Thought this might be relevant

Table 13.4 is also interesting. It shows that the greatest number of storms, by far, occurred in the 1200s.
Many thanks, I look forward to reading it.
Chris

I’m obviously better organised than I thought. Here it is I think. There are lots of others so let me know if it wassn’t the one you were thinking of

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=u-sOAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA5&lpg=PA5&dq=olive+trees+england+middle+ages&source=bl&ots=WTPpDWDyWH&sig=WXhrKVnyRESur0RPFsuqutmllJs&hl=en&ei=YQPCSs-pF4mw4Qad87iLCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4#v=onepage&q=olive%20trees%20england%20middle%20ages&f=false

So it is in the interest of all to see a normal-high carbon consumption in the future. Thats why they’re expanding airports.

Actually, I don’t use incandescent bulbs – I use those new fangled CFL’s and I’ve got a couple of LED’s installed.

The BBC has been defending the rights of Nick Griffin to appear on Any Questions. I was wondering if they would do the same for a climate sceptic. I assumed they wouldn’t, as they probably think climate sceptics are far, far worse than the BNP. But now, after seeing Andrew Neil, I’m not so sure. Maybe there are grounds for hope after all….
Chris

@TonyB,
Tony, I believe that some time ago you gave a link that gave a large chunk of a book by H.H.Lamb. I had a look through, but neglected to save it. I would like to read it. Do you still have the link? Many thanks.
There is a connection with the Andrew Neil program. The other guest cited recent storms to prove how awful global warming is. These idiots seem to think that there were no storms or droughts until carbon dioxide was invented. However, I recall reading in Lamb’s book that, during the onset of the Little Ice Age, there were storms in England and western Europe that killed hundreds of thousands. I think that puts things into perspective….
Chris

Very interesting, but which of those activities is part of a Black Market? Which bits are illegal?

I was only asking that simple question.

What the Tyndall Centre seems to be advocating is that people should engage in buying a selling in a legal market.

My view is that it the scheme is somewhere between plain daft and truly disasterous it is just cap and trade on an individual basis and the likelihood of unexpected consequences is huge. But I expect that they would be legal.

Alex

I’m still not as pessimistic as you – if they can’t push your buttons there’s bound to be others that can’t be brainwashed. Quite a few, I should think.

And you haven’t said whether you want any of my incandescent lightbulbs yet!

Oct 21, 2009
Economic impacts from the promotion of renewable energies: The German experience

Final report – October 2009, Project team: Dr. Manuel Frondel, Nolan Ritter, Prof. Colin Vance, Ph.D

http://www.icecap.us

Comment from icecap:
Icecap Note: This mirrors the findings of Spain and Denmark. The administration points to these countries as models for future US energy reliance on renewables. We should be learning from their experience and NOT TREAD down the same failed paths. Read these stories and write/call or visit your congressman and senators. If they won’t read the 1500 page bills, maybe they will take the time to read these reports and reject their leaders flawed plans for the sake of their constituents and our and their futures.

>>>Indeed, how long? Note that the temperature in 1660
>>>at the depths of the Maunder Minimum was just what
>>>it was in the 1980s, at the height of the ‘Modern
>>>Maximum’, so perhaps it is time to stop fighting.

Not according to this graph Lief, which is in the “IPCC Crushes” thread above. Why don’t you acknowledge that you are out on a limb with your opposition to the Maunder Minimum?

http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/uploads/2000-years-Loehle.jpg

.

Let’s hope so.

.

Don’t be an *** Leif, it is not becoming of you. You know very well that there is good circumstantial evidence to link the Maunder and Dalton minimums to a colder climate, even if the precise mechanism is not yet fully understood.

You would be better off looking for possible causation factors, than taking the Micky out of anyone that dares to suggest a link.

.

Not according to the Defra scoping project, who have categorised the population into 7 distinct segments:
1.
Greens
Greens are driven by their belief that environmental issues are critical. They are well-educated on green issues, positively connected to arguments, and don’t see environmentally friendly people as eccentric.
2.
Consumers with a Conscience
Consumers with a conscience want to be seen to be green. They are motivated by environmental concern and seeking to avoid guilt about environmental damage. They are focused on consumption and making positive choices.
3.
Wastage Focused
This group are driven by a desire to avoid waste of any kind. They have good knowledge about wastage and local pollution, although they lack awareness of other behaviours. Interestingly this group see themselves as ethically separated from greens.
4.
Currently Constrained
Currently Constrained want to be green, they just don’t think there is much they can do in their current circumstances. They have a focus on balance, pragmatism and realism.
5.
Basic Contributors
This group are sceptical about the need for behaviour change. They tend to think about their behaviour relative to that of others and are driven by a desire to conform with social norms. They have a low knowledge of environmental issues and behaviours.
6.
Long Term Restricted
This group have a number of serious life priorities to address before they can begin to consciously consider their impact on the environment. Their everyday behaviours are often low impact for reasons other than environmental.
7.
Dis-interested
This group display no interest or motivation to change their current behaviours to make their lifestyle more pro-environmental. They may be aware of climate change and other environmental issues but this has not entered their current decision making processes.

As you will observe, the segment labled “skeptic” does not exist. No, we are all putty in the hands of these behaviourists once they press the right buttons.

Exactly my point – when people don’t sufficiently believe in the necessity for it they’ll find ways round it. Unless you have a ruthless dictatorship, of course…..
By the way, I couldn’t agree more with your point about your parents (and mine) living through real deprivation to build a world that had none for their children. The last 60 years have been a fantastic economic success (despite the best efforts of politicians) and to see all that at risk of being thrown away is infuriating.
Regards, DaveF.