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	<title>Comments on: Livingston and Penn in EOS: Are Sunspots Different During This Solar Minimum?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/08/15/livingston-and-penn-in-eos-are-sunspots-different-during-this-solar-minimum/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/08/15/livingston-and-penn-in-eos-are-sunspots-different-during-this-solar-minimum/</link>
	<description>The world&#039;s most viewed site on global warming and climate change</description>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/08/15/livingston-and-penn-in-eos-are-sunspots-different-during-this-solar-minimum/#comment-175577</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 02:12:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9928#comment-175577</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[noaaprogrammer (14:25:18) :
&lt;i&gt;In the future, if SC24 turns out to look like the beginning of sunspot sputterings similar to those of the Maunder Minimum, will NOAA’s Solar Cycle Prediction Panel solicit predictions on those sputterings from planetary theorists?&lt;/i&gt;
There were some this time around too.

Geoff Sharp (01:06:30) :
&lt;i&gt;There is a possibility of co-authorship in the wind, and perhaps a conference appearance so perhaps you are right, the remarkable result might pave its own way.&lt;/i&gt;
The editor might even ask me to review the paper....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>noaaprogrammer (14:25:18) :<br />
<i>In the future, if SC24 turns out to look like the beginning of sunspot sputterings similar to those of the Maunder Minimum, will NOAA’s Solar Cycle Prediction Panel solicit predictions on those sputterings from planetary theorists?</i><br />
There were some this time around too.</p>
<p>Geoff Sharp (01:06:30) :<br />
<i>There is a possibility of co-authorship in the wind, and perhaps a conference appearance so perhaps you are right, the remarkable result might pave its own way.</i><br />
The editor might even ask me to review the paper&#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Geoff Sharp</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/08/15/livingston-and-penn-in-eos-are-sunspots-different-during-this-solar-minimum/#comment-175568</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Geoff Sharp]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 01:35:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9928#comment-175568</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard (06:31:58) :

&lt;i&gt;Geoff Sharp (01:06:30) :
However, you should organize your work and try to write some paper and publish it.
-------------------------
Should be easy for you with such a remarkable result.&lt;/i&gt;

There is a possibility of co-authorship in the wind, and perhaps a conference appearance so perhaps you are right, the remarkable result might pave its own way.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leif Svalgaard (06:31:58) :</p>
<p><i>Geoff Sharp (01:06:30) :<br />
However, you should organize your work and try to write some paper and publish it.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-<br />
Should be easy for you with such a remarkable result.</i></p>
<p>There is a possibility of co-authorship in the wind, and perhaps a conference appearance so perhaps you are right, the remarkable result might pave its own way.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Geoff Sharp</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/08/15/livingston-and-penn-in-eos-are-sunspots-different-during-this-solar-minimum/#comment-175550</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Geoff Sharp]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 00:56:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9928#comment-175550</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[noaaprogrammer (14:25:18) :

&lt;i&gt;In the future, if SC24 turns out to look like the beginning of sunspot sputterings similar to those of the Maunder Minimum, will NOAA’s Solar Cycle Prediction Panel solicit predictions on those sputterings from planetary theorists?&lt;/i&gt;

Once the old guard is removed there is no doubt.....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>noaaprogrammer (14:25:18) :</p>
<p><i>In the future, if SC24 turns out to look like the beginning of sunspot sputterings similar to those of the Maunder Minimum, will NOAA’s Solar Cycle Prediction Panel solicit predictions on those sputterings from planetary theorists?</i></p>
<p>Once the old guard is removed there is no doubt&#8230;..</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: noaaprogrammer</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/08/15/livingston-and-penn-in-eos-are-sunspots-different-during-this-solar-minimum/#comment-175464</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[noaaprogrammer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9928#comment-175464</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In the future, if SC24 turns out to look like the beginning of sunspot sputterings similar to those of the Maunder Minimum, will NOAA&#039;s Solar Cycle Prediction Panel solicit predictions on those sputterings from planetary theorists?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the future, if SC24 turns out to look like the beginning of sunspot sputterings similar to those of the Maunder Minimum, will NOAA&#8217;s Solar Cycle Prediction Panel solicit predictions on those sputterings from planetary theorists?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/08/15/livingston-and-penn-in-eos-are-sunspots-different-during-this-solar-minimum/#comment-175200</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:31:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9928#comment-175200</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Geoff Sharp (01:06:30) :
&lt;i&gt;However, you should organize your work and try to write some paper and publish it.&lt;/i&gt;
Should be easy for you with such a remarkable result.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geoff Sharp (01:06:30) :<br />
<i>However, you should organize your work and try to write some paper and publish it.</i><br />
Should be easy for you with such a remarkable result.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/08/15/livingston-and-penn-in-eos-are-sunspots-different-during-this-solar-minimum/#comment-175198</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:30:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9928#comment-175198</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[vukcevic (01:46:34) :
&lt;i&gt;( p.s. but are they any good ? )&lt;/i&gt;
They are better. You see, We can learn.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>vukcevic (01:46:34) :<br />
<i>( p.s. but are they any good ? )</i><br />
They are better. You see, We can learn.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: vukcevic</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/08/15/livingston-and-penn-in-eos-are-sunspots-different-during-this-solar-minimum/#comment-175133</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vukcevic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 08:46:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9928#comment-175133</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[vukcevic (15:23:30) :
Hathaway: “EARLIER MODELS WERE FATALLY FLAWED.”
Leif Svalgaard (22:26:44) : 
So? Our new ones are better.

I will treasure this one !

( p.s. but are they any good ? )]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>vukcevic (15:23:30) :<br />
Hathaway: “EARLIER MODELS WERE FATALLY FLAWED.”<br />
Leif Svalgaard (22:26:44) :<br />
So? Our new ones are better.</p>
<p>I will treasure this one !</p>
<p>( p.s. but are they any good ? )</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Geoff Sharp</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/08/15/livingston-and-penn-in-eos-are-sunspots-different-during-this-solar-minimum/#comment-175116</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Geoff Sharp]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 08:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9928#comment-175116</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard (23:38:34) :

&lt;i&gt;Geoff Sharp (17:31:30) :
Scaffetta is not aware of the N/U factor
------------
So cannot be agreeing with you. Tell us what his answer to your email is when [if] it arrives.&lt;/i&gt;

He agrees and shows the solar modulation caused by the solar distance...that is the crux. The N/U factor will come.

his email reply as follows:

Geoff
 
I gave a look at your web-site.
 
I do believe that your web site looks interesting. However, you should organize your work and try to write some paper and publish it. 
There are scientific journals that do not ask any fee. 
 
So you may try to prepare a manuscript and submit it. 
 
 
 
nicola]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leif Svalgaard (23:38:34) :</p>
<p><i>Geoff Sharp (17:31:30) :<br />
Scaffetta is not aware of the N/U factor<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;<br />
So cannot be agreeing with you. Tell us what his answer to your email is when [if] it arrives.</i></p>
<p>He agrees and shows the solar modulation caused by the solar distance&#8230;that is the crux. The N/U factor will come.</p>
<p>his email reply as follows:</p>
<p>Geoff</p>
<p>I gave a look at your web-site.</p>
<p>I do believe that your web site looks interesting. However, you should organize your work and try to write some paper and publish it.<br />
There are scientific journals that do not ask any fee. </p>
<p>So you may try to prepare a manuscript and submit it. </p>
<p>nicola</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/08/15/livingston-and-penn-in-eos-are-sunspots-different-during-this-solar-minimum/#comment-175083</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 06:38:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9928#comment-175083</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Geoff Sharp (17:31:30) :
&lt;i&gt;Scaffetta is not aware of the N/U factor&lt;/i&gt;
So cannot be agreeing with you. Tell us what his answer to your email is when [if] it arrives.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geoff Sharp (17:31:30) :<br />
<i>Scaffetta is not aware of the N/U factor</i><br />
So cannot be agreeing with you. Tell us what his answer to your email is when [if] it arrives.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/08/15/livingston-and-penn-in-eos-are-sunspots-different-during-this-solar-minimum/#comment-175064</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 05:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9928#comment-175064</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[vukcevic (15:23:30) :
&lt;i&gt;Hathaway: “EARLIER MODELS WERE FATALLY FLAWED.”&lt;/i&gt;
So? Our new ones are better.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>vukcevic (15:23:30) :<br />
<i>Hathaway: “EARLIER MODELS WERE FATALLY FLAWED.”</i><br />
So? Our new ones are better.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Geoff Sharp</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/08/15/livingston-and-penn-in-eos-are-sunspots-different-during-this-solar-minimum/#comment-174961</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Geoff Sharp]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 00:31:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9928#comment-174961</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard (07:39:29) :

&lt;i&gt;Geoff Sharp (00:06:29) :
I noticed in Scafetta’s presentation he agrees with me and shows how solar Angular Momentum/Solar distance to SSB is the driver of the modulation of the solar cycle.
--------------------------------------------------
He does not agree with you at all. He refers to Jose. There is no mention of your notion of Neptune/Uranus running the show. Scafetta muses about a 60-year cycle, no 172-year cycle. He draws attention [and mars his presentation] to a 60-yr quasi-period in CMSS and possibly in the LOD. No Grand Minimum.&lt;/i&gt;

Leif, your totally missing the point, in another universe in fact. The 1st graph I referred to shows a modulation in the distance of the Sun from the SSB which goes through a sixty year cycle. The amplitude changes when Neptune &amp; Uranus are together every 172 years (2 sep cycles), Scaffetta is not aware of the N/U factor yet but he has shown the result in his graph. I have emailed him and sent some links so hopefully one day he will catch on. Jose&#039;s graph of Sun/SSB distance is almost the same as the AM graph which is also the same as the torque graph, they are all interelated. The AM graph produced by Carl shows extra detail that Jose and Landscheidt could only dream about....that extra detail is the discovery of how N/U control the modulation cycle.

If you understand the theory none of this is hard.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leif Svalgaard (07:39:29) :</p>
<p><i>Geoff Sharp (00:06:29) :<br />
I noticed in Scafetta’s presentation he agrees with me and shows how solar Angular Momentum/Solar distance to SSB is the driver of the modulation of the solar cycle.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br />
He does not agree with you at all. He refers to Jose. There is no mention of your notion of Neptune/Uranus running the show. Scafetta muses about a 60-year cycle, no 172-year cycle. He draws attention [and mars his presentation] to a 60-yr quasi-period in CMSS and possibly in the LOD. No Grand Minimum.</i></p>
<p>Leif, your totally missing the point, in another universe in fact. The 1st graph I referred to shows a modulation in the distance of the Sun from the SSB which goes through a sixty year cycle. The amplitude changes when Neptune &amp; Uranus are together every 172 years (2 sep cycles), Scaffetta is not aware of the N/U factor yet but he has shown the result in his graph. I have emailed him and sent some links so hopefully one day he will catch on. Jose&#8217;s graph of Sun/SSB distance is almost the same as the AM graph which is also the same as the torque graph, they are all interelated. The AM graph produced by Carl shows extra detail that Jose and Landscheidt could only dream about&#8230;.that extra detail is the discovery of how N/U control the modulation cycle.</p>
<p>If you understand the theory none of this is hard.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: vukcevic</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/08/15/livingston-and-penn-in-eos-are-sunspots-different-during-this-solar-minimum/#comment-174912</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vukcevic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:23:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9928#comment-174912</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard (13:05:32) : 
&quot;Many people have searched and their combined findings have something to teach you, if you would only learn [which seems to be your main problem].&quot;

Hathaway: &quot;EARLIER MODELS WERE FATALLY FLAWED.”
http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/presentations/20040428_UTA_Seminar.ppt#14]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leif Svalgaard (13:05:32) :<br />
&#8220;Many people have searched and their combined findings have something to teach you, if you would only learn [which seems to be your main problem].&#8221;</p>
<p>Hathaway: &#8220;EARLIER MODELS WERE FATALLY FLAWED.”<br />
<a href="http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/presentations/20040428_UTA_Seminar.ppt#14" rel="nofollow">http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/presentations/20040428_UTA_Seminar.ppt#14</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/08/15/livingston-and-penn-in-eos-are-sunspots-different-during-this-solar-minimum/#comment-174864</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:05:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9928#comment-174864</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[vukcevic (12:00:10) :
&lt;i&gt;No I do not, but that should not be reason not to continue search.&lt;/i&gt;
A person has only so much energy to spare. Better to spend at least some of it actually learning something, rather than searching. Many people have searched and their combined findings have something to teach you, if you would only learn [which seems to be your main problem].
You can have a mind so open that the brain falls out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>vukcevic (12:00:10) :<br />
<i>No I do not, but that should not be reason not to continue search.</i><br />
A person has only so much energy to spare. Better to spend at least some of it actually learning something, rather than searching. Many people have searched and their combined findings have something to teach you, if you would only learn [which seems to be your main problem].<br />
You can have a mind so open that the brain falls out.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: vukcevic</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/08/15/livingston-and-penn-in-eos-are-sunspots-different-during-this-solar-minimum/#comment-174836</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vukcevic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 19:00:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9928#comment-174836</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard (10:36:39) 
With a limited knowledge (and unlimited entusiasm to probe into unknown) I am looking into any possibility that might oppen the door. Your comments are not ignored, just probed for a possible gaps in the current understanding. Resonant synchronisation, is a phisical reality in many cyclical systems, and has ability to overcome required energy input. Do I have an answer? No I do not, but that should not be reason not to continue search.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leif Svalgaard (10:36:39)<br />
With a limited knowledge (and unlimited entusiasm to probe into unknown) I am looking into any possibility that might oppen the door. Your comments are not ignored, just probed for a possible gaps in the current understanding. Resonant synchronisation, is a phisical reality in many cyclical systems, and has ability to overcome required energy input. Do I have an answer? No I do not, but that should not be reason not to continue search.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: VillagePlank</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/08/15/livingston-and-penn-in-eos-are-sunspots-different-during-this-solar-minimum/#comment-174824</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[VillagePlank]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:40:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9928#comment-174824</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi all,

Is the work (whilst not peer reviewed and validated) not of interest? Here, we take the sunspot cycle, and integrate with a few other parameters such as sea-ice, ENSO, and volanic activity. Add a bit of hysteresis, and hey presto, not a bad fit to Hadley.

Indeed we had major problems with matching some anomalies during the mid part of the last century. It took a while, but fortuntately, another poster found an article that showed the period in question was down to Hadley errors. What&#039;s the chances of finding that?

What&#039;s the chances of using four publicly peer reviewed sets of data and getting a Pearson score of over 90%. I haven&#039;t done the maths yet for the Chi2 analysis, but it&#039;s on it&#039;s way.

You can find it here:http://www.netweather.tv/forum/topic/51548-climate-modeling-using-a-leaky-integrator/page__view__findpost__p__1518279]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi all,</p>
<p>Is the work (whilst not peer reviewed and validated) not of interest? Here, we take the sunspot cycle, and integrate with a few other parameters such as sea-ice, ENSO, and volanic activity. Add a bit of hysteresis, and hey presto, not a bad fit to Hadley.</p>
<p>Indeed we had major problems with matching some anomalies during the mid part of the last century. It took a while, but fortuntately, another poster found an article that showed the period in question was down to Hadley errors. What&#8217;s the chances of finding that?</p>
<p>What&#8217;s the chances of using four publicly peer reviewed sets of data and getting a Pearson score of over 90%. I haven&#8217;t done the maths yet for the Chi2 analysis, but it&#8217;s on it&#8217;s way.</p>
<p>You can find it here:<a href="http://www.netweather.tv/forum/topic/51548-climate-modeling-using-a-leaky-integrator/page__view__findpost__p__1518279" rel="nofollow">http://www.netweather.tv/forum/topic/51548-climate-modeling-using-a-leaky-integrator/page__view__findpost__p__1518279</a></p>
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