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	<title>Comments on: Interesting times at the &#8220;North Pole&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/06/20/interesting-times-at-the-north-pole/</link>
	<description>Commentary on puzzling things in life, nature, science, weather, climate change, technology, and recent news by Anthony Watts</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:48:30 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: AndyW35</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/06/20/interesting-times-at-the-north-pole/#comment-147645</link>
		<dc:creator>AndyW35</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 05:37:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=8717#comment-147645</guid>
		<description>Phil, I see what you mean, yes that would be a good explanation.

Regards

Andy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil, I see what you mean, yes that would be a good explanation.</p>
<p>Regards</p>
<p>Andy</p>
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		<title>By: the_Butcher</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/06/20/interesting-times-at-the-north-pole/#comment-147642</link>
		<dc:creator>the_Butcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 05:14:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=8717#comment-147642</guid>
		<description>Where Iive in Southern Europe the weather is cloudy and rainy which has never happened before around this month from what I remember since a little boy. It feels like it&#039;s late September already...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where Iive in Southern Europe the weather is cloudy and rainy which has never happened before around this month from what I remember since a little boy. It feels like it&#8217;s late September already&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Phil.</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/06/20/interesting-times-at-the-north-pole/#comment-147532</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 22:34:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=8717#comment-147532</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;AndyW35 (22:57:46) :
Phil, if you look at the northpole images from 21st June you can see a shadow across the ice, so indicating it is a large scale feature and not something on the lens. Perhaps this pressure ridge is what caused to it go FUBAR for a while.&lt;/em&gt;

It&#039;s not on the lens but is attached to the camera support, judging by the size of the ice crystals it&#039;s within a foot of the lens.  The shadow is from the camera support I expect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>AndyW35 (22:57:46) :<br />
Phil, if you look at the northpole images from 21st June you can see a shadow across the ice, so indicating it is a large scale feature and not something on the lens. Perhaps this pressure ridge is what caused to it go FUBAR for a while.</em></p>
<p>It&#8217;s not on the lens but is attached to the camera support, judging by the size of the ice crystals it&#8217;s within a foot of the lens.  The shadow is from the camera support I expect.</p>
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		<title>By: Symon</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/06/20/interesting-times-at-the-north-pole/#comment-147396</link>
		<dc:creator>Symon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:01:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=8717#comment-147396</guid>
		<description>http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/npole/2009/images/tmp/noaa1-2009-0622-055606.jpg.tmp

Looks like the webcam is still working. 

BTW, you can see all the pictures from http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/npole/

HTH., Symon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/npole/2009/images/tmp/noaa1-2009-0622-055606.jpg.tmp" rel="nofollow">http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/npole/2009/images/tmp/noaa1-2009-0622-055606.jpg.tmp</a></p>
<p>Looks like the webcam is still working. </p>
<p>BTW, you can see all the pictures from <a href="http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/npole/" rel="nofollow">http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/npole/</a></p>
<p>HTH., Symon.</p>
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		<title>By: bill</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/06/20/interesting-times-at-the-north-pole/#comment-147330</link>
		<dc:creator>bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=8717#comment-147330</guid>
		<description>Anthony as you keep suggesting that Catlin were going to polute the Arctic with their fuel cache, I am sure you will be relieved to read this from their web site:

From the Ice
Logistically, all the loose ends of the expedition have now been tied up. 

On the 5th June, Kenn Borek Air scooped up the remaining fuel drums from our fuel cache on the Arctic Ocean, before returning to the base at Resolute. 

Today all the freight arrived back at the Ops Room here in London. The laborious task of putting it into some sort of order begins. Some of the kit (sledges, clothing, drills etc) will be used for display purposes, some will be binned and some will be stored for any future projects

&lt;strong&gt;REPLY:&lt;/strong&gt; Good for them and thanks for the note - Anthony</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anthony as you keep suggesting that Catlin were going to polute the Arctic with their fuel cache, I am sure you will be relieved to read this from their web site:</p>
<p>From the Ice<br />
Logistically, all the loose ends of the expedition have now been tied up. </p>
<p>On the 5th June, Kenn Borek Air scooped up the remaining fuel drums from our fuel cache on the Arctic Ocean, before returning to the base at Resolute. </p>
<p>Today all the freight arrived back at the Ops Room here in London. The laborious task of putting it into some sort of order begins. Some of the kit (sledges, clothing, drills etc) will be used for display purposes, some will be binned and some will be stored for any future projects</p>
<p><strong>REPLY:</strong> Good for them and thanks for the note &#8211; Anthony</p>
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		<title>By: AndyW35</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/06/20/interesting-times-at-the-north-pole/#comment-147208</link>
		<dc:creator>AndyW35</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 05:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=8717#comment-147208</guid>
		<description>Phil,  if you look at the northpole images from 21st June you can see a shadow across the ice, so indicating it is a large scale feature and not something on the lens. Perhaps this pressure ridge is what caused to it go FUBAR for a while.

Regards

Andy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil,  if you look at the northpole images from 21st June you can see a shadow across the ice, so indicating it is a large scale feature and not something on the lens. Perhaps this pressure ridge is what caused to it go FUBAR for a while.</p>
<p>Regards</p>
<p>Andy</p>
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		<title>By: David Ball</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/06/20/interesting-times-at-the-north-pole/#comment-147195</link>
		<dc:creator>David Ball</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 05:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=8717#comment-147195</guid>
		<description>Flanagan, after 30 years of watching my fathers position get brutally marginalized through media manipulation ( watch the CBC&#039;s Fifth Estate about &quot;the deniers&quot; as one example) and you might understand that the chip on my shoulder is as big as it is. My father and I are very different. He is educated in the extreme, patient and thoughtful. I, on the other hand, wasted my youth  drinking and fighting in some of the toughest bars in Canada. I am quick to temper and can still hold my own in a confrontation, and quite enjoy doing so.  I am not educated, but I still comprehend a great deal of the discussions on this site and others, and I know BS when it rears it&#039;s ugly head. Don&#039;t get me wrong, I am glad that Anthony allows differing views to be posted, for that is the &quot;joie de vivre&quot; of this site.  It is time that the realists had a voice in every form of media. If you believe strongly that your view is the correct one, then our view should not be a threat. Skeptics are not allowed to post on RC, and sites like it. Very telling. We are entitled to equal time. When someone is shouted down, it does not mean they are wrong. I enjoyed reading your back and forth with Pamela Gray, very enlightening and constructive. That sort of discourse will bring Anthony another &quot;science blog of the year&quot; award. Try to put yourself in my shoes and maybe you can understand my reaction a little better. Nothing personal and no hard feelings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Flanagan, after 30 years of watching my fathers position get brutally marginalized through media manipulation ( watch the CBC&#8217;s Fifth Estate about &#8220;the deniers&#8221; as one example) and you might understand that the chip on my shoulder is as big as it is. My father and I are very different. He is educated in the extreme, patient and thoughtful. I, on the other hand, wasted my youth  drinking and fighting in some of the toughest bars in Canada. I am quick to temper and can still hold my own in a confrontation, and quite enjoy doing so.  I am not educated, but I still comprehend a great deal of the discussions on this site and others, and I know BS when it rears it&#8217;s ugly head. Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I am glad that Anthony allows differing views to be posted, for that is the &#8220;joie de vivre&#8221; of this site.  It is time that the realists had a voice in every form of media. If you believe strongly that your view is the correct one, then our view should not be a threat. Skeptics are not allowed to post on RC, and sites like it. Very telling. We are entitled to equal time. When someone is shouted down, it does not mean they are wrong. I enjoyed reading your back and forth with Pamela Gray, very enlightening and constructive. That sort of discourse will bring Anthony another &#8220;science blog of the year&#8221; award. Try to put yourself in my shoes and maybe you can understand my reaction a little better. Nothing personal and no hard feelings.</p>
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		<title>By: norah4you</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/06/20/interesting-times-at-the-north-pole/#comment-147191</link>
		<dc:creator>norah4you</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 04:54:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=8717#comment-147191</guid>
		<description>One of the most important factors to be discussed isn&#039;t the daily maximum temperatures, but the difference between minimum and maximum temperature measured at a station during the day. Please observe that I am not refering to median temperature since what needs to be done in order to have any readings up to scientific level to hold information on how many hours it&#039;s below freezing point and how many hours it&#039;s over. 

Also bear in mind that wind make the &#039;real&#039; temperature lower when we talk about temperatures below + 4 Celsius degrees. Which of course all that have had to use salt of any kind to keep larger areas icefree in non Arctic regions are aware of.

As for the icedrift, the changed GPS position of this and other stations are exactly what they should be had the normal centrifugal power been taken into consideration together with the fact that our Earth isn&#039;t a real globe but due to centrifugaleffects are more &#039;flat&#039; around the poles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the most important factors to be discussed isn&#8217;t the daily maximum temperatures, but the difference between minimum and maximum temperature measured at a station during the day. Please observe that I am not refering to median temperature since what needs to be done in order to have any readings up to scientific level to hold information on how many hours it&#8217;s below freezing point and how many hours it&#8217;s over. </p>
<p>Also bear in mind that wind make the &#8216;real&#8217; temperature lower when we talk about temperatures below + 4 Celsius degrees. Which of course all that have had to use salt of any kind to keep larger areas icefree in non Arctic regions are aware of.</p>
<p>As for the icedrift, the changed GPS position of this and other stations are exactly what they should be had the normal centrifugal power been taken into consideration together with the fact that our Earth isn&#8217;t a real globe but due to centrifugaleffects are more &#8216;flat&#8217; around the poles.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Evens</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/06/20/interesting-times-at-the-north-pole/#comment-147106</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Evens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 00:09:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=8717#comment-147106</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s kind of neat that this weather station resembles a probe sent to another planet. It can&#039;t expect any maintenance work if it gets in trouble. It has to rely on sending data back through a sattelite. It&#039;s expected to have a finite life span then die due to local conditions. It&#039;s really very much like sending a probe to Mars, except here it&#039;s ice instead of dust and grit that can block our view. Very interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s kind of neat that this weather station resembles a probe sent to another planet. It can&#8217;t expect any maintenance work if it gets in trouble. It has to rely on sending data back through a sattelite. It&#8217;s expected to have a finite life span then die due to local conditions. It&#8217;s really very much like sending a probe to Mars, except here it&#8217;s ice instead of dust and grit that can block our view. Very interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Shawn Whelan</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/06/20/interesting-times-at-the-north-pole/#comment-147092</link>
		<dc:creator>Shawn Whelan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 23:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=8717#comment-147092</guid>
		<description>Pamela,

The Canadian ice Service was quite political with this last year declaring the NW Passage open when it wasn&#039;t and they were caught on that one.  If my memory serves me they declared the northern route open when only an Ice Breaker could pass through and then tried to fudge their way out of it.

CIS is not quite lilly white.  They like a little AGW politics with their ice.

With the extent of cold in Northern Canada last year and the quick freeze in the Arctic and the continueing cold I expect the Arctic to have a greater extent at the minimum than in 2008.  In the 40&#039;s when the PDO changed to the cool cycle the Arctic rapidly realized an increase in ice and it was the end of easy summer travel for the Hudson Bay Company to stock it&#039;s outposts.  Some outposts were closed down due to the increased amounts of ice in the late &#039;40&#039;s.  expect history to repeat.  Really no need for all the fancy scientific stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pamela,</p>
<p>The Canadian ice Service was quite political with this last year declaring the NW Passage open when it wasn&#8217;t and they were caught on that one.  If my memory serves me they declared the northern route open when only an Ice Breaker could pass through and then tried to fudge their way out of it.</p>
<p>CIS is not quite lilly white.  They like a little AGW politics with their ice.</p>
<p>With the extent of cold in Northern Canada last year and the quick freeze in the Arctic and the continueing cold I expect the Arctic to have a greater extent at the minimum than in 2008.  In the 40&#8217;s when the PDO changed to the cool cycle the Arctic rapidly realized an increase in ice and it was the end of easy summer travel for the Hudson Bay Company to stock it&#8217;s outposts.  Some outposts were closed down due to the increased amounts of ice in the late &#8217;40&#8217;s.  expect history to repeat.  Really no need for all the fancy scientific stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Pamela Gray</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/06/20/interesting-times-at-the-north-pole/#comment-147066</link>
		<dc:creator>Pamela Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 21:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=8717#comment-147066</guid>
		<description>Flanagan, I am waiting for your thoughts on ice predictions given the above posts and links I provided.  Those that spend their time telling ships what to expect (and they had better be right because if not, lives are at stake) are indicating normal melt and no NW passage.  What say you to their predictions?  Are you sticking with an arbitrary linear trend that is only an artifact of the data, or are you willing to go with the expert opinions of real data?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Flanagan, I am waiting for your thoughts on ice predictions given the above posts and links I provided.  Those that spend their time telling ships what to expect (and they had better be right because if not, lives are at stake) are indicating normal melt and no NW passage.  What say you to their predictions?  Are you sticking with an arbitrary linear trend that is only an artifact of the data, or are you willing to go with the expert opinions of real data?</p>
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		<title>By: Flanagan</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/06/20/interesting-times-at-the-north-pole/#comment-147059</link>
		<dc:creator>Flanagan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 20:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=8717#comment-147059</guid>
		<description>Hi Pamela,

yes this is based on a linear extrapolation of the 2000s from the cryosphere. Linear trends is possible even for nonlinear behaviors if the period is short enough - at least this is what Taylor thought. Could you place a figure on the 2 sigmas prediction, because it all depends on the dataset you&#039;re using? Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Pamela,</p>
<p>yes this is based on a linear extrapolation of the 2000s from the cryosphere. Linear trends is possible even for nonlinear behaviors if the period is short enough &#8211; at least this is what Taylor thought. Could you place a figure on the 2 sigmas prediction, because it all depends on the dataset you&#8217;re using? Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam from Kansas</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/06/20/interesting-times-at-the-north-pole/#comment-147044</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam from Kansas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 19:38:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=8717#comment-147044</guid>
		<description>Okay, here&#039;s the big NOAA page with all the ENSO data
http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/MJO/enso.shtml

Whether or not an El Nino forms, look at all the data and see for yourself where it could be headed, who knows how this will affect things like Sea Ice, or whether it&#039;s already starting to affect Summer temperatures, it also doesn&#039;t quite look it&#039;ll get even near 1998 levels and it may not even get to 2006 levels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, here&#8217;s the big NOAA page with all the ENSO data<br />
<a href="http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/MJO/enso.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/MJO/enso.shtml</a></p>
<p>Whether or not an El Nino forms, look at all the data and see for yourself where it could be headed, who knows how this will affect things like Sea Ice, or whether it&#8217;s already starting to affect Summer temperatures, it also doesn&#8217;t quite look it&#8217;ll get even near 1998 levels and it may not even get to 2006 levels.</p>
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		<title>By: Pamela Gray</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/06/20/interesting-times-at-the-north-pole/#comment-147039</link>
		<dc:creator>Pamela Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 19:28:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=8717#comment-147039</guid>
		<description>Phil, good point, but it serves to remind us that fewer data points must be handled with a broader perspective on what is and is not significant.  I would never use 1standard deviation with fewer data points.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil, good point, but it serves to remind us that fewer data points must be handled with a broader perspective on what is and is not significant.  I would never use 1standard deviation with fewer data points.</p>
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		<title>By: Pamela Gray</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/06/20/interesting-times-at-the-north-pole/#comment-147038</link>
		<dc:creator>Pamela Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 19:25:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=8717#comment-147038</guid>
		<description>This is a well-researched and sound prediction.

http://ice-glaces.ec.gc.ca/prods/ARCTIC001/20090603000000_ARCTIC001_0004399792.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a well-researched and sound prediction.</p>
<p><a href="http://ice-glaces.ec.gc.ca/prods/ARCTIC001/20090603000000_ARCTIC001_0004399792.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://ice-glaces.ec.gc.ca/prods/ARCTIC001/20090603000000_ARCTIC001_0004399792.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: John F. Hultquist</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/06/20/interesting-times-at-the-north-pole/#comment-147022</link>
		<dc:creator>John F. Hultquist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 18:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=8717#comment-147022</guid>
		<description>John Peter (08:49:56) :   1987 Montreal Protocol re: ozone and CFCs

I haven’t seen much about the Ozone hole recently except that it still seems to come and go some 22 years after the Montreal Protocol.  Thus the title “Gas that saved the ozone layer . . . ” to which you refer seems to miss the mark.  One argument is that not enough time has gone by for the CFCs humans produced to have cleared the system and some sold before were later released.  On the other hand, maybe there are sufficient naturally supplied halogens in the atmosphere that the CFCs scare was bogus and that effort – phase out of CFCs and replacement with other chemicals – was just a preliminary to the current CO2 scam.

The latest go-round on this issue here on WUWT is:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/26/galactic-cosmic-rays-may-be-responsible-for-the-antarctic-ozone-hole/#more-6560

The main thrust of the article of that post was directed toward the role cosmic rays play in the process in contrast to sunlight.  The article did not address directly the sources of the halogen molecules, nor did the comments add enough clarity for me.  Still, I favor the idea that the ozone hole predated the industrially derived CFCs and that it (the hole) will continue to expand and contract.  

The above post was re-opened for comments but for how long I do not know.  Maybe we’ll find a new paper on the issue soon and have another go at this issue.  The prediction for a severe ozone hole this year (2009) made in the mentioned article is soon to be tested.  Maybe this will induce a few articles if it does prove true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Peter (08:49:56) :   1987 Montreal Protocol re: ozone and CFCs</p>
<p>I haven’t seen much about the Ozone hole recently except that it still seems to come and go some 22 years after the Montreal Protocol.  Thus the title “Gas that saved the ozone layer . . . ” to which you refer seems to miss the mark.  One argument is that not enough time has gone by for the CFCs humans produced to have cleared the system and some sold before were later released.  On the other hand, maybe there are sufficient naturally supplied halogens in the atmosphere that the CFCs scare was bogus and that effort – phase out of CFCs and replacement with other chemicals – was just a preliminary to the current CO2 scam.</p>
<p>The latest go-round on this issue here on WUWT is:</p>
<p><a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/26/galactic-cosmic-rays-may-be-responsible-for-the-antarctic-ozone-hole/#more-6560" rel="nofollow">http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/26/galactic-cosmic-rays-may-be-responsible-for-the-antarctic-ozone-hole/#more-6560</a></p>
<p>The main thrust of the article of that post was directed toward the role cosmic rays play in the process in contrast to sunlight.  The article did not address directly the sources of the halogen molecules, nor did the comments add enough clarity for me.  Still, I favor the idea that the ozone hole predated the industrially derived CFCs and that it (the hole) will continue to expand and contract.  </p>
<p>The above post was re-opened for comments but for how long I do not know.  Maybe we’ll find a new paper on the issue soon and have another go at this issue.  The prediction for a severe ozone hole this year (2009) made in the mentioned article is soon to be tested.  Maybe this will induce a few articles if it does prove true.</p>
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		<title>By: Pamela Gray</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/06/20/interesting-times-at-the-north-pole/#comment-147017</link>
		<dc:creator>Pamela Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 18:31:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=8717#comment-147017</guid>
		<description>To help in understanding historical weather data, use the same webcam site.  Notice the wind patterns (that is while the device is not frozen up) during high melt years.  Notice this year so far.  A definite change.  This is just one statistic used to predict rather normal melt for 2009, if you care to look at the data yourself and skip the global warming dogma based on a linear trend (IE It will melt like a child&#039;s icecream cone).

http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/gallery_np.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To help in understanding historical weather data, use the same webcam site.  Notice the wind patterns (that is while the device is not frozen up) during high melt years.  Notice this year so far.  A definite change.  This is just one statistic used to predict rather normal melt for 2009, if you care to look at the data yourself and skip the global warming dogma based on a linear trend (IE It will melt like a child&#8217;s icecream cone).</p>
<p><a href="http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/gallery_np.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/gallery_np.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Pamela Gray</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/06/20/interesting-times-at-the-north-pole/#comment-147013</link>
		<dc:creator>Pamela Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 18:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=8717#comment-147013</guid>
		<description>Two questions Flanagan, 

1. Are you referring to a linear trend?  But the historical sea ice data that creates the mean and standard deviations of the mean do not act linearly.

2. Using a non linear averaging statistic, what would your prediction be in terms of its relationship to 2 standard deviations from the mean?

Given the current measurement and its residence well inside the 2 standard deviation area, and given the predicted weather, current, and wind patterns through the summer, I predict a greater chance (better than 50%) of maximum melt to be within the 2 standard deviation of the mean.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two questions Flanagan, </p>
<p>1. Are you referring to a linear trend?  But the historical sea ice data that creates the mean and standard deviations of the mean do not act linearly.</p>
<p>2. Using a non linear averaging statistic, what would your prediction be in terms of its relationship to 2 standard deviations from the mean?</p>
<p>Given the current measurement and its residence well inside the 2 standard deviation area, and given the predicted weather, current, and wind patterns through the summer, I predict a greater chance (better than 50%) of maximum melt to be within the 2 standard deviation of the mean.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil.</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/06/20/interesting-times-at-the-north-pole/#comment-147008</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 18:12:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=8717#comment-147008</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Pamela Gray (09:36:09) :
To continue my thoughts, this site uses plus or minus one standard deviation on its graphs and therefore should be used with caution when saying something significant about the ice.

http://arctic-roos.org/observations/satellite-data/sea-ice/ice-area-and-extent-in-arctic

This site uses the more acceptable plus or minus two standard deviations and is therefore more usable when saying something significant about the ice.

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2009/050409.html&lt;/em&gt;

Acceptability depends on the number of data points, for a small number of data points two standard deviations could be very unlikely.
Check out Chauvenet&#039;s criterion for example.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Pamela Gray (09:36:09) :<br />
To continue my thoughts, this site uses plus or minus one standard deviation on its graphs and therefore should be used with caution when saying something significant about the ice.</p>
<p><a href="http://arctic-roos.org/observations/satellite-data/sea-ice/ice-area-and-extent-in-arctic" rel="nofollow">http://arctic-roos.org/observations/satellite-data/sea-ice/ice-area-and-extent-in-arctic</a></p>
<p>This site uses the more acceptable plus or minus two standard deviations and is therefore more usable when saying something significant about the ice.</p>
<p><a href="http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2009/050409.html" rel="nofollow">http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2009/050409.html</a></em></p>
<p>Acceptability depends on the number of data points, for a small number of data points two standard deviations could be very unlikely.<br />
Check out Chauvenet&#8217;s criterion for example.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil.</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/06/20/interesting-times-at-the-north-pole/#comment-147004</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 18:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=8717#comment-147004</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Carsten Arnholm, Norway (02:12:24) :
Phil. (19:16:20) :
&quot;The camera transmitter has been on the frizz for a few weeks but now seems to have sent some data. Rather than a snow drift and/or pressure ridge has blocked the view of the weather station it appears to be snow accumulation on the camera itself (checkout the crystals in this photo).
http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/npole/2009/images/tmp/noaa1-2009-0618-041044.jpg.tmp&quot;

I don’t think so. Those crystals are in sharp focus while at the same time the weather station in the background is also fairly well focused. Webcams normally have very short focal length lenses, but no ordinary webcam will be able to focus at zero distance from the lens and several tens of meters away at the same time.

That snow and ice should be something like a meter away from the camera, maybe more.&lt;/em&gt;

Not at zero but certainly those lenses will focus at a minimum distance of ~0.1m which is what that image looks like, so it is snow on the camera housing is what&#039;s being seen, not a snow drift or pressure ridge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Carsten Arnholm, Norway (02:12:24) :<br />
Phil. (19:16:20) :<br />
&#8220;The camera transmitter has been on the frizz for a few weeks but now seems to have sent some data. Rather than a snow drift and/or pressure ridge has blocked the view of the weather station it appears to be snow accumulation on the camera itself (checkout the crystals in this photo).<br />
<a href="http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/npole/2009/images/tmp/noaa1-2009-0618-041044.jpg.tmp" rel="nofollow">http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/npole/2009/images/tmp/noaa1-2009-0618-041044.jpg.tmp</a>&#8221;</p>
<p>I don’t think so. Those crystals are in sharp focus while at the same time the weather station in the background is also fairly well focused. Webcams normally have very short focal length lenses, but no ordinary webcam will be able to focus at zero distance from the lens and several tens of meters away at the same time.</p>
<p>That snow and ice should be something like a meter away from the camera, maybe more.</em></p>
<p>Not at zero but certainly those lenses will focus at a minimum distance of ~0.1m which is what that image looks like, so it is snow on the camera housing is what&#8217;s being seen, not a snow drift or pressure ridge.</p>
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