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	<title>Comments on: Pielke Sr. on RC &#8211; continued misinformation</title>
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	<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/pielke-sr-on-rc-continued-misinformation/</link>
	<description>The world&#039;s most viewed site on global warming and climate change</description>
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		<title>By: henry</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/pielke-sr-on-rc-continued-misinformation/#comment-156540</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[henry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:52:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9128#comment-156540</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Philip_B (19:48:05) : 

OT, but I was wondering if anybody has compiled a massive study of the effects on the environment by building Water Dams?&quot;

I did hear about one study (no link, unfortunately) that mentioned the deltas of the rivers are receeding because lack of dirt washing down the rivers.  Most of the dirt is being caught behind the dams (reducing their capacities).

The mouth of the Mississippi was one example.  Here, the wetlands are receeding, and very little new dirt coming down river to fill it back in.

Add to that the levee system around some sections (to keep river in banks) also prevents new dirt from washing in.

Cleaner water is making it&#039;s way down-stream...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Philip_B (19:48:05) : </p>
<p>OT, but I was wondering if anybody has compiled a massive study of the effects on the environment by building Water Dams?&#8221;</p>
<p>I did hear about one study (no link, unfortunately) that mentioned the deltas of the rivers are receeding because lack of dirt washing down the rivers.  Most of the dirt is being caught behind the dams (reducing their capacities).</p>
<p>The mouth of the Mississippi was one example.  Here, the wetlands are receeding, and very little new dirt coming down river to fill it back in.</p>
<p>Add to that the levee system around some sections (to keep river in banks) also prevents new dirt from washing in.</p>
<p>Cleaner water is making it&#8217;s way down-stream&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: TonyB</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/pielke-sr-on-rc-continued-misinformation/#comment-156414</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TonyB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 09:10:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9128#comment-156414</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Brian Dodge

If you read my earlier post you will see I specifically made reference to the fact that siltation was NOT a factor. There have been many papers published on it and numerous &#039;digs&#039; one of which I participated in. It is sea level fall that has caused the difference-which is not to say for a moment thatr there has not been any siltation.

Tonyb]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian Dodge</p>
<p>If you read my earlier post you will see I specifically made reference to the fact that siltation was NOT a factor. There have been many papers published on it and numerous &#8216;digs&#8217; one of which I participated in. It is sea level fall that has caused the difference-which is not to say for a moment thatr there has not been any siltation.</p>
<p>Tonyb</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Dodge</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/pielke-sr-on-rc-continued-misinformation/#comment-155667</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian Dodge]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 04:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9128#comment-155667</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[woops - SEA level, not SEAL level. &amp;;&gt;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>woops &#8211; SEA level, not SEAL level. &amp;;&gt;)</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Dodge</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/pielke-sr-on-rc-continued-misinformation/#comment-155666</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian Dodge]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 04:21:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9128#comment-155666</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ Smokey
TonyB attributed the distance from Harlech castle to the current shoreline to sea level fall - 
&quot;This links leads to a 1913 book on Harlech castle-one such building which is now high and dry-nothing to do with stasis or deposition, but that sea levels are lower now than when it was built 1000 years ago. &quot;

I&#039;m suggesting that siltation is why Harlech castle is now &quot;high and dry&quot;, NOT a fall in seal level.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Smokey<br />
TonyB attributed the distance from Harlech castle to the current shoreline to sea level fall &#8211;<br />
&#8220;This links leads to a 1913 book on Harlech castle-one such building which is now high and dry-nothing to do with stasis or deposition, but that sea levels are lower now than when it was built 1000 years ago. &#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m suggesting that siltation is why Harlech castle is now &#8220;high and dry&#8221;, NOT a fall in seal level.</p>
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		<title>By: Smokey</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/pielke-sr-on-rc-continued-misinformation/#comment-155648</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Smokey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 03:14:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9128#comment-155648</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;Brian Dodge&lt;/b&gt;,

What&#039;s your point? That silting changes the sea level?

Sorry, but the erstwhile and esteemed John Daly clearly demonstrated that the sea level hasn&#039;t changed in over a hundred years: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.john-daly.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;click&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Brian Dodge</b>,</p>
<p>What&#8217;s your point? That silting changes the sea level?</p>
<p>Sorry, but the erstwhile and esteemed John Daly clearly demonstrated that the sea level hasn&#8217;t changed in over a hundred years: <a href="http://www.john-daly.com/" rel="nofollow">click</a></p>
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		<title>By: Brian Dodge</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/pielke-sr-on-rc-continued-misinformation/#comment-155644</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian Dodge]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 03:04:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9128#comment-155644</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@  TonyB (13:01:22) : re Harlech castle
&quot;In the medieval period, Harlech castle and town (area 18) were built on a rocky promontory above the sea.  Over the next centuries, the area below the town, over which Bendigeidfran looked out) silted up and was classed as marsh waste. &quot;
&quot;It comprises a major cuspate foreland in which the alignment of a sand beach and dunes at an acute angle to former cliffs has encouraged extensive sedimentation.&quot;
http://www.heneb.co.uk/ardudwycharacter/ardudwy/ardudwy32.html
&quot;Deteriorating environmental conditions and human interference during mid- to late-Flandrian times resulted in the gradual decline of forests in the uplands and the development of open grassland and heathland communities characteristic of Snowdonia today.&quot;
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119542955/abstract?CRETRY=1&amp;SRETRY=0
Maybe what happened at Harlech has more to do with growth in population, conversion of forest to fields, and erosion in the drainage of the Afon Gamlan than with sea level changes. The ancient port of Rome, Ostia Antica, founded about 400 BC, silted in and was abandoned by about 500 AD because of population and land use changes in the Tiber drainage increasing erosion and sediment transport, which eventually buried(and preserved for archaelogists!) much of the city. “Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it”- George Santayana.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@  TonyB (13:01:22) : re Harlech castle<br />
&#8220;In the medieval period, Harlech castle and town (area 18) were built on a rocky promontory above the sea.  Over the next centuries, the area below the town, over which Bendigeidfran looked out) silted up and was classed as marsh waste. &#8221;<br />
&#8220;It comprises a major cuspate foreland in which the alignment of a sand beach and dunes at an acute angle to former cliffs has encouraged extensive sedimentation.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.heneb.co.uk/ardudwycharacter/ardudwy/ardudwy32.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.heneb.co.uk/ardudwycharacter/ardudwy/ardudwy32.html</a><br />
&#8220;Deteriorating environmental conditions and human interference during mid- to late-Flandrian times resulted in the gradual decline of forests in the uplands and the development of open grassland and heathland communities characteristic of Snowdonia today.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119542955/abstract?CRETRY=1&#038;SRETRY=0" rel="nofollow">http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119542955/abstract?CRETRY=1&#038;SRETRY=0</a><br />
Maybe what happened at Harlech has more to do with growth in population, conversion of forest to fields, and erosion in the drainage of the Afon Gamlan than with sea level changes. The ancient port of Rome, Ostia Antica, founded about 400 BC, silted in and was abandoned by about 500 AD because of population and land use changes in the Tiber drainage increasing erosion and sediment transport, which eventually buried(and preserved for archaelogists!) much of the city. “Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it”- George Santayana.</p>
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		<title>By: sukiho</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/pielke-sr-on-rc-continued-misinformation/#comment-155111</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sukiho]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 10:23:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9128#comment-155111</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[does the army uniform mean that global warming is a hoax?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>does the army uniform mean that global warming is a hoax?</p>
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		<title>By: John Silver</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/pielke-sr-on-rc-continued-misinformation/#comment-155106</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Silver]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 10:13:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9128#comment-155106</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mike McMillan (22:41:06) :

...........
&quot;Since Luther bet his life standing on his principles, he’d be less at home on RC than Galileo, who caved.&quot;

But Giordano Bruno didn&#039;t and look what happened to him.
You better watchit, pal!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike McMillan (22:41:06) :</p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..<br />
&#8220;Since Luther bet his life standing on his principles, he’d be less at home on RC than Galileo, who caved.&#8221;</p>
<p>But Giordano Bruno didn&#8217;t and look what happened to him.<br />
You better watchit, pal!</p>
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		<title>By: Lucy Skywalker</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/pielke-sr-on-rc-continued-misinformation/#comment-155084</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lucy Skywalker]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 08:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9128#comment-155084</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The stories of Galileo and Luther just show that human nature is so often just not that simple (which is why it can take so long to unravel the &quot;real&quot; truth about Climate Science). The version I&#039;ve heard is that Galileo &lt;strike&gt;stood up to&lt;/strike&gt; mocked the Pope, and after earlier (moderate) friendship and acceptance, the Pope had had enough. Luther stood by his principles at great personal risk and cost - and helped a lot of people. So he was no better as a scientist than the &quot;consensus&quot; of his time! or at least, he had enough other things to worry about.

A contemporary parallel for me is CSICOP and those Skeptics. I&#039;ve found stuff they and Randi have done that is contemptible (like much of RC) IMO. But I don&#039;t therefore automatically disagree with CSICOP members posting on Climate Skepticism here.

As to Pythagoras, who today is aware that he was an initiate into the Egyptian and Babylonian mysteries, and ran a whole mystery school concerned with sacred number (among many other things) at Crotona?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The stories of Galileo and Luther just show that human nature is so often just not that simple (which is why it can take so long to unravel the &#8220;real&#8221; truth about Climate Science). The version I&#8217;ve heard is that Galileo <strike>stood up to</strike> mocked the Pope, and after earlier (moderate) friendship and acceptance, the Pope had had enough. Luther stood by his principles at great personal risk and cost &#8211; and helped a lot of people. So he was no better as a scientist than the &#8220;consensus&#8221; of his time! or at least, he had enough other things to worry about.</p>
<p>A contemporary parallel for me is CSICOP and those Skeptics. I&#8217;ve found stuff they and Randi have done that is contemptible (like much of RC) IMO. But I don&#8217;t therefore automatically disagree with CSICOP members posting on Climate Skepticism here.</p>
<p>As to Pythagoras, who today is aware that he was an initiate into the Egyptian and Babylonian mysteries, and ran a whole mystery school concerned with sacred number (among many other things) at Crotona?</p>
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		<title>By: sukiho</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/pielke-sr-on-rc-continued-misinformation/#comment-155069</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sukiho]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 07:32:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9128#comment-155069</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[very good, the important thing is the photo, even a simple person like me understands that that proves GW is a hoax and I can now email the evidence to all my friends]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>very good, the important thing is the photo, even a simple person like me understands that that proves GW is a hoax and I can now email the evidence to all my friends</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/pielke-sr-on-rc-continued-misinformation/#comment-155061</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Max]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 07:00:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9128#comment-155061</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mike-- Standing on principle is an admirable characteristic, but somewhat less so when you&#039;re wrong, as Luther was about Copernicus.

My point was, his reliance on &quot;sacred Scripture&quot; and Ptolemaic orthodoxy has a familiar ring to those who&#039;ve encountered AGW true believers.  Of course, Luther lived before the establishment of modern, scientific method.  What&#039;s their excuse?

Neither will I condemn Galileo, for having the good sense to save his own life.  He knew the cat was out of the bag, and that even the Vatican astronomers quietly agreed with him and had to keep their mouths shut too.  Don&#039;t want to lose your funding-- or your head.

It&#039;s amazing isn&#039;t it?  The science may have advanced, but politics is the same old s--t.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike&#8211; Standing on principle is an admirable characteristic, but somewhat less so when you&#8217;re wrong, as Luther was about Copernicus.</p>
<p>My point was, his reliance on &#8220;sacred Scripture&#8221; and Ptolemaic orthodoxy has a familiar ring to those who&#8217;ve encountered AGW true believers.  Of course, Luther lived before the establishment of modern, scientific method.  What&#8217;s their excuse?</p>
<p>Neither will I condemn Galileo, for having the good sense to save his own life.  He knew the cat was out of the bag, and that even the Vatican astronomers quietly agreed with him and had to keep their mouths shut too.  Don&#8217;t want to lose your funding&#8211; or your head.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s amazing isn&#8217;t it?  The science may have advanced, but politics is the same old s&#8211;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike McMillan</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/pielke-sr-on-rc-continued-misinformation/#comment-155025</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike McMillan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 05:41:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9128#comment-155025</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Max (12:26:09) :&lt;i&gt;
I’m afraid you’ve put Luther in the wrong camp. He would have been right at home on RC.&lt;/i&gt;

Since Luther bet his life standing on his principles, he&#039;d be less at home on RC than Galileo, who caved.

.
 Don S. (19:53:14) :&lt;i&gt;
Douglas DC: Your references to Luther and Galileo lead inexorably to Phythagoras and the Ionians.&lt;/i&gt;

Who&#039;s Phythagoras?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Max (12:26:09) :<i><br />
I’m afraid you’ve put Luther in the wrong camp. He would have been right at home on RC.</i></p>
<p>Since Luther bet his life standing on his principles, he&#8217;d be less at home on RC than Galileo, who caved.</p>
<p>.<br />
 Don S. (19:53:14) :<i><br />
Douglas DC: Your references to Luther and Galileo lead inexorably to Phythagoras and the Ionians.</i></p>
<p>Who&#8217;s Phythagoras?</p>
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		<title>By: Mike McMillan</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/pielke-sr-on-rc-continued-misinformation/#comment-155011</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike McMillan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 04:18:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9128#comment-155011</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[juan (14:57:21) :&lt;i&gt;
So whatever happened to Baghdad Bob?&lt;/i&gt;

Had a facelift and changed his name to Robert Gibbs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>juan (14:57:21) :<i><br />
So whatever happened to Baghdad Bob?</i></p>
<p>Had a facelift and changed his name to Robert Gibbs.</p>
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		<title>By: Don S.</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/pielke-sr-on-rc-continued-misinformation/#comment-154994</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Don S.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 02:53:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9128#comment-154994</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Douglas DC: Your ref to Luther and Galileo
Your brevitas has perhaps been too much of a challenge to posters who have questioned you.  I find the post relevant to the current situation and indeed enlightening.  This blog grows apace as a civilization, wherein philosophy and science are mutually informative.  Science must needs provide the immutable answers to the current debate about the climate, but philosophy must provide the explanation to the masses.  Your references to Luther and Galileo lead inexorably to Phythagoras and the Ionians.  Nothing is new under the sun.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Douglas DC: Your ref to Luther and Galileo<br />
Your brevitas has perhaps been too much of a challenge to posters who have questioned you.  I find the post relevant to the current situation and indeed enlightening.  This blog grows apace as a civilization, wherein philosophy and science are mutually informative.  Science must needs provide the immutable answers to the current debate about the climate, but philosophy must provide the explanation to the masses.  Your references to Luther and Galileo lead inexorably to Phythagoras and the Ionians.  Nothing is new under the sun.</p>
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		<title>By: Philip_B</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/pielke-sr-on-rc-continued-misinformation/#comment-154992</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Philip_B]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 02:48:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9128#comment-154992</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;OT, but I was wondering if anybody has compiled a massive study of the effects on the environment by building Water Dams? &lt;/i&gt;

I doubt dams per se have much effect on the environment and climate. However, most dam water is used for irrigation. And irrigation is easily the largest scale environmental change of the last 50 to 100 years. In excess of 600 million acres are irrigated. 

In many and perhaps most places, the majority of irrigated water is lost thru evaporation. Which means it becomes the most potent greenhouse gas. 

I&#039;m not aware of anyone having quantified the greenhouse effect from irrigation, but where I live in Western Australia, the days when we have clear skies and near ground humidity are easily our hottest days (and nights). Even a small increase in humidity affects temperatures.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>OT, but I was wondering if anybody has compiled a massive study of the effects on the environment by building Water Dams? </i></p>
<p>I doubt dams per se have much effect on the environment and climate. However, most dam water is used for irrigation. And irrigation is easily the largest scale environmental change of the last 50 to 100 years. In excess of 600 million acres are irrigated. </p>
<p>In many and perhaps most places, the majority of irrigated water is lost thru evaporation. Which means it becomes the most potent greenhouse gas. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not aware of anyone having quantified the greenhouse effect from irrigation, but where I live in Western Australia, the days when we have clear skies and near ground humidity are easily our hottest days (and nights). Even a small increase in humidity affects temperatures.</p>
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