Is this an example of Jim Hansen’s endorsed “civil disobedience”?

cca-dc-protest-cap17
Dr. Jim Hansen gets ready to deliver his message at the Washington DC power plant protest on March 2nd 2009. On February 22nd, WUWT covered Hansen’s announcement that he was endorsing civil disobedience. Now one has to wonder; what hath Jim wrought? (h/t to timbrom)

From the Telegraph UK: More than 100 campaigners arrested over ‘power station plot’

More than 100 people are in custody after police smashed a major plot to sabotage one of Britain’s biggest power-stations.

Ratcliffe-on-Soar power-station, Nottinghamshire: More than 100 protestors arrested over Power Station Plot

Demonstrators gathered at night in readiness to move on Ratcliffe-on-Soar power-station, Nottinghamshire. Photo: PA

Officers swooped on environmental protesters as they prepared a mass raid that could have disrupted supplies to tens of thousands of homes.

The demonstrators are thought to have gathered at night in readiness to move on Ratcliffe-on-Soar power-station, Nottinghamshire.

They were rounded up shortly after midnight on Sunday at the Bakersfield Community Centre in Sneinton, Notts, by scores of officers.

Detectives later revealed they recovered specialist equipment that suggested the group represented a “serious threat” to the station’s safety.

Supt Mike Manley, of the Nottinghamshire force, said 114 men and women from across the UK were detained during the dramatic swoop.

They were being questioned on suspicion of conspiracy to commit aggravated trespass and criminal damage at Ratcliffe-on-Soar.

Supt Manley said: “In view of specialist equipment recovered by police, those arrested posed a serious threat to the safe running of the site.

“This was a significant operation, with large-scale arrests. There were no injuries during the arrests, and the police investigation is ongoing.”

Witnesses told how officers in more than 20 police vans descended on the plotters’ apparent rendezvous point in the early hours.

Tess Rearden, who lives near the scene, said: “We were woken up by the sound of doors slamming and saw all these police vans and riot vans.

“My son came out of his bedroom and said: ‘Have you seen what’s going on?’ They were all up and down the roads. It was bedlam – real bedlam.”

Another resident added: “I was leaving my house when I saw a line of traffic approaching me, which seemed strange for the time of night.

“It was only when the vehicles got closer and started to pass me that I noticed every single one was either a police car or a police van.

“I counted 20-plus vans, all one after the other, with police cars at the rear. Then they blocked off all the roads around the community centre.”

One resident told how the protesters did not fight with officers during the swoop but signalled their defiance as they were being led away.

She said: “The police jumped out of their vans and ran behind the community centre. The people they brought out were singing: ‘We’ll be back again.’”

It is thought detectives had prior knowledge of the plot but chose to wait till the demonstrators were together in one place before moving in.

Local city councillor David Mellen added: “I understand there was some kind of gathering of people here in connection with the power-station.

“If the police had information that there was a danger to the power supply in the East Midlands then obviously they had to take action.”

The Derbyshire and Leicestershire forces helped in the operation and later provided additional custody facilities for some of those arrested.

Ratcliffe-on-Soar has been the target of a number of protests in the past, including one two years ago in which protesters tried to shut down the plant.

Environmentalists who stormed the site on that occasion later failed in a landmark legal bid to prove they were acting in the interests of humanity.

Climate-change campaigners admitted they attempted to force the site’s closure by chaining themselves to conveyor belts and filtration systems.

But they argued that, because they were saving the planet from global warming, their actions were legal under the so-called “defence of necessity”.

Had they won their case they would have paved the way for campaigners around the country to stage similar protests without fear of prosecution.

At the time Eastside Climate Action, the group involved, said the break-in reflected “the threat climate change poses to the human population”.

A spokesman said: “We argue that the threat to human life is so serious that it is a proportionate and reasonable response to take direct action.”

Giving evidence at the court hearing, station manager Raymond Smith told how production at the site was threatened during the incident.

He said: “People chained themselves to the conveyor system and the filtration system. They were non-violent, but none had permission to be on the site.

“If the protest had continued to the extent that the power station ran out of coal we would have had to shut it down. But we called the police.”

Eastside denied any involvement in yesterday’s events – thought to be linked to plans for a new coal-fired power-station in Kingsthorpe, Kent.

E.on, the power giant behind Kingsthorpe, owns Ratcliffe-on-Soar – allegedly Britain’s second-largest producer of carbon-dioxide emissions.

An E.on spokesman said: “While we understand everyone has a right to protest peacefully and lawfully, this was clearly neither of those things.

“We will be assisting police in their investigations into what could have been a very dangerous attempt to disrupt an operational power-plant.”

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116 thoughts on “Is this an example of Jim Hansen’s endorsed “civil disobedience”?

  1. This kind of activity is the 21st century equivalent of the medieval church describing sex as dirty and immoral.

    Stupid idiotic rubbish in other words………

  2. Climate change is like the sunrise, it’s natural and you can’t stop it.

    The very term “climate change”, as used by the Global Warming Alarmists and Profiteers is idiotic. The term implies the climate would be stable without human factors. This ignorance knows no bounds.

    The climate changes all the time. The climate is supposed to change. The climate is always going to change. Get over it.

  3. A stylized black and white image of James Hansen will no doubt soon be replacing posters and t-shirts of Che Guevara in leftist haunts worldwide.
    Mike Bryant

    PS… any artists in the crowd?

  4. One wonders what the protesters have in their own homes. What do they run their kettles on, or use to make toast? I imagine the average candle produces a lot more CO2 than the generation of power to produce a similar amount of electric light!

  5. Civil disobedience presupposes your going to do something serious enough to get arrested for. For Hansen to endorse civil disobedience implies he is encouraging people to break the law.

  6. These environmental activists have been brain-washed by governments, by the education system, by environmental organisations and the media. It’s a sorry state that we have got into. Thoughtless idiots.

  7. Occasionally I am almost ashamed to be British. This is one of those occasions.
    Somebody with some clout has really got to call these people out before the old and the poor (who are as always the ones who get it in the neck) can no longer afford to heat and light their homes. Which I suppose is a fairly irrelevant argument since if these brainless Luddites have their way we’ll all be sitting in the dark and the cold and pretty soon I fear.

  8. How great would it be if the British could prove that Hansen was a co-conspirator in this plot and charge him? Yeah that would definitely be sweet!

  9. Worst of all is that a few people self-righteously think they can claim the right to ignore and break whatever democratic rules and processes they want to for the purposes of forcing their own will upon others.
    What a mess.

  10. “Hansen should be fired.”

    Tim, you made a spelling error. It is spelled “fried”. I think you transposed the “r” and the “i”.

  11. There’s a difference between protest of governmental policy and inciting to riot — a distinction not always made when emotions take control. Laws rightly protect the former and condemn the latter. One has to admire Henry David Thoreau who many years ago went to jail after refusing to pay a tax as a protest against the Mexican-American War. He took personal responsibility for his actions and didn’t just advocate a position.

  12. Rogers sasy: ‘A few nights in a cell with no heating or light might teach them something useful.’

    When George Bush tried this with a couple murderous monsters it was called torture by the same people pushing AGW. Of course the AGW crowd wants to ‘torture’ all of us.

  13. The UK Government has done nothing to quell climate change hysteria. There are constant press releases stating that we must reduce carbon emissions by 80% by 2050 if we are to avoid climate catastrophe. Unless you have a reasonable science education and have spent a lot of time looking at data of various sorts (like this website) then you are likely to believe the Government line ie that we have a problem caused by burning fossil fuels. Many people now genuinely believe this, because they have been fed a constant diet of warming propaganda. Therefore it is totally logical to them that we should shut down coal burning power stations and it is totally illogical for the Government to arrest people who are trying to save the planet as they see it. THe Government is seen as hypocritical and only has itself to blame. It could have encouraged a more balanced line on climate change and could have encouraged debate from both sides. It has sown the wind (turbines) so now it can reap the whirlwind.

  14. I believe you are referring to settled debate that it is copyright piracy that causes global warming H.R.?

  15. The plant I am currently working on to start-up in July ’09 in Texas is a coal fired power plant capable of supplying 580 MW of power to central texas. Just the other day an email went around telling us to beware of protestors that might be staged at the gates. I really hope it doesnt come to that but It would also not surprise me. I guess thats what happens when the most influential outlets get taken over by extremists.

    H.R.

    I agree…pirates do cause global warming,it is an Inverse relationship

    http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/

    :)

  16. because they were saving the planet from global warming, their actions were legal under the so-called “defence of necessity”.

    Also known as the Zeroth Law (see Asimov)

    Rhys Jaggar (08:21:55) :

    equivalent of the medieval church describing sex as dirty and immoral

    Um… isn’t it? Maybe you’re just not doing it right… ;)

    There’s no way to comment on this seriously… we are watching the beginning of a trend that will increase. Heinlein had a lot of Future History right, but the REAL crazy years are just beginning.

  17. To a certain extent it is a pity they didn’t succeeded. If they would have disrupted power supply to many people with grave effects to individuals, the public would eventually get furious on this kind of civil disobedience and might give an important signal to governments. Organisations like Greenpeace, WWF and other vocal organisations would have a lot to explain to the general public and might loose their credibility. Of course I don’t underestimated the individual consequences; if you are being effected by disrupted power supply you have a severe problem and probably you will not be happy.

    Secondly, I might give the public the possibility to initiate litigation against these individuals and give another signal; civil disobedience does have a price tag.

  18. Actually, H.R., I believe it is the lack of pirates which causes global warming. Conclusive proof is seen in the recent falling-off of global temperatures, which has occurred AT THE VERY SAME TIME AS pirates have been getting back to work off the coast of Somalia.

    See? Climatology is easy!

  19. Would be nice if they shut off all electricty in their jail cells.

    I was thinking about power disruption to hospitals being a pretty nasty side effect.

    Ironically, both hospitals and prisons have backup generators which burn diesel.

  20. Have no fear, Jimmy-on-the-spot will be there to help defend these mindless climate terrorists. Apologies in advance to you Brits. Can’t you find something to arrest him for while there? You’d be doing us a big favor.

  21. How many of those protesters and potential saboteurs had “degrees in climatology” — so they could know by their own studies the truth or falsity of AGW?

    Seems the pro-AGW clan decries “skeptics” without PhDs in Climatology — but welcomes “clueless” and “misguided” protesters into their ranks. Hansen, in fact, exhorts and glorifies them.

  22. What kind of place is this English “community center” at which people can stay overnight? If it were an American city park facility, the police would have arrived hours earlier when people didn’t leave at closing time.

  23. Hmmm. Nothing in the news about this. A possible terror plot involving hundreds to disrupt power to Britain. Would this be different if they were Muslims instead of AGWers? Hopefully this won’t be snipped, because it is a valid point. If they would have been Muslims, headlines would be shouting about the disruption of a possible terror threat, but since they are just ‘fighting the good fight’, not a peep.

  24. Oddly enough I can see this power plant from my home, and whilst this event took place we had three power cuts the last of which lasted several hours.

    Could be coincidence?

    Doubtful, though still breaking news.

    If people want to attack the infrastructure of our country they could by law be treated as any other terrorist organisation that puts lives at risk.

    Could Hansen be guilty of incitement?

    Under our, UK laws, I suspect he could, though I doubt we have the political will to do this.

  25. Rhys Jaggar (08:21:55) :

    This kind of activity is the 21st century equivalent of the medieval church describing sex as dirty and immoral.

    Stupid idiotic rubbish in other words………

    Agree with the sentiment. Hoever, I think Medieval Witch Hunts is the more accurate analogy, since it has the connotation of unthinking superstition.

  26. I’m sorry, but I see this as eco-terrorism and they should be treated as such. Any attack on an economic infrastructure with the intention of shutting it down and causing distress to the public is terrorism. Lock ‘em up and throw away the key.

  27. Wilson Flood (09:24:51) :
    The UK Government has done nothing to quell climate change hysteria.

    You are right, but the government is in a cleft stick, because as you say, they themselves are promoting the issue. Why do you think there was no attempt at a scientific defence against Hansen and the vandalism at Kingsnorth. By not building a heavy prosecution in that case, the government have allowed a precedent to be set. And have they tried to appeal that decision as you would expect? Have they …..! They were so short sighted that they could only see that they would be contradicting their own warming credentials, if they fought that vandalism as they should. Not appreciating the problems that losing that case would bring in the longer term.

    It makes the case for bringing a balanced view of how climate changes to our representatives the more urgent. Just wish I could find a way how. I have battled the BBC’s bias up to the BBC Trust, but I’m not expecting much from there.

    Incidentally, slightly OT, UK readers, don’t you think it is strange that you cannot appeal possible BBC bias to Ofcom; It’s all in house?

  28. Last week I heard on the BBC radio news an item which included interviews with young school-children about what they were learning. I heard with deep dismay one little girl, aged 7 or 8 regurgitating the AGW mantra of how she was going to save polar bears by switching off lights, the TV and video etc. etc.
    Her teacher then came on and lauded the girl for having paid attention in class and having learned matters of great importance.
    Elsewhere in the world this brainwashing of children would be illegal. Here in the UK it is mandated by the Government.
    It’s this official teaching of blatant propaganda which inspires idiots such as those wanting to raid the Radcliffe-on-Soar power station.

  29. Jack Green (10:25:49) :

    Has anybody ever read Hansen’s bio? I was shocked to read:

    The hardest part is trying to influence the nature of the measurements obtained, so that the key information can be obtained.

    We have been through this before. I think the consensus :) was that he was talking of what to include on the pay load of the satellites. Badly expressed english .

  30. Shawn F., Power Engineer, Mrs. Whatsit, et al:

    Look, ya’ll. I KNOW pirates cause glabal warming in spite of what the data says. The sciance is settled. The debate is over. The Pirates vs. CO2 graph looks suspiciously like a hockey stick, hmmm…?

    Besides, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is taking names in preparation for the final reckoning (LOL! Power Engineer. Thanks!).

    Oh. I am NOT in the pay of or a shill for Big Pirates.

    Aaarghhh!!!!

    H.R.

  31. This situation reminders of certain professors that protested the Vietnam war. They would agitate a bunch of students and naive young faculty members who would chain themselves to the recruiters offices and got arrested while the instigators was catching it all on TV from the comfort of their homes.
    Maybe Hansen will get himself arrested but I think not.

    For the protesters, let them do some hard physical labor, put them on a chaingang and clean up the woods and forests using no power tools. They might come to appreciate the comforts of modern life provided by fossil fuels.

  32. Guys…these are the useful idiots the government rely on to push through the nuclear agenda. As a brit, its as plain as the nose on your face that both main political parties (I exclude the Lib-Dems here as they are just la-la land silly on this issue) don’t believe a word of the AGW theory, but it suits the political necessity of our time. For you ‘off islanders’ out there who don’t get how anti nuclear this country has been, you maybe will not quite understand how this “CO2 is bad” stuff is manna from heaven to our country, a country which is facing a massive energy deficit in the next few years. Both parties when in government have sat on their hands and not faced up to the issue of what to do when our north sea oil & gas runs out…well its happening now. So you hear lots of stuff about how clever the French have been to produce 80% of their electricity from nuclear, and how we should copy them “now that nuclear is safe”…
    So anti carbon is encouraged, these guys are useful tools. For the first time in years a majority of the british public are saying 2yeah build nuclear power stations like the French did”. So they will be sheparded into keeping the the propaganda going, whilst making sure they do no real serious damage to ongoing power. And they are blissfully unaware they are being played, bunch of idiots.
    Sad to say though, if I were in government (come the glorious day…) faced with our energy problems and need to go nuclear I would prob do the same.

  33. Mrs Whatsit (09:38:48) :

    Actually, H.R., I believe it is the lack of pirates which causes global warming. Conclusive proof is seen in the recent falling-off of global temperatures, which has occurred AT THE VERY SAME TIME AS pirates have been getting back to work off the coast of Somalia.

    See? Climatology is easy!

    Indeed… :)

  34. Specialist equipment? Bombs? If Ratcliffe-on-Soar had have been knocked out the National Grid would have been in the unenviable position of either entirely isolating Notts/Leics/Derbyshire from the rest of the grid or dropping most of the country onto low power with possible brownouts. I am unsure whether there is sufficient reserve power generation capacity to compensate for the loss of this particularly big station. I know one thing – the food company I work for has no in-house power generator for its admin side, and the computers would be down and stay that way. Still, it’s nothing important which we would be unable to deliver.

    If I was the judge at the trial of these protesters, any found guilty would be fined, given a restraining order preventing them within 100m of any power production facility and placed under house arrest, with their electricity and gas supplies turned off for a month.

    As for the Ofcom comment, it is much like the government itself – even if they get caught out being less than honest they ignore any protest and carry on as before. Government culpability seems to be a thing of the past in Britain, you only have to look at Whack-a-Mole-Mandelson to see that.

  35. I wish I knew what to think of Hansen – true believer, useful idiot or cabal member? OK, he could be gauged as being all three, but in what proportions? Most old fossils in academe can’t stand to see their life work get upturned and revised some more.

    How susceptible are academics to flattery and pressure from politicos with other interests? Considering how Gore made certain to narrow the RFP channels to AGW topics is the academic community immune? Publish or perish …

  36. With our stupid government’s climate change bill that stupidly mandates the UK to reduce CO2 emissions by 80% by 2050, and Hansen coming over here to urge civil disobedience what can we expect? These people are nothing more than terrorists who, as Sam the Sceptic has said, care nothing for the old an poor being deprived of warmth and light.

    Most are misguided and know nothing of the scientific debate surrounding the subject of AGW but have been told that Hansen is a brilliant scientist and if he says we are all doomed due to coal fired power stations then we must be. The science is settled

    Frankly the man is incredibly dangerous because all our politicians half believe him and give him a high degree of respectability. They have now reached the stage where they dare not say that he is speaking garbage so we have to expect more of this terrorism.

    Please all you US citizens demand Hansen’s dismissal. After all you pay his salary.

  37. This is for Mike Bryant (not read all comments…maybe someone did this already..) Comments welcome RE: captions or whatever.

  38. Sam the Skeptic (08:55:12) :

    Occasionally I am almost ashamed to be British. This is one of those occasions.

    Sam, no need to be ashamed: stupidity knows no national boundary, after all, Hansen is a product of the USA, and has cohorts from around the world, sorry to say.

  39. To any government of the world it has become quite difficult if not impossible to oppose the Green Religion because if they do they are inmediately accused of anything. The NGOs behind have hacked any moves. But whenever there is not any way out the only posiible outcome is violence. Perhaps there is a kind of tanathophylia behind these guys eager to become martyrs.
    I would suggest the NGOs not to press the issue too much, more than it is needed to reach their objectives, like selling “carbon credits”,etc., because if they do we will face a third world war.

  40. Hansen is an international eco-terrorist since he called for civil disobedience. He needs to be arrested and/or put on the no-fly list (after all, flying is far worse than driving a car, bus or train). If he were outside the government, he’d probably have been arrested already. An arrest would go a long way to paint the true picture of his kind – a hollier-than-thou quack.

  41. Most are misguided and know nothing of the scientific debate surrounding the subject of AGW

    Actually they do. They’re the ones who go around on the forums calling rational folk deniers, calling businessmen climate criminals, sending hatemail and threats to laboratories, etc.

    They’re a mixed bunch of Marxists and students with an authoritarian streak to their personalities. That’s what is forgotten so often. People tend to forget in all debate that we are not all the same. We are different. You can’t convince a person with an authoritarian character set to be a rational free thinker if what drives them is authoritarian politics. Green language has been co-opted by them to achieve a moral and economic victory over their perceived enemies.

    The enemies are of course businesses and industries that need to be shut down so that the financiers of these protests can take advantage of the vacuum that is left. If someone is financing wind turbine construction or has a solar panel business then why not fund activists and students who want to shut down coal plants? That’s the power shift that is going on. Businessmen using pawns against other businessmen. The pawns are paid and think they will profit in the long run politically and financially.

    So please don’t call them misguided. They are no more misguided than [snip]

    Reply: While I personally wholeheartedly agree with that snipped simile, that is a can of worms I will not allow to be opened on this site. So…my apologies for the deletion. ~ charles the moderator

  42. How do these people power their homes?

    I’ve always wanted to attend one of these demonstrations and bring along a huge bin marked for “Donations”. I’d setup a table at the entrance. Protesters would be encouraged to deposit their cell phones, PDAs, MP3 players and all other portable electronics on their person before participating.

    Then I’d have a sign-up sheet so I could come by their homes and remove all TVs, radios, dishwashers, washing machines, consumer electronics and air conditioners.

  43. Hansen will fly in, defend them in court, and they will be given the comfy chair (oh no, not the comfy chair) and there will be more of this type of action to follow. Do terrorists actually sway anyone to their viewpoint by doing harm? Does someone have to die before this nonsense is prosecuted as a criminal act? Their rationalization for destructive behavior is unbelievable. The end DOES NOT justify the means.

  44. mikef (10:59:18) :
    you maybe will not quite understand how this “CO2 is bad” stuff is manna from heaven to our country, a country which is facing a massive energy deficit in the next few years……. ………..So anti carbon is encouraged, these guys are useful tools. For the first time in years a majority of the british public are saying 2yeah build nuclear power stations like the French did”.

    Only problem is maintaining enough power, particularly in the face of the likely increased (probably vandalistic) demonstrations, during the many years before new nuclear comes on stream. While the public may be becoming more keen on nuclear many alarmists will be doing their best to disrupt progress on that front.

    As someone said earlier, many of them want us back, effectively, in the dark ages.

  45. Methinks our elected politico’s are not quite the fools we think they are sometimes, they take advice from all quarters lest they be led into doing something that will stop them getting elected next time around…
    So….’CO2 Bad’ is allowing them to tax us a bit more, bit annoying, but c’set la vie. Where it becomes awkward is when companys have to add it as a cost, no problem if they are trading internally as they add it on and its just an inflationary thing, bad if the trade externaly. And this is where it gets clever – our politico’s want to tax imports to compensate – ie if China/India do not implement our ‘highest standards of CO2 angst’ then we tax their imports, so ‘theoreticaly’ protecting our own industry. Its all a circle of taxation, and the UN can play banker in the middle.
    Personally I think its a load of twaddle but it is indeed all about money. The actual facts of AGW are irrelevant.
    What will happen when the AGW boys realise they have been suckered by politics and big commerce I do not know, but my guess is that as they are a tiny fraction of peeps, and once the MSM has been diverted away, they will just wither on the vine.
    Maybe I’m too cynical…..

  46. Any “denier” lawyers out there?
    A provision in a House Bill allows for lawsuits over Global Warming.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/10/report-climate-provision-allow-global-warming-victims-sue/

    If the drafters of the provision had the usual AGW blinders on, they probably didn’t contemplate the possible use of this provision to, say, sue over Cap-And-Trade when the scientific evidence shows COOLING.

    If this bill passes, I wonder what a Federal District jury in say the Eastern District of Texas would make of a case like that??

  47. OT:

    My vote for next week’s quote:

    Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius (AD 121-180) “The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.”

  48. Why would somebody chain them self to a conveyor belt? The risk of life or limb comes to mind because if somebody turned it on…

  49. I can understand Gore and the head of the IPCC not having a clue. They’re not technical. Hansen is another matter. He is (supposedly) a scientist. Has to have some physics and math background. How can he ignore the non-linear aspect of absorption? Or not know that CO2 is at or near saturation? Or all the siting problems the surfacestations project has documented?

    This blog has touched several times on mistaking malice for stupidity. (Hanlon, or more properly Heinlein). With Gore, the answer is obviously the latter. With JH, I fear the former. And that worries me.

    It’s not like we don’t have any other problems to worry about.

    (I think taking away the protestors cell-phones and iPods would be enough. That might violate the Geneva Convention :)

  50. Retired Engineer (12:39:52) :

    He is (supposedly) a scientist. Has to have some physics and math background.

    He is a physicist, actually.

    As for the rest: cognitive dissonance.

    Mark

  51. I just moved away from the UK after six years there. I ended up in SF, with Nancy Pelosi as my representative. I’m a progressive liberal (don’t groan–I know Heinlein’s work better than you do ;)) and I’m completely skeptical about the catastrophic claims regarding global warming.

    This is not a right vs. left issue–it just looks that way because of the idiots who are promoting it. (I’m not speaking of Hansen, who I don’t really think is as bad or insane as he’s portrayed–I think he’s backed himself into a corner…) I do wonder if Al Gore and Gordon Brown have ever been seen in the same room at the same time, but I wonder the same about Russell Brand and Captain Jack Sparrow (just to keep the pirate meme running).

    I’m a global warming skeptic. These protesters should cool their heels for a few days in the clink. Jim Hansen should be sent home post-haste. But I also agree with Obama’s energy plan–and so would a lot of Republicans if it were presented by a Republican with the label ‘preserving energy independence.’ As noted on Climate Science, we are affecting the climate–just not in the ways that AGWers think.

    Come tell me I’m wrong–or right… http://newsfan.typepad.co.uk/liberals_can_be_skeptics_/

  52. I think their strategy of targeting power plants on a mass scale is not working. The protesters need to switch to targeting end users like Hospitals, nursing homes and the homes of elderly people. There would be no need for mass meet ups since they could all start locally with their own parents and grandparents houses and local hospitals.

  53. James Hansen had a counterpart that was active during Roman warm period, who held meetings to warn people that the earth was going to Hades in handbasket. His name was Nefarious Purpose, ….. ;^)

  54. @hareynolds (12:21:38) :

    “Any “denier” lawyers out there?
    A provision in a House Bill allows for lawsuits over Global Warming.”

    Yes, I am a climate change attorney.

    This is not yet law, just a bill at this point and subject to revision, therefore we must wait to see the final form that is signed into law.

  55. David Ball (13:50:01) :

    James Hansen had a counterpart that was active during Roman warm period, who held meetings to warn people that the earth was going to Hades in handbasket. His name was Nefarious Purpose, ….. ;^)

    More like Sillius Soddus.

  56. Do their intentions not fall under the UK terrorism act? As an ex-pat from the UK and so conversant with British practices, I am sure they will all be released and told not to be naughty boys and girls again. What would their punishment be -if found guilty- in countries such as Iran or China?

  57. ..I could also add that certain (right wing?) peeps are happy to go along with AGW because it suits the middle east scenario (…ie don’t buy the oil, so they can’t afford aK47s…)
    ???

  58. These people are not Environmentalists, nor are they Climate Change campaigners. These people are terrorists, they should be labled in media, blog’s and history as terrorists and should be prosecuted using UK terror laws. These people are trying to deny my right, my children’s right and my Grand children’s right to live.

    Just my 2 pennies worth.

  59. I completely agree with Kath; they are eco-terrorists and they need to be tried and punished to the full extent of the law. I hope it is many, many years in prison. This is serious stuff to interfere with the life-blood/energy of a society. In addition, Anna V has alerted us to what might become a new necessity in developed countries — home schooling our children (an excellent job for many grandparents, aunts and uncles) or, at the very least, careful investigation of the school curriculum from preschool to high school. (Well before he was even running for President Obama was featured in Wisconsin 8th grade literature texts as a “writer”.)

    Colleges and universities, well, what can one say. Since they can contribute big time to political campaigns (which thoroughly shocked me — and a large amount went to the non-natural born citizen), one can see that contributions probably bring big grants. Getting an actual education today, as we used to know it, is no easy matter. I think we need a rating system of various departments in univeristies, something like U.S. News and World Report, but on the validity of the degree from each institution. I wonder if the scientists in the variety of fields represented on WUWT have misgivinings about their alma maters or current institutions.

  60. Would it be possible to indict Hansen as the “mastermind’ of this plot?

    Just letting my imagination run wild here………….

  61. The formal U.S. Gov. rules that pertain to Dr. James Hansen’s extracurricular activities are soft-core version of the rules that restrict the civilian activities of military personnel. I’ve seen the regs that apply to Hansen posted online, and they were very familiar, though not as stern and lacking some of the dire outcomes, as military edicts.

    Basically, it’s simple: He can’t do whatever it is he wants to do, as a NASA figure. He can’t engage in activism, from behind the desk of his NASA position. He can’t use any of the facilities of his employment.

    Otherwise, he’s free to … reel out all the rope he’s comfortable with. On the one hand, we use the rope analogy for very good historical reasons, but OTOH, he’s got at least 20 years experience with his ropes.

    If there is the slightest actual connection between Hansen and this affair at Ratcliffe, then he’s the raccoon with a 60 second lead on the hounds. Goners.

    If there is no real linkage, then he’s not only bullet-proof, but is free to take up discussion of the Ratcliffe conspiracy and spin it to his own preferences. With impunity. He very well may.

    Civil disobedience and sabotage are two different things. Henry David Thoreau exercised civil disobedience by not paying taxes (to withhold support for the Mexican War), but he didn’t back up his political position by launching physical attacks against infrastructure, etc.

    Thoreau could not sneak into the Army stockade and pour sand into the wheel bearings of the Cavalry wagons, then plead “civil disobedience”. No dice, fella.

    Earth First! materially advanced the interests & position of conservatives (and Conservationists, in opposition to Preservationists) by virtue of the highly polarizing nature of their actions. The Ratcliffe conspiracy falls into the same category. This kind of activity will generate backlash reactions that will erode the base of their own movement, and will promote & aid the positions of those who oppose them.

    If anti-Industrialism, anti-Capitalism activism (which I see as the reality behind AGW etc.) ramps it up to “the next step” here in the USA, Ratcliffe-style, they will greatly simplify the goals of those who oppose them. Their actions will devastate their own movement.

    I have not seen indications that Dr. Hansen has embraced this level of foolishness … but it wouldn’t be impossible.

  62. There are a lot of people that are able to stay in their homes thanks to medical equipment that in my youth would have been in a nursing facility or hospital. Unfortunately, this equipment uses electricity. I’m not sure if the people attempting to cut the power do not know, or just do not care.

  63. I don’t believe that it was what Hansen intended but it would not be surprising that his views would lead to such action.

  64. I suspect that most, if not all, of these activists comprise passionate but scientifically-illiterate “greens”… Much like the group that signed the petition that “Penn and Teller” had touted round a “Green” gathering demanding that the “dangerous and potentially lethal chemical, Di-Hydrogen Monoxide” should be banned.

  65. mikef (15:05:40) :

    ..I could also add that certain (right wing?) peeps are happy to go along with AGW because it suits the middle east scenario (…ie don’t buy the oil, so they can’t afford aK47s…)
    ???

    Huh? What?

    What kind of nutjob conspiracy is this?

  66. This could be just the beginnning. Hansen has inspired and encouraged acts above and beyond civil disobedience. The raid uncovered what I would suspect are tools of destruction. Yesterday’s eco-zealot may be tomorrow’s eco-terrorist. All one needs is a religious fervor strong enough to dull good senses.
    Why should NASA put up with this?
    Neither should the Brits.
    Issue a warrant.

  67. “SwampWoman (16:30:40) :
    There are a lot of people that are able to stay in their homes thanks to medical equipment that in my youth would have been in a nursing facility or hospital. Unfortunately, this equipment uses electricity. I’m not sure if the people attempting to cut the power do not know, or just do not care.”

    I think that much of this type of activism is not really thought all the way through. If informed that their actions might kill people perhaps some part of their number might feel enough shame to turn away from these crimes.

  68. sylvain (16:33:34) :

    I don’t believe that it was what Hansen intended but it would not be surprising that his views would lead to such action.

    He’s responsible, and after the comments he made over the US has to shut down all of it’s coal plants, he’s gone over the line. His words were not thought through, and it’s led to inciting.
    Again, he’s responsible.

  69. If they get sent to prison, ask if they want the power on or not. If they do they should be labelled hipocrites and if they don’t, they sit in the dark and suffer whatever weather come without heating or cooling, their food should also be cold.

    G

  70. Jim is a Seriously Dedicated Scientist who studies the climate. Surely any connection with Weathermen and their goals is mere coincidence. It’s sad really but Jim’s plunge off the deep end may be just what’s needed to bring others to their senses. Something akin to that peculiar weather phenomenon involving the interior of clouds.

  71. They look pretty silly to most of us, but how in heaven will it take for them to look silly to them????

  72. DAV,
    I’m getting some serious flashbacks. The SDS, the Weathermen and the SLA… even Patty Hearst came back to reality after a time.
    I think Mark Rudd, David Gilbert and Bernardine Dohrn are partners in a pizza place/beer joint in Poughkeepsie. Of course they could be on welfare for all I know.
    They were ahead of their time. They would fit in quite well in present day D. C.
    Before the end of the year they may be ambassadors to China, Russia and India.

  73. A seriously dedicated scientist should know better than that. He has been around movements long enough to know what happens when you stand up on a soapbox in front of activists and start telling them to be civilly disobedient.
    Even in the best of crowds, there are always a few who are more than willing to rip it up, just add vitriol and stir.
    Compromise a power plant and you just might have more than simple property damage. It could turn deadly.
    Most regrettable consequences might ensue.

  74. It is unfortunate (and I saw my snipped comments above…LOL….me and my temper!) Sorry about that…I was just echoing an earlier post from Bateman that WAS published Robert Bateman (16:56:09) that said “Issue a Warrant” :)

    But I hear ya….I get a little irascible….but my irasciblitiy does not suppress the truth.

    It is unfortunate that a public official [whose paycheck is gleaned from the taxpayer] can participate in such events without consequence.

    It really is a bizarre twist in science [and where science melts down into political slag] to see these phenomena occuring today.

    May the truth win out! Thanks for your efforts here on WUWT.

    Chris
    Norfolk, VA, USA

  75. Power cuts here in BC caused by serious activist led disruption to the power grid would result in the deaths of many who receive at home nursing and rely on a reliable electricity supply to keep their ventilation aids (Nebulisers etc) functioning, despite serious battery backup.

    I understand that such home installed life sustaining equipment is not quite so common in the UK, but to my certain knowledge it is still fairly widespread. Should the power to some homes fail for too long as a result of Hansen advocated ‘activism’, there would inevitably be fatalities because not enough of those receiving such home care could be admitted to a hospital with functioning electricity in time. I truly hope the ‘activists’ appreciate this, but perhaps they don’t really care about anything but their own narrow minded agenda.

  76. It’s time to start dropping the “Dr.” title from Mr. Hansen.
    [snip]
    Chris
    Freezing in Chicago on 4/13/09

  77. Ref Codetech…
    Am surprised you say that, as its quite common knowledge on the political blogs that there is the ‘unholy alliance’ on this issue. Suggest you read the views of some of your more upfront US citizens regarding the USA oil dependance.
    Am just pointing it out. As a liberal, I don’t agree with the policy, but its a POV that exists, whether you think its a ‘nutjob conspiracy’ or not. Instapundit for example has run several articles by peeps with that view.

  78. I was worried about these escalations to violence coming because a lot of these nutcases are the same people who were rioting over globalization. It doesn’t take much to incite them to violence: They don’t need a coherent argument, just the flimsiest of excuses. The last thing we needed was for a prominent scientist to start encouraging them.

  79. Actually, Mexican drug cartels AND pirates cause Global Warming. The drugs for Europe pass through Africa on their way from Central/South America.

    If you took all the illicit drugs away from these eco terrorist types, away from all university students worldwide, their rational thinking capacity wouldn’t be so easily damaged.

    Yup, lock em all up in cold dark cells and feed them raw chickpeas and kale with dirty river water. After they sober up from lack of drugs, maybe they can be reeducated. Have them serve meals on wheels to some of the oxygen dependent old folks, babies at home on breathing monitors and nebulizers, afflicted bedridden people of all kinds.

    I almost wish they had succeeded to force the media and the public to experience the actual consequences. Let’s hope this threat will be enough.

    My guess is that Hansen is still just a Boulder druggie, eternal teenager.

  80. Now, if only you revolting colonials didn’t break away from Britain back in 1776 ;-))

    Let’s do a deal, we don’t want JH over here, you don’t want him over there, so why not set him adrift mid-Atlantic! Fair deal? I have an old bath tub in the shed I could bung up the overflow & fit a plug so at least it would float.

    I say it again, I fear that we in the UK are one step away from some body being killed, most likely an innocent bystander sadly. As long as it isn’t one of their number so they end up a Climate Change martyr. Perhaps this may just be the defining moment & a real debate could be started up as a counter to all the AGW hype & nonsense. Some hope!

  81. These young folk are to blame for threatening violent disruption; but far more blameworthy are surely those who knowingly peddle the junk information on which their actions are based; or those who fail to check the lies. Do you want to arraign the junkies or the traders and seducers? I think the media and the scientific establishments are also guilty, the media of amoral incitement and academia of not speaking out over vital information, namely the harmless usefulness of CO2. You’d have thought that even the priesthood should remember their school science.

    Pass on the word, read my Primer (under my name) – the other side of the UK! Every day I wake up thinking about this – raising respect for Truth through real research… Ah, I’m going to try once again to get Scientists for Global Responsibility onto the case.

  82. In the U.S., the key to arresting people such as were arrested in the U.K. is whether they are likely to engage in imminent lawless action. This is similar to when police can arrest would-be criminals before they commit a crime such as burglary. An attempted burglary is also a crime and police may make the arrest before the burglary itself is committed. From the news reports, the British police found implements of destruction, and thus were justified in making the arrests.

    As to arresting Hansen or others who advocate damaging power plants, the key again is balancing free speech rights against the likelihood of imminent lawless action. If the speaker is merely speaking, and there is no likelihood of anyone grabbing implements of destruction and running to vandalize a power plant, then the speaker is exercising his right to free speech.

    From the U.S. Supreme Court decision in Brandenburg v Ohio, “the constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not permit a State to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of force or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action.”

    The Brandenburg case is pretty interesting, given the similarities to today’s AGW activities. It may be found here:

    http://supreme.justia.com/us/395/444/case.html

  83. Occasionally I am almost ashamed to be British. This is one of those occasions.

    What’s to be (almost) ashamed of? Every nation has unlawful crazies. How a nation deals with said crazies is what reflects. Nothing whatever to be ashamed of, here.

  84. Codetech..
    heh..heh…theres nothing funnier than someone trying to patronise from a pov of such obvious ill informed opinion.
    You don’t find it bizarre that some monies that support AGW views sometimes comes from right wing think tanks, not just the usual left of centre sources? Everyone has an agenda in this debate. In fact McCain made a speech about this very thing. Do some Googling and start reading a bit, I’ll accept your apology later in good humour! Heh.

  85. I work at the Ratcliffe power station and I wish the planned protest went ahead. The disruption caused by one old coal power station coming offline would pave the way to allow new build across the country.

    By 2015 Britons will be able to read (by candlelight) about how the remaining power plants are unable to match the demand.

    Also, the planned coal station is at Kingsnorth, not Kingsthorpe as reported.

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