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	<title>Comments on: How not to measure temperature, part 81 &#8211; roofing the past in Columbia</title>
	<atom:link href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/07/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-81-roofing-the-past-in-columbia/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/07/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-81-roofing-the-past-in-columbia/</link>
	<description>The world&#039;s most viewed site on global warming and climate change</description>
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		<title>By: Arapiles</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/07/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-81-roofing-the-past-in-columbia/#comment-83513</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Arapiles]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 07:45:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=5465#comment-83513</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I worked for a Co. that built an insert for a Antonov An 124 transport aircraft, .... the owner of the Company offered the equipment and a contract lease on a An 124 to the Australian Government, .... as the boss decided that it was better to let the idiots burn.&quot;

To say that your post is inappropriate, tasteless and heartless  would be the understatement of the century  ... &quot;let the idiots burn&quot; ... is your boss applauding the death of hundreds of Australians, including children?  Are YOU applauding the death of hundreds of Australians, including children?

And for the record we have heavy lift helicopter fire bombers for fighting fires and they work better than any flipping Antonov would.

And the complete idiocy of the comment is best illustrated by the vague reference to &quot;the Australian Government&quot; - what &quot;Australian Government&quot; would that be, given that fire fighting is run by non-government entities on a State basis?  Sadly I suspect the comment reflects the general quality of the blog and the people adding their comments.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I worked for a Co. that built an insert for a Antonov An 124 transport aircraft, &#8230;. the owner of the Company offered the equipment and a contract lease on a An 124 to the Australian Government, &#8230;. as the boss decided that it was better to let the idiots burn.&#8221;</p>
<p>To say that your post is inappropriate, tasteless and heartless  would be the understatement of the century  &#8230; &#8220;let the idiots burn&#8221; &#8230; is your boss applauding the death of hundreds of Australians, including children?  Are YOU applauding the death of hundreds of Australians, including children?</p>
<p>And for the record we have heavy lift helicopter fire bombers for fighting fires and they work better than any flipping Antonov would.</p>
<p>And the complete idiocy of the comment is best illustrated by the vague reference to &#8220;the Australian Government&#8221; &#8211; what &#8220;Australian Government&#8221; would that be, given that fire fighting is run by non-government entities on a State basis?  Sadly I suspect the comment reflects the general quality of the blog and the people adding their comments.</p>
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		<title>By: Will</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/07/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-81-roofing-the-past-in-columbia/#comment-83317</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Will]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 18:41:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=5465#comment-83317</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m sure you have seen this: http://www.weather.gov/asos/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sure you have seen this: <a href="http://www.weather.gov/asos/" rel="nofollow">http://www.weather.gov/asos/</a></p>
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		<title>By: rpk</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/07/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-81-roofing-the-past-in-columbia/#comment-82658</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rpk]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 05:11:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=5465#comment-82658</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Problem with on a roof in those days....that thing is awfully close to that chimney...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Problem with on a roof in those days&#8230;.that thing is awfully close to that chimney&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: H.R.</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/07/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-81-roofing-the-past-in-columbia/#comment-82627</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[H.R.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 02:37:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=5465#comment-82627</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Note that the chimney is upwind (prevailing wind direction shown?) of the Stevenson screen in the photo of the U.S. Weather Bureau Office, Columbia SC. Circa 1915. It wouldn&#039;t surprise me a bit if there was another chimney on the other side of the building to heat the other side of the building.

My guess is that even 93 years ago, the recorded lows were not as low as actual temperatures.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note that the chimney is upwind (prevailing wind direction shown?) of the Stevenson screen in the photo of the U.S. Weather Bureau Office, Columbia SC. Circa 1915. It wouldn&#8217;t surprise me a bit if there was another chimney on the other side of the building to heat the other side of the building.</p>
<p>My guess is that even 93 years ago, the recorded lows were not as low as actual temperatures.</p>
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		<title>By: evanjones</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/07/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-81-roofing-the-past-in-columbia/#comment-82538</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[evanjones]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 21:15:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=5465#comment-82538</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There&#039;s also the simple &quot;100-foot rule&quot; used (or, unfortunately, not used) for a long time. 

That means you need to be 100 ft. (30 m.) away from heat sinks (pavement, buildings, etc.) and waste heat (air conditioning vents, motor traffic, heated buildings, etc.). Rooftops are a BIG no-no.

(A roadway retains and radiates heat; just look at some of those infrared photos sometime.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s also the simple &#8220;100-foot rule&#8221; used (or, unfortunately, not used) for a long time. </p>
<p>That means you need to be 100 ft. (30 m.) away from heat sinks (pavement, buildings, etc.) and waste heat (air conditioning vents, motor traffic, heated buildings, etc.). Rooftops are a BIG no-no.</p>
<p>(A roadway retains and radiates heat; just look at some of those infrared photos sometime.)</p>
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		<title>By: Sylvia</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/07/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-81-roofing-the-past-in-columbia/#comment-82526</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sylvia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 20:40:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=5465#comment-82526</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[john b &amp; evanjones, thank you for the links.  Will enjoy reading them while knitting the latest batch of mittens.  Found some humor already:  &quot;Special considerations will be made for areas with considerable snowfall and snow depth.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>john b &amp; evanjones, thank you for the links.  Will enjoy reading them while knitting the latest batch of mittens.  Found some humor already:  &#8220;Special considerations will be made for areas with considerable snowfall and snow depth.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: L Nettles</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/07/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-81-roofing-the-past-in-columbia/#comment-82513</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[L Nettles]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 19:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=5465#comment-82513</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here is a link to Stephen Doty&#039;s history of the Columbia SC weather stations.  (I notice that the link has changed so that on one listed in the surfacestations resources doesn&#039;t work.  The new link to the histories is http://mrcc.sws.uiuc.edu/FORTS/histories1.jsp )

http://mrcc.sws.uiuc.edu/FORTS/histories/SC_Columbia_Doty.pdf]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a link to Stephen Doty&#8217;s history of the Columbia SC weather stations.  (I notice that the link has changed so that on one listed in the surfacestations resources doesn&#8217;t work.  The new link to the histories is <a href="http://mrcc.sws.uiuc.edu/FORTS/histories1.jsp" rel="nofollow">http://mrcc.sws.uiuc.edu/FORTS/histories1.jsp</a> )</p>
<p><a href="http://mrcc.sws.uiuc.edu/FORTS/histories/SC_Columbia_Doty.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://mrcc.sws.uiuc.edu/FORTS/histories/SC_Columbia_Doty.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Smokey</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/07/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-81-roofing-the-past-in-columbia/#comment-82508</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Smokey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 19:18:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=5465#comment-82508</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;Pamela Gray&lt;/b&gt;,

Global warming as a cause of &lt;a href=&quot;http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd137/gorebot/Post-Glacial_Sea_Level.png&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; is what I was referring to. Sorry I didn&#039;t make myself more clear.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Pamela Gray</b>,</p>
<p>Global warming as a cause of <a href="http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd137/gorebot/Post-Glacial_Sea_Level.png" rel="nofollow">this</a> is what I was referring to. Sorry I didn&#8217;t make myself more clear.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Evans</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/07/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-81-roofing-the-past-in-columbia/#comment-82505</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Simon Evans]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 19:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=5465#comment-82505</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Smokey (10:58:32) :

&lt;i&gt;There is a crucial difference between global warming and AGW.

Global warming is acknowledged to exist. On the other hand, &lt;b&gt;AGW is unproven. It is only found in the fevered imaginations of computer modelers.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;

Er, no, it&#039;s in the minds of those with a basic understanding of the physics, including Roy Spencer and Richard Lindzen, for example. An understanding of the physics has nothing to do with modeling.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Smokey (10:58:32) :</p>
<p><i>There is a crucial difference between global warming and AGW.</p>
<p>Global warming is acknowledged to exist. On the other hand, <b>AGW is unproven. It is only found in the fevered imaginations of computer modelers.</b></i></p>
<p>Er, no, it&#8217;s in the minds of those with a basic understanding of the physics, including Roy Spencer and Richard Lindzen, for example. An understanding of the physics has nothing to do with modeling.</p>
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		<title>By: Pamela Gray</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/07/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-81-roofing-the-past-in-columbia/#comment-82504</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pamela Gray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 19:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=5465#comment-82504</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But Smokey, if there are areas on the planet that did not experience global warming, how can you say global warming exists?  If there are areas of the Arctic sea ice that have not experienced anomaly change, how can it be said that the Arctic is melting?  Global averages are like coming up with the global average for a kid&#039;s personality in order to predict future personalities.  Can&#039;t be done.  No two kids are alike.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But Smokey, if there are areas on the planet that did not experience global warming, how can you say global warming exists?  If there are areas of the Arctic sea ice that have not experienced anomaly change, how can it be said that the Arctic is melting?  Global averages are like coming up with the global average for a kid&#8217;s personality in order to predict future personalities.  Can&#8217;t be done.  No two kids are alike.</p>
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		<title>By: Smokey</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/07/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-81-roofing-the-past-in-columbia/#comment-82502</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Smokey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 18:58:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=5465#comment-82502</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There is a crucial difference between global warming and AGW.

Global warming is acknowledged to exist. On the other hand, AGW is unproven. It is only found in the fevered imaginations of computer modelers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a crucial difference between global warming and AGW.</p>
<p>Global warming is acknowledged to exist. On the other hand, AGW is unproven. It is only found in the fevered imaginations of computer modelers.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: y8</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/07/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-81-roofing-the-past-in-columbia/#comment-82490</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[y8]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 17:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=5465#comment-82490</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[“Climate and weather are two very different things which are measured using two very different timescales. These two concepts simply cannot be connected“, said Wilfand Friday at a roundtable conference in response to questions on climate warming posed by the Moscow Technical Baumann-University. 

The weather expert did admit that global warming is a real “undisputed fact”.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Climate and weather are two very different things which are measured using two very different timescales. These two concepts simply cannot be connected“, said Wilfand Friday at a roundtable conference in response to questions on climate warming posed by the Moscow Technical Baumann-University. </p>
<p>The weather expert did admit that global warming is a real “undisputed fact”.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Scott</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/07/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-81-roofing-the-past-in-columbia/#comment-82489</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ed Scott]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 17:58:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=5465#comment-82489</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What is the necessity of averaging local, regional, national and international global temperatures?  Isn&#039;t it now possible to read, by satellite, the emission spectrum the Earth and determine the average temperature?  Probably not.  I suspect that different regions of the Earth&#039;s surface emit radiation centered at different frequencies.  Does averaging the temperatures at the poles, the equator and all in between yield any useful information?

I have space on my house roof for a Stevenson&#039;s Screen, between the air conditioner and the wood-stove chimney.  There is adequate capacity in each of two computers capable of the running the GISS temperature adjustment algorerhythm necessary to meet the stringent temperature standards of astronomer Hansen.

Would averaging the temperature in the North Valley and the temperature in Death Valley provide a useful temperature?

Temperatures are local, not global.  Climates are regional, not global.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is the necessity of averaging local, regional, national and international global temperatures?  Isn&#8217;t it now possible to read, by satellite, the emission spectrum the Earth and determine the average temperature?  Probably not.  I suspect that different regions of the Earth&#8217;s surface emit radiation centered at different frequencies.  Does averaging the temperatures at the poles, the equator and all in between yield any useful information?</p>
<p>I have space on my house roof for a Stevenson&#8217;s Screen, between the air conditioner and the wood-stove chimney.  There is adequate capacity in each of two computers capable of the running the GISS temperature adjustment algorerhythm necessary to meet the stringent temperature standards of astronomer Hansen.</p>
<p>Would averaging the temperature in the North Valley and the temperature in Death Valley provide a useful temperature?</p>
<p>Temperatures are local, not global.  Climates are regional, not global.</p>
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		<title>By: y3</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/07/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-81-roofing-the-past-in-columbia/#comment-82488</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[y3]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 17:58:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=5465#comment-82488</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[evanjones (09:16:41) : 

As Mark Twain might have put it, there are three kinds of lies

Liars, damnliars, and outliers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>evanjones (09:16:41) : </p>
<p>As Mark Twain might have put it, there are three kinds of lies</p>
<p>Liars, damnliars, and outliers.</p>
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		<title>By: Pierre Gosselin</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/07/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-81-roofing-the-past-in-columbia/#comment-82485</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pierre Gosselin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 17:34:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=5465#comment-82485</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[WEATHER IS NOT CLIMATE!
FROM RIA Novosti
http://de.rian.ru/science/20090130/119895504.html

Translated from the German:

Expert says climate conclusions simply cannot be drawn based on weather fluctuations.

Moscow, 30 January (RIA Novosti). The Director of the Russian Hydrometeorological Center, Roman Wilfand, states that the recent changes in weather cannot be used to draw conclusions on global warming. He has reminded Moscovites not to draw any longterm extrapolations from the weather fluctuations in the Russian capital. 

&quot;Climate and weather are two very different things which are measured using two very different timescales. These two concepts simply cannot be connected“, said Wilfand Friday at a roundtable conference in response to questions on climate warming posed by the Moscow Technical Baumann-University. 

The weather expert did admit that global warming is a real &quot;undisputed fact&quot;. 

The Director of the Weather Service Centre cited the international UN expert panel for climate research (IPCC), who claims the temperature over the last 50 years has risen at a rate 0.13 degrees C per decade. This does not imply any linear trend with regards to temperature increase, said Wilfand. For example 2008 has been the coldest year since the start of the 21st century. 

Also, temperatures in various regions around the world have gone up at different rates, said the expert. As temperatures in Eastern Siberia and in the Far East have risen at a rate of 0.5 to 0.6 C per decade, it has only been 0.4 C in Western Siberia, said Wilfand. 

The greatest temperature increase of 2 to 3°C was registered in the region of the Karasee this decade.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WEATHER IS NOT CLIMATE!<br />
FROM RIA Novosti<br />
<a href="http://de.rian.ru/science/20090130/119895504.html" rel="nofollow">http://de.rian.ru/science/20090130/119895504.html</a></p>
<p>Translated from the German:</p>
<p>Expert says climate conclusions simply cannot be drawn based on weather fluctuations.</p>
<p>Moscow, 30 January (RIA Novosti). The Director of the Russian Hydrometeorological Center, Roman Wilfand, states that the recent changes in weather cannot be used to draw conclusions on global warming. He has reminded Moscovites not to draw any longterm extrapolations from the weather fluctuations in the Russian capital. </p>
<p>&#8220;Climate and weather are two very different things which are measured using two very different timescales. These two concepts simply cannot be connected“, said Wilfand Friday at a roundtable conference in response to questions on climate warming posed by the Moscow Technical Baumann-University. </p>
<p>The weather expert did admit that global warming is a real &#8220;undisputed fact&#8221;. </p>
<p>The Director of the Weather Service Centre cited the international UN expert panel for climate research (IPCC), who claims the temperature over the last 50 years has risen at a rate 0.13 degrees C per decade. This does not imply any linear trend with regards to temperature increase, said Wilfand. For example 2008 has been the coldest year since the start of the 21st century. </p>
<p>Also, temperatures in various regions around the world have gone up at different rates, said the expert. As temperatures in Eastern Siberia and in the Far East have risen at a rate of 0.5 to 0.6 C per decade, it has only been 0.4 C in Western Siberia, said Wilfand. </p>
<p>The greatest temperature increase of 2 to 3°C was registered in the region of the Karasee this decade.</p>
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