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	<title>Comments on: The new NASA solar goalpost: Cycle 24, maybe not so big</title>
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	<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/the-new-nasa-solar-goalpost-cycle-24-maybe-not-so-big/</link>
	<description>The world&#039;s most viewed site on global warming and climate change</description>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/the-new-nasa-solar-goalpost-cycle-24-maybe-not-so-big/#comment-90763</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 15:43:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4896#comment-90763</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kortom, dat hele 2012 is allemaal geklets in de ruimte en hebben en maken we ons zelf gek met al die mooie verhalen over maya&#039;s, poorten en wat nog meer zo zij. Het enigste wat ons mensen dus nog kan redden is een gewapende revolutie tegen alle hebzuchtige graaiers en uitzuigers. Laat liefde heersen via de revolutie. ♥]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kortom, dat hele 2012 is allemaal geklets in de ruimte en hebben en maken we ons zelf gek met al die mooie verhalen over maya&#8217;s, poorten en wat nog meer zo zij. Het enigste wat ons mensen dus nog kan redden is een gewapende revolutie tegen alle hebzuchtige graaiers en uitzuigers. Laat liefde heersen via de revolutie. ♥</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Joel Lanier</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/the-new-nasa-solar-goalpost-cycle-24-maybe-not-so-big/#comment-86424</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joel Lanier]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 20:19:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4896#comment-86424</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As a Meteorological Forecaster (37 years in the business), one thing I have learned, is that statistics are nice, but may not account for all the potential dynamics a system can throw our way.  How well we do as forecasters is a matter of time and spatial scales we are attempting to forecast, and our understanding of the forecastability of the system.   The devil is in the details.  Ever see a rain accumulation pattern forecasted in detail by a parameterized statistical model?  Statistics are fine, but only go so far in generating estimates of what is really going to happen.  In the case of our blank Sun, we may be learning something new that past statistical models do not yet understand.  This is a good thing.  Forecasting is frequently a humbling art.  We should  have patience, watch and learn...and have a little mercy on the guy trying to make sense of it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a Meteorological Forecaster (37 years in the business), one thing I have learned, is that statistics are nice, but may not account for all the potential dynamics a system can throw our way.  How well we do as forecasters is a matter of time and spatial scales we are attempting to forecast, and our understanding of the forecastability of the system.   The devil is in the details.  Ever see a rain accumulation pattern forecasted in detail by a parameterized statistical model?  Statistics are fine, but only go so far in generating estimates of what is really going to happen.  In the case of our blank Sun, we may be learning something new that past statistical models do not yet understand.  This is a good thing.  Forecasting is frequently a humbling art.  We should  have patience, watch and learn&#8230;and have a little mercy on the guy trying to make sense of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaeger</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/the-new-nasa-solar-goalpost-cycle-24-maybe-not-so-big/#comment-76055</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jaeger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4896#comment-76055</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: Tom&#039;s post on low Tropical Cyclone Energy (TCE), I was struck dumb after reading this news report a couple of weeks ago: &quot;Forecaster tips big cyclone season for [Queensland, Australia]&quot;:
   http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/07/2460962.htm

It contains this quote from long-range weather forecaster Hayden Walker:
   &quot;I base my forecasts on sunspot activity and there&#039;s certainly been an intense
    number of sunspot activities and this time through it&#039;s more prolific than normal,&quot;
    he said.

Huh?  Did I blink and miss these &quot;prolific&quot; sunspots?

His website can be found here:  http://www.worldweather.com.au
I&#039;m no expert, but it smells of pseudoscientific techobabble.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Tom&#8217;s post on low Tropical Cyclone Energy (TCE), I was struck dumb after reading this news report a couple of weeks ago: &#8220;Forecaster tips big cyclone season for [Queensland, Australia]&#8220;:<br />
   <a href="http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/07/2460962.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/07/2460962.htm</a></p>
<p>It contains this quote from long-range weather forecaster Hayden Walker:<br />
   &#8220;I base my forecasts on sunspot activity and there&#8217;s certainly been an intense<br />
    number of sunspot activities and this time through it&#8217;s more prolific than normal,&#8221;<br />
    he said.</p>
<p>Huh?  Did I blink and miss these &#8220;prolific&#8221; sunspots?</p>
<p>His website can be found here:  <a href="http://www.worldweather.com.au" rel="nofollow">http://www.worldweather.com.au</a><br />
I&#8217;m no expert, but it smells of pseudoscientific techobabble.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Ronayne</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/the-new-nasa-solar-goalpost-cycle-24-maybe-not-so-big/#comment-73015</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Ronayne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 02:27:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4896#comment-73015</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wrote a new Google search parameter which allowed me to identify additional Sunspot predictions by Dr. David Hathaway, from public websites, without finding too many false positives and/or duplicates. A total of eight (8) additional images were recovered and there are several more candidates to which I don&#039;t have access. New predictions were not issued every month and there was one period during NASA budget cuts then predictions stopped altogether. Here are the latest animated GIF archives and the new months which have been recovered. 

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:SSN_Predict_NASA_Pre2004.gif 
2001-04
2001-08 
2002-04  
2002-10

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:SSN_Predict_NASA.gif 
2004-03  
2005-06 
2007-09
2007-11

The newly recovered images for 2007 were a plus because that is the year when it became obvious that the old predictions were not working. If anyone is using my GIF files as a source for edited animations please take note. Remember, other than adding the images to an animated GIF, I have not edited the images in any way. Anyone using the predictions should reference the Wikimedia pages.

For some reason the Wayback Machine has not been doing a very good job of late, recording changes to Internet websites, which is why I have to go dumpster-diving via Google. There is a timed embargo on archived content but in the last few years the archiving process has not been as complete as it was in the past.

I will keep looking; nothing is ever completely deleted on the Internet.

Mike]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wrote a new Google search parameter which allowed me to identify additional Sunspot predictions by Dr. David Hathaway, from public websites, without finding too many false positives and/or duplicates. A total of eight (8) additional images were recovered and there are several more candidates to which I don&#8217;t have access. New predictions were not issued every month and there was one period during NASA budget cuts then predictions stopped altogether. Here are the latest animated GIF archives and the new months which have been recovered. </p>
<p><a href="http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:SSN_Predict_NASA_Pre2004.gif" rel="nofollow">http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:SSN_Predict_NASA_Pre2004.gif</a><br />
2001-04<br />
2001-08<br />
2002-04<br />
2002-10</p>
<p><a href="http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:SSN_Predict_NASA.gif" rel="nofollow">http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:SSN_Predict_NASA.gif</a><br />
2004-03<br />
2005-06<br />
2007-09<br />
2007-11</p>
<p>The newly recovered images for 2007 were a plus because that is the year when it became obvious that the old predictions were not working. If anyone is using my GIF files as a source for edited animations please take note. Remember, other than adding the images to an animated GIF, I have not edited the images in any way. Anyone using the predictions should reference the Wikimedia pages.</p>
<p>For some reason the Wayback Machine has not been doing a very good job of late, recording changes to Internet websites, which is why I have to go dumpster-diving via Google. There is a timed embargo on archived content but in the last few years the archiving process has not been as complete as it was in the past.</p>
<p>I will keep looking; nothing is ever completely deleted on the Internet.</p>
<p>Mike</p>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/the-new-nasa-solar-goalpost-cycle-24-maybe-not-so-big/#comment-72324</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4896#comment-72324</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Robert Bateman (12:13:44) :
&lt;i&gt;Maybe that is Livingston’s personal work?&lt;/i&gt;
It is. Bill will tel me tomorrow or so what the result was.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert Bateman (12:13:44) :<br />
<i>Maybe that is Livingston’s personal work?</i><br />
It is. Bill will tel me tomorrow or so what the result was.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Robert Bateman</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/the-new-nasa-solar-goalpost-cycle-24-maybe-not-so-big/#comment-72318</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Bateman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:13:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4896#comment-72318</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Can&#039;t see hide nor hair of 1010 today.
Tried the SOLIS data information, but couldn&#039;t find anywhere they keep the data on the Gauss reading for sunspots.
Maybe that is Livingston&#039;s personal work?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can&#8217;t see hide nor hair of 1010 today.<br />
Tried the SOLIS data information, but couldn&#8217;t find anywhere they keep the data on the Gauss reading for sunspots.<br />
Maybe that is Livingston&#8217;s personal work?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/the-new-nasa-solar-goalpost-cycle-24-maybe-not-so-big/#comment-72231</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:09:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4896#comment-72231</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[vukcevic (05:11:03) :
&lt;i&gt;Could you recommend one of your many papers with a detailed description of properties and events within HCS.
&lt;/i&gt;
Google &quot;heliospheric current sheet&quot; will point you to many papers [not all good].

A nice illustration of what the current sheet looks like in a meridional cut is Figure 1 of:
http://icrc2005.tifr.res.in/htm/PAPERS/SH34/jap-miyake-S-abs1-sh34-oral.pdf
Especially the solar maximum look [figure 1c] is often a surprise to people.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>vukcevic (05:11:03) :<br />
<i>Could you recommend one of your many papers with a detailed description of properties and events within HCS.<br />
</i><br />
Google &#8220;heliospheric current sheet&#8221; will point you to many papers [not all good].</p>
<p>A nice illustration of what the current sheet looks like in a meridional cut is Figure 1 of:<br />
<a href="http://icrc2005.tifr.res.in/htm/PAPERS/SH34/jap-miyake-S-abs1-sh34-oral.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://icrc2005.tifr.res.in/htm/PAPERS/SH34/jap-miyake-S-abs1-sh34-oral.pdf</a><br />
Especially the solar maximum look [figure 1c] is often a surprise to people.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dan McCune</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/the-new-nasa-solar-goalpost-cycle-24-maybe-not-so-big/#comment-72226</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan McCune]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4896#comment-72226</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s an interesting article about Ol&#039; Sol that came out on Friday.  It may provide a good topic for futher discussion and it&#039;s a wonder they didn&#039;t try to blame mankind as the cause.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,478024,00.html

It also has a link to  Hathaway&#039;s prediction last November.  I&#039;m surprised this article is still avaiable .
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/081107-new-sunspots.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s an interesting article about Ol&#8217; Sol that came out on Friday.  It may provide a good topic for futher discussion and it&#8217;s a wonder they didn&#8217;t try to blame mankind as the cause.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,478024,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,478024,00.html</a></p>
<p>It also has a link to  Hathaway&#8217;s prediction last November.  I&#8217;m surprised this article is still avaiable .<br />
<a href="http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/081107-new-sunspots.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/081107-new-sunspots.html</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/the-new-nasa-solar-goalpost-cycle-24-maybe-not-so-big/#comment-72223</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4896#comment-72223</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[vukcevic (05:11:03) :
&lt;i&gt;that magnetic loops provide a bidirectional link&lt;/i&gt;
The existence of bidirectionality is not interesting. We earthlings are planning to send a spacecraft into to Sun; there is a link from a planet to the Sun. The important thing is how much goes in to Sun compared to what goes out. If the former is minuscule enough it can [and must] be ignored in discussions of what makes the Sun tick.

&lt;i&gt;I have some reservation (goes against my logic) towards existence of an open magnetic field. &lt;/i&gt;
In science we often employ concepts that are illogical or known to be plainly wrong as long as they are useful. The &#039;solar system&#039; picture of an atom is a good example, or considering gravity to be a force. Same with &#039;open&#039; field lines [which do not exist]. 

&lt;i&gt;I assume that all lines of the Earth’s magnetic field close within its magnetosphere. Similarly, I would expect that solar wind and interplanetary magnetic fields would close somewhere within outer regions of the heliosphere, before the heliopause.&lt;/i&gt;
Your assumption is contradicted by direct observations. For the Earth, there are several pieces of evidence that the Earth&#039;s magnetic field leaks out of the magnetopshere:
1) the Svalgaard-Mansurov effect that shows that solar and terrestrial field lines are directly connected all the time
2) the importance of &#039;southward&#039; pointing interplanetary magnetic field in generation of magnetic storms and strong aurorae
3) the &#039;polar rain&#039; where particles from the Sun has direct access along connected field lines to one or the other polar cap depending on the direction of the IMF
4) direct spacecraft measurements [in the news lately - magnetic portals, etc].
That solar and Jovian field lines are connected [reaching out of the Jovian magnetosphere] is even an integral part of your own theory [appropriately modified to be physically plausible - i.e. abandoning the speed-of-light electromagnetic feedback].
Similarly, the solar wind magnetic field is connected with the galactic field, e.g. http://www.ias.ac.in/jarch/jaa/21/431-437.pdf



Could you recommend one of your many papers with a detailed description of properties and events within HCS.
Thanks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>vukcevic (05:11:03) :<br />
<i>that magnetic loops provide a bidirectional link</i><br />
The existence of bidirectionality is not interesting. We earthlings are planning to send a spacecraft into to Sun; there is a link from a planet to the Sun. The important thing is how much goes in to Sun compared to what goes out. If the former is minuscule enough it can [and must] be ignored in discussions of what makes the Sun tick.</p>
<p><i>I have some reservation (goes against my logic) towards existence of an open magnetic field. </i><br />
In science we often employ concepts that are illogical or known to be plainly wrong as long as they are useful. The &#8216;solar system&#8217; picture of an atom is a good example, or considering gravity to be a force. Same with &#8216;open&#8217; field lines [which do not exist]. </p>
<p><i>I assume that all lines of the Earth’s magnetic field close within its magnetosphere. Similarly, I would expect that solar wind and interplanetary magnetic fields would close somewhere within outer regions of the heliosphere, before the heliopause.</i><br />
Your assumption is contradicted by direct observations. For the Earth, there are several pieces of evidence that the Earth&#8217;s magnetic field leaks out of the magnetopshere:<br />
1) the Svalgaard-Mansurov effect that shows that solar and terrestrial field lines are directly connected all the time<br />
2) the importance of &#8216;southward&#8217; pointing interplanetary magnetic field in generation of magnetic storms and strong aurorae<br />
3) the &#8216;polar rain&#8217; where particles from the Sun has direct access along connected field lines to one or the other polar cap depending on the direction of the IMF<br />
4) direct spacecraft measurements [in the news lately - magnetic portals, etc].<br />
That solar and Jovian field lines are connected [reaching out of the Jovian magnetosphere] is even an integral part of your own theory [appropriately modified to be physically plausible - i.e. abandoning the speed-of-light electromagnetic feedback].<br />
Similarly, the solar wind magnetic field is connected with the galactic field, e.g. <a href="http://www.ias.ac.in/jarch/jaa/21/431-437.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.ias.ac.in/jarch/jaa/21/431-437.pdf</a></p>
<p>Could you recommend one of your many papers with a detailed description of properties and events within HCS.<br />
Thanks.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: vukcevic</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/the-new-nasa-solar-goalpost-cycle-24-maybe-not-so-big/#comment-72152</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vukcevic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 13:11:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4896#comment-72152</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Leif Svalgaard (04:09:21) : 
to
vukcevic (02:08:34) :
that loop has “has both feet on the Sun”
The loops are not part of the ‘regular’ solar wind. They are drawn out by CMEs. If there were no CMEs [like the situation near solar minima where the CME rate is very low] there would be no such loops. So the loops are a consequence of solar activity and not the cause of it.&lt;/i&gt;
Thanks for the note. I absolutely agree, intention was to imply that magnetic loops provide a bidirectional link (Ok, only in case of CME, avoiding the f word) between a magnetosphere and the Sun’s active regions. 
However at this point I am interested in a point you made in the previous post:
&lt;i&gt;Although most of the solar wind magnetic field is ‘open’ [extends to &#039;infinity&#039;], the magnetic field on CMEs [clouds] is closed [has both feet on the Sun]&lt;/i&gt;
I have some reservation (goes against my logic) towards existence of an open magnetic field. I assume that all lines of the Earth’s magnetic field close within its magnetosphere. Similarly, I would expect that solar wind and interplanetary magnetic fields would close somewhere within outer regions of the heliosphere, before the heliopause. 
Could you recommend one of your many papers with a detailed description of properties and events within HCS.
Thanks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Leif Svalgaard (04:09:21) :<br />
to<br />
vukcevic (02:08:34) :<br />
that loop has “has both feet on the Sun”<br />
The loops are not part of the ‘regular’ solar wind. They are drawn out by CMEs. If there were no CMEs [like the situation near solar minima where the CME rate is very low] there would be no such loops. So the loops are a consequence of solar activity and not the cause of it.</i><br />
Thanks for the note. I absolutely agree, intention was to imply that magnetic loops provide a bidirectional link (Ok, only in case of CME, avoiding the f word) between a magnetosphere and the Sun’s active regions.<br />
However at this point I am interested in a point you made in the previous post:<br />
<i>Although most of the solar wind magnetic field is ‘open’ [extends to 'infinity'], the magnetic field on CMEs [clouds] is closed [has both feet on the Sun]</i><br />
I have some reservation (goes against my logic) towards existence of an open magnetic field. I assume that all lines of the Earth’s magnetic field close within its magnetosphere. Similarly, I would expect that solar wind and interplanetary magnetic fields would close somewhere within outer regions of the heliosphere, before the heliopause.<br />
Could you recommend one of your many papers with a detailed description of properties and events within HCS.<br />
Thanks.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/the-new-nasa-solar-goalpost-cycle-24-maybe-not-so-big/#comment-72139</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:09:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4896#comment-72139</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[vukcevic (02:08:34) :
&lt;i&gt;that loop has “has both feet on the Sun”&lt;/i&gt;
The loops are not part of the &#039;regular&#039; solar wind. They are drawn out by CMEs. If there were no CMEs [like the situation near solar minima where the CME rate is very low] there would be no such loops. So the loops are a consequence of solar activity and not the cause of it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>vukcevic (02:08:34) :<br />
<i>that loop has “has both feet on the Sun”</i><br />
The loops are not part of the &#8216;regular&#8217; solar wind. They are drawn out by CMEs. If there were no CMEs [like the situation near solar minima where the CME rate is very low] there would be no such loops. So the loops are a consequence of solar activity and not the cause of it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: vukcevic</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/the-new-nasa-solar-goalpost-cycle-24-maybe-not-so-big/#comment-72130</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vukcevic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 10:08:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4896#comment-72130</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Leif Svalgaard (19:55:40) : 
to
vukcevic (13:27:16) :
the magnetic field on CMEs [clouds] is closed [has both feet on the Sun] and spiral inside the loop as the picture shows. Energetic particles will gyrate around the spiraling field lines and can reach us at much higher speeds than the Alfven speed as also cosmic rays can……….
There are cases where bodies in the magnetic field of another body react back. There are aurorae on Jupiter that are caused by Io interacting with Jupiter’s magnetic field. But in the case of the Heliomagnetic field, the Sun it the body that injects 99.99…9 % of the particles into the closed fields in the Heliosphere, not the planets, so any planetary effect would completely drown. In fact, we observe electrons going both ways in the closed loops: coming up one leg, going all the way out to the top of the loop, then continuing back to the sun down the other leg, turning around and repeating this many times. The same thing happens in the Earth’s Van Allen Belts. But all these particles do not constitute electrical currents and have nothing to do with the HCS. &lt;/i&gt;

Dr Svalgaard 
Thanks for the comments and the links. I am obviously guilty (among many other things) of using wrong terminology. The above explanation is precisely what I wonted confirmed, i.e. that loop has “has both feet on the Sun”, and the particles circulate within. I do understand that the magnetosphere do not inject anything into the loop. 
However, properties (be it electrical, magnetic, rate of spin, momentum, energy or whatever else) of the loop’s particles will surely change in some way when the loop hits magnetosphere. Current consensus may be that if there are such changes, they may not matter, those particles may not constitute electric current and they cannot initiate feedback, etc. However, the loop is a close circuit and there must be a change within its properties.
 In interest of peace and good will, I shall not mention f (feedback) word. Thanks again.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Leif Svalgaard (19:55:40) :<br />
to<br />
vukcevic (13:27:16) :<br />
the magnetic field on CMEs [clouds] is closed [has both feet on the Sun] and spiral inside the loop as the picture shows. Energetic particles will gyrate around the spiraling field lines and can reach us at much higher speeds than the Alfven speed as also cosmic rays can……….<br />
There are cases where bodies in the magnetic field of another body react back. There are aurorae on Jupiter that are caused by Io interacting with Jupiter’s magnetic field. But in the case of the Heliomagnetic field, the Sun it the body that injects 99.99…9 % of the particles into the closed fields in the Heliosphere, not the planets, so any planetary effect would completely drown. In fact, we observe electrons going both ways in the closed loops: coming up one leg, going all the way out to the top of the loop, then continuing back to the sun down the other leg, turning around and repeating this many times. The same thing happens in the Earth’s Van Allen Belts. But all these particles do not constitute electrical currents and have nothing to do with the HCS. </i></p>
<p>Dr Svalgaard<br />
Thanks for the comments and the links. I am obviously guilty (among many other things) of using wrong terminology. The above explanation is precisely what I wonted confirmed, i.e. that loop has “has both feet on the Sun”, and the particles circulate within. I do understand that the magnetosphere do not inject anything into the loop.<br />
However, properties (be it electrical, magnetic, rate of spin, momentum, energy or whatever else) of the loop’s particles will surely change in some way when the loop hits magnetosphere. Current consensus may be that if there are such changes, they may not matter, those particles may not constitute electric current and they cannot initiate feedback, etc. However, the loop is a close circuit and there must be a change within its properties.<br />
 In interest of peace and good will, I shall not mention f (feedback) word. Thanks again.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: maksimovich</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/the-new-nasa-solar-goalpost-cycle-24-maybe-not-so-big/#comment-72089</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[maksimovich]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 05:13:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4896#comment-72089</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The population of energetic particles in the heliosphere is modulated by the solar activity. At the solar minimum, the main sources of the energetic particles observed at 1 AU are:

1. The interstellar medium in the form of galactic cosmic rays observed at energies above 200 MeV for protons and above 3 MeV for electrons
2. The termination shock in the form of anomalous cosmic rays
3. The corotating interaction regions which accelerate electrons up to around 300 keV and ions up to a few MeV/nucleon; and
4. the Jovian magnetosphere that generates electrons observed at 1AU during quiet times in the range from a few hundreds keV to a few MeV.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The population of energetic particles in the heliosphere is modulated by the solar activity. At the solar minimum, the main sources of the energetic particles observed at 1 AU are:</p>
<p>1. The interstellar medium in the form of galactic cosmic rays observed at energies above 200 MeV for protons and above 3 MeV for electrons<br />
2. The termination shock in the form of anomalous cosmic rays<br />
3. The corotating interaction regions which accelerate electrons up to around 300 keV and ions up to a few MeV/nucleon; and<br />
4. the Jovian magnetosphere that generates electrons observed at 1AU during quiet times in the range from a few hundreds keV to a few MeV.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/the-new-nasa-solar-goalpost-cycle-24-maybe-not-so-big/#comment-72075</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 04:03:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4896#comment-72075</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[vukcevic (13:27:16) :
&lt;i&gt;If the graph shows a continuous loop, it follows that there is a close circuit current and an opportunity for a feedback.&lt;/i&gt;

Here are some observations of energetic particles from Jupiter:
http://www.ieap.uni-kiel.de/et/ag-heber/cospin/gallery.php

But, remember the main point: the Sun produces vastly more than Jupiter.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>vukcevic (13:27:16) :<br />
<i>If the graph shows a continuous loop, it follows that there is a close circuit current and an opportunity for a feedback.</i></p>
<p>Here are some observations of energetic particles from Jupiter:<br />
<a href="http://www.ieap.uni-kiel.de/et/ag-heber/cospin/gallery.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.ieap.uni-kiel.de/et/ag-heber/cospin/gallery.php</a></p>
<p>But, remember the main point: the Sun produces vastly more than Jupiter.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/the-new-nasa-solar-goalpost-cycle-24-maybe-not-so-big/#comment-72069</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:55:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4896#comment-72069</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[vukcevic (13:27:16) :
&lt;i&gt;As far as spiral is concerned the graph is a free copy of the Parkers spiral from NASA’s website:&lt;/i&gt;
The spiral shows the magnetic field lines, not the electric current.

&lt;i&gt;If the graph shows a continuous loop, it follows that there is a close circuit current and an opportunity for a feedback.&lt;/i&gt;
The curved lines are magnetic field lines. Although most of the solar wind magnetic field is &#039;open&#039; [extends to &#039;infinity&#039;], the magnetic field on CMEs [clouds] is closed [has both feet on the Sun] and spiral inside the loop as the picture shows. Energetic particles will gyrate around the spiraling field lines and can reach us at much higher speeds than the Alfven speed as also cosmic rays can, but these particles do not constitute a current [and certainly not the HCS] as they are accompanied by electrons and the whole ensemble is neutral [the protons can even capture some of the electrons and get a stream of neutral Hydrogen atoms as recently observed http://www.universetoday.com/2008/12/15/the-neutral-hydrogen-gun-a-new-solar-flare-phenomenon/ ]
If you want magnetospheres to feed something back to the Sun you need them to produce lots of very energetic particles and inject then into the closed magnetic fields of CMEs when they go by. Our spacecraft would have observed these if they exist and we don&#039;t see them.
There are cases where bodies in the magnetic field of another body react back. There are aurorae on Jupiter that are caused by Io interacting with Jupiter&#039;s magnetic field. But in the case of the Heliomagnetic field, the Sun it the body that injects 99.99...9 % of the particles into the closed fields in the Heliosphere, not the planets, so any planetary effect would completely drown. In fact, we observe electrons going both ways in the closed loops: coming up one leg, going all the way out to the top of the loop, then continuing back to the sun down the other leg, turning around and repeating this many times. The same thing happens in the Earth&#039;s Van Allen Belts. But all these particles do not constitute electrical currents and have nothing to do with the HCS. 
The important point is that whatever particles the magnetospheres produce or accelerate, the Sun makes many, many more, drowning out any planetary contributions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>vukcevic (13:27:16) :<br />
<i>As far as spiral is concerned the graph is a free copy of the Parkers spiral from NASA’s website:</i><br />
The spiral shows the magnetic field lines, not the electric current.</p>
<p><i>If the graph shows a continuous loop, it follows that there is a close circuit current and an opportunity for a feedback.</i><br />
The curved lines are magnetic field lines. Although most of the solar wind magnetic field is &#8216;open&#8217; [extends to 'infinity'], the magnetic field on CMEs [clouds] is closed [has both feet on the Sun] and spiral inside the loop as the picture shows. Energetic particles will gyrate around the spiraling field lines and can reach us at much higher speeds than the Alfven speed as also cosmic rays can, but these particles do not constitute a current [and certainly not the HCS] as they are accompanied by electrons and the whole ensemble is neutral [the protons can even capture some of the electrons and get a stream of neutral Hydrogen atoms as recently observed <a href="http://www.universetoday.com/2008/12/15/the-neutral-hydrogen-gun-a-new-solar-flare-phenomenon/" rel="nofollow">http://www.universetoday.com/2008/12/15/the-neutral-hydrogen-gun-a-new-solar-flare-phenomenon/</a> ]<br />
If you want magnetospheres to feed something back to the Sun you need them to produce lots of very energetic particles and inject then into the closed magnetic fields of CMEs when they go by. Our spacecraft would have observed these if they exist and we don&#8217;t see them.<br />
There are cases where bodies in the magnetic field of another body react back. There are aurorae on Jupiter that are caused by Io interacting with Jupiter&#8217;s magnetic field. But in the case of the Heliomagnetic field, the Sun it the body that injects 99.99&#8230;9 % of the particles into the closed fields in the Heliosphere, not the planets, so any planetary effect would completely drown. In fact, we observe electrons going both ways in the closed loops: coming up one leg, going all the way out to the top of the loop, then continuing back to the sun down the other leg, turning around and repeating this many times. The same thing happens in the Earth&#8217;s Van Allen Belts. But all these particles do not constitute electrical currents and have nothing to do with the HCS.<br />
The important point is that whatever particles the magnetospheres produce or accelerate, the Sun makes many, many more, drowning out any planetary contributions.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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