Comments on: Antarctica’s Bipolar Disorder

By: C Colenaty

C Colenaty — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 23:09:02 +0000

I think Anthony willl be interested in this. While the well-publicized Catlan expedition has been underway at the Arctic. there has been a non-publicized Google (and Virgin) funded expedition going on in the Antarctic area –an attempt to circumnavigate the Antarctic continent by a Brit in a rowboat!
http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/2367225/Rower-determined-to-make-it-on-his-own

By: JThomas

JThomas — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 18:44:22 +0000

~snip~ [Ad-hom attack on this site and its readership, with no specifics. ~dbstealey, mod.]

By: C Colenaty

C Colenaty — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 09:19:34 +0000

There is apparently a pattern of both short-term (200-300 years) and long-term(1,500) years periodic warming of the West Anarctic Peninsula. Two studies supporting this notion are discussed in http://www.theresilientearth.com/?q=content/melting-antarctic-ice-part-natural-cycle.

By: Raff

Raff — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 03:39:17 +0000

In the article on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vostok,_Antarctica – it specifies that: Vostok in Antarctica is a place where “A lack of carbon dioxide in the air leads to irregularities in a person’s breathing mechanism.”

Why not send some of our politicians who want to label CO2 as poison and pollutant a few weeks to Vostok?

By: Smokey

Smokey — Sun, 26 Apr 2009 23:04:40 +0000

ccpo (06:42:54), You don't indicate who you are responding to, but if you think data isn't manipulated by the government, you are very mistaken: click1 click2 click3 click4 click5 click6 click7 So you see, the government is spoon feeding you data that has been tampered with. And the gov't resists releasing the unadjusted data. Anyone who still believes that CO2 = AGW at this point is suffering from cognitive dissonance.

By: Francis

Francis — Sun, 26 Apr 2009 18:32:04 +0000

slowtofollow(03:52:57)……….Adding-on would seem to be the appropriate correction for public theorizing. The only popular discussion of calving from floating ice shelves was:…..ENCYCLOPAEDIA BRITTANICA…..The ice behind the floating ice shelves, “moves seaward at…(().2-1.6miles) per year. The exposed seaward front of the ice shelf experiences stresses from subshelf currents, tides, and ocean swell in the summer and moving pack ice during the winter. Since the shelf normally possesses cracks and crevasses, it will eventually fracture to yield freely floating icebergs…Iceberg calving may be caused by ocean wave action, contact with other icebergs, or the behaviour of melting water on the upper surface of the berg.” Also, they’ve “been able to link the breaking stress occurring near the ice front to long storm-generated swells originating tens of thousands of kilometres away.” For Larsen B, the fractures are believed to be due to “frost wedging”, after meltwater filled crevasses…..FROM AN ABSTRACT…..(I’ve not been very successful at getting to page 2.) By the Amundsen Sea, “Warmer ocean waters are circulating beneath the (shelf) ice and melting their bases at a rate of 50 meters a year.”…PS…Another theory…In the age of Google…Informally, it will become acceptable to omit references when giving a (proper) quote???

By: Mike Bryant

Mike Bryant — Sun, 26 Apr 2009 15:05:51 +0000

I guess the computers are down at NSIDC.

http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/daily.html

By: Richard Sharpe

Richard Sharpe — Sun, 26 Apr 2009 14:37:57 +0000

The Arctic seems unwilling to cooperate. Could it be that cold AMO and PDO phases are introducing waters that are not so warm into the Arctic and thus delaying the melt?

By: JPK

JPK — Sun, 26 Apr 2009 14:07:15 +0000

Since the vast majority of the Antartic is one of the driest places on earth, a simple sampling of absolute humidty should indicate an increase of some kind in water vapor (assuming that AGW is occuring to the degree Mann, Steig et als say it is). I wonder if NOAA has archived polar orbiting satellite films which include the vapor channel (IR)? Otherwise, a sample of dry bulb and wet bulb temps could derive the needed info. Of course, what intrepid artic explorer is willing to that?

By: ccpo

ccpo — Sun, 26 Apr 2009 13:42:54 +0000

Quote
But after three more years of cooling, they changed the map to show a warming trend in 2007.
Endquote

so, they just changed it, eh? They didn’t use any measurements or anything? And you’re comfortable conflating trends (a period of years) with single-year measurements?

If the science behind ACC was as you like to pretend it is, you wouldn’t need to manipulate the date, nor your readers.

By: Ric Werme

Ric Werme — Sun, 26 Apr 2009 13:07:52 +0000

One image I’d like to see is an Antarctica map showing the typical number of “melting degree days” where each point is the sum of the degrees above freezing for the high temperature over the course of a year, or zero if the high does exceed freezing. This would help show how much of the continent (fifth largest? It’s third smallest) is not melting.

By: Pat

Pat — Sun, 26 Apr 2009 11:10:51 +0000

Once really has to question the reliability of information at URL’s that end in .gov.

By: slowtofollow

slowtofollow — Sun, 26 Apr 2009 10:52:27 +0000

Francis (21:34:44)

Hi Francis – thanks for responding. Good info. on sea ice formation and fracture is here:

http://www.coolantarctica.com/Antarctica%20fact%20file/antarctica%20environment/seaice%20formation.htm

There is also a paper I have seen which mentions elestic/plastic properties of ice shelves but I can’t find it right now. However my query is to find actual sea temp. data for the Southern Ocean from physical measures over the same time period as the satellite measures. As mentioned I’m wondering if the mechanism and process of sea ice formation and melt described in the link above will tend to give the satellite data, as processed for the top image on this thread, a warming trend. IMO it would be good to see if there is agreement to the physical measures.

I’m sure the data is out there and again I think I have seen a paper with relevant info. but have not saved a copy. If/when I refind I’ll post a link.

By: Mike Bryant

Mike Bryant — Sun, 26 Apr 2009 08:47:43 +0000

Am I the only one having trouble getting NSIDC website up?

By: pkatt

pkatt — Sun, 26 Apr 2009 08:42:36 +0000

oops screwed up my map link http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/~mstuding/tam_map_large.html