http://www.examiner.com/x-9111-SF-Environmental-Policy-Examiner~y2009m11d3-Global-warming-survey-results-Part-1

The AGW crowd offers us a reverse scenario much like the questions on this survey……. There is a button and if you push it the environment and thereby people will live but somewhere your money and your freedom will die.

“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

Joe

Including increased costs of gasoline, electricity, every single item you buy, every single service you buy, and every single tax you pay, how much money in dollars extra are you willing to pay yearly out of your already shrunken paycheck?

A) Zero
B) Up to five dollars
C) Up to one hundred dollars
D) Whatever the government wants to take
E) I think the government needs to start giving me my money back.

Fuller is not an AWGer. He was the blogger who, in cooperation with WUWT, helped to “out” Dr. Carlin’s suppressed EPA report. Here’s the link: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/06/25/source-inside-epa-confirms-claims-of-science-being-ignored-by-top-epa-management/

There are a couple of other links on this site that turn up if you use the site search box for “fuller”. One link that doesn’t turn up was his initial appearance here, when he posted a nasty response he’d received at RC to a list of skeptical questions he’d posted there. Quite a conversation developed from that, although I don’t recall the thread.

His questionnaire is the sort of questionnaire that any middle-of-the-road pollster would produce. The extreme criticisms of it are, I think, mostly based on a wrong guess about where he is coming from.

“If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way.”

“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.”

The ‘untainted planet in equilibrium despoiled by mankind’ and the ‘invisible hand that is always correct’ are the two opposing and equally ridiculous philosophies that do far more harm than good in this debate. I’d rather we looked for common goals as Fuller suggests. There are a lot of green ideas that can also achieve overall and individual cost savings and there are several ways that government can (and need to) push them to allow the market to pull.

Supposedly, the real science is now settled and carbon dioxide alone has been proved beyond any reasonable doubt to be the active agent of climate change. I do not doubt climate change, but I am skeptical that the “usual suspect” is the primary cause. It seems all too simple, especially as the impact of carbon dioxide is self-limited by a logarithmic law of diminishing effect. Even world renowned scientists can be members of a lynch mob or be victims of a group prejudicial derangement syndrome.
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To be fair, the mega-communalist mindset is widely shared. People raised in the legacy of freedom have rejected it. On the whole, we would rather be told where and how to live, think, speak, work, etc. than to embrace the freedom to choose those things for ourselves. The long history of humanity has almost always been feudal and authoritarian. Slavery and serfdom are ancient ways — the American experiment in individual liberty is brand new and completely different.

These days most people, including intelligent intellectuals (no offense, Tom), are loathe to even consider the possibility of free societies. The mindset is that humanity is bad and must be corralled and culled. Any excuse, no matter how bizarre and illogical (the AGW Scare is merely the latest in imaginary evils at the gates of the city), suffices to curtail freedoms, inflict burdens and suffering, and “unite” people into obedient herds.

It’s the same old story. Freedom isn’t free; in fact, it is more rare and precious than diamonds. And it is easily squandered and lost.

And that is what we are witnessing today, the decline and collapse of a short-lived experiment in freedom. It is the true big elephant in the room, that nobody wants to mention for fear of being seen as a kook. The idea of personal liberty has become old fashioned, outre, and jejune. Only the crazies desire it. The masses yearn for conforming authority and all its chains.

I don’t know why you list Fuller as a sceptic, except in his own estimation. But he is not, as he makes clear again and again he believes AGW is real and expects a 2 degree rise over the century.

Hi survey also makes that clear, I am not a US citizen and so will not comment on US policy questions: but the underlying assumption throughout the survey was that there is a problem and how best to fix it.

All of which probably puts him at the warm end of the lukewarm category.

Kindest Regards

Conservation and moving to greener energy sources are indeed a “no brainer,” in the sense that only a person with no brain thinks these are correct directions.

If human caused global warming is a scientific fraud–and it is–then “greener energy” in the less-CO2 sense is NOT a desideratum. Also, we are very clearly at present doing far too much conserving of energy, which is why our economy is collapsing.

Restrictions on energy development make energy prices artificially high, meaning that as people respond to these artificially high price signals, they end up conserving too much. We should NOT be conserving more. We should be conserving LESS.

The United States has the largest fossil energy reserves in the world by far, and we should be developing them full speed. We could revive our economy tomorrow just by literally “pouring on the coals.” Our trade deficit would reverse. We could pay down our national debt (as much of the land is gov. owned). All but for an anti-scientific hoax.

My question was do you think AGW is a smoke screen for the new world order?.
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Ditto. Halleluya. Nail. Head.

1. “I really want to know if there are concrete actions we can agree on without having a verdict on the global warming issue.”

Excuse me but if there is no global warming, where is the need for concrete action?

2. “Things that I feel are ‘no-brainers’ like conservation and moving to greener energy sources..”

He’s implying that we need greener energy sources, even if there is no global warming.

3. “We’re (too) busy shutting our eyes to good ideas because we don’t like the other guy’s politics.”

Good Ideas? Like what, wind mills? Fuller is confused. His assumption that the other guy (skeptics+republicans=blind) doesn’t like the idea because of politics. Dude, we don’t like it because fossil fuels work. Period.
We can integrate alternative energy as it becomes nessasary, feasible, and cost effective. I’m not willing to throw away good money to line the pockets of greenies.

4. “I mean, we do want to move forward, don’t we?”

(Drum Roll) … If someone doesn’t agree with the whole idea of taking action, then that person doesn’t want to move forward.

This survey and Fullers’ comment should shed light to the thinking of the mentality of the green agenda. Its like they are saying,’Please, if you won’t do it for us, please do it because its the right thing to do.’

Here, let me reverse that psychobabble for ya. Let’s use the fossil fuels we have here in our own country and find ways to stop relying on foreign consumption.

But with that being said, I’m not a skeptic because of any political connection. Its because AGW is based on bad science and I’m insulted that men like Fuller and his Ilk think that in order to be a skeptic, is only motivated by big business. The fact is that the average person, whose done any amount of research, drew a conclusion that AGW is a crock and the average skeptic is tired of the lies, manipulations and the ad hominum attacks from greenies.

Wake the hell up !

/rant off

The ticker is GWO.

This security started in April 2008, selling initially for $10 to $11 per share. It fell to $4 and has now climbed back to $6.75. Not exactly climbing like a rocket. see

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=GWO&t=2y&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=

If the world were warming, the seas were rising, hurricanes were growing more in number and strength, and the polar ice were melting, one would think that this particular security would be the best investment of all time. It should be zooming upward.

This is not a recommendation either to buy, sell, or hold any security, but is merely an observation that a certain security exists and factual comment on its past performance.