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	<title>Comments on: More on RC Misinformation from Pielke Sr.</title>
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	<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/more-on-rc-misinformation-from-pielke-sr/</link>
	<description>The world&#039;s most viewed site on global warming and climate change</description>
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		<title>By: Richard Heg</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/more-on-rc-misinformation-from-pielke-sr/#comment-156385</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Heg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 06:49:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9152#comment-156385</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If the ice all melts nothing to worry about anyway,
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17436-warming-arctic-could-teem-with-life-by-2030.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the ice all melts nothing to worry about anyway,<br />
<a href="http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17436-warming-arctic-could-teem-with-life-by-2030.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17436-warming-arctic-could-teem-with-life-by-2030.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Pragmatic</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/more-on-rc-misinformation-from-pielke-sr/#comment-155811</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pragmatic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 13:13:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9152#comment-155811</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ron de Haan (13:05:45) : 

“The truth about RealClimate.org”

From what little of this blog I have read, I tend to agree.  But it goes deeper still I suspect.  We here, engage in a similar approach.  It is more like a propaganda war.  Set in cyber space.  Ian Plimer&#039;s book appears to set the stage well:

&lt;i&gt;Climate has always been driven by the Sun, the Earth’s orbit and plate tectonics and the oceans, atmosphere and life respond. Humans have made their mark on the planet, thrived in warm times and struggled in cool times. The hypothesis that humans can actually change climate is unsupported by evidence from geology, archaeology, history and astronomy. The hypothesis is rejected. A new ignorance fills the yawning spiritual gap in Western society. Climate change politics is religious fundamentalism masquerading as science. Its triumph is computer models unrelated to observations in nature. There has been no critical due diligence of the science of climate change, dogma dominates, skeptics are pilloried and 17th Century thinking promotes prophets of doom, guilt and penance.&lt;/i&gt; 

It is disappointing to think that this is what humanity has to look forward to.  A future populated by the most ancient and narrowed consciousness.  As if to say, &quot;Look forward, children.  The Dark Ages lie ahead, still.&quot;  It makes one wonder; where is the wisdom?  Where is the light?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron de Haan (13:05:45) : </p>
<p>“The truth about RealClimate.org”</p>
<p>From what little of this blog I have read, I tend to agree.  But it goes deeper still I suspect.  We here, engage in a similar approach.  It is more like a propaganda war.  Set in cyber space.  Ian Plimer&#8217;s book appears to set the stage well:</p>
<p><i>Climate has always been driven by the Sun, the Earth’s orbit and plate tectonics and the oceans, atmosphere and life respond. Humans have made their mark on the planet, thrived in warm times and struggled in cool times. The hypothesis that humans can actually change climate is unsupported by evidence from geology, archaeology, history and astronomy. The hypothesis is rejected. A new ignorance fills the yawning spiritual gap in Western society. Climate change politics is religious fundamentalism masquerading as science. Its triumph is computer models unrelated to observations in nature. There has been no critical due diligence of the science of climate change, dogma dominates, skeptics are pilloried and 17th Century thinking promotes prophets of doom, guilt and penance.</i> </p>
<p>It is disappointing to think that this is what humanity has to look forward to.  A future populated by the most ancient and narrowed consciousness.  As if to say, &#8220;Look forward, children.  The Dark Ages lie ahead, still.&#8221;  It makes one wonder; where is the wisdom?  Where is the light?</p>
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		<title>By: Just The Facts</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/more-on-rc-misinformation-from-pielke-sr/#comment-155624</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Just The Facts]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 02:06:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9152#comment-155624</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sonicfrog (10:29:16) : 
&quot;OK. Now THAT”S what I call perfect timing!!!!!! (see the new WUWT post “Gore / Nazi”)&quot;

I concur that the timing is quite interesting, but it&#039;s The Times that titled their article, &quot;Al Gore likens fight against climate change to battle with Nazis&quot; and Gore who apparently invoked some reference to Nazis, such that Times led their article with it. Add to this the Warmingists use of the obviously loaded term &quot;denier&quot; to describe anyone who is skeptical of their flimsy global warming narrative and it raises the question, what&#039;s going on within the Warmingist&#039;s meme such that Nazi references have become a commonly used communication tool/persuasive device?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sonicfrog (10:29:16) :<br />
&#8220;OK. Now THAT”S what I call perfect timing!!!!!! (see the new WUWT post “Gore / Nazi”)&#8221;</p>
<p>I concur that the timing is quite interesting, but it&#8217;s The Times that titled their article, &#8220;Al Gore likens fight against climate change to battle with Nazis&#8221; and Gore who apparently invoked some reference to Nazis, such that Times led their article with it. Add to this the Warmingists use of the obviously loaded term &#8220;denier&#8221; to describe anyone who is skeptical of their flimsy global warming narrative and it raises the question, what&#8217;s going on within the Warmingist&#8217;s meme such that Nazi references have become a commonly used communication tool/persuasive device?</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/more-on-rc-misinformation-from-pielke-sr/#comment-155560</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 22:40:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9152#comment-155560</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[evanmjones (14:42:55) :
I do see  your point. 

The polar ice is absorbing so little heat even at full extent, I doubt it is significant compared to heat absorbed elsewhere on our quickly withering planet.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>evanmjones (14:42:55) :<br />
I do see  your point. </p>
<p>The polar ice is absorbing so little heat even at full extent, I doubt it is significant compared to heat absorbed elsewhere on our quickly withering planet.</p>
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		<title>By: evanmjones</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/more-on-rc-misinformation-from-pielke-sr/#comment-155524</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[evanmjones]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 21:42:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9152#comment-155524</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No, I am not a climate scientist.

&lt;i&gt;Seems like a lot more sunlight would bounce off polar ice no matter what condition the ice is in.&lt;/i&gt;

Reduction of area would nonetheless reduce albedo. It&#039;s part of the dreaded positive feedback equation. (And, no, I&#039;m not worried about it.)

My point was merely that area &quot;matters&quot; more than volume.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I am not a climate scientist.</p>
<p><i>Seems like a lot more sunlight would bounce off polar ice no matter what condition the ice is in.</i></p>
<p>Reduction of area would nonetheless reduce albedo. It&#8217;s part of the dreaded positive feedback equation. (And, no, I&#8217;m not worried about it.)</p>
<p>My point was merely that area &#8220;matters&#8221; more than volume.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron de Haan</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/more-on-rc-misinformation-from-pielke-sr/#comment-155452</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ron de Haan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 20:05:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9152#comment-155452</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[http://heliogenic.blogspot.com/2009/07/populartechnologynet-on-realclimateorg.html


July 7, 2009
PopularTechnology.net on RealClimate.org
&quot;Essentially the site [RealClimate.org] exists to promote global warming alarm-ism and attack anyone who does not agree with their declaration of doomsday (proven of course by their own computer climate models) and the need for government intervention against the life supporting, atmospheric trace gas, carbon dioxide. Standard operating procedure is to post &quot;rebuttals&quot; to everything they disagree with and then declare victory, making sure to censor comments challenging their position. It doesn&#039;t matter if they actual rebutted any of the science or facts just so long as they provide the existence of a criticism. This gives their fanboys &quot;ammunition&quot; to further promote alarmist propaganda across the Internet (and of course declare victory). Their resident propagandist William Connolley&#039;s job is to edit dissent and smear skeptical scientists on Wikipedia.&quot; &quot;The truth about RealClimate.org&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://heliogenic.blogspot.com/2009/07/populartechnologynet-on-realclimateorg.html" rel="nofollow">http://heliogenic.blogspot.com/2009/07/populartechnologynet-on-realclimateorg.html</a></p>
<p>July 7, 2009<br />
PopularTechnology.net on RealClimate.org<br />
&#8220;Essentially the site [RealClimate.org] exists to promote global warming alarm-ism and attack anyone who does not agree with their declaration of doomsday (proven of course by their own computer climate models) and the need for government intervention against the life supporting, atmospheric trace gas, carbon dioxide. Standard operating procedure is to post &#8220;rebuttals&#8221; to everything they disagree with and then declare victory, making sure to censor comments challenging their position. It doesn&#8217;t matter if they actual rebutted any of the science or facts just so long as they provide the existence of a criticism. This gives their fanboys &#8220;ammunition&#8221; to further promote alarmist propaganda across the Internet (and of course declare victory). Their resident propagandist William Connolley&#8217;s job is to edit dissent and smear skeptical scientists on Wikipedia.&#8221; &#8220;The truth about RealClimate.org&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/more-on-rc-misinformation-from-pielke-sr/#comment-155392</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 19:06:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9152#comment-155392</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oops!  watts/meter^2 not ^3]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops!  watts/meter^2 not ^3</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/more-on-rc-misinformation-from-pielke-sr/#comment-155389</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 19:05:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9152#comment-155389</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[evanmjones (07:37:13) : Also, the watts/meter3 is a lot less, so it makes less difference anyway.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>evanmjones (07:37:13) : Also, the watts/meter3 is a lot less, so it makes less difference anyway.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/more-on-rc-misinformation-from-pielke-sr/#comment-155387</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 19:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9152#comment-155387</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[evanmjones (07:37:13) : When you (or climate scientists, if you aren&#039;t one) consider the albedo of polar ice, do you mean the measured albedo of ice in the lab or do you take into account the shallow grazing angle of sunlight on polar ice?  Seems like a lot more sunlight would bounce off polar ice no matter what condition the ice is in.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>evanmjones (07:37:13) : When you (or climate scientists, if you aren&#8217;t one) consider the albedo of polar ice, do you mean the measured albedo of ice in the lab or do you take into account the shallow grazing angle of sunlight on polar ice?  Seems like a lot more sunlight would bounce off polar ice no matter what condition the ice is in.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/more-on-rc-misinformation-from-pielke-sr/#comment-155324</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 17:45:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9152#comment-155324</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Anthony alluded to a good point when asked recently why he even bothers responding to RC? He answered because they get a lot of press. There is another important reason for doing it. WUWT has a very substantial readership which continues to grow and those readers talk to their friends around the water cooler and it is sites like these that provide ballanced rebuttals, in many cases in laymen terms, for them to inject in to their discussions.

Another point that has been discussed here is the decline in readership at RC. I&#039;m speculating but I think there are RC readers of this site who are not as comfortable as they were when first reading articles at RC after seeing the counter arguments here. 

It is also worth considering that as WUWT becomes more and more successful and far reaching that RC can no longer ignore the impact it is having which may reach a critical point with the release of the surfacestation.org paper. That is going to be a very interesting time and could be a real paradigm shifter. Thanks again to all who made it possible.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anthony alluded to a good point when asked recently why he even bothers responding to RC? He answered because they get a lot of press. There is another important reason for doing it. WUWT has a very substantial readership which continues to grow and those readers talk to their friends around the water cooler and it is sites like these that provide ballanced rebuttals, in many cases in laymen terms, for them to inject in to their discussions.</p>
<p>Another point that has been discussed here is the decline in readership at RC. I&#8217;m speculating but I think there are RC readers of this site who are not as comfortable as they were when first reading articles at RC after seeing the counter arguments here. </p>
<p>It is also worth considering that as WUWT becomes more and more successful and far reaching that RC can no longer ignore the impact it is having which may reach a critical point with the release of the surfacestation.org paper. That is going to be a very interesting time and could be a real paradigm shifter. Thanks again to all who made it possible.</p>
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		<title>By: Sonicfrog</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/more-on-rc-misinformation-from-pielke-sr/#comment-155308</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sonicfrog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 17:29:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9152#comment-155308</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;A blog post in The Guardian stroking Gavin:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2009/jul/06/gavin-schmidt-climate-change

Particularly amusing within:
“And here’s Schimdt on the “noise” created by the climate change debate, a subject he’s touched on before on the Guardian:
“In unmoderated forums about climate change, it just devolves immediately into, “you’re a Nazi, no you’re a fascist,” blah, blah, blah. Any semblance of an idea that you could actually talk about what aerosols do to the hydrological cycle without it devolving into name calling seems to be fantasy. It is very tiresome.”&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

OK. Now THAT&quot;S what I call perfect timing!!!!!! (see the new WUWT post &quot;Gore / Nazi&quot;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>A blog post in The Guardian stroking Gavin:<br />
<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2009/jul/06/gavin-schmidt-climate-change" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2009/jul/06/gavin-schmidt-climate-change</a></p>
<p>Particularly amusing within:<br />
“And here’s Schimdt on the “noise” created by the climate change debate, a subject he’s touched on before on the Guardian:<br />
“In unmoderated forums about climate change, it just devolves immediately into, “you’re a Nazi, no you’re a fascist,” blah, blah, blah. Any semblance of an idea that you could actually talk about what aerosols do to the hydrological cycle without it devolving into name calling seems to be fantasy. It is very tiresome.”&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>OK. Now THAT&#8221;S what I call perfect timing!!!!!! (see the new WUWT post &#8220;Gore / Nazi&#8221;)</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/more-on-rc-misinformation-from-pielke-sr/#comment-155304</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 17:26:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9152#comment-155304</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[evanmjones (08:01:30) :

&#039;But remember, it’s one of the top ten warmest Falls we’ve ever had during Summer.&#039;

Too funny!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>evanmjones (08:01:30) :</p>
<p>&#8216;But remember, it’s one of the top ten warmest Falls we’ve ever had during Summer.&#8217;</p>
<p>Too funny!</p>
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		<title>By: J. Bob</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/more-on-rc-misinformation-from-pielke-sr/#comment-155198</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[J. Bob]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 15:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9152#comment-155198</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One of the more interesting facts that seems to get lost RC is the total of polar sea ice (Arctic &amp; Antarctic) seems relatively constant. Arctic extent goes down, Antarctic go up. When discussed at RC about why the Antarctic (with much greater volume) is close to record highs, the answer, at RC,  is the continental ice sheet is getting smaller, hence the oceans are rising. So if the surrounding ocean is generating ice, (it takes a lot of “cold” to make ice), why would the continent, in the center,  be losing ice? 

Must be all those scientists  breathing down there.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the more interesting facts that seems to get lost RC is the total of polar sea ice (Arctic &amp; Antarctic) seems relatively constant. Arctic extent goes down, Antarctic go up. When discussed at RC about why the Antarctic (with much greater volume) is close to record highs, the answer, at RC,  is the continental ice sheet is getting smaller, hence the oceans are rising. So if the surrounding ocean is generating ice, (it takes a lot of “cold” to make ice), why would the continent, in the center,  be losing ice? </p>
<p>Must be all those scientists  breathing down there.</p>
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		<title>By: evanmjones</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/more-on-rc-misinformation-from-pielke-sr/#comment-155197</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[evanmjones]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 15:01:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9152#comment-155197</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Pamela-what happened to Summer? in NE Oregon? got up to fall like winds and cool temps.&lt;/i&gt;

But remember, it&#039;s one of the top ten warmest Falls we&#039;ve ever had during Summer.

I have my &quot;computer metric&quot;. During summer, the AC power drain on the building I live in causes all sorts of problems booting my machine. This Summer I&#039;ve had fewer problems in this regard than in recent years.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Pamela-what happened to Summer? in NE Oregon? got up to fall like winds and cool temps.</i></p>
<p>But remember, it&#8217;s one of the top ten warmest Falls we&#8217;ve ever had during Summer.</p>
<p>I have my &#8220;computer metric&#8221;. During summer, the AC power drain on the building I live in causes all sorts of problems booting my machine. This Summer I&#8217;ve had fewer problems in this regard than in recent years.</p>
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		<title>By: evanmjones</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/06/more-on-rc-misinformation-from-pielke-sr/#comment-155193</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[evanmjones]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 14:53:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=9152#comment-155193</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Roger Pielke seems to be far more interested in uncovering the truth than supporting any particular agenda.&lt;/i&gt;

Yes, he questions that which supports his basic positions as carefully as that which disputes them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Roger Pielke seems to be far more interested in uncovering the truth than supporting any particular agenda.</i></p>
<p>Yes, he questions that which supports his basic positions as carefully as that which disputes them.</p>
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