According to documents obtained under Oregon’s public records law, agency officials estimated in a Nov. 16, 2006, spreadsheet that expanding the tax credits would cost taxpayers an additional $13 million in 2007-09. But after a series of scratch-outs and scribbled notes, a new spreadsheet pared the cost to $1.8 million.

Dave Barker, an analyst who is still with the agency, told The Oregonian that the initial cost estimates started high but got lower after he was told by his superiors to plug in smaller figures.

Uh…yeah, that’s what happens when you lower item costs…the total decreases (duh!), unless of course what you’re lowering is an inverse relationship.

“What I would hear pretty consistently was, ‘We want to keep it conservative,’” Barker said.

Uh…yeah, that’s a euphemism for “Let’s dishonestly lowball it and hope nobody notices.” I don’t know if this Barker guy is trying to put one over on the Oregonian, or if he’s just a sap. Sheesh. The way they pull a snow job! I swear, these people in the government there could pass for Enron and WorldCom executives. The difference is they never go to jail for it.

Go ahead, keep electing them.
They’ll make you poor, and put yu on welfare so you are dependent on them.

On what basis do you assess LEGITIMACY? Government backed fractional reserve banking most recently only goes back to 1913 in the US. The two previous US central banks were destroyed by Jefferson and Andrew Jackson.

Here are some thing I consider legitimate all of which the government backed banking cartel violates:

1. “Thou shall not bear false witness.”
2. “Thou shall not steal.”
3. numerous commands in the Torah against oppressing the poor.

I’d rather be insane than dishonest or oppress the poor, not for survival but for money.

Oh Jimmy. What is your interest in protecting the head (the Fed) of the banking cartel?

Like all fractional reserve banks I would bet that the Fed is honest to fractions of a penny in its inherently dishonest craft.

Sincerity? The Fed caused the Great Depression as Ben Bernanke admitted. That in turn, along with Fed financed US entry into WWI, caused WWII which killed 50 – 80 million. Also, the Great Depression gave major impetus to the socialism that has and is destroying the US.

““Penalty, moving the goal post … 15 yards” (JBS tactic number #323: MTGP in an assertion or during argument while ceding no ‘wrongness’ on the point)” _Jimmy

Good catch but a mere technically. Let the Fed now submit to a full audit. If it has done nothing wrong then what does it have to hide? (Don’t plead privacy, it has government privilege)

Actually, an audit of the Fed is a side issue and not really my cause. Abolish legal tender laws and the free market will eat the Fed, the dollar, and fractional reserve banking alive. And it won’t need gold or silver to do it.

Back2Bat[tty] (18:40:29) :

“I think we can lay that one to rest.” _Jim

Then it surely won’t mind another one then, should it? This time a full one.

FWEEEET! (Ref blows whistle)

“Penalty, moving the goal post … 15 yards” (JBS tactic number #323: MTGP in an assertion or during argument while ceding no ‘wrongness’ on the point)

- as you had said previously: “except notice how the Fed has never been audited”

I don’t sense a great degree of sincerity in this ruse of yours, so, I can’t really engage in the level of sparring that is warranted (its a ‘don’t wrestle with pigs kinda thing)

But I will continue on to say that audits are, and have been (as was shown above) and will continue to be a part of the process … witness, from ‘the fed’ itself:

From: http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/faqfrs.htm#9

The Board … are all subject to several levels of audit and review. Under the Federal Banking Agency Audit Act (enacted in 1978 as Public Law 95-320), which authorizes the Comptroller General of the United States to audit the Federal Reserve System … has conducted numerous reviews of Federal Reserve activities. In addition … [the] OIG audits and investigates Board programs and operations as well as those Board functions … . Completed and active GAO reviews and completed OIG audits, reviews, and assessments are listed in the Board’s Annual Report … .

The Board’s financial statements, and its compliance with laws and regulations affecting those statements, are audited annually by an outside auditor retained by the OIG. The financial statements of the Reserve Banks are also audited annually by an independent outside auditor. In addition, the Reserve Banks are subject to annual examination by the Board. The Board’s financial statements and the combined financial statements for the Reserve Banks are published in the Board’s Annual Report.

Have you and your friends from across the warp in the space/time continuum checked into this “Federal Banking Agency Audit Act” (in, um, your time and space continuum that is)? Is it applicable for what you are harping on about?

Have any of you guys read, inspected, perused or even shown to your two, three or four eyeballs (in your parallel universe) the referenced ‘Fed’ audit reports?

How come you guys (never doing any research it appears, aside from constant searches and re-seaches of the same old worn conspiracy-laden websites like lewrockwell, infowars and RonPaul.com) have never come across this information that I found in just a few minutes of searching LEGITIMATE web sites?

And finally, I have to say – you have to see our (or at least my) point or side of this issue – We can’t help but wonder out here, those of us living outside the ‘bubble’ of narrow (uninformed?) populist ideas, as we are questioning your, um, how can I say this gently, your sane-ness (your sanity?) just a little bit on these matters given actual fact and law on this subject.

Apologies beforehand for having to trouble the mods and Anthony with this material.
.
.
.

Then it surely won’t mind another one then, should it? This time a full one.

Back2Bat[s] (10:49:59) :

The “conspiracy”, though shrouded in deliberate mystery (except notice how the Fed has never been audited and strongly resists it), is out in the open.

… really??

“never been audited”.

Debunked: Myth #6: The Federal Reserve has never been audited.

Brief excerpt (if our host Anthony will allow):

How much truth is there to this claim? … This essay explores the claim that the Fed has never been audited and finds that it is completely false.

Scope of GAO Audits

Some of the more important GAO performance audits of the Fed have …

Audits By Private Accounting Firms

Financial audits of the Fed are also conducted regularly. … Price Waterhouse conducted an audit of the Board’s 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, and 1998 financial statements …

The Board has also contracted with Coopers & Lybrand to conduct annual financial audits of the Board and the individual Federal Reserve Banks.

I think we can lay that one to rest.
.
.
.

Thanks. I had little idea I had such a strong mind.

No, I don’t even care about conspiracies. In fact, they should be completely legal else we are dealing in “thought crimes”.

The “conspiracy”, though shrouded in deliberate mystery (except notice how the Fed has never been audited and strongly resists it), is out in the open.

If you haven’t noticed the big bank bailouts then you have not been paying much attention.

Keep trying. We all have to start somewhere.

I object to the characterization that the Plan has “little” chance of success by 2050. It has no chance of success, unless we can repeal the laws of physics and the rules of stoichiometry.

Back2Bat (04:56:13) :
… the world is run of, by and for a cheap counterfeiting cartel. Why on earth they think we must continue to use their pieces of paper is beyond me.

I need not offer the following admonition (admonition: the act or an instance of telling beforehand of danger or risk):

“Conspiracy theories are the tools of the weak-minded.”

- need I?

(Contrasted with, for instance, the advice to judiciously apply Occam’s Razor; surely one of the most/more useful analyis ‘tools’ one can have at one’s disposal?)

I think I’ll leave it at that.

Reference: The Lure of the Conspiracy Theory
.
.

At least with private enterprise and genuine competition some gas stations would have offered full serve in a rainy state. Banning self-serve seems silly.
Since when are fewer options better?

“It isn’t the state that won’t let us pump our own gas WE voted not to be FORCED to pump our own gas.” Richard Patton

I must have pulled up at the wrong pump then. So you do have self-serve in Oregon?
——————-
No, the citizens of the stated noticed that the gas companies were saying in getting the laws taken off the books on other states preventing self-service was a lie. They were saying it would cut prices and the motorist still would have the choice of having his gas pumped for him neither of which happened. Gas prices in Washington, Oregon, and Idaho are higher than Oregon and you HAVE to pump your own gas. So we decided that we didn’t want to get out in the rain for no benefit whatsoever.

Don’t mind _Jim, Lew_Rockwell is a great site for the better (best?) thinkers. You’re are on target; the world is run of, by and for a cheap counterfeiting cartel. Why on earth they think we must continue to use their pieces of paper is beyond me.

Purposefully left out was the winning answer?

You’re pretty good with straw yourself.

Actually, I think there is at least one high performance alternative to fractional reserve central banking using competing currencies and banks. It would use bank common stock as money.

But in any case, the burden of proof should be on those who oppose liberty, not those who defend it.