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	<title>Comments on: Pielke Sr. &#8211; Hypothesis on daily UAH LT records</title>
	<atom:link href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/17/pielke-sr-hypothesis-on-daily-uah-lt-records/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/17/pielke-sr-hypothesis-on-daily-uah-lt-records/</link>
	<description>The world&#039;s most viewed site on global warming and climate change</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Francis</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/17/pielke-sr-hypothesis-on-daily-uah-lt-records/#comment-164098</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Francis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 18:27:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9401#comment-164098</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Its now 7/25...
Why is the 3,300 ft graph stopped at 07/11?  The words remain:
&quot;The temperature on 07/23/2009 is 0.99 deg F warmer than this day last year.&quot;

This would look impressive, since it would be the first big gap over a last year&#039;s high.

The higher elevation graphs are all  current.  At 14,000 ft, the 7/23 plot is shown, at .73 deg F warmer.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its now 7/25&#8230;<br />
Why is the 3,300 ft graph stopped at 07/11?  The words remain:<br />
&#8220;The temperature on 07/23/2009 is 0.99 deg F warmer than this day last year.&#8221;</p>
<p>This would look impressive, since it would be the first big gap over a last year&#8217;s high.</p>
<p>The higher elevation graphs are all  current.  At 14,000 ft, the 7/23 plot is shown, at .73 deg F warmer.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert A Cook PE</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/17/pielke-sr-hypothesis-on-daily-uah-lt-records/#comment-162289</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert A Cook PE]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:18:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9401#comment-162289</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Can this chart be linked for continuous updates as the AMSRE Sea Ice extents and Artic temperatures are now linked on the home WUWT web page?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can this chart be linked for continuous updates as the AMSRE Sea Ice extents and Artic temperatures are now linked on the home WUWT web page?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/17/pielke-sr-hypothesis-on-daily-uah-lt-records/#comment-162040</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[George]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 02:35:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9401#comment-162040</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hypothesis 1 sounds reasonable, especially if we factor in the Sarychev Volcano eruption and the mixing of that ash and aerosols into the upper atmosphere.  It might be reasonable to assume that ash and aerosol in the upper atmosphere could potentially absorb IR and then radiate that heat?  If the southern hemisphere does not show the anomoly with any correlation, that would further support the volcanic event as other models have shown the length such mixing takes.

Not sure I have ever seen a mapping of upper atmosphere temperature changes related to volcanic output.  Has anyone else seen that?  And if the IR was stopped at the upper atmosphere, the lower atmosphere would cool?  We have seen cooling before at the surface from significant events.  Hmmm?

/Sorry for the usage - I was an econometrics major a long time ago, not a physical sciences major.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hypothesis 1 sounds reasonable, especially if we factor in the Sarychev Volcano eruption and the mixing of that ash and aerosols into the upper atmosphere.  It might be reasonable to assume that ash and aerosol in the upper atmosphere could potentially absorb IR and then radiate that heat?  If the southern hemisphere does not show the anomoly with any correlation, that would further support the volcanic event as other models have shown the length such mixing takes.</p>
<p>Not sure I have ever seen a mapping of upper atmosphere temperature changes related to volcanic output.  Has anyone else seen that?  And if the IR was stopped at the upper atmosphere, the lower atmosphere would cool?  We have seen cooling before at the surface from significant events.  Hmmm?</p>
<p>/Sorry for the usage &#8211; I was an econometrics major a long time ago, not a physical sciences major.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/17/pielke-sr-hypothesis-on-daily-uah-lt-records/#comment-161480</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 21:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9401#comment-161480</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oliver Ramsay (19:47:49) :  Yes, that in fact was the point. (Ooops! I just saw my mistake!  I meant &quot;and WARM the liquid faster&quot;  - I hate it when that happens.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oliver Ramsay (19:47:49) :  Yes, that in fact was the point. (Ooops! I just saw my mistake!  I meant &#8220;and WARM the liquid faster&#8221;  &#8211; I hate it when that happens.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: tallbloke</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/17/pielke-sr-hypothesis-on-daily-uah-lt-records/#comment-161474</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tallbloke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:43:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9401#comment-161474</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;David Smith (15:29:44) :

tallbloke, Leif

The daily data is here
http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/data/amsu_daily_85N85S_ch05.r002.txt

Which is reached by navigation (go to channel 5 600 mb and then go to “data as text”) from here&lt;/i&gt;

Thanks David. Very interesting. So did your climate scientist offer any ideas for the behaviour. Those are biggish swings - 0.4C or so. Cloud behaviour? Not on a global basis surely. Hmmm, Lunar effect?? Surely not. Hmmm. Keep those quatloos handy, I&#039;ll work it out.

Leif, any ideas?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>David Smith (15:29:44) :</p>
<p>tallbloke, Leif</p>
<p>The daily data is here<br />
<a href="http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/data/amsu_daily_85N85S_ch05.r002.txt" rel="nofollow">http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/data/amsu_daily_85N85S_ch05.r002.txt</a></p>
<p>Which is reached by navigation (go to channel 5 600 mb and then go to “data as text”) from here</i></p>
<p>Thanks David. Very interesting. So did your climate scientist offer any ideas for the behaviour. Those are biggish swings &#8211; 0.4C or so. Cloud behaviour? Not on a global basis surely. Hmmm, Lunar effect?? Surely not. Hmmm. Keep those quatloos handy, I&#8217;ll work it out.</p>
<p>Leif, any ideas?</p>
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		<title>By: John Finn</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/17/pielke-sr-hypothesis-on-daily-uah-lt-records/#comment-161465</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Finn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:10:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9401#comment-161465</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt; DR (07:36:15) : 

John Finn

There is more detailed information, the this is the crux of the matter when attempting to use the AMSU-E graph for daily temps: &lt;/i&gt;

Yes I know about the issues to which you refer in your post. However I haven&#039;t mentioned AMSU Ch 5 temperatures - not for a while anyway. I do though expect some increase in satellite tempearures over the coming months. Whether this current spike is part of the expected rise - I don&#039;t know.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> DR (07:36:15) : </p>
<p>John Finn</p>
<p>There is more detailed information, the this is the crux of the matter when attempting to use the AMSU-E graph for daily temps: </i></p>
<p>Yes I know about the issues to which you refer in your post. However I haven&#8217;t mentioned AMSU Ch 5 temperatures &#8211; not for a while anyway. I do though expect some increase in satellite tempearures over the coming months. Whether this current spike is part of the expected rise &#8211; I don&#8217;t know.</p>
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		<title>By: Lawrence Jenkins</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/17/pielke-sr-hypothesis-on-daily-uah-lt-records/#comment-161375</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lawrence Jenkins]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 13:20:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9401#comment-161375</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Checking 14000ft today I see it&#039;s got its second wind and is continueing to rise again  http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/execute.csh?amsutemps+002  Surely something is not right?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Checking 14000ft today I see it&#8217;s got its second wind and is continueing to rise again  <a href="http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/execute.csh?amsutemps+002" rel="nofollow">http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/execute.csh?amsutemps+002</a>  Surely something is not right?</p>
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		<title>By: Oliver Ramsay</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/17/pielke-sr-hypothesis-on-daily-uah-lt-records/#comment-161223</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Oliver Ramsay]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 02:47:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9401#comment-161223</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jim (13:23:47) :

Bill Illis (08:20:02) : The glass of cold water isn’t as simple as it appears. Are you talking humid air or perfectly dry air? Water will condense on the container if it is a simple glass or metal container and cool the liquid faster than dry air. But eventually, both will warm the liquid.

Don&#039;t you think the wall of the container will be warmed by condensation?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim (13:23:47) :</p>
<p>Bill Illis (08:20:02) : The glass of cold water isn’t as simple as it appears. Are you talking humid air or perfectly dry air? Water will condense on the container if it is a simple glass or metal container and cool the liquid faster than dry air. But eventually, both will warm the liquid.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t you think the wall of the container will be warmed by condensation?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ron de Haan</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/17/pielke-sr-hypothesis-on-daily-uah-lt-records/#comment-161203</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ron de Haan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 01:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9401#comment-161203</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Another Peer review is out:
http://climatesci.org/2009/07/17/new-paper-accepted-impacts-of-land-cover-on-temperature-trends-over-the-continental-united-states-assessment-using-the-north-american-regional-reanalysis-by-fall-et-al-2009/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another Peer review is out:<br />
<a href="http://climatesci.org/2009/07/17/new-paper-accepted-impacts-of-land-cover-on-temperature-trends-over-the-continental-united-states-assessment-using-the-north-american-regional-reanalysis-by-fall-et-al-2009/" rel="nofollow">http://climatesci.org/2009/07/17/new-paper-accepted-impacts-of-land-cover-on-temperature-trends-over-the-continental-united-states-assessment-using-the-north-american-regional-reanalysis-by-fall-et-al-2009/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jesse</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/17/pielke-sr-hypothesis-on-daily-uah-lt-records/#comment-161185</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jesse]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 00:09:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9401#comment-161185</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[UAH channel 5 data for yesterday is up. Even higher than the July 15th peak.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>UAH channel 5 data for yesterday is up. Even higher than the July 15th peak.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: David Smith</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/17/pielke-sr-hypothesis-on-daily-uah-lt-records/#comment-161142</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 22:29:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9401#comment-161142</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[tallbloke, Leif

The daily data is here
 http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/data/amsu_daily_85N85S_ch05.r002.txt

Which is reached by navigation  (go to channel 5 600 mb and then go to &quot;data as text&quot;) from here

http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/

First I averaged the data for each day of the year. The result shows how the channel 5 temperature varies, on average, over a year.

I then subtracted those daily averages from the actual 2008  and 2009 temperatures for the dates, creating an anomaly plot for 2008 and 2009. 

It&#039;s a simple spreadsheet operation.  

The oscillatory behavior is found through much of the data and seems to be on a 30 to 50 day cycle, but there are stretches without clear oscillation and stretches where the periods are different from the 30 to 50 day norm.

I&#039;d just like to be able to connect it to something in the atmosphere. I did send a copy of this type of plot to one of the satellite/climate scientists (won&#039;t mention his name without permission) several months ago and he said it is real atmospheric behavior, not a satellite data artifact.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tallbloke, Leif</p>
<p>The daily data is here<br />
 <a href="http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/data/amsu_daily_85N85S_ch05.r002.txt" rel="nofollow">http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/data/amsu_daily_85N85S_ch05.r002.txt</a></p>
<p>Which is reached by navigation  (go to channel 5 600 mb and then go to &#8220;data as text&#8221;) from here</p>
<p><a href="http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/" rel="nofollow">http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/</a></p>
<p>First I averaged the data for each day of the year. The result shows how the channel 5 temperature varies, on average, over a year.</p>
<p>I then subtracted those daily averages from the actual 2008  and 2009 temperatures for the dates, creating an anomaly plot for 2008 and 2009. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a simple spreadsheet operation.  </p>
<p>The oscillatory behavior is found through much of the data and seems to be on a 30 to 50 day cycle, but there are stretches without clear oscillation and stretches where the periods are different from the 30 to 50 day norm.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d just like to be able to connect it to something in the atmosphere. I did send a copy of this type of plot to one of the satellite/climate scientists (won&#8217;t mention his name without permission) several months ago and he said it is real atmospheric behavior, not a satellite data artifact.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ivan</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/17/pielke-sr-hypothesis-on-daily-uah-lt-records/#comment-161123</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ivan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 21:34:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9401#comment-161123</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jim,

I agree completely. RSS and UAH trends match pretty well, both over the whole period 1979-2009, and since 1998. Difference are relatively small and are located primarily in early 1990s, as far as I know.  RSS 1979-2009 trend is 0.15 deg C, UAH 0.13 and since 1998 both have negative trends RSS being somewhat larger. That tells you that probably those two sets are relatively reliable, in any event much more than any of ground-based data sets, plagued by myriad of problems, like UHI, poor siting, inhomogeneities etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim,</p>
<p>I agree completely. RSS and UAH trends match pretty well, both over the whole period 1979-2009, and since 1998. Difference are relatively small and are located primarily in early 1990s, as far as I know.  RSS 1979-2009 trend is 0.15 deg C, UAH 0.13 and since 1998 both have negative trends RSS being somewhat larger. That tells you that probably those two sets are relatively reliable, in any event much more than any of ground-based data sets, plagued by myriad of problems, like UHI, poor siting, inhomogeneities etc.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/17/pielke-sr-hypothesis-on-daily-uah-lt-records/#comment-161091</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 20:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9401#comment-161091</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ivan (07:49:40) :  It would be difficult for RSS or UAH data to be worse than GISS data.  Even with flaws, I&#039;m betting the satellite data is 10 time more accurate.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ivan (07:49:40) :  It would be difficult for RSS or UAH data to be worse than GISS data.  Even with flaws, I&#8217;m betting the satellite data is 10 time more accurate.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/17/pielke-sr-hypothesis-on-daily-uah-lt-records/#comment-161090</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 20:23:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9401#comment-161090</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bill Illis (08:20:02) :  The glass of cold water isn&#039;t as simple as it appears.  Are you talking humid air or perfectly dry air?  Water will condense on the container if it is a simple glass or metal container and cool the liquid faster than dry air.  But eventually, both will warm the liquid.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill Illis (08:20:02) :  The glass of cold water isn&#8217;t as simple as it appears.  Are you talking humid air or perfectly dry air?  Water will condense on the container if it is a simple glass or metal container and cool the liquid faster than dry air.  But eventually, both will warm the liquid.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Phil.</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/17/pielke-sr-hypothesis-on-daily-uah-lt-records/#comment-161077</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Phil.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 19:30:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9401#comment-161077</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;Ivan (10:48:47) :
Phil, you said in your first comment that UAH started to use AQUA satellite since 2002. Now you say it was since 2003.&lt;/em&gt;

Since day 221, 2002, the first complete year being 2003.


&lt;em&gt;OK, here is the plot with UAH and RSS data since 2003

http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/uah/from:2003/to/trend/plot/rss/from:2003/to/trend

It seems that cooling trend in RSS is again bigger than in UAH, and that difference increased compared to 2002. That means “warming bias” in UAH increased as well since switching to AQUA.

Your initial objection was that UAH official data are too cool particularly in May and June because of shift in methodology, and that you consider RSS data to be more plausible because of that. That means you think UAH has an artificial warming bias in the new data, that should be corrected. Does UAH has artificial cooling, as you imply now, or artificial warming since 2002 (or 2003), as you implied in your first comment?&lt;/em&gt;

You&#039;re imagining things it&#039;s not me who&#039;s talking about cooling and warming biases, I just don&#039;t think that their recent anomalies can be relied upon because of the change to AQUA.  I didn&#039;t say there&#039;s a general cooling rather a systematic minimum in May/June.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Ivan (10:48:47) :<br />
Phil, you said in your first comment that UAH started to use AQUA satellite since 2002. Now you say it was since 2003.</em></p>
<p>Since day 221, 2002, the first complete year being 2003.</p>
<p><em>OK, here is the plot with UAH and RSS data since 2003</p>
<p><a href="http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/uah/from:2003/to/trend/plot/rss/from:2003/to/trend" rel="nofollow">http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/uah/from:2003/to/trend/plot/rss/from:2003/to/trend</a></p>
<p>It seems that cooling trend in RSS is again bigger than in UAH, and that difference increased compared to 2002. That means “warming bias” in UAH increased as well since switching to AQUA.</p>
<p>Your initial objection was that UAH official data are too cool particularly in May and June because of shift in methodology, and that you consider RSS data to be more plausible because of that. That means you think UAH has an artificial warming bias in the new data, that should be corrected. Does UAH has artificial cooling, as you imply now, or artificial warming since 2002 (or 2003), as you implied in your first comment?</em></p>
<p>You&#8217;re imagining things it&#8217;s not me who&#8217;s talking about cooling and warming biases, I just don&#8217;t think that their recent anomalies can be relied upon because of the change to AQUA.  I didn&#8217;t say there&#8217;s a general cooling rather a systematic minimum in May/June.</p>
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