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	<title>Comments on: Global Warming = more hurricanes &#124; Still not happening</title>
	<atom:link href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/22/global-warming-more-hurricanes-still-not-happening/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/22/global-warming-more-hurricanes-still-not-happening/</link>
	<description>The world&#039;s most viewed site on global warming and climate change</description>
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		<title>By: MattN</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/22/global-warming-more-hurricanes-still-not-happening/#comment-192932</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MattN]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 14:34:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11048#comment-192932</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Clemson University scientists also find no link between warming and stronger storms:  http://www.southcarolinaradionetwork.com/2009/09/23/study-refutes-connection-of-global-warming-and-storm-intensity/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clemson University scientists also find no link between warming and stronger storms:  <a href="http://www.southcarolinaradionetwork.com/2009/09/23/study-refutes-connection-of-global-warming-and-storm-intensity/" rel="nofollow">http://www.southcarolinaradionetwork.com/2009/09/23/study-refutes-connection-of-global-warming-and-storm-intensity/</a></p>
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		<title>By: jcl</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/22/global-warming-more-hurricanes-still-not-happening/#comment-192915</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jcl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:22:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11048#comment-192915</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OK, I dumped these to tinypic:

Hurricane energy versus temp (with temp slope removed for easier comparison)
http://tinypic.com/r/2ivmwpd/4
http://i36.tinypic.com/2ivmwpd.jpg

It looked like they&#039;d line up better with temp moved back one year so:
Hurricane energy versus temp offset back on year (temp slope removed)
http://tinypic.com/r/331kbjt/4
http://i36.tinypic.com/331kbjt.jpg

All of this of course means absolutely nothing, I just thought it was an interesting experiment....the skewed (by one year) temp graph seems to show some correlation with hurricane energy.

jcl (12:55:37) :

Just for kicks, I overlaid the hurricane and temp data (after removing the temp data slope), and it doesn’t line up that well. If you offset the temp data by a year, it doesn’t look too bad though. I don’t know how to include those charts/pics here (done in Excel).

Jim

REPLY: use a free image service like http://tinypic.com/ and put the URL to the image in your comments. It will auto-link.

-Anthony]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, I dumped these to tinypic:</p>
<p>Hurricane energy versus temp (with temp slope removed for easier comparison)<br />
<a href="http://tinypic.com/r/2ivmwpd/4" rel="nofollow">http://tinypic.com/r/2ivmwpd/4</a><br />
<a href="http://i36.tinypic.com/2ivmwpd.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://i36.tinypic.com/2ivmwpd.jpg</a></p>
<p>It looked like they&#8217;d line up better with temp moved back one year so:<br />
Hurricane energy versus temp offset back on year (temp slope removed)<br />
<a href="http://tinypic.com/r/331kbjt/4" rel="nofollow">http://tinypic.com/r/331kbjt/4</a><br />
<a href="http://i36.tinypic.com/331kbjt.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://i36.tinypic.com/331kbjt.jpg</a></p>
<p>All of this of course means absolutely nothing, I just thought it was an interesting experiment&#8230;.the skewed (by one year) temp graph seems to show some correlation with hurricane energy.</p>
<p>jcl (12:55:37) :</p>
<p>Just for kicks, I overlaid the hurricane and temp data (after removing the temp data slope), and it doesn’t line up that well. If you offset the temp data by a year, it doesn’t look too bad though. I don’t know how to include those charts/pics here (done in Excel).</p>
<p>Jim</p>
<p>REPLY: use a free image service like <a href="http://tinypic.com/" rel="nofollow">http://tinypic.com/</a> and put the URL to the image in your comments. It will auto-link.</p>
<p>-Anthony</p>
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		<title>By: Joey Rosa</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/22/global-warming-more-hurricanes-still-not-happening/#comment-192571</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joey Rosa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 17:26:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11048#comment-192571</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[why is hurricanes are not effected by global warming can you tell me the details asap]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>why is hurricanes are not effected by global warming can you tell me the details asap</p>
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		<title>By: MartinGAtkins</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/22/global-warming-more-hurricanes-still-not-happening/#comment-192516</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MartinGAtkins]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 15:42:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11048#comment-192516</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[timetochooseagain (15:19:13) :

&lt;i&gt;MartinGAtkins (12:56:57) : Short term ACE in the Atlantic depends on ENSO conditions&lt;/i&gt;

Reply is in new Cyclone thread.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>timetochooseagain (15:19:13) :</p>
<p><i>MartinGAtkins (12:56:57) : Short term ACE in the Atlantic depends on ENSO conditions</i></p>
<p>Reply is in new Cyclone thread.</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/22/global-warming-more-hurricanes-still-not-happening/#comment-192495</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Charlie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 14:38:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11048#comment-192495</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Resilient Earth blog has a link to an interesting paper on Water Vapor which includes a comment about models showing _lower_ cyclone potential for both warmer and cooler climates that today&#039;s.   http://theresilientearth.com/?q=content/climate-models-blown-away-water-vapor

&quot;Both the eddy kinetic energy and the dry mean available
potential energy have a maximum for a climate
close to that of present day
Earth and are smaller in
much warmer and much colder climates&quot;

Ref: http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0908/0908.4410v1.pdf , WATER VAPOR AND THE DYNAMICS OF CLIMATE CHANGES, by T Schneider, P O’Gorman, and X Levine.   Page 14 of the pdf.  Figure 8.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Resilient Earth blog has a link to an interesting paper on Water Vapor which includes a comment about models showing _lower_ cyclone potential for both warmer and cooler climates that today&#8217;s.   <a href="http://theresilientearth.com/?q=content/climate-models-blown-away-water-vapor" rel="nofollow">http://theresilientearth.com/?q=content/climate-models-blown-away-water-vapor</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Both the eddy kinetic energy and the dry mean available<br />
potential energy have a maximum for a climate<br />
close to that of present day<br />
Earth and are smaller in<br />
much warmer and much colder climates&#8221;</p>
<p>Ref: <a href="http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0908/0908.4410v1.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0908/0908.4410v1.pdf</a> , WATER VAPOR AND THE DYNAMICS OF CLIMATE CHANGES, by T Schneider, P O’Gorman, and X Levine.   Page 14 of the pdf.  Figure 8.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan the Brit</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/22/global-warming-more-hurricanes-still-not-happening/#comment-192470</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alan the Brit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:24:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11048#comment-192470</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you Mr Watts.  I thought it would be something like that, although for a moment I thought Dr Vicki Pope from the Met Office was running a version of her old little graph of global temps, which is aired every now &amp; then, curiously stopped in 2007, demonstrating beyond a doubt the warming going on as usual, just before the 2008 temp step drop &amp; further cooling in 09, so that the trend stayed positive!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Mr Watts.  I thought it would be something like that, although for a moment I thought Dr Vicki Pope from the Met Office was running a version of her old little graph of global temps, which is aired every now &amp; then, curiously stopped in 2007, demonstrating beyond a doubt the warming going on as usual, just before the 2008 temp step drop &amp; further cooling in 09, so that the trend stayed positive!</p>
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		<title>By: JER0ME</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/22/global-warming-more-hurricanes-still-not-happening/#comment-192415</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JER0ME]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 08:20:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11048#comment-192415</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What strikes me is the southern hemisphere values (ie global - northern hemisphere) are pretty consistent year to year, while NH fluctuates wildly. Is that really the case?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What strikes me is the southern hemisphere values (ie global &#8211; northern hemisphere) are pretty consistent year to year, while NH fluctuates wildly. Is that really the case?</p>
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		<title>By: p.g.sharrow  "PG"</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/22/global-warming-more-hurricanes-still-not-happening/#comment-192403</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[p.g.sharrow  "PG"]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 07:36:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11048#comment-192403</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Maybe the propensity to fudge or round up the atmospheric temperature is causing the temperature to appear to ramp up as hurricane activity goes down. Sensor data from satellites is adjusted ( calibrated ) to match known surface data points.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe the propensity to fudge or round up the atmospheric temperature is causing the temperature to appear to ramp up as hurricane activity goes down. Sensor data from satellites is adjusted ( calibrated ) to match known surface data points.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: ralph</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/22/global-warming-more-hurricanes-still-not-happening/#comment-192383</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ralph]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 06:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11048#comment-192383</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&gt;&gt;&gt;Unfortunately, every article I have read that explains why 
&gt;&gt;&gt;hurricane strength is anticipated to increase merely cites 
&gt;&gt;&gt;the observed link between hurricane strength and ocean 
&gt;&gt;&gt;temperature, without explaining why CO2 would cause 
&gt;&gt;&gt;water tempertaures to rise more than that of the air above it.

A similar observation to mine.

Yes, to get a really good tropical storm, you need tropical warm waters and an arctic airflow above it, giving a huge temperature gradient in the atmosphere (low level warm air and freezing air above). 

A warm atmosphere will kill thermic activity dead.

.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt;&gt;Unfortunately, every article I have read that explains why<br />
&gt;&gt;&gt;hurricane strength is anticipated to increase merely cites<br />
&gt;&gt;&gt;the observed link between hurricane strength and ocean<br />
&gt;&gt;&gt;temperature, without explaining why CO2 would cause<br />
&gt;&gt;&gt;water tempertaures to rise more than that of the air above it.</p>
<p>A similar observation to mine.</p>
<p>Yes, to get a really good tropical storm, you need tropical warm waters and an arctic airflow above it, giving a huge temperature gradient in the atmosphere (low level warm air and freezing air above). </p>
<p>A warm atmosphere will kill thermic activity dead.</p>
<p>.</p>
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		<title>By: Kurt</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/22/global-warming-more-hurricanes-still-not-happening/#comment-192377</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kurt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 05:48:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11048#comment-192377</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[pete m (20:04:01) : 

&quot;Look at 2 scenarios:

A – present – say the temperature differential is 15 degrees.

B – global warming – increase air temp by 2 degrees, but oceans are not as fast, and lag, so increase them by 1 degree. The temperature differntial is then 16 degrees.&quot;

You have it backwards. Temperature decreases with altitude, meaning that the air above is cooler than that below. That is why warm, moist air rises until it cools to a temperature that squeezes the moisture out as rain. Were the air above to be warmer than the surface, hurricanes could not form. Thus, if the (cooler) air above warms by two degrees and the (warmer) sea surface warms by only one, then the differential in your scenario drops from 15 to 14, decreasing the strength of the hurricane.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pete m (20:04:01) : </p>
<p>&#8220;Look at 2 scenarios:</p>
<p>A – present – say the temperature differential is 15 degrees.</p>
<p>B – global warming – increase air temp by 2 degrees, but oceans are not as fast, and lag, so increase them by 1 degree. The temperature differntial is then 16 degrees.&#8221;</p>
<p>You have it backwards. Temperature decreases with altitude, meaning that the air above is cooler than that below. That is why warm, moist air rises until it cools to a temperature that squeezes the moisture out as rain. Were the air above to be warmer than the surface, hurricanes could not form. Thus, if the (cooler) air above warms by two degrees and the (warmer) sea surface warms by only one, then the differential in your scenario drops from 15 to 14, decreasing the strength of the hurricane.</p>
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		<title>By: AEGeneral</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/22/global-warming-more-hurricanes-still-not-happening/#comment-192350</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AEGeneral]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 03:54:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11048#comment-192350</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt; Ron de Haan (09:52:11) :

Is there any legislation that could protect the public from hysterical and misleading media outages in the USA?&lt;/i&gt;

Nope. We&#039;re going to have to either buy them out &amp; take over or prevent the government from bailing them out (which I&#039;ve heard recently that they&#039;re asking for) and force them into bankruptcy.

As for the global warming/hurricane link, it&#039;s depressing to read how many media articles regularly reference it as a foregone conclusion. It just makes my blood boil thinking about how many kids are being fed this in classrooms every day.

There is a link between global warming &amp; my blood boiling, however....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> Ron de Haan (09:52:11) :</p>
<p>Is there any legislation that could protect the public from hysterical and misleading media outages in the USA?</i></p>
<p>Nope. We&#8217;re going to have to either buy them out &amp; take over or prevent the government from bailing them out (which I&#8217;ve heard recently that they&#8217;re asking for) and force them into bankruptcy.</p>
<p>As for the global warming/hurricane link, it&#8217;s depressing to read how many media articles regularly reference it as a foregone conclusion. It just makes my blood boil thinking about how many kids are being fed this in classrooms every day.</p>
<p>There is a link between global warming &amp; my blood boiling, however&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: pete m</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/22/global-warming-more-hurricanes-still-not-happening/#comment-192331</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pete m]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 03:04:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11048#comment-192331</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[kurt (16:42:32):

Look at 2 scenarios:

A - present - say the temperature differential is 15 degrees.

B - global warming - increase air temp by 2 degrees, but oceans are not as fast, and lag, so increase them by 1 degree.  The temperature differntial is then 16 degrees.  

So a higher temperature differential is the result and this means more hurricanes according to the basic premise that the higher the differntial the more storms etc.  I don&#039;t really agree, as it ignores other apsects of climate, but perhaps the energy sum would increase.

One thing that everyone gets excited about is positive feedbacks and tipping points etc.

One thing that I would like studied is the balancing nature of our climate (ie negative feedbacks).  Our climate has a lot of checks and balances in it and these are not well understood imho.

I&#039;m all for reducing our emissions responsibly - it can only be a good thing to not be ignorant of our use of resources.  But let&#039;s not scare everyone into thinking our poor little climate is &quot;fragile&quot; etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kurt (16:42:32):</p>
<p>Look at 2 scenarios:</p>
<p>A &#8211; present &#8211; say the temperature differential is 15 degrees.</p>
<p>B &#8211; global warming &#8211; increase air temp by 2 degrees, but oceans are not as fast, and lag, so increase them by 1 degree.  The temperature differntial is then 16 degrees.  </p>
<p>So a higher temperature differential is the result and this means more hurricanes according to the basic premise that the higher the differntial the more storms etc.  I don&#8217;t really agree, as it ignores other apsects of climate, but perhaps the energy sum would increase.</p>
<p>One thing that everyone gets excited about is positive feedbacks and tipping points etc.</p>
<p>One thing that I would like studied is the balancing nature of our climate (ie negative feedbacks).  Our climate has a lot of checks and balances in it and these are not well understood imho.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m all for reducing our emissions responsibly &#8211; it can only be a good thing to not be ignorant of our use of resources.  But let&#8217;s not scare everyone into thinking our poor little climate is &#8220;fragile&#8221; etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/22/global-warming-more-hurricanes-still-not-happening/#comment-192322</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Thomas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 02:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11048#comment-192322</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So how does Obama get away with saying that AGW is causing more extreme storms. It&#039;s an outright lie, yet he mentions it again in his most recent speach (read it at nytimes)

What a joke. Someone should really call this puppet out on his bullshit]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So how does Obama get away with saying that AGW is causing more extreme storms. It&#8217;s an outright lie, yet he mentions it again in his most recent speach (read it at nytimes)</p>
<p>What a joke. Someone should really call this puppet out on his bullshit</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Alberts</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/22/global-warming-more-hurricanes-still-not-happening/#comment-192303</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff Alberts]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 01:54:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11048#comment-192303</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Ryan Maue from Florida State University explains why&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Surely you mean he speculates as to why. They sure as hell don&#039;t know.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Ryan Maue from Florida State University explains why</p></blockquote>
<p>Surely you mean he speculates as to why. They sure as hell don&#8217;t know.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: kurt</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/22/global-warming-more-hurricanes-still-not-happening/#comment-192265</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kurt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 00:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=11048#comment-192265</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;TERRY46 (05:55:04) : 

Last night I was watching the weather channel and Jim Cantori was in Georgia. He was talking about all the rain they have had recently. He said and I repeat if this isn’t CLIMATE CHANGE I don’t know what is.&quot;

Read literally, Cantori&#039;s statement sounds pretty accurate to me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;TERRY46 (05:55:04) : </p>
<p>Last night I was watching the weather channel and Jim Cantori was in Georgia. He was talking about all the rain they have had recently. He said and I repeat if this isn’t CLIMATE CHANGE I don’t know what is.&#8221;</p>
<p>Read literally, Cantori&#8217;s statement sounds pretty accurate to me.</p>
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