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	<title>Comments on: The Trade Winds Drive The ENSO</title>
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	<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/17/the-trade-winds-drive-the-enso/</link>
	<description>The world&#039;s most viewed site on global warming and climate change</description>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/17/the-trade-winds-drive-the-enso/#comment-90888</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 19:03:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Volantis (10:15:31) :
&lt;i&gt;the Sun is not positively charged [surplus of ions] and the Earth is not negatively charged [surplus of electrons].
If the outer reaches of the Sun are not positively charged, then is it your view that the solar wind is made from something other than protons?&lt;/i&gt;&lt;i&gt;
The solar wind is EQUAL amounts of protons and electrons [with a little bit of other stuff thrown in].&lt;/i&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Volantis (10:15:31) :<br />
<i>the Sun is not positively charged [surplus of ions] and the Earth is not negatively charged [surplus of electrons].<br />
If the outer reaches of the Sun are not positively charged, then is it your view that the solar wind is made from something other than protons?</i><i><br />
The solar wind is EQUAL amounts of protons and electrons [with a little bit of other stuff thrown in].</i></p>
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		<title>By: Volantis</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/17/the-trade-winds-drive-the-enso/#comment-88981</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Volantis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 18:15:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=5702#comment-88981</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;the Sun is not positively charged [surplus of ions] and the Earth is not negatively charged [surplus of electrons]. &lt;/i&gt;
If the outer reaches of the Sun are not positively charged, then is it your view that the solar wind is made from something other than protons?  And if the Earth&#039;s ionosphere is not the outer layer of electric charge for the Earth then what is?  Also, how would you explain the consistent attraction of the concentrated electrons in the Earth&#039;s ionosphere toward the Sun?

These are not rhetorical questions, but a sincere attempt to understand your explanation for observed phenomena.

Dave]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>the Sun is not positively charged [surplus of ions] and the Earth is not negatively charged [surplus of electrons]. </i><br />
If the outer reaches of the Sun are not positively charged, then is it your view that the solar wind is made from something other than protons?  And if the Earth&#8217;s ionosphere is not the outer layer of electric charge for the Earth then what is?  Also, how would you explain the consistent attraction of the concentrated electrons in the Earth&#8217;s ionosphere toward the Sun?</p>
<p>These are not rhetorical questions, but a sincere attempt to understand your explanation for observed phenomena.</p>
<p>Dave</p>
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		<title>By: tallbloke</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/17/the-trade-winds-drive-the-enso/#comment-88644</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tallbloke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 09:05:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Wow, great resource, thanks! I love the positivistic nature of the intro to section 19. Only one &#039;probably and one &#039;may have&#039; in the whole paragraph. ;-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, great resource, thanks! I love the positivistic nature of the intro to section 19. Only one &#8216;probably and one &#8216;may have&#8217; in the whole paragraph. ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: tallbloke</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/17/the-trade-winds-drive-the-enso/#comment-88640</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tallbloke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 08:59:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=5702#comment-88640</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The earth&#039;s magnetic field is quite strongly modulated by changes in the strength of the solar wind though, so although those electric currents in the ocean and atmosphere are only 1/1000 of the main field, they will vary quite a bit. I agree that pressure differences are going to be much bigger drivers of trade winds. Would the electric effects make much of a difference to cloud formation/distribution and the triggering of precipitation events I wonder? They cause cooling and pressure changes. I seem to remember diagrams of storm clouds in old encyclopedias which had lots of ++++ and ----- signs at the top and bottom.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The earth&#8217;s magnetic field is quite strongly modulated by changes in the strength of the solar wind though, so although those electric currents in the ocean and atmosphere are only 1/1000 of the main field, they will vary quite a bit. I agree that pressure differences are going to be much bigger drivers of trade winds. Would the electric effects make much of a difference to cloud formation/distribution and the triggering of precipitation events I wonder? They cause cooling and pressure changes. I seem to remember diagrams of storm clouds in old encyclopedias which had lots of ++++ and &#8212;&#8211; signs at the top and bottom.</p>
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		<title>By: maksimovich</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/17/the-trade-winds-drive-the-enso/#comment-88529</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[maksimovich]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 05:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=5702#comment-88529</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kastings model estimates 10-200x todays levels. Quite a range. Only two datapoints beyond 1/2 billion years ago

This region of paleoclimate has a significant problem called the Faint sun paradox.

This is not only in the change in GHG /luminosity as evolution tells another story.So one cannot use the former explanation without constructing a new evolutionary theory.Hence the paradox.

eg Pavlov 2001

Organic haze in Earth&#039;s early atmosphere: Source of low-13C Late Archean kerogens?
Alexander A. Pavlov*,1, James F. Kasting*,1, Jennifer L. Eigenbrode*,1 and Katherine H. Freeman*,1

1 Department of Geosciences, Pennsylvania State University, University Park, Pennsylvania 16802, USA

High concentrations of greenhouse gases would have been required to offset low solar luminosity early in Earth&#039;s history. Enhanced CO2 levels are probably at least part of the solution, but CH4 may have played a significant role as well, particularly during the Late Archean era, 2.5–3.0 Ga, when methanogenic bacteria were almost certainly present. Indeed, biological CH4 production should have led to CO2 drawdown by way of a negative feedback loop involving the carbonate-silicate geochemical cycle. We suggest here that the atmospheric CH4/CO2 ratio approached the value of ~1 needed to trigger formation of Titan-like organic haze. This haze was strongly depleted in 13C relative to 12C and was produced at a rate comparable to the modern rate of organic carbon burial in marine sediments. Therefore, it could provide a novel explanation for the presence of extremely low-13C kerogens in Late Archean sediments.

http://geology.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/29/11/1003

Titan  answers some open problems 

http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object/index.cfm?fobjectid=36370]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kastings model estimates 10-200x todays levels. Quite a range. Only two datapoints beyond 1/2 billion years ago</p>
<p>This region of paleoclimate has a significant problem called the Faint sun paradox.</p>
<p>This is not only in the change in GHG /luminosity as evolution tells another story.So one cannot use the former explanation without constructing a new evolutionary theory.Hence the paradox.</p>
<p>eg Pavlov 2001</p>
<p>Organic haze in Earth&#8217;s early atmosphere: Source of low-13C Late Archean kerogens?<br />
Alexander A. Pavlov*,1, James F. Kasting*,1, Jennifer L. Eigenbrode*,1 and Katherine H. Freeman*,1</p>
<p>1 Department of Geosciences, Pennsylvania State University, University Park, Pennsylvania 16802, USA</p>
<p>High concentrations of greenhouse gases would have been required to offset low solar luminosity early in Earth&#8217;s history. Enhanced CO2 levels are probably at least part of the solution, but CH4 may have played a significant role as well, particularly during the Late Archean era, 2.5–3.0 Ga, when methanogenic bacteria were almost certainly present. Indeed, biological CH4 production should have led to CO2 drawdown by way of a negative feedback loop involving the carbonate-silicate geochemical cycle. We suggest here that the atmospheric CH4/CO2 ratio approached the value of ~1 needed to trigger formation of Titan-like organic haze. This haze was strongly depleted in 13C relative to 12C and was produced at a rate comparable to the modern rate of organic carbon burial in marine sediments. Therefore, it could provide a novel explanation for the presence of extremely low-13C kerogens in Late Archean sediments.</p>
<p><a href="http://geology.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/29/11/1003" rel="nofollow">http://geology.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/29/11/1003</a></p>
<p>Titan  answers some open problems </p>
<p><a href="http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object/index.cfm?fobjectid=36370" rel="nofollow">http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object/index.cfm?fobjectid=36370</a></p>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/17/the-trade-winds-drive-the-enso/#comment-88504</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 05:06:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=5702#comment-88504</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[tallbloke (17:14:30) :
&lt;i&gt;I’ll accept your admonition and seek more info. &lt;/i&gt;
There is a fair amount of stuff at
http://www.fas.org/irp/imint/docs/rst/
especially Section 19, from which this has been lifted:
http://www.leif.org/research/Changes%20in%20Earth&#039;s%20Atmosphere.png]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tallbloke (17:14:30) :<br />
<i>I’ll accept your admonition and seek more info. </i><br />
There is a fair amount of stuff at<br />
<a href="http://www.fas.org/irp/imint/docs/rst/" rel="nofollow">http://www.fas.org/irp/imint/docs/rst/</a><br />
especially Section 19, from which this has been lifted:<br />
<a href="http://www.leif.org/research/Changes%20in%20Earth&#039;s%20Atmosphere.png" rel="nofollow">http://www.leif.org/research/Changes%20in%20Earth&#039;s%20Atmosphere.png</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ron de Haan</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/17/the-trade-winds-drive-the-enso/#comment-88501</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ron de Haan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 05:02:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=5702#comment-88501</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Leif,
He does not specify the mechanism.
He is just looking for an external source to explain the super el nino from 1998.
The PDF and graphs can be downloaded from the article at ICECAP.US
I think we can conclude that it&#039;s a long shot.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leif,<br />
He does not specify the mechanism.<br />
He is just looking for an external source to explain the super el nino from 1998.<br />
The PDF and graphs can be downloaded from the article at ICECAP.US<br />
I think we can conclude that it&#8217;s a long shot.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/17/the-trade-winds-drive-the-enso/#comment-88464</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 04:12:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=5702#comment-88464</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[tallbloke (17:14:30) :
&lt;i&gt;You’d think the earth might generate quite a lot of it’s own juice though, with it having a spinning iron core and all that electrolyte in the oceans.&lt;/i&gt;
It does as far a the core is concerned. That is what creates the main magnetic field of the Earth. The contribution from the oceans is minuscule [not measurable on a global scale]. There are internal currents in the Earth about 300 km down and in the oceans corresponding to the external daily variation of the geomagnetic field [this is about 1/1000] of the main field. These currents are permanent [because the Sun always shines somewhere] and stay fixed in relation to the Sun, the Earth rotating under&#039;above them. More here: http://www.leif.org/research/CAWSES%20-%20Sunspots.pdf
But the effect on climate and atmosphere is negligible. Of course, you&#039;ll always find &#039;electric universe&#039; enthusiasts that have other ideas, but that is pseudo-science.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tallbloke (17:14:30) :<br />
<i>You’d think the earth might generate quite a lot of it’s own juice though, with it having a spinning iron core and all that electrolyte in the oceans.</i><br />
It does as far a the core is concerned. That is what creates the main magnetic field of the Earth. The contribution from the oceans is minuscule [not measurable on a global scale]. There are internal currents in the Earth about 300 km down and in the oceans corresponding to the external daily variation of the geomagnetic field [this is about 1/1000] of the main field. These currents are permanent [because the Sun always shines somewhere] and stay fixed in relation to the Sun, the Earth rotating under&#8217;above them. More here: <a href="http://www.leif.org/research/CAWSES%20-%20Sunspots.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.leif.org/research/CAWSES%20-%20Sunspots.pdf</a><br />
But the effect on climate and atmosphere is negligible. Of course, you&#8217;ll always find &#8216;electric universe&#8217; enthusiasts that have other ideas, but that is pseudo-science.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: tallbloke</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/17/the-trade-winds-drive-the-enso/#comment-88352</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tallbloke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 01:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=5702#comment-88352</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Leif, yes, it was mostly Xiao&#039;s work which was in the article you linked.
I&#039;ll accept your admonition and seek more info. A lot of stuff written on the early earth seems conflicting and outdated, it&#039;s hard to know what&#039;s the real deal.

I guess David will have to find a different source for his equatorial electrical currents then. You&#039;d think the earth might generate quite a lot of it&#039;s own juice though, with it having a spinning iron core and all that electrolyte in the oceans.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leif, yes, it was mostly Xiao&#8217;s work which was in the article you linked.<br />
I&#8217;ll accept your admonition and seek more info. A lot of stuff written on the early earth seems conflicting and outdated, it&#8217;s hard to know what&#8217;s the real deal.</p>
<p>I guess David will have to find a different source for his equatorial electrical currents then. You&#8217;d think the earth might generate quite a lot of it&#8217;s own juice though, with it having a spinning iron core and all that electrolyte in the oceans.</p>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/17/the-trade-winds-drive-the-enso/#comment-88316</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 00:18:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=5702#comment-88316</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[tallbloke (15:03:39) :
&lt;i&gt;Kastings model estimates 10-200x todays levels. Quite a range. Only two datapoints beyond 1/2 billion years ago&lt;/i&gt;

same range here:
Nature 425, 279-282 (18 September 2003) &#124; doi:10.1038/nature01902;
High CO2 levels in the Proterozoic atmosphere estimated from analyses of individual microfossils
Alan J. Kaufman &amp; Shuhai Xiao

Solar luminosity on the early Earth was significantly lower than today. Therefore, solar luminosity models suggest that, in the atmosphere of the early Earth, the concentration of greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide and methane must have been much higher1, 2. However, empirical estimates of Proterozoic levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations have not hitherto been available. Here we present ion microprobe analyses of the carbon isotopes in individual organic-walled microfossils extracted from a Proterozoic ( 1.4-gigayear-old) shale in North China. Calculated magnitudes of the carbon isotope fractionation in these large, morphologically complex microfossils suggest elevated levels of carbon dioxide in the ancient atmosphere—between 10 and 200 times the present atmospheric level. Our results indicate that carbon dioxide was an important greenhouse gas during periods of lower solar luminosity, probably dominating over methane after the atmosphere and hydrosphere became pervasively oxygenated between 2 and 2.2 gigayears ago.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tallbloke (15:03:39) :<br />
<i>Kastings model estimates 10-200x todays levels. Quite a range. Only two datapoints beyond 1/2 billion years ago</i></p>
<p>same range here:<br />
Nature 425, 279-282 (18 September 2003) | doi:10.1038/nature01902;<br />
High CO2 levels in the Proterozoic atmosphere estimated from analyses of individual microfossils<br />
Alan J. Kaufman &amp; Shuhai Xiao</p>
<p>Solar luminosity on the early Earth was significantly lower than today. Therefore, solar luminosity models suggest that, in the atmosphere of the early Earth, the concentration of greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide and methane must have been much higher1, 2. However, empirical estimates of Proterozoic levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations have not hitherto been available. Here we present ion microprobe analyses of the carbon isotopes in individual organic-walled microfossils extracted from a Proterozoic ( 1.4-gigayear-old) shale in North China. Calculated magnitudes of the carbon isotope fractionation in these large, morphologically complex microfossils suggest elevated levels of carbon dioxide in the ancient atmosphere—between 10 and 200 times the present atmospheric level. Our results indicate that carbon dioxide was an important greenhouse gas during periods of lower solar luminosity, probably dominating over methane after the atmosphere and hydrosphere became pervasively oxygenated between 2 and 2.2 gigayears ago.</p>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/17/the-trade-winds-drive-the-enso/#comment-88310</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 00:04:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=5702#comment-88310</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[tallbloke (15:03:39) :
&lt;i&gt;Thanks Leif, informative as always. Kastings model estimates 10-200x todays levels. Quite a range. Only two datapoints beyond 1/2 billion years ago&lt;/i&gt;
No. there are many other pieces of evidence. I don&#039;t feel like doing ALL the work here. Do a little research yourself.

&lt;i&gt;Please do give some feedback to Volantis’ post above. I know David and he is a deep thinker.&lt;/i&gt;
Unfortunately the post is flawed in so many places that it pains me to go through them all. Just a very glaring one: the Sun is not positively charged [surplus of ions] and the Earth is not negatively charged [surplus of electrons]. The electric force is about1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stronger than gravity and the slightest imbalance would wreak havoc with the Earth&#039;s orbit.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tallbloke (15:03:39) :<br />
<i>Thanks Leif, informative as always. Kastings model estimates 10-200x todays levels. Quite a range. Only two datapoints beyond 1/2 billion years ago</i><br />
No. there are many other pieces of evidence. I don&#8217;t feel like doing ALL the work here. Do a little research yourself.</p>
<p><i>Please do give some feedback to Volantis’ post above. I know David and he is a deep thinker.</i><br />
Unfortunately the post is flawed in so many places that it pains me to go through them all. Just a very glaring one: the Sun is not positively charged [surplus of ions] and the Earth is not negatively charged [surplus of electrons]. The electric force is about1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stronger than gravity and the slightest imbalance would wreak havoc with the Earth&#8217;s orbit.</p>
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		<title>By: tallbloke</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/17/the-trade-winds-drive-the-enso/#comment-88281</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tallbloke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:03:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=5702#comment-88281</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Leif, informative as always. Kastings model estimates 10-200x todays levels. Quite a range. Only two datapoints beyond 1/2 billion years ago, and one suggests the level was at the lower end of the range through a soil sample study. If there was a lot more volcanic activity on the young earth blocking out a weaker sun, it seems to me something else was keeping the oceans from freezing. What could it be? Geothermal heating the water from below? Lots more methane? Volcanic aerosols trapping geothermal heat?

Please do give some feedback to Volantis&#039; post above. I know David and he is a deep thinker.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Leif, informative as always. Kastings model estimates 10-200x todays levels. Quite a range. Only two datapoints beyond 1/2 billion years ago, and one suggests the level was at the lower end of the range through a soil sample study. If there was a lot more volcanic activity on the young earth blocking out a weaker sun, it seems to me something else was keeping the oceans from freezing. What could it be? Geothermal heating the water from below? Lots more methane? Volcanic aerosols trapping geothermal heat?</p>
<p>Please do give some feedback to Volantis&#8217; post above. I know David and he is a deep thinker.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/17/the-trade-winds-drive-the-enso/#comment-88248</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:22:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=5702#comment-88248</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[gary gulrud (13:20:05) :
&lt;i&gt;silly, indefensible and given in a supercilious tone obstructing other’s discussions, &lt;/i&gt;
you are true to form.

gary gulrud (13:31:57) :
&lt;i&gt;Let’s see, we have a recurrance of global temps rising to 72 degrees F&lt;/i&gt;
Global temps were once 70C, and of course due to CO2.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>gary gulrud (13:20:05) :<br />
<i>silly, indefensible and given in a supercilious tone obstructing other’s discussions, </i><br />
you are true to form.</p>
<p>gary gulrud (13:31:57) :<br />
<i>Let’s see, we have a recurrance of global temps rising to 72 degrees F</i><br />
Global temps were once 70C, and of course due to CO2.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/17/the-trade-winds-drive-the-enso/#comment-88246</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:19:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=5702#comment-88246</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[tallbloke (11:37:31) :
&lt;i&gt;Ah, ok, we’ve moved from your “today’s value”, to the “pre-industrial value”; 25% lower.&lt;/i&gt;
In order to have a stable base value. Today&#039;s value changes all the time as does the temperature and there is debate as to what is due to what. Going pre-industrial removes us from that.

&lt;i&gt;I’m left wondering what evidence we have for co2 levels billions of years ago. Is it a theoretical value based on an assumption that the temperature of the earth was around the same as today’s?&lt;/i&gt;
There is a good body of evidence. One of the simpler one is that the Sun was 30% dimmer back then and we know we had liquid water, because there a sedimentary rocks from then. So we need a greenhouse effect to account for that.

Here is one account: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/09/030918092804.htm

&lt;i&gt;I’ll assume that my maths was right after all since you seem to have dropped the issue. :-)&lt;/i&gt;
I may have misunderstood you, as you started out with 20ppm and I thought you were talking about future levels up from there. If it was just to tell us how much 2^5 and 2^6 was, then everything looks fine.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tallbloke (11:37:31) :<br />
<i>Ah, ok, we’ve moved from your “today’s value”, to the “pre-industrial value”; 25% lower.</i><br />
In order to have a stable base value. Today&#8217;s value changes all the time as does the temperature and there is debate as to what is due to what. Going pre-industrial removes us from that.</p>
<p><i>I’m left wondering what evidence we have for co2 levels billions of years ago. Is it a theoretical value based on an assumption that the temperature of the earth was around the same as today’s?</i><br />
There is a good body of evidence. One of the simpler one is that the Sun was 30% dimmer back then and we know we had liquid water, because there a sedimentary rocks from then. So we need a greenhouse effect to account for that.</p>
<p>Here is one account: <a href="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/09/030918092804.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/09/030918092804.htm</a></p>
<p><i>I’ll assume that my maths was right after all since you seem to have dropped the issue. :-)</i><br />
I may have misunderstood you, as you started out with 20ppm and I thought you were talking about future levels up from there. If it was just to tell us how much 2^5 and 2^6 was, then everything looks fine.</p>
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		<title>By: gary gulrud</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/17/the-trade-winds-drive-the-enso/#comment-88215</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gary gulrud]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:31:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=5702#comment-88215</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Let&#039;s see,   we have a recurrance of global temps rising to 72 degrees F,  high CO2 counts an order of magnitude greater than today, and singular continental formation/ocean formations.  The cause?  Why CO2, obviously.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s see,   we have a recurrance of global temps rising to 72 degrees F,  high CO2 counts an order of magnitude greater than today, and singular continental formation/ocean formations.  The cause?  Why CO2, obviously.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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