If global warmers are so enamored by the radiative effect of CO2, then by the same reasoning water vapor in the upper atmosphere would radiate heat as well but on a much larger scale when heated by microwaves.

And I would like to thank him for both.
Excellent work and an interesting read.

I am looking forward to the next publication.

The F10.7 flux is the sum of two components: one is the emission from spots and that is clearly smaller if there are fewer spots. In that sense 2008/2009 is more quiet than 1954, but not by much [2008: 2.9 vs. 1954: 4.4]. The other component [the base level] depends on the density and temperature of the corona which in turn are caused by the overall magnetic field. and that baseline is the same at all minima, and we surmise even during the Maunder Minimum.

A question. I am still unclear as to the data to allow comparison between the Maunder Minimum and now. That is, the assumption that the lack of sunspots then was caused by the same conditions as now. Is it possible for the magnetic field to have been more quiescent or smooth or for some other causation???
As per Al Gore, everything is possible if you on’t know what is going on :-)
On the other hand we do know that the modulation of cosmic rays during the Maunder was almost as strong as it is now, so there is evidence that solar conditions were not that different.

Some spectral lines are VERY sensitive to even minute changes in temperature. Livingston et al. has very carefully measured the line depth of such temperature-sensitive lines over more than 30 years spanning three solar cycles [Sun-as-a-Star Spectrum Variations 1974-2006, W. Livingston, L. Wallace, O. R. White, M. S. Giampapa, The Astrophysical Journal, Volume 657, Issue 2, pp. 1137-1149, 2007, DOI; 10.1086/511127]. They report “that both Ca II K and C I 5380A intensities are constant, indicating that the basal quiet atmosphere is unaffected by cycle magnetism within our observational error. A lower limit to the Ca II K central intensity atmosphere is 0.040. This possibly represents conditions as they were during the Maunder Minimum [their words, remember]. Within our capability to measure it using the C I 5380A line the global (Full Disk) and basal (Center Disk) photospheric temperature is constant over the activity cycles 21, 22, and 23″. I have known Bill Livingston [and White] for over 36 years and he is a very careful and competent observer.

Since the 1960 we have known that the sun’s surface oscillates up and down [with typical periods of ~5 minutes]. These oscillations are waves very much like seismic waves in the Earth [caused by earthquakes] and just as earthquake seismic waves can be used to probe the interior of the Earth, they can be used to probe the solar interior. There are millions of such solar waves at any given time and there are different kinds (called ‘modes’) of waves. The solar p-modes are acoustic [sound waves] normal modes. You one can imagine a frequency increase with an increasing magnetic field, due to the increase in magnetic pressure raising the local speed of sound near the surface where it is cooler and where the p-modes spend most of their time. Of course one can also imagine higher frequencies may result from an induced shrinking of the sound cavity and/or an isobaric warming of the cavity. Another kind is the solar f-modes that are the eigenmodes of the sun having no radial null points [i.e. asymptotically surface waves; II apologize for the technical mumbo-jumbo]. From the solar cycle variations of p- and f-modes [and we have now enough data from the SOHO spacecraft to make such a study] we now have an internally consistent picture of the origin of these frequency changes that implies a sun that is coolest at activity maximum when it is most irradiant. Goode and Dziembowski (Sunshine, Earthshine and Climate Change I. Origin of, and Limits on Solar Variability, by Goode, Philip R. & Dziembowski, W. A., Journal of the Korean Astronomical Society, vol. 36, S1, pp. S75-S81, 2003) used the helioseismic data to determine the shape changes in the Sun with rising activity. They calculated the so-called shape asymmetries from the seismic data and found each coefficient was essentially zero at activity minimum and rose in precise spatial correlation with rising surface activity, as measured using Ca II K data from Big Bear Solar Observatory. From this one can conclude that there is a rising corrugation of the solar surface due to rising activity, implying a sun, whose increased irradiance is totally due to activity induced corrugation. This interpretation has been recently observationally verified by Berger et al. (Berger, T.E., van der Voort, L., Rouppe, Loefdahl, M., Contrast analysis of Solar faculae and magnetic bright points. Astrophysical Journal, vol. 661, p.1272, 2007) using the new Swedish Solar Telescope. They have directly observed these corrugations. Goode & Dziembowski conclude that the Sun cannot have been any dimmer than it is now at activity minimum.

So, there is other independent evidence. But, of course, we are still just speculating. My own feeling is that solar activity was not much lower during the Maunder Minimum, we just couldn’t see the invisible sunspots.

we appreciate you for presenting the data accurately and with little or no bias.

Unfortunately you keep presenting the current minimum as almost typical. For example, the graph you show of the F10.7 comparing current to 1954 you claim shows similarity. It does not. The current F10.7 has little amplitude excursion from the base, yet, the 1954 data, even during its quietest, has substantially larger excursions than current. ???????

A question. I am still unclear as to the data to allow comparison between the Maunder Minimum and now. That is, the assumption that the lack of sunspots then was caused by the same conditions as now. Is it possible for the magnetic field to have been more quiescent or smooth or for some other causation???

Nasif Nahle (23:47:32) Actually, literal genes and physical cells have nothing to do with my reference. My use of “cellular memory” was an allusion to the subconcious mind, which also controls the placebo effect. Humans hold many faiths and belief systems of which we are not consciously aware. This allows for the spectrum of preference and desire that we engage in. My own perception is that it is our subconcious projected onto our external environment that suggests an object worth worshipping, identifying it as not-self.

It’s seems I misinterpreted your assertion. I apologize.

Nasif Nahle (23:47:32):

I was expecting a comment from you :)

Heh! You know more a biologist than the biologist himself. As you can see, I’m almost a predictable deterministic biosystem… :)

From the link you posted:

By researching with his colleagues, Goldberger was able to discover that heart rates show fractal patterns. This is not because of physical reasons, as many might believe, but because of physiological reasons.

Nevertheless, those physiological reasons are determined by physicochemical processes; thus, the apparent chaos of heartbeats is deterministic.

Chaos refers to two analogous systems which are originated in two points and exhibit a very small margin of difference of their initial conditions; after a long enough period of time, the systems will evolve toward two completely different final states. Nevertheless, in a healthy human biosystem each heartbeat ends on the same expected result, that is, the emission of an electrochemical impulse, the systole and the expulsion of blood towards arteries or veins, although they would differ every so often. From the biophysics point of view, heartbeats would be chaotic if the electrochemical impulse was generated and the result was absolutely different to a beat.

Divergences on time intervals don’t necessarily are chaos.

Regarding fractality, from the same link, it’s a children’s game. Fractality occurs in the subatomic and/or quantum levels, so it is logical that the macrostructures show some degree of fractality.

Nasif Nahle (23:47:32) “Although we humans have a set of genes which induces us to think about something supernatural governing our lives, no one of those genes specifies the objects of worshiping.”
Actually, literal genes and physical cells have nothing to do with my reference. My use of “cellular memory” was an allusion to the subconcious mind, which also controls the plecebo effect. Humans hold many faiths and belief systems of which we are not consciously aware. This allows for the spectrum of preference and desire that we engage in. My own perception is that it is our subconcious projected onto our external environment that suggests an object worth worshipping, identifying it as not-self.

I was expecting a comment from you :)

Though my proposal is very much speculative and tongue in cheek, it is less than the famous gene propagation that was in a decade or two ago. Also I hope that your interest in climate has taught you to never say “never” :).

I have been following on and off some lectures on chaos and complexity in disciplines from physics to biology, they are organized by a biologist in the institute and are supposed to be frontier research. Of course chaos in the mathematical sense, not the colloquial.

A yahoo search turns up this first for “chaos” “biology”, http://www.govhs.org/vhsweb/Gallery.nsf/Files/Fractals+&+Chaos+In+Biology+/$file/fractals_and_chaos_in_biology.ppt

However, there’s another region of some activity coming into view and from its lattitude its a cycle 23 remnant. Actually it has been visible for over a week now by Stereo at at least a similar level of (non?) activity as the current small plague/spot regions. It would be interesting to see if it too has developed a small spot.