This is why I’m creating my own cheap pools; You play a crucial role in this area.

Fusion, cheap above ground swimming pools

Notice that Greenland, Alaska, and western Siberia areas are running 4-5 C above the baseline average. Not coincidentally, both coasts of Greenland melted off fast, and open water is already present along much of the coast of Siberia.
http://iup.physik.uni-bremen.de:8084/amsr/arctic_AMSRE_nic.png

The colder than normal temperatures this year in central northern Canada, seems to have delayed the ice melt in Hudson’s Bay, but the ice pack at these lower latitudes should melt out fast in the coming weeks, so expect the ice extent to drop faster than normal.

Given the huge loss in thicker multiyear ice the last two years, the ice pack is bad shape. The comments we have been reading about ice pack is back to normal, and the ice pack is recovering, seem to be pretty far off the mark.

http://www.nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/images/daily_images/N_timeseries.png

http://arctic-roos.org/observations/satellite-data/sea-ice/observation_images/ssmi1_ice_ext.png

Using the link
http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?mosaic=Arctic

You can see the real time picture of the arctic which maps the AMRSE data very well if not perfectly.

Quote Phil from the Climate Audit thread comment 235 (“he” meaning Amundsen)

He, of course, started that journey in 1918 and finished it on foot two years later, his ship took rather longer being towed out of the ice by a coastguard vessel in 1921 I think.

Quote Shawn Climate Audit thread 236
Not true at all. Amundsen went throught the NE Passage and the NW Passage and he did circumnavigate the Arctic.

How did they do that before a hundred plus years of global warming warmed the Arctic?

Quote Phil from the Climate Audit thread comment 237

By taking several summers for each crossing and when necessary hiking the rest of the way.

Totally untrue neither Amundsen or Nordenskjöld hiked any part of the way. They both took their boats through the passages.

http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=5614#comment-337310

I rest my case.

Quote Phil
As the account below makes clear he didn’t “sail the length of the Northern Route of the NW Passage”.

Of course he sailed the length of the passage. Here is a map for reference.

http://www.canada-maps.org/northwest-territories/images/northwest-territories-map.gif

Here is what I wrote at comment 236 in the climate Audit thread

Not true at all. Amundsen went throught the NE Passage and the NW Passage and he did circumnavigate the Arctic.

“After World War I, Amundsen planned to drift from the Bering Strait towards the North Pole in the Maud. Taking the Northeast Passage to the Bering Strait (1918-20), he became the second man (the first was Nils Nordenskjöld)to sail along the whole northern coast of Europe and Asia.”

http://history.howstuffworks.com/polar-history/roald-amundsen.htm/printable

Nils Nordenskjöld
“1878-79: The Swedish explorer was the first to complete a voyage through the Northeast Passage along the northern coast of Europe and Asia. Travelling in the steamship Vega, he started in 1878 from Norway and, after spending one winter ice-bound in the Arctic, finally emerged into the Pacific Ocean.”

http://www.athropolis.com/map6.htm

How did they do that before a hundred plus years of global warming warmed the Arctic?

Here is Phils answer at comment 237

By taking several summers for each crossing and when necessary hiking the rest of the way.

Complete and utter nonsense. There is no other way to describe it.

Niether Amundsen or Nordenskjöld completed their passages by hiking the rest of the way. They both traversed the passages with their boats.

This is what Phil says in this thread at 12:14.
The point of my statement “Also Amundsen had to have his ship rescued from the ice by the alaskan coastguard after his NE passage trip in and area which was open water last year.

This is what Phil said at comment 235 of the Climate audit thread. He being Amundsen.
He, of course, started that journey in 1918 and finished it on foot two years later, his ship took rather longer being towed out of the ice by a coastguard vessel in 1921 I think.

Not quite the truth Phil. Amundsen never completed the passage by foot. Your distorting the truth and also not being honest about what you said.

http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=5614#comment-337310

I am not taking sides in your entertaining spats with Shawn :) on a variety of issues, I am merely commenting on the Amundsen expedition of 1903-06 when I said;

“Amundsen intended to stay at Gjoahavn (or whatever suitable anchorage he found) for the following year. He brought sufficient provisions for his crew plus the basic materials to carry out various activities such as building an observatory and huts and the items needed to carry out long term experiments. He wanted to relocate the magnetic north pole and carry out related magnetic readings.

… lets be diplomatic and say that Amundsen had no intention of leaving in 1904 whether or not he would have been able to.”

Amundsen wanterd to make continuous recordings of the magnetic elements during at least one full season and needed to be around 100 miles from magnetic north, so gjoa haven self selected itself because it was sheltered. They built an observatory and a living hut and intended to spend 1904 there.

Whether they COULD have got out or not I am not arguing about. I am merely saying they did not intend to move.

I think the most interesting things about this is the variabilty in ice between 1903 and 1904, and the fact that, despite a cold summer in 1904, November 18,21 and 22 1904 remain the warmest days in the record.

I am not making any point of this or saying Amundsen would have attempted to sail at this time of year, but merely that variability season to season and even day to day is the norm.

P.s. Much enjoyed your contribution to the co2 condensation debate although you did get a little heated at times :)

TonyB

I am sorry, but what is “modis”? I find the word only in your post, and you give no link.

http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/realtime/

The only daily ice updates I know are at http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/

all between are identical.

How did you miss the following statement at CT?

“February 25, 2009 – The SSMI images for many days in 2009 were bad enough that we removed them from this comparison display (see note below and the NSIDC website). There is enough interest in these side-by-side comparison images that we will try to replace them with corresponding images from the AMSR-E sensor in the coming weeks.

February 17, 2009 – The SSMI sensor seems to be acting up and dropping data swaths from time to time in recent days. Missing swaths will appear on these images as missing data in the southern latitudes. If this persists for more than a few weeks, we will start to fill in these missing data swaths with the ice concentration from the previous day or switch over to the higher resolution AMSR-E sensor. Note – these missing swaths do not affect the timeseries or any other plots on the Cryosphere Today as they are comprised of moving composites of at least three days.”

So, yes, there must be artists, be they computer programs, that produce the daily nice view on cryosphere.

No it’s the satellite called AMSR-E.

Here’s one that sailed the length of the Northern Route of the NW Passage.
What Bernier did in 1911 won’t be possible this year after almost a hundred years of AGW.

As the account below makes clear he didn’t “sail the length of the Northern Route of the NW Passage”.

On the Arctic’s third expedition in 1910-11, Bernier took the vessel North to patrol the Davis Strait, Baffin Bay, Lancaster Sound, Barrow Strait, Viscount Melville Sound and McClure Strait. Open water in McClure Strait tempted Bernier to attempt the Northwest Passage, but because this would have exceeded his orders, he resisted.

Finding the clear water is not the same thing as actually sailing it and would not guarantee that he would be able to get though past Banks I. Despite your confident assertion that such a journey won’t be possible this year is was possible in 2007 and last year. See for example:
http://iup.physik.uni-bremen.de:8084/amsredata/asi_daygrid_swath/l1a/n6250/_2007/aug/asi180-n6250-20070830_nic.png

It is quite useless to have a factual argument with Phil on this topic.
He routinely provides fictional accounts with no factual backup.

The problem is your persistent exaggeration and mis-statements on the subject and refusal to accept verifiable facts in rebuttal.

Phil does not seek to learn the facts but obtusely defends his AGW belief the facts be darned.

What AGW belief? The discussion is about the historical record, and absurd statements, repeatedly made by you, such as ‘Amundsen easily traversed the NW passage’.

Amundsen could have left in 1904. It was not a joy ride and he was there to perform precise scientific experiments. It is an old wives tale that he was stuck in the ice.

Only if Amundsen himself is the ‘old wife’. As his account in “The North West Passage”, vol 1, which I referred to and quoted from above, makes clear the Gjoa could not have continued in 1904:
” Late in July he refers to Simpson Strait being closed but hopes it might melt. However, early in August Hansen left to establish a depot at Cape Crozier for the following spring’s reconnaissance trip, Simpson Strait was blocked with ice both on the way out and on their return (7th Sept). Gjoahavn froze completely by 21st Sept.
Summarizing their experience that summer Amundsen writes:
“The summer had been cold and inclement and there had been very little open water for navigation. (using dories and kayaks not the Gjoa: Phil.) We could only hope for better luck next year.””

http://www.mnc.net/norway/Amundsen.htm

As an example I just recently explained to Phil that his claim that Amundsen was rescued by the Alaska coast guard is false and provided the proof. Amundsen went through the NE Passage left the Maud which turned back and delibaretely froze itself in the ice. Amundsen was no where near the Maud when it was rescued. Now he makes the same false claim. It goes on and on.

It was not a false claim, as usual the actual discussion has been changed by Shawn. He stated that “And after Amundsen went through the NW Passage he later went through the NE passage and completed the circle around the North Pole. And then after that the AGW caused the Arctic to warm for 100 plus years and the ice level appears to have increased or stayed at the same level.”

The point of my statement “Also Amundsen had to have his ship rescued from the ice by the alaskan coastguard after his NE passage trip in and area which was open water last year. Also the attempt to claim Wrangel Island by a US/Canadian expedition in 1922 failed because it was cut off for resupply for over a year (all except for one woman died). So your account of greater ice seems not to agree with those events.” was clearly to show that conditions in 1922 were not better than today’s but worse.
According to the Proceedings of the United States Naval Institute in 1922 “Ice conditions in the Arctic off the Northern Alaskan coast are the worst in many years. Captain Cochran, of the Bear (the ship that rescued the Maud: Phil.), guided his vessel for mile through tremendous ice floes, reaching Point Barrow with difficulty.

As an example check this exchange in the climate audit thread. Phil is now making many of the same false claims again here that I just proved wrong in that thread.

You didn’t prove those facts wrong then and you haven’t now.

No point in going through it again with Phil. Read here instead of doing the whole discussion again. Starts at comment 227.
http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=5614#comment-337310

Why is it that so many of the AGW scientists are more concerned with holding their position than searching for the truth?

What does this have to do with AGW, we’re discussing your exaggerations and mis-statements?

I think one follows the other although not neccesarily quickly and not always in the same place all the time.

Tonyb

Thanks for this. I have the general climate records of the Byzantine empire but was not aware of this site so will have a look around. It is a fascinating era, all the better for having administrators documenting many things so well.

Tonyb