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	<title>Comments on: Quote of the week #20 &#8211; ding dong the stick is dead</title>
	<atom:link href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/27/quote-of-the-week-20-ding-dong-the-stick-is-dead/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/27/quote-of-the-week-20-ding-dong-the-stick-is-dead/</link>
	<description>The world&#039;s most viewed site on global warming and climate change</description>
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		<title>By: Dr. Kasivishvanathan Sundar</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/27/quote-of-the-week-20-ding-dong-the-stick-is-dead/#comment-228360</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dr. Kasivishvanathan Sundar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:26:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11229#comment-228360</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great data... 

But, I do not understand the classification of human CO2 emissions - when I meant human, I did not mean the human activity but we as biological organisms (and other higher organisms that give out CO2) that contribute to the atmospheric carbon (as dioxide) - each of us probably (do check this) exhale 1 kg of CO2 every day; with population of 6 billion for humans alone, this would be 6 million tons a day - what about the other species that are around...?

And out of volcanoes on land that we can measure what is the ratio of the CO2 emitted by them to us burning the fossil (if it is really fossil - it could be from carbon compounds from even earlier in formation of our planet or is being formed right now under us) fuels - any data there?

But, wouldn&#039;t you think that the total carbon content of this planet as a whole that includes its crust would not change much and the atmospheric carbon would increase with time (whether man/life-form made or not)...?

And, are we really so much advanced to have understood all the processes that are involved - aren&#039;t we making tall claims one-way or other...?

My suggestion (what ever it is worthy of) is to follow the path of minimalism for a coming few centuries by every individual who has the conscious power to alter the surroundings - it is, maybe a distant hope...

I hope that these doesn’t offend anyone established in this field and it is just that I would like to highlight an alternative way of looking at things - do apologize my ignorance, if any...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great data&#8230; </p>
<p>But, I do not understand the classification of human CO2 emissions &#8211; when I meant human, I did not mean the human activity but we as biological organisms (and other higher organisms that give out CO2) that contribute to the atmospheric carbon (as dioxide) &#8211; each of us probably (do check this) exhale 1 kg of CO2 every day; with population of 6 billion for humans alone, this would be 6 million tons a day &#8211; what about the other species that are around&#8230;?</p>
<p>And out of volcanoes on land that we can measure what is the ratio of the CO2 emitted by them to us burning the fossil (if it is really fossil &#8211; it could be from carbon compounds from even earlier in formation of our planet or is being formed right now under us) fuels &#8211; any data there?</p>
<p>But, wouldn&#8217;t you think that the total carbon content of this planet as a whole that includes its crust would not change much and the atmospheric carbon would increase with time (whether man/life-form made or not)&#8230;?</p>
<p>And, are we really so much advanced to have understood all the processes that are involved &#8211; aren&#8217;t we making tall claims one-way or other&#8230;?</p>
<p>My suggestion (what ever it is worthy of) is to follow the path of minimalism for a coming few centuries by every individual who has the conscious power to alter the surroundings &#8211; it is, maybe a distant hope&#8230;</p>
<p>I hope that these doesn’t offend anyone established in this field and it is just that I would like to highlight an alternative way of looking at things &#8211; do apologize my ignorance, if any&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Smokey</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/27/quote-of-the-week-20-ding-dong-the-stick-is-dead/#comment-228212</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Smokey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:18:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11229#comment-228212</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dr. Kasivishvanathan Sundar,

To answer a couple of your questions...

Human CO2 emissions versus natural emissions:

http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/eia_co2_contributions_table3.png

We know too little about volcanoes. Those on land we can measure. But hundreds of thousands of new undersea volcanoes were recently discovered:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12218

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Kasivishvanathan Sundar,</p>
<p>To answer a couple of your questions&#8230;</p>
<p>Human CO2 emissions versus natural emissions:</p>
<p><a href="http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/eia_co2_contributions_table3.png" rel="nofollow">http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/eia_co2_contributions_table3.png</a></p>
<p>We know too little about volcanoes. Those on land we can measure. But hundreds of thousands of new undersea volcanoes were recently discovered:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12218" rel="nofollow">http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12218</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Kasivishvanathan Sundar</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/27/quote-of-the-week-20-ding-dong-the-stick-is-dead/#comment-228192</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dr. Kasivishvanathan Sundar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11229#comment-228192</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Even when I read blogs, I generally do not comment or participate in discussions - well, may be you could say that it is a retired attitude... But, I thought that this does invite a comment, even if late in making it.

The total carbon content of the world (when you include the core and the mantle of our earth) doesn’t change much as there aren&#039;t many carbon rich meteorites striking our world...

Given this, it is only the atmospheric content of carbon that is of concern. I would like, being a person not in the community, how much of carbon (as dioxide) a volcano gives out to what is given out by us mining these out and burning these. 

There may be fluctuation in climate that would encourage multiplication of carbon-fixing organisms to carbon-releasing organisms like us. Again another indicator would be the quantity of carbon-releasing organisms that exits compared to the carbon-fixing ones.

Whichever way you go the release of carbon to atmosphere cannot be slowed down whether we mine it or whether it is because of a natural causes like a volcano, or because of organisms like us. 

The increase in temperature due to higher CO2 will be compensated as there will be more water that will evaporate and cause a cloud cover that will decrease the temperatures over significant areas so as to lower the overall surface temperatures...

So, it would be a cycle - what is causing harm is deforestation to fix back the carbon that WE are emitting (not only through supposedly fossil fuels, but more by our own biological mechanisms - I would really like to have a figure as to the amount of CO2 that we as humans are releasing to the atmosphere). Fortunately we can not control the algae that grows in the Oceans which will/may revert back the equilibrium - but with epsilon deviation as time goes on, more carbon is released from our core and mantle, which cannot be stopped...

So, we need to accept that the average carbon content of the surface of earth will keep increasing (only if our Earth&#039;s core and mantle has not captured in their formative years those fragments with more carbon)

Two solutions... 
One - take tones of carbon lump formed by our life forms in space ships and throw it out in space.

Two, accept the climatic change, and increase the carbon-fixing organism and reduce the carbon-emitting organisms (this would mean that in the next million years, tentatively more that 80% of life here should be carbon fixing organisms)...!!!

I request all to understand the overall dynamics at a planet-level and think accordingly - people who cannot take a pike and do the ground work to contribute to the society by planting more plants, will talk anything to keep their bread/funds coming their way...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even when I read blogs, I generally do not comment or participate in discussions &#8211; well, may be you could say that it is a retired attitude&#8230; But, I thought that this does invite a comment, even if late in making it.</p>
<p>The total carbon content of the world (when you include the core and the mantle of our earth) doesn’t change much as there aren&#8217;t many carbon rich meteorites striking our world&#8230;</p>
<p>Given this, it is only the atmospheric content of carbon that is of concern. I would like, being a person not in the community, how much of carbon (as dioxide) a volcano gives out to what is given out by us mining these out and burning these. </p>
<p>There may be fluctuation in climate that would encourage multiplication of carbon-fixing organisms to carbon-releasing organisms like us. Again another indicator would be the quantity of carbon-releasing organisms that exits compared to the carbon-fixing ones.</p>
<p>Whichever way you go the release of carbon to atmosphere cannot be slowed down whether we mine it or whether it is because of a natural causes like a volcano, or because of organisms like us. </p>
<p>The increase in temperature due to higher CO2 will be compensated as there will be more water that will evaporate and cause a cloud cover that will decrease the temperatures over significant areas so as to lower the overall surface temperatures&#8230;</p>
<p>So, it would be a cycle &#8211; what is causing harm is deforestation to fix back the carbon that WE are emitting (not only through supposedly fossil fuels, but more by our own biological mechanisms &#8211; I would really like to have a figure as to the amount of CO2 that we as humans are releasing to the atmosphere). Fortunately we can not control the algae that grows in the Oceans which will/may revert back the equilibrium &#8211; but with epsilon deviation as time goes on, more carbon is released from our core and mantle, which cannot be stopped&#8230;</p>
<p>So, we need to accept that the average carbon content of the surface of earth will keep increasing (only if our Earth&#8217;s core and mantle has not captured in their formative years those fragments with more carbon)</p>
<p>Two solutions&#8230;<br />
One &#8211; take tones of carbon lump formed by our life forms in space ships and throw it out in space.</p>
<p>Two, accept the climatic change, and increase the carbon-fixing organism and reduce the carbon-emitting organisms (this would mean that in the next million years, tentatively more that 80% of life here should be carbon fixing organisms)&#8230;!!!</p>
<p>I request all to understand the overall dynamics at a planet-level and think accordingly &#8211; people who cannot take a pike and do the ground work to contribute to the society by planting more plants, will talk anything to keep their bread/funds coming their way&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: SamG</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/27/quote-of-the-week-20-ding-dong-the-stick-is-dead/#comment-204524</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SamG]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 09:09:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11229#comment-204524</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[dhaval, the previous Mann Hockey stick is discussed here:

http://www.climateaudit.org/index.php?p=166]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dhaval, the previous Mann Hockey stick is discussed here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.climateaudit.org/index.php?p=166" rel="nofollow">http://www.climateaudit.org/index.php?p=166</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Darrell</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/27/quote-of-the-week-20-ding-dong-the-stick-is-dead/#comment-198668</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Darrell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 03:37:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11229#comment-198668</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&gt; This wasn’t simply taken down, but disappeared without trace while I was reading it.

A blog post disappeared while you were reading it? Didn&#039;t think that was possible.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; This wasn’t simply taken down, but disappeared without trace while I was reading it.</p>
<p>A blog post disappeared while you were reading it? Didn&#8217;t think that was possible.</p>
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		<title>By: dhaval</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/27/quote-of-the-week-20-ding-dong-the-stick-is-dead/#comment-198357</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dhaval]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 13:55:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11229#comment-198357</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[hey,am dhaval from India. i appreciate Mr. McIntyre’s data evaluation. he has done a great job.thank you sir.the world needs to come out of ignorance. If you are confident over your data.then you should approach media. I think so there are many countries which are using the concept of global warming for their political interest. Also there is one request can u pl z send me the detail email of these result and comparison with the previous hockey stick graph on my mail. thank you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hey,am dhaval from India. i appreciate Mr. McIntyre’s data evaluation. he has done a great job.thank you sir.the world needs to come out of ignorance. If you are confident over your data.then you should approach media. I think so there are many countries which are using the concept of global warming for their political interest. Also there is one request can u pl z send me the detail email of these result and comparison with the previous hockey stick graph on my mail. thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/27/quote-of-the-week-20-ding-dong-the-stick-is-dead/#comment-197744</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Max]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 17:11:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11229#comment-197744</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh no!  Al&#039;s stick has gone limp.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh no!  Al&#8217;s stick has gone limp.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: philincalifornia</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/27/quote-of-the-week-20-ding-dong-the-stick-is-dead/#comment-196697</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[philincalifornia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 23:58:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11229#comment-196697</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kevin (15:36:02) :

I would certainly encourage publication in a peer-reviewed journal.  Would it go to ethical impartial reviewers without an agenda ??  I would hope so.

I&#039;ve been involved in peer review (on both sides) for over 30 years now, and I would submit to you that the playing field is changing dramatically with regard to peer review.  Publishing on this and other ethical non-censored sites invites vastly more intense and critical review than any private peer review would.  Although this is just my opinion, I think it&#039;s there for all to see and form their own opinions.  In other words, this is not, as you say, a wasted effort, because Briffa himself, and Mann, and Al Gore even can come on here and try to refute the scientific analysis.  

Good luck with that.  The sophomoric responses from Tamino and Gavin tells me that they would need it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin (15:36:02) :</p>
<p>I would certainly encourage publication in a peer-reviewed journal.  Would it go to ethical impartial reviewers without an agenda ??  I would hope so.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been involved in peer review (on both sides) for over 30 years now, and I would submit to you that the playing field is changing dramatically with regard to peer review.  Publishing on this and other ethical non-censored sites invites vastly more intense and critical review than any private peer review would.  Although this is just my opinion, I think it&#8217;s there for all to see and form their own opinions.  In other words, this is not, as you say, a wasted effort, because Briffa himself, and Mann, and Al Gore even can come on here and try to refute the scientific analysis.  </p>
<p>Good luck with that.  The sophomoric responses from Tamino and Gavin tells me that they would need it.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/27/quote-of-the-week-20-ding-dong-the-stick-is-dead/#comment-196662</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 22:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11229#comment-196662</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m wondering if my previous question was overlooked.  Do we have any info re when this work will be written up and submitted for publication in a peer reviewed journal?  If it won&#039;t be, why not?

This is the only way this sort of work will change anything.  It has to be submitted for review and published in an accepted scientific journal.  If it isn&#039;t, this is wasted effort.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m wondering if my previous question was overlooked.  Do we have any info re when this work will be written up and submitted for publication in a peer reviewed journal?  If it won&#8217;t be, why not?</p>
<p>This is the only way this sort of work will change anything.  It has to be submitted for review and published in an accepted scientific journal.  If it isn&#8217;t, this is wasted effort.</p>
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		<title>By: Jakers</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/27/quote-of-the-week-20-ding-dong-the-stick-is-dead/#comment-196654</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jakers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 22:26:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11229#comment-196654</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s just amazing how these tree rings have shown the world how wrong all the thermometers and satellites, and all the technology is!  The science community will have to find a new way to measure temperature, now that it&#039;s shown just how wrong all the measurements are!  It&#039;s cooling into a new ice age, not warming!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s just amazing how these tree rings have shown the world how wrong all the thermometers and satellites, and all the technology is!  The science community will have to find a new way to measure temperature, now that it&#8217;s shown just how wrong all the measurements are!  It&#8217;s cooling into a new ice age, not warming!</p>
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		<title>By: Spector</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/27/quote-of-the-week-20-ding-dong-the-stick-is-dead/#comment-196185</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Spector]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 10:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11229#comment-196185</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It looks to me that the signal to noise ratio in this dendro-data is very low.  If these numbers are based on tree-ring width alone, ignoring, for example, the O16 to O18 isotope ratio in the wood of each ring, then I can understand why the quality of such data might be so poor.

But the stick may not be dead yet.  I see that Senators Barbara Boxer and John Kerry have just introduced a proposed Cap-and-Trade bill with goals of lowering greenhouse gas emissions to 80 percent of 2005 levels by the year 2020, 58 percent of 2005 levels by 2030, and 17 percent of 2005 levels by 2050.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It looks to me that the signal to noise ratio in this dendro-data is very low.  If these numbers are based on tree-ring width alone, ignoring, for example, the O16 to O18 isotope ratio in the wood of each ring, then I can understand why the quality of such data might be so poor.</p>
<p>But the stick may not be dead yet.  I see that Senators Barbara Boxer and John Kerry have just introduced a proposed Cap-and-Trade bill with goals of lowering greenhouse gas emissions to 80 percent of 2005 levels by the year 2020, 58 percent of 2005 levels by 2030, and 17 percent of 2005 levels by 2050.</p>
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		<title>By: anna v</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/27/quote-of-the-week-20-ding-dong-the-stick-is-dead/#comment-196087</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[anna v]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 03:39:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11229#comment-196087</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[George E. Smith (18:10:59) : 

Hi George. Yes dendrites come from the same root, and are used to describe branchings similar to tree branches. I think it is an artificial word, in the sense that somebody used a greek root and created the word according to the grammar. Most of the scientific words are constructs from greek and latin, some of the ungrammatical. 

Most every day words over four syllables are of greek or latin origin anyway. I used to get great grades in reading comprehension examinations because of this, having had six years of ancient greek and four years of latin.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George E. Smith (18:10:59) : </p>
<p>Hi George. Yes dendrites come from the same root, and are used to describe branchings similar to tree branches. I think it is an artificial word, in the sense that somebody used a greek root and created the word according to the grammar. Most of the scientific words are constructs from greek and latin, some of the ungrammatical. </p>
<p>Most every day words over four syllables are of greek or latin origin anyway. I used to get great grades in reading comprehension examinations because of this, having had six years of ancient greek and four years of latin.</p>
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		<title>By: Lucy</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/27/quote-of-the-week-20-ding-dong-the-stick-is-dead/#comment-195916</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lucy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11229#comment-195916</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, this is bad, but it is not the &quot;most extreme example of scientific cherry-picking ever seen&quot;.  That title belongs to Ancel Keys cherry picked 7 nations to &quot;prove&quot; the lipid hypothesis.  The Low-Fat bunkum has killed untold millions and caused the suffering of God-only-knows how many millions more.

This hockey stick debacle has not killed millions yet, though it could have, gone unrebuked.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, this is bad, but it is not the &#8220;most extreme example of scientific cherry-picking ever seen&#8221;.  That title belongs to Ancel Keys cherry picked 7 nations to &#8220;prove&#8221; the lipid hypothesis.  The Low-Fat bunkum has killed untold millions and caused the suffering of God-only-knows how many millions more.</p>
<p>This hockey stick debacle has not killed millions yet, though it could have, gone unrebuked.</p>
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		<title>By: Harry Bergeron</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/27/quote-of-the-week-20-ding-dong-the-stick-is-dead/#comment-195837</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Harry Bergeron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:22:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11229#comment-195837</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Global Warming scare is not really a result of ignroance or stupidity.

It&#039;s a matter of the human impulse to manipulate and gain power over others, via the amazing strength of the herd instinct.  In other words, human nature.  

It causes me to consider mankind a failing experiment in evolution.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Global Warming scare is not really a result of ignroance or stupidity.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a matter of the human impulse to manipulate and gain power over others, via the amazing strength of the herd instinct.  In other words, human nature.  </p>
<p>It causes me to consider mankind a failing experiment in evolution.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary B.</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/27/quote-of-the-week-20-ding-dong-the-stick-is-dead/#comment-195793</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gary B.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 15:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11229#comment-195793</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As stated here, this entire &quot;Global Warming&quot; is insanity!  How do we, or can we, stop this worldwide mind-set and acceptance?  How have people become so gullable...is the general population of earth that ignorant?  I think a whole lot of people are educated BEYOND their intelligence!!  Common sense and proven science must prevail once again or we are all domed as a human race.  Wake up folks and understand that corrupt, unethical and immoral politics are destroying our lifes!  We are being feed lies every day bu the news media and we are laying back and accepting it...this to too sad!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As stated here, this entire &#8220;Global Warming&#8221; is insanity!  How do we, or can we, stop this worldwide mind-set and acceptance?  How have people become so gullable&#8230;is the general population of earth that ignorant?  I think a whole lot of people are educated BEYOND their intelligence!!  Common sense and proven science must prevail once again or we are all domed as a human race.  Wake up folks and understand that corrupt, unethical and immoral politics are destroying our lifes!  We are being feed lies every day bu the news media and we are laying back and accepting it&#8230;this to too sad!!</p>
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