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	<title>Comments on: How not to measure temperature, part 85: what Katrina did for temperature measurement</title>
	<atom:link href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/23/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-85-what-katrina-did-for-temperature-measurement/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/23/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-85-what-katrina-did-for-temperature-measurement/</link>
	<description>The world&#039;s most viewed site on global warming and climate change</description>
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		<title>By: schnurrp</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/23/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-85-what-katrina-did-for-temperature-measurement/#comment-104480</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[schnurrp]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 14:41:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6500#comment-104480</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[3x2 (16:18:45) : 

The only proper way to communicate such sentiments, IMHO, is in a suicide note.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>3&#215;2 (16:18:45) : </p>
<p>The only proper way to communicate such sentiments, IMHO, is in a suicide note.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: schnurrp</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/23/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-85-what-katrina-did-for-temperature-measurement/#comment-104475</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[schnurrp]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 14:25:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6500#comment-104475</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sylvia (22:37:49) :

I&#039;ll have to read up on the Smart Grid.  Not familiar with that.  As for remote wireless temp sensing, it&#039;s not exactly a national security issue on par with the power grid and I don&#039;t yet believe that there is actually a conspiracy to shift temps up to promote AGW.  I still tend to believe that laziness and indifference and lack of initiative is behind most of the errors.  I hope I&#039;m right.

Think how valuable continuous weather data from properly sighted sensors fed into computers would be.  Well within our technical capabilities IMHO.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sylvia (22:37:49) :</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll have to read up on the Smart Grid.  Not familiar with that.  As for remote wireless temp sensing, it&#8217;s not exactly a national security issue on par with the power grid and I don&#8217;t yet believe that there is actually a conspiracy to shift temps up to promote AGW.  I still tend to believe that laziness and indifference and lack of initiative is behind most of the errors.  I hope I&#8217;m right.</p>
<p>Think how valuable continuous weather data from properly sighted sensors fed into computers would be.  Well within our technical capabilities IMHO.</p>
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		<title>By: Sylvia</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/23/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-85-what-katrina-did-for-temperature-measurement/#comment-104384</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sylvia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 06:37:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6500#comment-104384</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[schnurrp (07:53:24).  I thought about the wireless options, too, but then I read an article about the ease of hacking into the Smart Grid wireless electric power system that Obama is funding, and I decided not even to broach the subject.  

My guess is there is probably a stockpile of the equipment and cable for surface stations somewhere in a warehouse and what is lacking is the motivation and/or means to travel the country and repair or re-situate the stations.  With luck and more hard work, Anthony and his volunteers may just turn that tide and inspire the various agencies to care about the quality of their data, let alone the data collection devices.  One can hope.

In the meantime, I&#039;m striving to learn enough to understand the posts here (and the comments -- Leif takes a few readings and then I look things up and read again...) so I can, if the opportunity arises, do my part.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>schnurrp (07:53:24).  I thought about the wireless options, too, but then I read an article about the ease of hacking into the Smart Grid wireless electric power system that Obama is funding, and I decided not even to broach the subject.  </p>
<p>My guess is there is probably a stockpile of the equipment and cable for surface stations somewhere in a warehouse and what is lacking is the motivation and/or means to travel the country and repair or re-situate the stations.  With luck and more hard work, Anthony and his volunteers may just turn that tide and inspire the various agencies to care about the quality of their data, let alone the data collection devices.  One can hope.</p>
<p>In the meantime, I&#8217;m striving to learn enough to understand the posts here (and the comments &#8212; Leif takes a few readings and then I look things up and read again&#8230;) so I can, if the opportunity arises, do my part.</p>
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		<title>By: MattB</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/23/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-85-what-katrina-did-for-temperature-measurement/#comment-104329</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MattB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 04:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6500#comment-104329</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Combining Katrina and another recent post about galactic cosmic rays, any thoughts on whether the massive huricane season of 2005 could have had anything to do with the massive space/cosmic ray explosion December 27 2004

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/02/060221084628.htm]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Combining Katrina and another recent post about galactic cosmic rays, any thoughts on whether the massive huricane season of 2005 could have had anything to do with the massive space/cosmic ray explosion December 27 2004</p>
<p><a href="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/02/060221084628.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/02/060221084628.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: H.R.</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/23/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-85-what-katrina-did-for-temperature-measurement/#comment-104266</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[H.R.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 01:35:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6500#comment-104266</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Gary Plyler (06:54:47) : 

&quot;[...] Being from Washington state, this is my favorite:
http://gallery.surfacestations.org/main.php?g2_itemId=19357

Port Angeles, Washington. It’s a hoot! [...]&quot;

OMG!!! (G = Gaia, in newspeak)

I think it may also have the record for area of surrounding blacktop. It looks like several hundred feet of blacktop in any direction you care to go from the... well, I was going to call it a surface station, but it&#039;s up so high, I think its data may be part of the satellite record ;o)

Nice one!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Gary Plyler (06:54:47) : </p>
<p>&#8220;[...] Being from Washington state, this is my favorite:<br />
<a href="http://gallery.surfacestations.org/main.php?g2_itemId=19357" rel="nofollow">http://gallery.surfacestations.org/main.php?g2_itemId=19357</a></p>
<p>Port Angeles, Washington. It’s a hoot! [...]&#8221;</p>
<p>OMG!!! (G = Gaia, in newspeak)</p>
<p>I think it may also have the record for area of surrounding blacktop. It looks like several hundred feet of blacktop in any direction you care to go from the&#8230; well, I was going to call it a surface station, but it&#8217;s up so high, I think its data may be part of the satellite record ;o)</p>
<p>Nice one!</p>
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		<title>By: pwl</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/23/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-85-what-katrina-did-for-temperature-measurement/#comment-104243</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pwl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 00:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6500#comment-104243</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s clear that it&#039;s not Open Science if the specific methods of data collection and massaging (statical games with the data) are not FULLY specified with all the steps clearly spelled out for all to see.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s clear that it&#8217;s not Open Science if the specific methods of data collection and massaging (statical games with the data) are not FULLY specified with all the steps clearly spelled out for all to see.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/23/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-85-what-katrina-did-for-temperature-measurement/#comment-104240</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 00:25:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6500#comment-104240</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[schnurrp (06:22:43) :

It appears to me that much of the problem with siting of temperature sensors may have to do with accessibility. In this wireless age why can’t we develop a standardized remote sensing package that can be installed properly, independent of easy human accessibility, and monitored remotely. We could even use solar power cells to power it or a little windmill on top. This would also solve the time-of-day problem.

Good use for some of that stimulus money I think.

The problem with that is that if the government actually got &#039;real numbers&#039;, they wouldn&#039;t use them anyway because it would probably reduce their justification in raising taxes on every form of energy in the name of reducing co2 to stop imaginary AGW]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>schnurrp (06:22:43) :</p>
<p>It appears to me that much of the problem with siting of temperature sensors may have to do with accessibility. In this wireless age why can’t we develop a standardized remote sensing package that can be installed properly, independent of easy human accessibility, and monitored remotely. We could even use solar power cells to power it or a little windmill on top. This would also solve the time-of-day problem.</p>
<p>Good use for some of that stimulus money I think.</p>
<p>The problem with that is that if the government actually got &#8216;real numbers&#8217;, they wouldn&#8217;t use them anyway because it would probably reduce their justification in raising taxes on every form of energy in the name of reducing co2 to stop imaginary AGW</p>
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		<title>By: 3x2</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/23/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-85-what-katrina-did-for-temperature-measurement/#comment-104235</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[3x2]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 00:18:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6500#comment-104235</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt; schnurrp (04:13:35) :
OT: UK population must fall to 30m (...)

&quot;(Porritt) one of Gordon Brown’s leading green advisers, is to warn that Britain must drastically reduce its population if it is to build a sustainable society.&quot;

&quot;Porritt is winning scientific backing. Professor Chris Rapley, director of the Science Museum, will use the OPT conference, to be held at the Royal Statistical Society, to warn that population growth could help derail attempts to cut greenhouse gas emissions. &quot;

&quot;Many experts believe that, since Europeans and Americans have such a lopsided impact on the environment, the world would benefit more from reducing their populations than by making cuts in developing countries.&quot; 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Of course we, the disposable 50%,  will just walk quietly into the fires. Just got to love &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.optimumpopulation.org/opt.aboutus.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Profs of (X)&lt;/a&gt; - they really do believe that they will be part of the remaining 50% when the carbon settles. 

Profs! .. its called &lt;i&gt;GENOCIDE&lt;/i&gt; and it is a precursor to &lt;i&gt;WAR&lt;/i&gt;


http://www.optimumpopulation.org/
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5950442.ece]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> schnurrp (04:13:35) :<br />
OT: UK population must fall to 30m (&#8230;)</p>
<p>&#8220;(Porritt) one of Gordon Brown’s leading green advisers, is to warn that Britain must drastically reduce its population if it is to build a sustainable society.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Porritt is winning scientific backing. Professor Chris Rapley, director of the Science Museum, will use the OPT conference, to be held at the Royal Statistical Society, to warn that population growth could help derail attempts to cut greenhouse gas emissions. &#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Many experts believe that, since Europeans and Americans have such a lopsided impact on the environment, the world would benefit more from reducing their populations than by making cuts in developing countries.&#8221;
</p></blockquote>
<p>Of course we, the disposable 50%,  will just walk quietly into the fires. Just got to love <a href="http://www.optimumpopulation.org/opt.aboutus.html" rel="nofollow">Profs of (X)</a> &#8211; they really do believe that they will be part of the remaining 50% when the carbon settles. </p>
<p>Profs! .. its called <i>GENOCIDE</i> and it is a precursor to <i>WAR</i></p>
<p><a href="http://www.optimumpopulation.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.optimumpopulation.org/</a><br />
<a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5950442.ece" rel="nofollow">http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5950442.ece</a></p>
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		<title>By: DaveE</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/23/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-85-what-katrina-did-for-temperature-measurement/#comment-104200</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DaveE]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:17:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6500#comment-104200</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot; dearieme (04:01:26) :

Lucky that they didn’t have a steam line to site it by.&quot;

They did try but it was too far from the sewage plant ;-)

DaveE.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; dearieme (04:01:26) :</p>
<p>Lucky that they didn’t have a steam line to site it by.&#8221;</p>
<p>They did try but it was too far from the sewage plant ;-)</p>
<p>DaveE.</p>
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		<title>By: pwl</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/23/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-85-what-katrina-did-for-temperature-measurement/#comment-104181</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pwl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:35:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6500#comment-104181</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It amazes me that the quality of these temperature sensors is so suspect. 

How in their right mind could anyone have placed them where they are? 

Then they massage the data till they get a &#039;statistical&#039; reality that they can use to promote their agenda?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It amazes me that the quality of these temperature sensors is so suspect. </p>
<p>How in their right mind could anyone have placed them where they are? </p>
<p>Then they massage the data till they get a &#8216;statistical&#8217; reality that they can use to promote their agenda?</p>
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		<title>By: Leon Brozyna</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/23/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-85-what-katrina-did-for-temperature-measurement/#comment-104172</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leon Brozyna]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 22:11:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6500#comment-104172</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Whoops — they did it again!

That blinker comparison shows &#039;em adjusting the early years down and later years up. No wonder there&#039;s global warming. They get funny data due to bad siting giving warmer readings than in the surrounding area and then they adjust it even more upwards.

My tax dollars hard at work.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoops — they did it again!</p>
<p>That blinker comparison shows &#8216;em adjusting the early years down and later years up. No wonder there&#8217;s global warming. They get funny data due to bad siting giving warmer readings than in the surrounding area and then they adjust it even more upwards.</p>
<p>My tax dollars hard at work.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Vaughan</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/23/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-85-what-katrina-did-for-temperature-measurement/#comment-104164</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Vaughan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6500#comment-104164</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This story reminded me of daily temperature data (in degrees Celsius) for a weather station (in a jurisdiction that will remain anonymous).  These are not the exact data - but they convey the most striking aspect of the trend:
5, 3, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 4, 3, 6, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 3, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 ...

For those who think in Farenheit, 0 is the freezing point in Celsius - and during those strings of 0&#039;s I assure you the temperature went below zero (to varying extents on different days).  The technician can&#039;t fool you so easily when the data are for your own locality.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This story reminded me of daily temperature data (in degrees Celsius) for a weather station (in a jurisdiction that will remain anonymous).  These are not the exact data &#8211; but they convey the most striking aspect of the trend:<br />
5, 3, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 4, 3, 6, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 3, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 &#8230;</p>
<p>For those who think in Farenheit, 0 is the freezing point in Celsius &#8211; and during those strings of 0&#8242;s I assure you the temperature went below zero (to varying extents on different days).  The technician can&#8217;t fool you so easily when the data are for your own locality.</p>
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		<title>By: George E. Smith</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/23/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-85-what-katrina-did-for-temperature-measurement/#comment-104117</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[George E. Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 20:49:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6500#comment-104117</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well that one is surely a humdinger.   You could make it a bit worse by putting the device next to the pipes from a geo-thermal power plant.

Does this scene remind one of Jurascic park ?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well that one is surely a humdinger.   You could make it a bit worse by putting the device next to the pipes from a geo-thermal power plant.</p>
<p>Does this scene remind one of Jurascic park ?</p>
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		<title>By: John F. Hultquist</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/23/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-85-what-katrina-did-for-temperature-measurement/#comment-103997</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John F. Hultquist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:27:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6500#comment-103997</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gary Plyler (06:54:47)    
I’m from the dry side of WA State.
Seems the Port Angeles, WA weather station was put on top of a pole because of “repeated acts of vandalism” along the walk-way at City Hall.  These reports suggest that, more often than not, the least of the priorities for a station’s location is providing accurate information.  
I’ve yet to go look at our local weather stations but know one is at the sewage treatment facility south of the town and one at the small airport north of the town.  If and when we get a nice day, I may go investigate.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gary Plyler (06:54:47)<br />
I’m from the dry side of WA State.<br />
Seems the Port Angeles, WA weather station was put on top of a pole because of “repeated acts of vandalism” along the walk-way at City Hall.  These reports suggest that, more often than not, the least of the priorities for a station’s location is providing accurate information.<br />
I’ve yet to go look at our local weather stations but know one is at the sewage treatment facility south of the town and one at the small airport north of the town.  If and when we get a nice day, I may go investigate.</p>
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		<title>By: D Caldwell</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/23/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-85-what-katrina-did-for-temperature-measurement/#comment-103975</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[D Caldwell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:00:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6500#comment-103975</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Since the surface sensor network and all the associated adjustments continue to show what they already know is happening, there will not be any official investigation of its accuracy.  If it ain&#039;t broke, don&#039;t fix it.  

The ARGO data was obviously wrong since it showed the oceans cooling in a direct contradiction of what the GCM&#039;s say is actually happening.  Since that can&#039;t be the case, they did an intense investigation, found the &quot;problem&quot;, and &quot;fixed&quot; the data.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since the surface sensor network and all the associated adjustments continue to show what they already know is happening, there will not be any official investigation of its accuracy.  If it ain&#8217;t broke, don&#8217;t fix it.  </p>
<p>The ARGO data was obviously wrong since it showed the oceans cooling in a direct contradiction of what the GCM&#8217;s say is actually happening.  Since that can&#8217;t be the case, they did an intense investigation, found the &#8220;problem&#8221;, and &#8220;fixed&#8221; the data.</p>
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