http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/glaciers-reveal-global-warming-effects-2523793/video

You can watch the Trev & Jim show and judge for yourself.

To the Honourable Mr Brill, even Franz Josef & Fox were retreating during those decades. Where messers Chin & Salinger fail the N.Z. public is not mentioning that glaciers in N.Z., and around the world, have been receeding since at least the 1880′s, some 70 years before the AGW proponents believe the influence of man took centre stage. Perhaps that sort of knowledge is a bit dangerous for Joe & Joesephine Public to have. It may lead to difficult questions that they freely admit they can’t answer, like what caused the glaciers to recede prior to AGW?

Our previous Prime Minister climbed Mt Kilamanjaro some time ago and shook her head at what “they” had done to cause the snows to disappear from that lofty mountain. This must be the same “they,” that Trev & Jim allude to in the news item. Perhaps Helen wasn’t informed by her experts that the snows of Kilamanjaro had been receeding since the 1880′s also, and not just since 1950.

“They, ” of course are “We!” We, the other people who continue to prosper from the efforts of our forebears in a way that those forebears would expect us to, as opposed to those who think that we should all feel guilty for the prosperity that we now enjoy. Those who think we should endure poverty, famine and deprivation in the name of saving the planet, all the while giving each other fatuous awards on our behalf. No thanks.

In the end Jim you failed as a scientist. You failed to show enough continuing scpticism ‘a good scientist’ would.

For those who asked, – there has never been any doubt that Jim Salinger was a convinced disciple of the AGW sect. And very proud of his Nobel Prize certificate.

I managed to record a news item from MSM TV on March 7th, 2009 regarding receeding glaciers in the Southern Alps. It featured an aging NZ glaciologist by the name of Trevor Chinn who had been photographically logging mountain glaciers in the Southern Alps for just over 30 years. After a period of time Mr Chinn came to the conclusion that photos taken at the end of the southern summer (presumably March 1st since glaciologists and meteorologists have been out of sync with astronomers for some time) show whether or not the glaciers are receeding or advancing if they are above or below a certain altitude. Having worked this out Mr Chinn could then make pronouncements upon the state of the climate, for the Southern Alps at least ( not that he said that). Flying around they were able to show us all the shocking sight of miniscule glaciers clinging to the tops of mountains. A map was provided that showed the locations of 50 monitored glaciers. Then the beaming, hawkish face of Dr Jim Salinger appeared to give added authority to the pronouncements of the spry Mr Chinn. Jim said, “We have to do the calculations, but maybe another Rangitoto’s worth in terms of ice volume loss (Rangitoto is a large shield vocanoe in the harbour just east of Auckland, N.Z.’s largest city). The reporter then made the announcement that, “It is estimated that 100 years ago there were 100 cubic kilometers of snow and ice in the Southern Alps, now we are down to less than half of that.” I didn’t realize that Richard Pearce’s plane could even get that high, if he flew at all, and his camera must have been state of the art too!

Dr Jim came onto say, ” We’ve only had about 1 degree ( C of warming) since 1900 and if we have had that amount of loss of ice mass, then another degree or two we are going to lose more.”

The final comments from Mr Chinn and someone else in the plane are telling. Mr Chinn states whilst viewing another glacier, “They’ve bloody well wrecked the glacier!” The other voice yells in confirmation over the noise of the engines, “They HAVE wrecked the glacier!!”

I’ll leave it up to you figure out who, “They,” are.

I checked out some of the glaciers positions from a good topo map. Most of the glaciers are on the eastern side of the main divide of the Southern Alps. The prevailing weather for N.Z. mainly comes from the west. The two glaciers that I was interested weren’t mentioned, namely Franz Josef and Fox on the west coast of the South Island. Both of these glaciers have been rapidly advancing since the mid 1980′s, when I made my first visit there. From what I can gather NIWA & others state that these two anomalies are the result of strong El Nino events (1982-83 and 1998 perhaps). It takes about 5 years for the rain that falls as snow at the top, or neve of these 2 glaciers to manifest itself in movement at the bottom, or terminal face. Mr Chinn mentioned the eastern glaciers moving up to 10 metres over a year. He failed to mention the rate of 100′s of m/year that FJ & Fox have been moving. I will be watching for some great movement of both of these glaciers in 4.5 years time based upon the huge rainfalls that South Westland received six months ago during our souuthern spring, at the end of a strong La Nina too BTW. From what I have read here elsewhere, glaciers like FJ & Fox, in narrow, steep valleys and very deep by nature are a better indicator of regional climate than the broader, thinner glaciers typical of the eastern side of the divide.

This small news item is a typical example of Dr Jim abusing his position as a govt. employee to help push the barrow of the AGW zealots like Trevor Chinn. If he was sacked because he thought he was above the law so to speak, then so be it. His little sound bite was not “good science.” Far from it. He did the people who pay his salary, the tax payers of New Zealand a great dis-service by telling only part of the story, and making pronouncements before, “the calculations had been done.” By implication Dr Jim was stating that all he had to do was to dot the i’s and cross the t’s and we could all go home. The good scientists are looking after us. No need for you lay people to worry your silly little heads. We’ve got it under control. In the meantime NIWA still can’t predict the ‘climate’ (i.e a bunch of weather situations) for the next three months accurately, again!

Cheers

Coops

Anthony, perhaps it is worthy of a thread in its own right.

The link is here again.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/Examiner-Opinion-Zone/Polish-Academy-of-Sciences-Questions-Gores-Man-Made-Global-Warming-Theory-43618922.html

Shane

You reference a 0.6 W/m^2 reduction of incoming energy, which sounds like about 1/500th the averaged incidence.

The story I have long been told is the answer to go with, and have recently seen repeated (in conjunction with the low activity of Cycle 24), is that variation on this scale is not significant, that it is too far down in the ‘grass’ of background noises that influence climate.

This becomes an issue, because people notice climate variations in the record which correspond with solar cycles. But the straight physics read says, ‘No, this should not do anything’.

Yet obviously, correlations with solar cycles remain. So, we see efforts to find a solar causation, by e.g. invoking changes in cosmic ray penetration through a charge-reduced upper atmosphere, creating more clouds at low level (just like the dry-ice cloud-chamber in high school physics). Could be, sounds nifty.

Lorentz is of course famous for using the analogy of a butterfly’s wings over the Pacific Ocean, creating or halting major weather systems. Is this what you are pointing to? If so, I think in the case of this particular putative ‘flutter’, we have not yet found the butterfly (which doesn’t mean one isn’t there..).

But everyone I see weigh in on it, says 0.6 W/m^2 etc won’t “drive” the observed effect. That’s only a small fraction of 1%, and the stern physics types say it will take something like a 2-4% solar variation (a good order of magnitude more), before we expect to see it even start to drive climate.

“The Democrats have a lot to learn about the right of free speech under the US Constitution. Congress Henry Waxman’s (D-CA) refusal to expose Al Gore’s sci-fi comedy-horror testimony to proper, independent scrutiny by the House minority reeks of naked fear,” Monckton said from the airport Thursday evening.

“Waxman knows there has been no ‘global warming’ for at least a decade. Waxman knows there has been seven and a half years’ global cooling. Waxman knows that, in the words of the UK High Court judge who condemned Gore’s mawkish movie as materially, seriously, serially inaccurate, ‘the Armageddon scenario that he depicts is not based on any scientific view,’” Monckton explained. Monckton has previously testified before the House Committee in March.”

Presumably, that was before former committee head Dingell was dispatched in a coup, in favor of the more radical Waxman.

The last thing AGWers want is a genuine debate.

‘“Personally I don’t care what he or Hanson have to say, they can shout it from the rooftops for all I care…” That is all very fine: my point is that denying the right to free expression to one group harms us all. The veneer of civilisation is rather thin at times.’

But the free expression of that one group in the scientific community which is critical of AGW is systematically and institutionally suppressed…..yesterday, today and tomorrow. THAT harms us all.

No one takes satisfaction in Dr. Salinger’s personal misfortune. Further, AGWers hardly lack free expression as a group. It is the prospect of a shift in the debate, that our voice is getting stronger, that is encouraging.

http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/realtime-images.html

Hello there, sorry no links!

Form the the day that the BBCs favoured candidate lost the BBC have ignored the NZ legitimate administration, check the BBC website for hisorical articles, they recently offered a platform to discuss SH AGW the only guests were the party that lost the election and the greens.
Check out BBC world and the website it will surprise you.