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	<title>Comments on: Beryllium 10 and climate</title>
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		<title>By: adrian kerton</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/17/beryllium-10-and-climate/#comment-109634</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[adrian kerton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 15:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6286#comment-109634</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You might be interested in this paper.

Climate Change and the Earth&#039;s Magnetic Poles, A Possible Connection

http://www.akk.me.uk

Abstract:
Many natural mechanisms have been proposed for climate change during the past millennia, however, none of these appears to have accounted for the change in global temperature seen over the second half of the last century. As such the rise in temperature has been attributed to man made mechanisms. Analysis of the movement of the Earth&#039;s magnetic poles over the last 105 years demonstrates strong correlations between the position of the north magnetic, and geomagnetic poles, and both northern hemisphere and global temperatures. Although these correlations are surprising, a statistical analysis shows there is a less than one percent chance they are random, but it is not clear how movements of the poles affect climate. Links between changes in the Earth&#039;s magnetic field and climate change, have been proposed previously although the exact mechanism is disputed. These include: The Earth&#039;s magnetic field affects the energy transfer rates from the solar wind to the Earth&#039;s atmosphere which in turn affects the North Atlantic Oscillation. Movement of the poles changes the geographic distribution of galactic and solar cosmic rays, moving them to particularly climate sensitive areas. Changes in distribution of ultraviolet rays resulting from the movement of the magnetic field, may result in increases in the death rates of carbon sinking oceanic plant life such as phytoplankton.


Author: Kerton, Adrian K.
Source: Energy &amp; Environment, Volume 20, Numbers 1-2, January 2009 , pp. 75-83(9)
Publisher: Multi-Science Publishing Co Ltd
Keywords: MAGNETIC POLES; DRIFT; CLIMATE; COSMIC RAYS

Document Type: Research article

DOI: 10.1260/095830509787689286]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You might be interested in this paper.</p>
<p>Climate Change and the Earth&#8217;s Magnetic Poles, A Possible Connection</p>
<p><a href="http://www.akk.me.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.akk.me.uk</a></p>
<p>Abstract:<br />
Many natural mechanisms have been proposed for climate change during the past millennia, however, none of these appears to have accounted for the change in global temperature seen over the second half of the last century. As such the rise in temperature has been attributed to man made mechanisms. Analysis of the movement of the Earth&#8217;s magnetic poles over the last 105 years demonstrates strong correlations between the position of the north magnetic, and geomagnetic poles, and both northern hemisphere and global temperatures. Although these correlations are surprising, a statistical analysis shows there is a less than one percent chance they are random, but it is not clear how movements of the poles affect climate. Links between changes in the Earth&#8217;s magnetic field and climate change, have been proposed previously although the exact mechanism is disputed. These include: The Earth&#8217;s magnetic field affects the energy transfer rates from the solar wind to the Earth&#8217;s atmosphere which in turn affects the North Atlantic Oscillation. Movement of the poles changes the geographic distribution of galactic and solar cosmic rays, moving them to particularly climate sensitive areas. Changes in distribution of ultraviolet rays resulting from the movement of the magnetic field, may result in increases in the death rates of carbon sinking oceanic plant life such as phytoplankton.</p>
<p>Author: Kerton, Adrian K.<br />
Source: Energy &amp; Environment, Volume 20, Numbers 1-2, January 2009 , pp. 75-83(9)<br />
Publisher: Multi-Science Publishing Co Ltd<br />
Keywords: MAGNETIC POLES; DRIFT; CLIMATE; COSMIC RAYS</p>
<p>Document Type: Research article</p>
<p>DOI: 10.1260/095830509787689286</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mihail</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/17/beryllium-10-and-climate/#comment-104196</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mihail]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:10:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6286#comment-104196</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In about half an hour I have to go with my students to a lab, where we have cloud chambers and we are going to see dirrectly GCR leave little &quot;steam&quot; tracks in methanol. The same thing happens in atmosphere in those layers where the water vapor due to adiabatic cooling reached saturation, but needs something to nucleate the condensation. This is a reversible process and at the same time chaotic. This means that more GCR bring have an enhanced effect. How can this affect the weather? I am going to present here a mechanism. I don&#039;t know the quantitative effect, we might never know it given the high complexity of the situation, but we can&#039;t ignore it.

As we have more GCRs in the atmosphere, we form clouds and precipitation at a lower humidity threshold. What does this mean? It means that clouds are more likely to form where the water evaporates, that is at tropical regions and that humidity has less chances of reaching higher latitudes. This has the effect of increasing the albedo at tropical regions, where the solar irradiation is the most important and of decreasing the humidity at higher latitudes where this enhances the thermal radiation (we all know that water is an important green house gas and more abundant than CO2). Obviously, there are places where increased GCR produce an opposite effect due to geographical particularities, but the general trend is clear.
Again, it is obvious that TSI varies insignificantly with the solar cycle and that the GCR level is modulated by the solar activity. We don&#039;t know though the intrinsic variability in GCR, I am an astrophysicist and we believe that they come from many sources to keep them more or less constant, but isolated events can cause major spikes.
In my oppinion, I think that the GCR level is an important weather regulator, more important than the man made CO2 emissions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In about half an hour I have to go with my students to a lab, where we have cloud chambers and we are going to see dirrectly GCR leave little &#8220;steam&#8221; tracks in methanol. The same thing happens in atmosphere in those layers where the water vapor due to adiabatic cooling reached saturation, but needs something to nucleate the condensation. This is a reversible process and at the same time chaotic. This means that more GCR bring have an enhanced effect. How can this affect the weather? I am going to present here a mechanism. I don&#8217;t know the quantitative effect, we might never know it given the high complexity of the situation, but we can&#8217;t ignore it.</p>
<p>As we have more GCRs in the atmosphere, we form clouds and precipitation at a lower humidity threshold. What does this mean? It means that clouds are more likely to form where the water evaporates, that is at tropical regions and that humidity has less chances of reaching higher latitudes. This has the effect of increasing the albedo at tropical regions, where the solar irradiation is the most important and of decreasing the humidity at higher latitudes where this enhances the thermal radiation (we all know that water is an important green house gas and more abundant than CO2). Obviously, there are places where increased GCR produce an opposite effect due to geographical particularities, but the general trend is clear.<br />
Again, it is obvious that TSI varies insignificantly with the solar cycle and that the GCR level is modulated by the solar activity. We don&#8217;t know though the intrinsic variability in GCR, I am an astrophysicist and we believe that they come from many sources to keep them more or less constant, but isolated events can cause major spikes.<br />
In my oppinion, I think that the GCR level is an important weather regulator, more important than the man made CO2 emissions.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: David J Ameling</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/17/beryllium-10-and-climate/#comment-104152</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David J Ameling]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:36:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6286#comment-104152</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard (16:30:48)

I tend to agree with you.  As I originally said the Wikipedia explanation doesn&#039;t do it for me.  It says things like the following; &quot;If the atmosphere is more opaque, the typical photon escaping into space will be emitted from higher in the atmosphere, because one then has to go to higher altitudes to see out to space in the infrared.  Since the emission of infrared radiation is a function of temperature, it is the temperature of the atmosphere at this emission level that is effectively determined by the requirement that the emitted flux balance the absorbed solar flux.&quot;    This makes little sense to me.

I wish Watt would post a posting that deals with quantifying the affect of the &quot;greenhouse effect&quot;  Then there would be a proper venue for discussing how the greenhouse effect is supposed to work.

I think if the affect of the greenhouse effect could be quantified it would be far less than the effect due to solar activity.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leif Svalgaard (16:30:48)</p>
<p>I tend to agree with you.  As I originally said the Wikipedia explanation doesn&#8217;t do it for me.  It says things like the following; &#8220;If the atmosphere is more opaque, the typical photon escaping into space will be emitted from higher in the atmosphere, because one then has to go to higher altitudes to see out to space in the infrared.  Since the emission of infrared radiation is a function of temperature, it is the temperature of the atmosphere at this emission level that is effectively determined by the requirement that the emitted flux balance the absorbed solar flux.&#8221;    This makes little sense to me.</p>
<p>I wish Watt would post a posting that deals with quantifying the affect of the &#8220;greenhouse effect&#8221;  Then there would be a proper venue for discussing how the greenhouse effect is supposed to work.</p>
<p>I think if the affect of the greenhouse effect could be quantified it would be far less than the effect due to solar activity.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/17/beryllium-10-and-climate/#comment-103617</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 00:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6286#comment-103617</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David J Ameling (16:03:24) :
&lt;i&gt;The greenhouse effect is supposed to warm the atmosphere. Nothing we have discussed shows this happening.&lt;/i&gt;
The greenhouse effect warms the surface by returning some of the surface heat back to the surface warming it even more. A warmer surface in turns warms the atmosphere.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David J Ameling (16:03:24) :<br />
<i>The greenhouse effect is supposed to warm the atmosphere. Nothing we have discussed shows this happening.</i><br />
The greenhouse effect warms the surface by returning some of the surface heat back to the surface warming it even more. A warmer surface in turns warms the atmosphere.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: David J Ameling</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/17/beryllium-10-and-climate/#comment-103606</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David J Ameling]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 00:03:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6286#comment-103606</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard (?????)
 
We were discussing how the Greenhouse Effect is supposed to work.

We agreed that  increasing the concentration of CO2 would reduce the penetration into the atmosphere towards earth of the those photons absorbable by CO2 coming from space (sun).

I believe we agreed that increasing the concentration of CO2 would reduce the penetration into the atmosphere of photons absorbable by CO2 radiated from earth.   This process was not as efficient as the reduction of absorbable photons coming from space.  This is due to the fact once a CO2 absorbed photon is reradiated into space it is lost forever.   While the CO2 absorbed photons that are reradiated to earth have there energy absorbed by earth.  When this energy is again radiated from earth there is only a 50% reduction in the photons that are absorbable by a GHG.  

The greenhouse effect is supposed to warm the atmosphere.  Nothing we have discussed shows this happening.  

Is this supposed to be happening while the CO2 photons are being converted to photons that are not absorbable by GHGs by repeated absorbtion and reradiation by earth?  Is this supposed to be happening due to a slight increase in the earth&#039;s temperature caused by the retention of heat energy during the additional time required to convert GHG absorbable photons to non-absorbable photons?  Is this increase in temperature causing more heat energy to be transfered to the atmosphere by conduction and convection?  Is this how the greenhouse effect is supposed to work?

A more efficient method would be for the energy gained by a CO2 molecule due to an absorbed photon be transvered to other atmospheric molecules due to collisions.  This would cause a greater warming of the atmosphere.  But I believe you don&#039;t think this happens.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leif Svalgaard (?????)</p>
<p>We were discussing how the Greenhouse Effect is supposed to work.</p>
<p>We agreed that  increasing the concentration of CO2 would reduce the penetration into the atmosphere towards earth of the those photons absorbable by CO2 coming from space (sun).</p>
<p>I believe we agreed that increasing the concentration of CO2 would reduce the penetration into the atmosphere of photons absorbable by CO2 radiated from earth.   This process was not as efficient as the reduction of absorbable photons coming from space.  This is due to the fact once a CO2 absorbed photon is reradiated into space it is lost forever.   While the CO2 absorbed photons that are reradiated to earth have there energy absorbed by earth.  When this energy is again radiated from earth there is only a 50% reduction in the photons that are absorbable by a GHG.  </p>
<p>The greenhouse effect is supposed to warm the atmosphere.  Nothing we have discussed shows this happening.  </p>
<p>Is this supposed to be happening while the CO2 photons are being converted to photons that are not absorbable by GHGs by repeated absorbtion and reradiation by earth?  Is this supposed to be happening due to a slight increase in the earth&#8217;s temperature caused by the retention of heat energy during the additional time required to convert GHG absorbable photons to non-absorbable photons?  Is this increase in temperature causing more heat energy to be transfered to the atmosphere by conduction and convection?  Is this how the greenhouse effect is supposed to work?</p>
<p>A more efficient method would be for the energy gained by a CO2 molecule due to an absorbed photon be transvered to other atmospheric molecules due to collisions.  This would cause a greater warming of the atmosphere.  But I believe you don&#8217;t think this happens.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: lgl</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/17/beryllium-10-and-climate/#comment-103574</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lgl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:19:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6286#comment-103574</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Leif,
My &#039;problem&#039; was &lt;i&gt;Absorption of those photons do not heat those tri-atomic molecules as they very shortly thereafter re-emits the radiation they have just absorbed&lt;/i&gt;, which is not my understanding of &#039;how it is supposed to work&#039;, but we don&#039;t have to start all over again.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leif,<br />
My &#8216;problem&#8217; was <i>Absorption of those photons do not heat those tri-atomic molecules as they very shortly thereafter re-emits the radiation they have just absorbed</i>, which is not my understanding of &#8216;how it is supposed to work&#8217;, but we don&#8217;t have to start all over again.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/17/beryllium-10-and-climate/#comment-103539</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 19:26:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6286#comment-103539</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard (09:42:01) :
&lt;i&gt;All we need the GHGs to do is to return half of the LW photons to the surface. What’s your problem with that?&lt;/i&gt;
I finally see what your problem is and in my zeal to supply the &#039;supposed to work&#039; party line [and I started with noting that that may not be how it actually works] I overlooked that any process [even collisions] that warms the GHGs will result in downwelling LW. So, perhaps no difference here. In any case, the original poster probably couldn&#039;t care less, because he just wanted an excuse for &#039;proving&#039; that there is no GH effect. He is probably equally disgusted with both our answers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leif Svalgaard (09:42:01) :<br />
<i>All we need the GHGs to do is to return half of the LW photons to the surface. What’s your problem with that?</i><br />
I finally see what your problem is and in my zeal to supply the &#8216;supposed to work&#8217; party line [and I started with noting that that may not be how it actually works] I overlooked that any process [even collisions] that warms the GHGs will result in downwelling LW. So, perhaps no difference here. In any case, the original poster probably couldn&#8217;t care less, because he just wanted an excuse for &#8216;proving&#8217; that there is no GH effect. He is probably equally disgusted with both our answers.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/17/beryllium-10-and-climate/#comment-103525</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 18:46:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6286#comment-103525</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[REPLY - Your &quot;rise&quot; has &quot;fallen&quot;. ~ Evan]
thanks Evan. No need to post the &#039;thank you&#039;. - Leif]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[REPLY - Your "rise" has "fallen". ~ Evan]<br />
thanks Evan. No need to post the &#8216;thank you&#8217;. &#8211; Leif</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/17/beryllium-10-and-climate/#comment-103493</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:42:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6286#comment-103493</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[lgl (08:49:01) :
&lt;i&gt;All I have said is basically that the downwelling LW is there because the atmosphere is warm, not because GHG first absorbed LW, even though some of the heat comes from that absorption of course. And that any heating of the surface is ampified around 2.5 by the GHGs.&lt;/i&gt;
Then I don&#039;t know why you have been dragging this on for so long. The original poster asked what the explanation of the GH effect was supposed to be [this being the usual rhetorical question because he just wanted to proclaim that there is no GH effect]. My answer was that the surface is warmed by direct sunlight [short wave, SW] and radiates in LW which the GHGs return a part of to further warm the surface. Nobody was talking about the GHGs being warmed by photons. All we need the GHGs to do is to return half of the LW photons to the surface. What&#039;s your problem with that?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lgl (08:49:01) :<br />
<i>All I have said is basically that the downwelling LW is there because the atmosphere is warm, not because GHG first absorbed LW, even though some of the heat comes from that absorption of course. And that any heating of the surface is ampified around 2.5 by the GHGs.</i><br />
Then I don&#8217;t know why you have been dragging this on for so long. The original poster asked what the explanation of the GH effect was supposed to be [this being the usual rhetorical question because he just wanted to proclaim that there is no GH effect]. My answer was that the surface is warmed by direct sunlight [short wave, SW] and radiates in LW which the GHGs return a part of to further warm the surface. Nobody was talking about the GHGs being warmed by photons. All we need the GHGs to do is to return half of the LW photons to the surface. What&#8217;s your problem with that?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: lgl</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/17/beryllium-10-and-climate/#comment-103476</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lgl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6286#comment-103476</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Leif,
&lt;i&gt;as long as you have downward radiation you have a greenhouse effect. How many times are you going to deny that?&lt;/i&gt;
Don&#039;t know who you mean, can&#039;t be me.
All I have said is basically that the downwelling LW is there because the atmosphere is warm, not because GHG first absorbed LW, even though some of the heat comes from that absorption of course.
And that any heating of the surface is ampified around 2.5 by the GHGs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leif,<br />
<i>as long as you have downward radiation you have a greenhouse effect. How many times are you going to deny that?</i><br />
Don&#8217;t know who you mean, can&#8217;t be me.<br />
All I have said is basically that the downwelling LW is there because the atmosphere is warm, not because GHG first absorbed LW, even though some of the heat comes from that absorption of course.<br />
And that any heating of the surface is ampified around 2.5 by the GHGs.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/17/beryllium-10-and-climate/#comment-103473</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6286#comment-103473</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard (08:33:44) : 
gary gulrud (07:44:34) :
BTW, do you maintain a CV at your site?
Results in too much spam, but my publication list is there:
http://www.leif.org/research/Leif%20Svalgaard%20Publications%20and%20Talks.pdf

perhaps the moderator would correct my [involuntarily funny] wrong copy-paste.

[REPLY - Your &quot;rise&quot; has &quot;fallen&quot;. ~ Evan]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leif Svalgaard (08:33:44) :<br />
gary gulrud (07:44:34) :<br />
BTW, do you maintain a CV at your site?<br />
Results in too much spam, but my publication list is there:<br />
<a href="http://www.leif.org/research/Leif%20Svalgaard%20Publications%20and%20Talks.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.leif.org/research/Leif%20Svalgaard%20Publications%20and%20Talks.pdf</a></p>
<p>perhaps the moderator would correct my [involuntarily funny] wrong copy-paste.</p>
<p>[REPLY - Your "rise" has "fallen". ~ Evan]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: gary gulrud</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/17/beryllium-10-and-climate/#comment-103451</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gary gulrud]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 15:44:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6286#comment-103451</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Why don’t you do some constructive research&quot;

Touche.

BTW, do you maintain a CV at your site?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Why don’t you do some constructive research&#8221;</p>
<p>Touche.</p>
<p>BTW, do you maintain a CV at your site?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/17/beryllium-10-and-climate/#comment-103441</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 15:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6286#comment-103441</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[gary gulrud (04:20:02) :
&lt;i&gt;A range in the variable greater than its ascertained value, a signal indication of a dodgy result.&lt;/i&gt;
It is beneath a gentleman to use terms as &#039;dodgy&#039; in a serious discussion of other people&#039;s work, but clearly not beneath you. Anyway, the providers of the data [and others] claim a residence time of the order of two years. At some point we trust what people you know do, but a little due diligence never hurts, so we use a standard technique to determine the lag between time series: you compute the cross-correlation coefficient between the two series, then move one series over one time step and calculate again, etc. A plot of the resulting coefficients as a function of lag will show you at what lag the coefficient is largest. The insert in the upper left-hand corner of the Figure on page 7 of http://www.leif.org/research/Consensus-I.pdf shows you the result, confirming a lag of two years as they claimed. It is also clear simply by inspection of their data that the lag is somewhat variable, for example, their peak in 1899 follows the sunspot maximum in 1893, so some additional variability exceeding the nominal two years is present.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>gary gulrud (04:20:02) :<br />
<i>A range in the variable greater than its ascertained value, a signal indication of a dodgy result.</i><br />
It is beneath a gentleman to use terms as &#8216;dodgy&#8217; in a serious discussion of other people&#8217;s work, but clearly not beneath you. Anyway, the providers of the data [and others] claim a residence time of the order of two years. At some point we trust what people you know do, but a little due diligence never hurts, so we use a standard technique to determine the lag between time series: you compute the cross-correlation coefficient between the two series, then move one series over one time step and calculate again, etc. A plot of the resulting coefficients as a function of lag will show you at what lag the coefficient is largest. The insert in the upper left-hand corner of the Figure on page 7 of <a href="http://www.leif.org/research/Consensus-I.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.leif.org/research/Consensus-I.pdf</a> shows you the result, confirming a lag of two years as they claimed. It is also clear simply by inspection of their data that the lag is somewhat variable, for example, their peak in 1899 follows the sunspot maximum in 1893, so some additional variability exceeding the nominal two years is present.</p>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/17/beryllium-10-and-climate/#comment-103410</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 14:27:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6286#comment-103410</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[gary gulrud (04:20:02) :
&lt;i&gt;Dare we ask for the residence time of nitrate aloft?&lt;/i&gt;
Why don&#039;t you do some constructive research for a change and find out?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>gary gulrud (04:20:02) :<br />
<i>Dare we ask for the residence time of nitrate aloft?</i><br />
Why don&#8217;t you do some constructive research for a change and find out?</p>
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		<title>By: gary gulrud</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/17/beryllium-10-and-climate/#comment-103377</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gary gulrud]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 12:20:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=6286#comment-103377</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;the residence time of 10Be in the atmosphere is thought to be short [~2 years], but it is not clear how firm that is&quot;

It seems the facts have hardened during the period of this thread.

&quot;10Be lags the HMF [or the solar cycle] by 2-5 years&quot;

A range in the variable greater than its ascertained value,  a signal indication of a dodgy result.

Snow blows and snow sublimes, the maximum effect varying with the season.  Is this chalked up to climate?

Dare we ask for the residence time of nitrate aloft?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;the residence time of 10Be in the atmosphere is thought to be short [~2 years], but it is not clear how firm that is&#8221;</p>
<p>It seems the facts have hardened during the period of this thread.</p>
<p>&#8220;10Be lags the HMF [or the solar cycle] by 2-5 years&#8221;</p>
<p>A range in the variable greater than its ascertained value,  a signal indication of a dodgy result.</p>
<p>Snow blows and snow sublimes, the maximum effect varying with the season.  Is this chalked up to climate?</p>
<p>Dare we ask for the residence time of nitrate aloft?</p>
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