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	<title>Comments on: A question for the Catlin Arctic Survey: what happens to the fuel drums?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/05/04/question-for-catlin-arctic-survey-what-happens-to-the-fuel-drums/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/05/04/question-for-catlin-arctic-survey-what-happens-to-the-fuel-drums/</link>
	<description>The world&#039;s most viewed site on global warming and climate change</description>
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		<title>By: Tj</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/05/04/question-for-catlin-arctic-survey-what-happens-to-the-fuel-drums/#comment-167594</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tj]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 07:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=7569#comment-167594</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Damned if they do, damned if they don&#039;t.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damned if they do, damned if they don&#8217;t.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Glenn</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/05/04/question-for-catlin-arctic-survey-what-happens-to-the-fuel-drums/#comment-132563</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Glenn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 08:49:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=7569#comment-132563</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[1944-
&quot;It took only 86 days to sail from Halifax to Vancouver. The route taken, through Parry Channel, and then Prince of Wales Strait at its western end, will most certainly be the one first used by commercial shipping as global warming accelerates the thinning of the Arctic ice cover.&quot;

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=ArchivedFeatures&amp;Params=A2134

1977-
&quot;The Belgian, Willie de Roos, sailing his 44 ft steel sailboat became the first sailboat to transit the passage and completing the voyage in one season.&quot;

http://www.theoceans.net/story/NorthwestPassageSunstartingtoshineonFineToleranceApr72005.shtml]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1944-<br />
&#8220;It took only 86 days to sail from Halifax to Vancouver. The route taken, through Parry Channel, and then Prince of Wales Strait at its western end, will most certainly be the one first used by commercial shipping as global warming accelerates the thinning of the Arctic ice cover.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=ArchivedFeatures&#038;Params=A2134" rel="nofollow">http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=ArchivedFeatures&#038;Params=A2134</a></p>
<p>1977-<br />
&#8220;The Belgian, Willie de Roos, sailing his 44 ft steel sailboat became the first sailboat to transit the passage and completing the voyage in one season.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.theoceans.net/story/NorthwestPassageSunstartingtoshineonFineToleranceApr72005.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.theoceans.net/story/NorthwestPassageSunstartingtoshineonFineToleranceApr72005.shtml</a></p>
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		<title>By: Nic</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/05/04/question-for-catlin-arctic-survey-what-happens-to-the-fuel-drums/#comment-132526</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 06:01:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=7569#comment-132526</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[...and now, for your summertime interest:

http://www.openpassageexpedition.com/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;and now, for your summertime interest:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.openpassageexpedition.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.openpassageexpedition.com/</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: JR</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/05/04/question-for-catlin-arctic-survey-what-happens-to-the-fuel-drums/#comment-130000</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JR]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 16:13:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=7569#comment-130000</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Now they have not made a report for three days.

 There is a post today that says the team will be extracted this week. It also says that they take 75 ice and snow measurements per day. 

A post last week said they spend &quot;4-5 hours of science measurements per day. Measurements include snow thickness; the thickness of the freeboard (the layer of ice that sits above the waterline, usually 10-15% of the overall ice thickness); the draft (the layer of ice that sits below the waterline – usually 85-90% of overall thickness); the snow temperature and snow density.&quot; 

Hmmmmmm, how no they have time to each day to (1) break camp, (2) walk 10 kilometers (they almost never walk less), (3) take 75 measurements for 4 or 5 hours, and (4) set up camp, and (5) cook, eat, clean up, charge batteries, clean equipment, etc.?

Also, when they stay in the same place like they have now for some 2+ weeks, where do they take their 75 measurements each day?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now they have not made a report for three days.</p>
<p> There is a post today that says the team will be extracted this week. It also says that they take 75 ice and snow measurements per day. </p>
<p>A post last week said they spend &#8220;4-5 hours of science measurements per day. Measurements include snow thickness; the thickness of the freeboard (the layer of ice that sits above the waterline, usually 10-15% of the overall ice thickness); the draft (the layer of ice that sits below the waterline – usually 85-90% of overall thickness); the snow temperature and snow density.&#8221; </p>
<p>Hmmmmmm, how no they have time to each day to (1) break camp, (2) walk 10 kilometers (they almost never walk less), (3) take 75 measurements for 4 or 5 hours, and (4) set up camp, and (5) cook, eat, clean up, charge batteries, clean equipment, etc.?</p>
<p>Also, when they stay in the same place like they have now for some 2+ weeks, where do they take their 75 measurements each day?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Phil.</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/05/04/question-for-catlin-arctic-survey-what-happens-to-the-fuel-drums/#comment-129327</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Phil.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 16:30:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=7569#comment-129327</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Borek&#039;s procedures for fuel caches briefly described here.



http://www.catlinarcticsurvey.com/headline.aspx?postId=184]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Borek&#8217;s procedures for fuel caches briefly described here.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.catlinarcticsurvey.com/headline.aspx?postId=184" rel="nofollow">http://www.catlinarcticsurvey.com/headline.aspx?postId=184</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Steveh</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/05/04/question-for-catlin-arctic-survey-what-happens-to-the-fuel-drums/#comment-129090</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steveh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 03:26:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=7569#comment-129090</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Something odd seems to be happening with the &#039;distance to pole&#039; values since they&#039;ve been resupplied.
The distance has been decreasing dramatically compared to the distance travelled and doesn&#039;t match the reported co-ordinates.
Here are the figures I&#039;ve tracked so far:
Date, latitiude, longitude, dist travelled, dist to pole
28-apr, 85.126111, -123.961667, 382.25, 542
29-apr, 85.193333, -124.041389, 388.90, 535.6
30-apr, 85.230556, -124.625000, 392.60, 531.9
1-may, 85.211389, -124.289722, 391.14, 533.38
5-may, 85.279444, -124.951111, 397.81, 526.7
7-may, 85.315833, -125.011111, 403.37, 501.15
8-may, 85.386389, -124.809722, 411.14, 484.48
9-may, 85.466667, -124.265833, 421.14, 470.04

All looks ok up to 5-May but from 7-May onwards the distance to pole drops much further than the distance travelled.
eg. Compare 8-may to 9-may.  distance travelled for the day is has changed by 10km, yet the distance to pole for the day has changed 14.4km.

I&#039;ve also looked at the latitude/longitude co-ordinates using google earth to compare distances from the pole.  All the co-ordinates match very closely the reported values until 5-may.  After that things start to vary.
On 9-may google earth reports a distance of 505.8km to the pole, yet Catlin report 470km.  

An honest mistake or are they deliberatly reducing the figure so they can at least report they made it half way?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something odd seems to be happening with the &#8216;distance to pole&#8217; values since they&#8217;ve been resupplied.<br />
The distance has been decreasing dramatically compared to the distance travelled and doesn&#8217;t match the reported co-ordinates.<br />
Here are the figures I&#8217;ve tracked so far:<br />
Date, latitiude, longitude, dist travelled, dist to pole<br />
28-apr, 85.126111, -123.961667, 382.25, 542<br />
29-apr, 85.193333, -124.041389, 388.90, 535.6<br />
30-apr, 85.230556, -124.625000, 392.60, 531.9<br />
1-may, 85.211389, -124.289722, 391.14, 533.38<br />
5-may, 85.279444, -124.951111, 397.81, 526.7<br />
7-may, 85.315833, -125.011111, 403.37, 501.15<br />
8-may, 85.386389, -124.809722, 411.14, 484.48<br />
9-may, 85.466667, -124.265833, 421.14, 470.04</p>
<p>All looks ok up to 5-May but from 7-May onwards the distance to pole drops much further than the distance travelled.<br />
eg. Compare 8-may to 9-may.  distance travelled for the day is has changed by 10km, yet the distance to pole for the day has changed 14.4km.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve also looked at the latitude/longitude co-ordinates using google earth to compare distances from the pole.  All the co-ordinates match very closely the reported values until 5-may.  After that things start to vary.<br />
On 9-may google earth reports a distance of 505.8km to the pole, yet Catlin report 470km.  </p>
<p>An honest mistake or are they deliberatly reducing the figure so they can at least report they made it half way?</p>
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		<title>By: MikeInLV</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/05/04/question-for-catlin-arctic-survey-what-happens-to-the-fuel-drums/#comment-127578</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MikeInLV]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 16:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=7569#comment-127578</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Does everyone really think the Catlin expedition would litter the Artic?  Those are really biodegradable drums.  

Get with the program people!  Pffft!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does everyone really think the Catlin expedition would litter the Artic?  Those are really biodegradable drums.  </p>
<p>Get with the program people!  Pffft!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ron House</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/05/04/question-for-catlin-arctic-survey-what-happens-to-the-fuel-drums/#comment-127288</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ron House]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 04:52:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=7569#comment-127288</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To Adoucette and Terry: It will take a lot longer than 4 million years, but trebling or quadrupling the rate of natural rotational slowdown of the planet is to cause real and serious threats to life - admittedly at a very great distance in the future, but I fail to see why deliberately causing harm, including death, to our distant descendants is any the less of a crime than doing it to someone tomorrow. It may be slow, but tidal power is the only non-renewable energy source that actually causes irreversible damage, as opposed to merely making the non-renewable resource unavailable. In that sense it is far worse than any other form of energy usage. To get a timeframe if all our energy came from tidal power, multiply the natural lengthening of the day by four or so.

Oh, and Terry, if you think this is just a giggle, you might try actually saying what&#039;s wrong with my analysis so we can conduct a sensible discussion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Adoucette and Terry: It will take a lot longer than 4 million years, but trebling or quadrupling the rate of natural rotational slowdown of the planet is to cause real and serious threats to life &#8211; admittedly at a very great distance in the future, but I fail to see why deliberately causing harm, including death, to our distant descendants is any the less of a crime than doing it to someone tomorrow. It may be slow, but tidal power is the only non-renewable energy source that actually causes irreversible damage, as opposed to merely making the non-renewable resource unavailable. In that sense it is far worse than any other form of energy usage. To get a timeframe if all our energy came from tidal power, multiply the natural lengthening of the day by four or so.</p>
<p>Oh, and Terry, if you think this is just a giggle, you might try actually saying what&#8217;s wrong with my analysis so we can conduct a sensible discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: mosesstars</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/05/04/question-for-catlin-arctic-survey-what-happens-to-the-fuel-drums/#comment-127029</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mosesstars]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 18:13:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=7569#comment-127029</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Something most scientists forget is anything you observe you effect.  So both have to be taken in to account when considering any exploration.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something most scientists forget is anything you observe you effect.  So both have to be taken in to account when considering any exploration.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Just The Facts</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/05/04/question-for-catlin-arctic-survey-what-happens-to-the-fuel-drums/#comment-126953</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Just The Facts]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 16:23:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=7569#comment-126953</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Update from BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8033969.stm]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Update from BBC: <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8033969.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8033969.stm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Phil.</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/05/04/question-for-catlin-arctic-survey-what-happens-to-the-fuel-drums/#comment-126952</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Phil.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 16:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=7569#comment-126952</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;Leon Brozyna (08:11:48) :
Now I wonder if the BBC will also breathlessly report on the state of the fuel caches?&lt;/em&gt;

I doubt whether Borek is being paid so well for their services to be able to abandon 100s of gallons of Jet A (avg price in Alaska $5.50/gal).  Since they fly all over the Arctic for many clients I&#039;m sure that the various caches get used regularly, on their return trips if not fully laden they would be able to carry empty drums back with them.  My fuel supplier used to have a deposit on the drums so it was worth sending them back (except for the one we cut up to make a bbq grill!).
The Russians set an excellent example for stewardship with their NP stations, when they are abandoned everything is taken back.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Leon Brozyna (08:11:48) :<br />
Now I wonder if the BBC will also breathlessly report on the state of the fuel caches?</em></p>
<p>I doubt whether Borek is being paid so well for their services to be able to abandon 100s of gallons of Jet A (avg price in Alaska $5.50/gal).  Since they fly all over the Arctic for many clients I&#8217;m sure that the various caches get used regularly, on their return trips if not fully laden they would be able to carry empty drums back with them.  My fuel supplier used to have a deposit on the drums so it was worth sending them back (except for the one we cut up to make a bbq grill!).<br />
The Russians set an excellent example for stewardship with their NP stations, when they are abandoned everything is taken back.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Leon Brozyna</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/05/04/question-for-catlin-arctic-survey-what-happens-to-the-fuel-drums/#comment-126900</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leon Brozyna]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 15:11:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=7569#comment-126900</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[BBC is reporting that the team has been resupplied.

And now the real spin begins.

Remember, at mission start they were to travel 1,000 km in 100 days. So, after 65 days they&#039;ve done all of just under 400 km. And now they won&#039;t even do 100 days ( the ice is melting, don&#039;t you know). With a start date of 28 Feb, 100 days would have meant they&#039;d be on the ice till 8 Jun. Now it&#039;s being spun that the mission was going to end at the end of May but will be cut short a week. Which gives them about another 20 days or so before being plucked off the ice.

Or, to use the Catlin technique - 

550 km in 85 days (okay, maybe 600 km in 85 days).

Not quite as thrilling sounding as 1,000 km in 100 days.

Now I wonder if the BBC will also breathlessly report on the state of the fuel caches?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BBC is reporting that the team has been resupplied.</p>
<p>And now the real spin begins.</p>
<p>Remember, at mission start they were to travel 1,000 km in 100 days. So, after 65 days they&#8217;ve done all of just under 400 km. And now they won&#8217;t even do 100 days ( the ice is melting, don&#8217;t you know). With a start date of 28 Feb, 100 days would have meant they&#8217;d be on the ice till 8 Jun. Now it&#8217;s being spun that the mission was going to end at the end of May but will be cut short a week. Which gives them about another 20 days or so before being plucked off the ice.</p>
<p>Or, to use the Catlin technique &#8211; </p>
<p>550 km in 85 days (okay, maybe 600 km in 85 days).</p>
<p>Not quite as thrilling sounding as 1,000 km in 100 days.</p>
<p>Now I wonder if the BBC will also breathlessly report on the state of the fuel caches?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Terry</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/05/04/question-for-catlin-arctic-survey-what-happens-to-the-fuel-drums/#comment-126881</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Terry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 14:35:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=7569#comment-126881</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ron: Are you by any chance an advisor to Dr. Chu?

In any case, thanks for the giggles!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron: Are you by any chance an advisor to Dr. Chu?</p>
<p>In any case, thanks for the giggles!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: adoucette</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/05/04/question-for-catlin-arctic-survey-what-happens-to-the-fuel-drums/#comment-126856</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[adoucette]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 13:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=7569#comment-126856</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ron,
So as not to engage in scaremongering, why don&#039;t you show the results of the calculations that show the magnitude of the impact and the timeframes you are talking about?.

At present rates that 55 hour day is nearly 4 million years from now, as we have added 25 leap seconds over 37 years. 

http://maia.usno.navy.mil/eo/leapsec.html

Arthur]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron,<br />
So as not to engage in scaremongering, why don&#8217;t you show the results of the calculations that show the magnitude of the impact and the timeframes you are talking about?.</p>
<p>At present rates that 55 hour day is nearly 4 million years from now, as we have added 25 leap seconds over 37 years. </p>
<p><a href="http://maia.usno.navy.mil/eo/leapsec.html" rel="nofollow">http://maia.usno.navy.mil/eo/leapsec.html</a></p>
<p>Arthur</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Daniel L. Taylor</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/05/04/question-for-catlin-arctic-survey-what-happens-to-the-fuel-drums/#comment-126853</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Daniel L. Taylor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 13:51:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=7569#comment-126853</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;It seems to be they are very much up against a ticking clock that is not in their favor. Each extra day they stay on the ice beyond the “safe” extraction date raises the chance of a very bad outcome for them or the extraction team.&lt;/i&gt;

Maybe I&#039;m just a cold hearted SoB, but in my opinion they need to freeze to death on that ice. The world needs to see the headline &quot;Global Warming scientists studying Arctic ice die from cold.&quot; The stark difference between AGW theory and reality needs to be painted in such bold, grim colors to snap people out of their slumber to stop this nonsense.

How much suffering has there already been due to the global economic collapse? Carbon regulation is going to cause an even greater contraction of the global economy than we just witnessed. How many people will die sooner due to the reduced living standards, the stress, the hardship? How many people will continue to live in poverty because doors of opportunity were shut? The last global depression led directly to World War II. How many people will die if stress between nations struggling for energy, wealth, and improved living conditions reaches the breaking point and the world goes back to war?

This is not a game people. The stakes are higher than anyone seems to realize. We are at a point in time where the human race desperately needs more energy, more wealth creation, higher technology, and higher standards of living. We need this for stability and peace. People with good jobs and homes aren&#039;t quick to fight and kill and create war. People with nothing will go to war at the slightest suggestion. And we are about to cap energy use and everything that depends on it, creating greater poverty and therefore greater violence.

I&#039;m sorry, but if the deaths of everyone on that ice survey team helps raise awareness of and opposition to the global warming political train wreck then so be it. It needs to happen.

James Hansen foolishly stands by coal trains and calls them death cars. Well the recent economic collapse has made me realize just how serious economic contraction can be. I call the cap and trade bill Death Legislation. And that&#039;s how we need to start presenting it. The average person doesn&#039;t think much of the potential damage from carbon cap and trade because they don&#039;t understand it in terms of lost jobs, lost homes, people on the street, and deaths directly caused by lack of energy. (A senior who can&#039;t afford A/C during a heat wave. A child whose parents can&#039;t afford natural gas to keep him warm during a severe illness.)

If I sound radical it&#039;s because I&#039;m heading that direction. &lt;i&gt;We cannot sustain further economic contraction in the globe. It will lead to very, very bad things.&lt;/i&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>It seems to be they are very much up against a ticking clock that is not in their favor. Each extra day they stay on the ice beyond the “safe” extraction date raises the chance of a very bad outcome for them or the extraction team.</i></p>
<p>Maybe I&#8217;m just a cold hearted SoB, but in my opinion they need to freeze to death on that ice. The world needs to see the headline &#8220;Global Warming scientists studying Arctic ice die from cold.&#8221; The stark difference between AGW theory and reality needs to be painted in such bold, grim colors to snap people out of their slumber to stop this nonsense.</p>
<p>How much suffering has there already been due to the global economic collapse? Carbon regulation is going to cause an even greater contraction of the global economy than we just witnessed. How many people will die sooner due to the reduced living standards, the stress, the hardship? How many people will continue to live in poverty because doors of opportunity were shut? The last global depression led directly to World War II. How many people will die if stress between nations struggling for energy, wealth, and improved living conditions reaches the breaking point and the world goes back to war?</p>
<p>This is not a game people. The stakes are higher than anyone seems to realize. We are at a point in time where the human race desperately needs more energy, more wealth creation, higher technology, and higher standards of living. We need this for stability and peace. People with good jobs and homes aren&#8217;t quick to fight and kill and create war. People with nothing will go to war at the slightest suggestion. And we are about to cap energy use and everything that depends on it, creating greater poverty and therefore greater violence.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry, but if the deaths of everyone on that ice survey team helps raise awareness of and opposition to the global warming political train wreck then so be it. It needs to happen.</p>
<p>James Hansen foolishly stands by coal trains and calls them death cars. Well the recent economic collapse has made me realize just how serious economic contraction can be. I call the cap and trade bill Death Legislation. And that&#8217;s how we need to start presenting it. The average person doesn&#8217;t think much of the potential damage from carbon cap and trade because they don&#8217;t understand it in terms of lost jobs, lost homes, people on the street, and deaths directly caused by lack of energy. (A senior who can&#8217;t afford A/C during a heat wave. A child whose parents can&#8217;t afford natural gas to keep him warm during a severe illness.)</p>
<p>If I sound radical it&#8217;s because I&#8217;m heading that direction. <i>We cannot sustain further economic contraction in the globe. It will lead to very, very bad things.</i></p>
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