The temp sensor is supposed to be 1metre above snow? But the turbine and “box” in the picture show no such instrument.

Is the sensor on the camera location? If so then the camera has visually been in a snow drift for the last few weeks. Would the sensor therefor be covered also?

Realistically, we cannot influence nor change the temperatures up there, but can only watch, record, and wonder. (Of course, it is more fun to predict and argue about what the Arctic temperatures and sea ice measures will do than just to watch …)

—

The Arctic is critical to AGW-CO2 theory because it is so cold, so dry up there that the greenhouse gas effect oF CO2 dominates that of water vapor: so the AGW-greenhouse gas theory REQUIRES that Arctic temperatures increase faster and more visibly with increases in CO2 ion the Arctic.

“Perhaps the lack of ice there is because the SST is high there?”
http://sharaku.eorc.jaxa.jp/cgi-bin/amsr/polar_sst/polar_sst.cgi?lang=e

If there had been large amounts of ice being melted by the seawater in that area, wouldn’t that cause the SST to fall due to the influx of cold melt-water as well as energy for the phase change being drawn from the sea surface water?

Perhaps you got the cause and effect switched, and instead the high SST there is because of relatively less ice being pushed out through the Fram strait.

Also see:
SunSword (06:40:07) :

“Regarding the “flatness” of the recent “current temperature derivation” — I merely emailed the contact name for the DMI Center for Ocean and Ice and asked if it was due to a sensor error. I received a prompt reply which I quote:

“Yes – it can seem a little artificial that the mean temperature North of the 80 N parallel follows the melt-line of water, for the past week or more.
However, I do believe the data are all right and just reflect a relative stable period i the Arctic.
When the lower atmosphere is stable, the air temperature will approach the temperature of the surface, which in this case is the ice surface at about melting point. I believe the temperature will approach the climate curve when the lower atmosphere will be less stable and the air will be mixed by stronger winds.

Further, the temperatures that are plotted in the graph are retrieved from an ‘analysis’ model field. That is (a brief version :-)): all available observations are put into a mathematical formulation, that finds the best possible temperature field that fits the observations with the least error. Therefore, it is very unlikely to be a sensor error.”

This response came from a scientist with the “Sektion for Polar Oceanografi”. As this was a response to a personal email I will withhold his name.”

At least DMI seem to think that the unusually low June temperatures above 80N is due to stable lower atmosphere, i.e. less wind pushing the ice out of the Arctic down the Fram strait.

Regards

But you asserted that “the ice flow from the area north of 80 degrees down via South East Greenland is smaller than 2007″, which is what I questioned.

But you are sure that 2009 have similar wind phenomenon pushing ice away from the arcic as in 2007? Howcome we havent heard of this?

I don’t know why, I’ve pointed out the strong flow through the Fram several times during the winter/spring.

At the ARCUS site you can find the following:

“Although fall 2008 had almost 0.5 million square kilometers more multiyear sea ice extent than fall 2007, on 1 May 2009, the perennial ice extent had been reduced to 2.1 million square kilometers, which is virtually equivalent to the 2.2 million square kilometers of perennial ice extent on 1 May 2008. The sea ice on the Eurasian side of the North Pole is primarily second-year sea ice remaining from summer 2008; indications are that part of this sea ice exited Fram Strait under the influence of a more positive Arctic Oscillation climate pattern in winter and spring 2009.”

Bremen Arctic ice for July 3 2008
http://www.iup.uni-bremen.de:8084/amsredata/asi_daygrid_swath/l1a/n6250/2008/jun/

Bremen today
http://www.iup.uni-bremen.de:8084/amsr/arctic_AMSRE_nic.png

Bremen 2008 index of Arctic ice here
http://www.iup.uni-bremen.de:8084/amsredata/asi_daygrid_swath/l1a/n6250/2008/jul/

http://www.climate.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/climateData/dailydata_e.html

Using my knowledge of Arctic history and observing the cool PDO and the low level of activity of the Sun I am predicting another increase in the minimum level of ice this year. Basically my use of common sense against the consensus of science. I haven’t yet figured out what the consensus of scientists use to make their predictions of less and less ice. I don’t think they use science.

http://www.klimadebat.dk/forum/vedhaeftninger/arktisjuni25.gif

29 june 2009:
http://www.klimadebat.dk/forum/vedhaeftninger/arktis29juni.gif

2 july 2009:
http://www.klimadebat.dk/forum/vedhaeftninger/arktis2juli.gif

So if everyone believes these data are some error, its very unlikely that so many stations shouls have error at the same time.
No, face it, it has indeed been record cold up there this year. Amazing.

And i agree fully with “Bill” : This is an error and the missing high temperatures are due to frozen themometers :-)

First we have the biggest survey made this year showing that ice is thicker than expected (Wegner) then we have cold temperatures.
Nature knows how to make a thriller.

Heres some drift graphics, and its true, hard to see the big difference between 2007 and 2009 from this:
ftp://ftp.ifremer.fr/ifremer/cersat/products/gridded/psi-drift/quicklooks/arctic/amsre-merged/6-daily/

But you are sure that 2009 have similar wind phenomenon pushing ice away from the arcic as in 2007? Howcome we havent heard of this?

Great post – agree with all of it, especially the suggestion that the warmists are shooting themselves in both feet with their intolerance and chippy attitude.

This might be obvious, but it confirms the problem:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/02/people_like_congenial_news/

I especially liked this comment from the Professor: “those with little confidence in their own beliefs who are least willing to consider opposing views”

What data do you have to support that assertion?
The Russian base NP-36 is drifting in that direction at average velocity of ~8 km/day over the last week, occasionally up to 12 km/day.
Perhaps the lack of ice there is because the SST is high there?
http://sharaku.eorc.jaxa.jp/cgi-bin/amsr/polar_sst/polar_sst.cgi?lang=e

I’m not sure what you mean by ‘ahead’, on the CT SH graph the area is about 500,000 sq km less than in 2008 (11.937 Mm^2)

2009 is 55K less area than 2007, 3 pixels, but 2007 was strange as ice was increasing at this time of year, from a minimum in Dec. 2006. NASA says 2007 had unusual currents and winds causing the mass migration of ice out of the arctic.
This appears to be related to the NH not SH but I don’t see the relevance.