSS data show that the past decade has been warmer than the previous few decades.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>UAH and RSS data show that the past decade has been warmer than the previous few decades.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ed in B.C.</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/16/hall-of-record-ratios/#comment-225119</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ed in B.C.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:20:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=12867#comment-225119</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oops - &quot;must-include&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops &#8211; &#8220;must-include&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ed in B.C.</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/16/hall-of-record-ratios/#comment-225118</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ed in B.C.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:19:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=12867#comment-225118</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If they were still on the global cooling/coming ice age shtick, the headline would be &quot;fewest number of record high temperatures since the 1880&#039;s&quot;. But seriously, this is a fabulous example of how to lie with statistics, and should the book of that name ever be updated and reprinted, this is a much-include example.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If they were still on the global cooling/coming ice age shtick, the headline would be &#8220;fewest number of record high temperatures since the 1880&#8242;s&#8221;. But seriously, this is a fabulous example of how to lie with statistics, and should the book of that name ever be updated and reprinted, this is a much-include example.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/16/hall-of-record-ratios/#comment-225105</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:00:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=12867#comment-225105</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There we go. Now we will be talking about minimum/maximum temperature record anomalies... why not talk about climate science abnormalities instead?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There we go. Now we will be talking about minimum/maximum temperature record anomalies&#8230; why not talk about climate science abnormalities instead?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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