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	<title>Comments on: Surfacestations UK project getting started</title>
	<atom:link href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/surfacestations-uk-project-getting-started/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/surfacestations-uk-project-getting-started/</link>
	<description>The world&#039;s most viewed site on global warming and climate change</description>
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		<title>By: Hugo S</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/surfacestations-uk-project-getting-started/#comment-82684</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hugo S]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 10:42:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4911#comment-82684</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[good question still as above on 9th feb.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>good question still as above on 9th feb.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Tim C</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/surfacestations-uk-project-getting-started/#comment-81138</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim C]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 16:23:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4911#comment-81138</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Anyone know what has happened to the web site? 

Domain is registered, has plenty of time to go but wacv.co.uk has been 404 or security for some time now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone know what has happened to the web site? </p>
<p>Domain is registered, has plenty of time to go but wacv.co.uk has been 404 or security for some time now.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Paul Maynard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/surfacestations-uk-project-getting-started/#comment-71800</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul Maynard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 13:16:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4911#comment-71800</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[RE CET and ARMAGH

Re Phillip Bratby&#039;s comment.

I need to do some research but I think you will find that the CET is not continuous that is read from the same stations that have remained in the same places without change. It has been spliced from different &quot;continuous&quot; records over time. 

Whilst it is improbable that the Armagh record is also from exactly the same station, I think it has remained in the same place.

No doubt other readers can comment.

Regards]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE CET and ARMAGH</p>
<p>Re Phillip Bratby&#8217;s comment.</p>
<p>I need to do some research but I think you will find that the CET is not continuous that is read from the same stations that have remained in the same places without change. It has been spliced from different &#8220;continuous&#8221; records over time. </p>
<p>Whilst it is improbable that the Armagh record is also from exactly the same station, I think it has remained in the same place.</p>
<p>No doubt other readers can comment.</p>
<p>Regards</p>
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		<title>By: Neil Crafter</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/surfacestations-uk-project-getting-started/#comment-71594</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Neil Crafter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:34:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4911#comment-71594</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ray
That graph on station dropout is very illuminating, hopefully Anthony can do a post on it if he gets a spare minute. I think its very worthy of bringing to further attention, as Icecap obviously have. In this day an age you would have thought we would have been adding more stations to the worldwide network rather than dropping them off. Especially the mostly rural stations that have been dropped. Its a scandal!
Neil]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ray<br />
That graph on station dropout is very illuminating, hopefully Anthony can do a post on it if he gets a spare minute. I think its very worthy of bringing to further attention, as Icecap obviously have. In this day an age you would have thought we would have been adding more stations to the worldwide network rather than dropping them off. Especially the mostly rural stations that have been dropped. Its a scandal!<br />
Neil</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/surfacestations-uk-project-getting-started/#comment-71517</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 18:22:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4911#comment-71517</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Let&#039;s try again:

Raw and Adjusted : http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=debiltyj4.jpg

Adjustments (adj-raw) : http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=debiltadjustmentsic1.gif

an attempt at embedding:

&lt;a title=&#039;ImageShack - Image And Video Hosting&#039; href=&#039;http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=debiltyj4.jpg&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;a title=&#039;ImageShack - Image And Video Hosting&#039; href=&#039;http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=debiltadjustmentsic1.gif&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://g.imageshack.us/img249/debiltadjustmentsic1.gif/1/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s try again:</p>
<p>Raw and Adjusted : <a href="http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=debiltyj4.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=debiltyj4.jpg</a></p>
<p>Adjustments (adj-raw) : <a href="http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=debiltadjustmentsic1.gif" rel="nofollow">http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=debiltadjustmentsic1.gif</a></p>
<p>an attempt at embedding:</p>
<p><a title='ImageShack - Image And Video Hosting' href='http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=debiltyj4.jpg' rel="nofollow"></a></p>
<p><a title='ImageShack - Image And Video Hosting' href='http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=debiltadjustmentsic1.gif' rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://g.imageshack.us/img249/debiltadjustmentsic1.gif/1/" rel="nofollow"></a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/surfacestations-uk-project-getting-started/#comment-71468</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 16:07:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4911#comment-71468</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OK, done it...

Ladies and Gentlemen, the Netherlands is globally warmed by the Hansomatic AlGoreithm thusly:

[URL=http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=debiltadjustmentsic1.gif][IMG]http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/3707/debiltadjustmentsic1.th.gif[/IMG][/URL]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, done it&#8230;</p>
<p>Ladies and Gentlemen, the Netherlands is globally warmed by the Hansomatic AlGoreithm thusly:</p>
<p>[URL=http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=debiltadjustmentsic1.gif][IMG]http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/3707/debiltadjustmentsic1.th.gif[/IMG][/URL]</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/surfacestations-uk-project-getting-started/#comment-71463</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 15:45:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4911#comment-71463</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OK, the metadata for de bilt are:

pre-16/05/1950 - thermograph in large pagoda cabin 2.2m over a mown field
17/05/1950-28/06/1961 - thermograph in stevenson screen 2.2m above mown field (note downward step change in data)
29/06/1961-25/06/1993 - resistance measurement in stevenson screen 1.5m above mown field 
26/03/1993-present day - electric sensor in dish cabin 1.5m above mown field (note step up).

So, how did the Hansomatic do?

-1950 step not adjusted
-1961  change is not visible in data
-1993 step not adjusted
-artificial trend introduced

I&#039;ll try to do an adjustment graph a la Steve McI...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, the metadata for de bilt are:</p>
<p>pre-16/05/1950 &#8211; thermograph in large pagoda cabin 2.2m over a mown field<br />
17/05/1950-28/06/1961 &#8211; thermograph in stevenson screen 2.2m above mown field (note downward step change in data)<br />
29/06/1961-25/06/1993 &#8211; resistance measurement in stevenson screen 1.5m above mown field<br />
26/03/1993-present day &#8211; electric sensor in dish cabin 1.5m above mown field (note step up).</p>
<p>So, how did the Hansomatic do?</p>
<p>-1950 step not adjusted<br />
-1961  change is not visible in data<br />
-1993 step not adjusted<br />
-artificial trend introduced</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll try to do an adjustment graph a la Steve McI&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/surfacestations-uk-project-getting-started/#comment-71462</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 15:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4911#comment-71462</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OK, I&#039;ve worked it out...

Raw data 

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/work/gistemp/STATIONS//tmp.633062600003.1.1/station.gif

Data after Hansomatic adjustments

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/work/gistemp/STATIONS//tmp.633062600003.2.1/station.gif

Note the creation of a non-existent trend in 1880-1950.

So that&#039;s the Netherlands artificially warmed then...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, I&#8217;ve worked it out&#8230;</p>
<p>Raw data </p>
<p><a href="http://data.giss.nasa.gov/work/gistemp/STATIONS//tmp.633062600003.1.1/station.gif" rel="nofollow">http://data.giss.nasa.gov/work/gistemp/STATIONS//tmp.633062600003.1.1/station.gif</a></p>
<p>Data after Hansomatic adjustments</p>
<p><a href="http://data.giss.nasa.gov/work/gistemp/STATIONS//tmp.633062600003.2.1/station.gif" rel="nofollow">http://data.giss.nasa.gov/work/gistemp/STATIONS//tmp.633062600003.2.1/station.gif</a></p>
<p>Note the creation of a non-existent trend in 1880-1950.</p>
<p>So that&#8217;s the Netherlands artificially warmed then&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/surfacestations-uk-project-getting-started/#comment-71460</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 15:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4911#comment-71460</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[re. De Bilt,

spot the step change:

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/work/gistemp/STATIONS//tmp.633062600000.0.1/station.gif

how do you get the unadjusted data?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re. De Bilt,</p>
<p>spot the step change:</p>
<p><a href="http://data.giss.nasa.gov/work/gistemp/STATIONS//tmp.633062600000.0.1/station.gif" rel="nofollow">http://data.giss.nasa.gov/work/gistemp/STATIONS//tmp.633062600000.0.1/station.gif</a></p>
<p>how do you get the unadjusted data?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Alan the Brit</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/surfacestations-uk-project-getting-started/#comment-71442</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alan the Brit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:29:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4911#comment-71442</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Michael J Bentley:-)

Green used to mean naive &amp; gullible or inexperienced in the old days, now it means messianic!  Also the sailing expression &quot;a bit green around the gills&quot; used to refer to someone not used to sea travel, &amp; was about to throw up!  Was it not Cleopatra who said to Anthony in Shakespeare&#039;s Anthony &amp; Cleopatra, &quot;ah, my salad days, when I was green in judgement&quot;!  Says it all really.

Generally, I work in the west country, Devon/Cornwall/Somerset/Dorset.   If there is a list of stations available I would be happy to notify someone about any site visits I may be making so that I can be given a list of any nearby surface stations that could be photographed.

atb]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael J Bentley:-)</p>
<p>Green used to mean naive &amp; gullible or inexperienced in the old days, now it means messianic!  Also the sailing expression &#8220;a bit green around the gills&#8221; used to refer to someone not used to sea travel, &amp; was about to throw up!  Was it not Cleopatra who said to Anthony in Shakespeare&#8217;s Anthony &amp; Cleopatra, &#8220;ah, my salad days, when I was green in judgement&#8221;!  Says it all really.</p>
<p>Generally, I work in the west country, Devon/Cornwall/Somerset/Dorset.   If there is a list of stations available I would be happy to notify someone about any site visits I may be making so that I can be given a list of any nearby surface stations that could be photographed.</p>
<p>atb</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/surfacestations-uk-project-getting-started/#comment-71435</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 11:13:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4911#comment-71435</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[TonyB

Where about are you? My local paper is the Herald Express too and I often write to it about AGW

Tony mail me on  stargazer@planet3earth.co.uk]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TonyB</p>
<p>Where about are you? My local paper is the Herald Express too and I often write to it about AGW</p>
<p>Tony mail me on  <a href="mailto:stargazer@planet3earth.co.uk">stargazer@planet3earth.co.uk</a></p>
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		<title>By: Smokey</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/surfacestations-uk-project-getting-started/#comment-71378</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Smokey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 02:50:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4911#comment-71378</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;jack m&lt;/b&gt;:

I worked in a calibration/metrology lab, so I can answer question #2: Once a glass/mercury thermometer is properly calibrated, it really doesn&#039;t need re-calibration [unlike digital thermometers, which drift and are usually much less accurate than mercury thermometers].

If you find a good mercury thermometer [lots of places &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.novatech-usa.com/Glass-ASTM-Thermometers/10012C&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;sell them&lt;/a&gt;], a quick-and-dirty way to check accuracy [for a thermometer with a wide enough range] is to make an ice bath with 1/2 distilled water, and 1/2 distilled ice, crushed. 

Mix the ice/water bath thoroughly for 30 seconds, put the thermometer in and carefully stir it in the bath for a minute. 

After one minute, while holding the very top and keeping the bulb and the lower part of the thermometer in the water as much as possible [never touching the sides], you should read exactly 0 degrees C [or 32 degrees F if it&#039;s in Fahrenheit].

If the thermometer has the range, verify linearity by bringing a pot of distilled water to a boil, and repeating the reading. It should read 100 degrees C or 212 F, depending on type. Tests must be done at sea level.

The better scientific mercury thermometers are shipped factory calibrated, but you can do a search for a very inexpensive one by using the keywords &quot;thermometer, mercury&quot; and do your own calibration. 

It&#039;s fun keeping a daily log of temps using an accurate thermometer and comparing the result with your local GISS and NOAA record.

You can also buy a temperature datalogger from Anthony for under $60, which does automatic temp recording and downloads it into your computer: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.weathershop.com/USB1_temperature_logger.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;click&lt;/a&gt;

[Finally, don&#039;t forget to vote! &lt;a href=&quot;http://2008.weblogawards.org/polls/best-science-blog&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;click here&lt;/a&gt;. Thanks.]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>jack m</b>:</p>
<p>I worked in a calibration/metrology lab, so I can answer question #2: Once a glass/mercury thermometer is properly calibrated, it really doesn&#8217;t need re-calibration [unlike digital thermometers, which drift and are usually much less accurate than mercury thermometers].</p>
<p>If you find a good mercury thermometer [lots of places <a href="http://www.novatech-usa.com/Glass-ASTM-Thermometers/10012C" rel="nofollow">sell them</a>], a quick-and-dirty way to check accuracy [for a thermometer with a wide enough range] is to make an ice bath with 1/2 distilled water, and 1/2 distilled ice, crushed. </p>
<p>Mix the ice/water bath thoroughly for 30 seconds, put the thermometer in and carefully stir it in the bath for a minute. </p>
<p>After one minute, while holding the very top and keeping the bulb and the lower part of the thermometer in the water as much as possible [never touching the sides], you should read exactly 0 degrees C [or 32 degrees F if it's in Fahrenheit].</p>
<p>If the thermometer has the range, verify linearity by bringing a pot of distilled water to a boil, and repeating the reading. It should read 100 degrees C or 212 F, depending on type. Tests must be done at sea level.</p>
<p>The better scientific mercury thermometers are shipped factory calibrated, but you can do a search for a very inexpensive one by using the keywords &#8220;thermometer, mercury&#8221; and do your own calibration. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s fun keeping a daily log of temps using an accurate thermometer and comparing the result with your local GISS and NOAA record.</p>
<p>You can also buy a temperature datalogger from Anthony for under $60, which does automatic temp recording and downloads it into your computer: <a href="http://www.weathershop.com/USB1_temperature_logger.htm" rel="nofollow">click</a></p>
<p>[Finally, don't forget to vote! <a href="http://2008.weblogawards.org/polls/best-science-blog" rel="nofollow">click here</a>. Thanks.]</p>
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		<title>By: jack mosevich</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/surfacestations-uk-project-getting-started/#comment-71351</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jack mosevich]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 23:21:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4911#comment-71351</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Anthony (and others):  I have examined thermometers in retail stores and find discrepancies in their readings. This is not surprising as they are of dubious quality. This brings to mind 2 questions beyond siting:

1. Are thermometers used at surface stations ever checked for accuracy?
2. Are they ever calibrated if they are in error?
And who is responsible?( I know. this is a 3rd question)

It seems tome that this could be as serious a problem as siting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anthony (and others):  I have examined thermometers in retail stores and find discrepancies in their readings. This is not surprising as they are of dubious quality. This brings to mind 2 questions beyond siting:</p>
<p>1. Are thermometers used at surface stations ever checked for accuracy?<br />
2. Are they ever calibrated if they are in error?<br />
And who is responsible?( I know. this is a 3rd question)</p>
<p>It seems tome that this could be as serious a problem as siting.</p>
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		<title>By: TonyB</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/surfacestations-uk-project-getting-started/#comment-71347</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TonyB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 23:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4911#comment-71347</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Paul

Where about are you? My local paper is the Herald Express too and I often write to it about  AGW

TonyB]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul</p>
<p>Where about are you? My local paper is the Herald Express too and I often write to it about  AGW</p>
<p>TonyB</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Hearnden</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/08/surfacestations-uk-project-getting-started/#comment-71346</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Hearnden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:57:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4911#comment-71346</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve lived in Devon for more than forty years. It was colder (as in lowest minima) in winters 1997, 1987, 1985, 1984, 1981 and 1979 than this year. So, where this &#039;coldest for forty years&#039; comes from I don&#039;t know. 

&#039;Coldest for at least ten years&#039; would put it better.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve lived in Devon for more than forty years. It was colder (as in lowest minima) in winters 1997, 1987, 1985, 1984, 1981 and 1979 than this year. So, where this &#8216;coldest for forty years&#8217; comes from I don&#8217;t know. </p>
<p>&#8216;Coldest for at least ten years&#8217; would put it better.</p>
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