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	<title>Comments on: Scientists warn Christmas lights harm the planet</title>
	<atom:link href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/23/scientists-warn-christmas-lights-harm-the-planet/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/23/scientists-warn-christmas-lights-harm-the-planet/</link>
	<description>The world&#039;s most viewed site on global warming and climate change</description>
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		<title>By: Holy smoke</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/23/scientists-warn-christmas-lights-harm-the-planet/#comment-67662</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Holy smoke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 09:20:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4665#comment-67662</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you can&#039;t afford xmas lights no doubt made in and transported from China - then have a bonfire instead. Look at what global warming nutters want to do to the city where we live.
www.palmerston-north.info]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you can&#8217;t afford xmas lights no doubt made in and transported from China &#8211; then have a bonfire instead. Look at what global warming nutters want to do to the city where we live.<br />
<a href="http://www.palmerston-north.info" rel="nofollow">http://www.palmerston-north.info</a></p>
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		<title>By: robert trout</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/23/scientists-warn-christmas-lights-harm-the-planet/#comment-67103</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[robert trout]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 21:08:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4665#comment-67103</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Except for the trivial amount of light radiated into space, energy used to light ends up as heat. You either heat with lights or your heating plant. At xmas most of the energy for lighting is a proxy for heating - ie no net expense.

Among the exceptions are: 
- southern hemisphere at xmas: Australia may be one of the few places in which using more efficient bulbs may help because a large amount of energy is used for air conditioning and very little for heating.
- exterior lights; these do not heat in any obviously useful way.

Most analyses of the savings from high efficiency bulbs that i have seen ignore the savings from parasitic heating.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Except for the trivial amount of light radiated into space, energy used to light ends up as heat. You either heat with lights or your heating plant. At xmas most of the energy for lighting is a proxy for heating &#8211; ie no net expense.</p>
<p>Among the exceptions are:<br />
- southern hemisphere at xmas: Australia may be one of the few places in which using more efficient bulbs may help because a large amount of energy is used for air conditioning and very little for heating.<br />
- exterior lights; these do not heat in any obviously useful way.</p>
<p>Most analyses of the savings from high efficiency bulbs that i have seen ignore the savings from parasitic heating.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Bryant</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/23/scientists-warn-christmas-lights-harm-the-planet/#comment-67026</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Bryant]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 13:11:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4665#comment-67026</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow, that is a very good article Smokey. I have no doubt that America is flirting with ecosocialism. I hope the American people will see that this &quot;experiment&quot; is not working before we lose all our rights.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, that is a very good article Smokey. I have no doubt that America is flirting with ecosocialism. I hope the American people will see that this &#8220;experiment&#8221; is not working before we lose all our rights.</p>
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		<title>By: Smokey</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/23/scientists-warn-christmas-lights-harm-the-planet/#comment-67015</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Smokey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 12:31:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4665#comment-67015</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Don&#039;t know if this is on topic or not. Good article, though:

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/santa-klaus-takes-on-global-warming]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t know if this is on topic or not. Good article, though:</p>
<p><a href="http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/santa-klaus-takes-on-global-warming" rel="nofollow">http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/santa-klaus-takes-on-global-warming</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bill Junga</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/23/scientists-warn-christmas-lights-harm-the-planet/#comment-66807</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill Junga]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 05:15:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4665#comment-66807</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Merry Christmas Everybody
I came back to add this statement about the following: &quot;Scientists say Christmas lights....&quot; What I would like to know and would like to have reported is just how many scientists are actually saying this statement and just what percentage of the total number of scientists counting not only their field of study but all scientists from aerospace scientists to zoologists.
I think it is only a handful of &quot;scientists&quot; at most, with a few fingers left over.
Trace scientists if you will! LOL!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Merry Christmas Everybody<br />
I came back to add this statement about the following: &#8220;Scientists say Christmas lights&#8230;.&#8221; What I would like to know and would like to have reported is just how many scientists are actually saying this statement and just what percentage of the total number of scientists counting not only their field of study but all scientists from aerospace scientists to zoologists.<br />
I think it is only a handful of &#8220;scientists&#8221; at most, with a few fingers left over.<br />
Trace scientists if you will! LOL!</p>
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		<title>By: George E. Smith</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/23/scientists-warn-christmas-lights-harm-the-planet/#comment-66758</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[George E. Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 21:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4665#comment-66758</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;&quot;  Mike Borgelt (18:54:24) : 

I had cause to try to deal with the CSIRO a few years ago. Pretty much a sheltered workshop.

George E. Smith (16:02:18) :

“As for that free (one day) thermo-nuclear energy; as they say the energy of the future; and always will be.

Better hope it never happens in your lifetime; unless you really want to see this planet get screwed up by too much energy consumption. today’s “global warming” will be peanuts compared to a thermonuclear future; just fancy; extinction by slow Hydrogen bomb.”

Really. I hope you are kidding. BTW Google “Bussard fusion” The fusion future may be about to happen. Only it isn’t “thermo”  &quot;&quot;

Not kidding at all Mike.  Atleast now with apparent energy shortages and increasing demand an rising costs, people are at least somewhat concerned about energy efficiency.

If we suddenly had an essentially limitless source of energy that was cheap; the world would go hogwild, and wasteful, and at some point, our global total usage of the ultimate fossil fuel, would start to put a real climate change burden on the planet.

I have no problem with the concept of the present world population being elevated to a decent standard of living and healthy living at that; but the complete removal of any limits to human population explosion, would eventually doom this planet, as far as humans are concerned.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8221;  Mike Borgelt (18:54:24) : </p>
<p>I had cause to try to deal with the CSIRO a few years ago. Pretty much a sheltered workshop.</p>
<p>George E. Smith (16:02:18) :</p>
<p>“As for that free (one day) thermo-nuclear energy; as they say the energy of the future; and always will be.</p>
<p>Better hope it never happens in your lifetime; unless you really want to see this planet get screwed up by too much energy consumption. today’s “global warming” will be peanuts compared to a thermonuclear future; just fancy; extinction by slow Hydrogen bomb.”</p>
<p>Really. I hope you are kidding. BTW Google “Bussard fusion” The fusion future may be about to happen. Only it isn’t “thermo”  &#8220;&#8221;</p>
<p>Not kidding at all Mike.  Atleast now with apparent energy shortages and increasing demand an rising costs, people are at least somewhat concerned about energy efficiency.</p>
<p>If we suddenly had an essentially limitless source of energy that was cheap; the world would go hogwild, and wasteful, and at some point, our global total usage of the ultimate fossil fuel, would start to put a real climate change burden on the planet.</p>
<p>I have no problem with the concept of the present world population being elevated to a decent standard of living and healthy living at that; but the complete removal of any limits to human population explosion, would eventually doom this planet, as far as humans are concerned.</p>
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		<title>By: Graeme Rodaughan</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/23/scientists-warn-christmas-lights-harm-the-planet/#comment-66745</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Graeme Rodaughan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 20:29:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4665#comment-66745</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[deadwood (06:35:48) : 

&lt;i&gt;In the clean, green, PNW we use only renewable hydroelectric power for our Christmas lights. 

Oops, forgot, it seems hydro is not clean, green, or renewable in Washington State. It got left off the list when the watermelons mandated what types of power were to be considered sustainable.&lt;/i&gt;

You have to DAM rivers to create Hydro - and DAMS are just plain wrong.

Beware the path of the Heretic. You&#039;ll burn one day! Burn I tell you! - mark my words...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>deadwood (06:35:48) : </p>
<p><i>In the clean, green, PNW we use only renewable hydroelectric power for our Christmas lights. </p>
<p>Oops, forgot, it seems hydro is not clean, green, or renewable in Washington State. It got left off the list when the watermelons mandated what types of power were to be considered sustainable.</i></p>
<p>You have to DAM rivers to create Hydro &#8211; and DAMS are just plain wrong.</p>
<p>Beware the path of the Heretic. You&#8217;ll burn one day! Burn I tell you! &#8211; mark my words&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ric Werme</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/23/scientists-warn-christmas-lights-harm-the-planet/#comment-66703</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ric Werme]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 14:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4665#comment-66703</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Annette Huang (04:04:24) :

&lt;blockquote&gt;
As usual, New Zealand’s off the map - but it might have shown a light or two glimmering in the major cities.

&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Never fear, the the image Anthony used was cropped by an anti-New Zealand zealot.

The link on the image, http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020810.html takes you to the &quot;Astronomy Picture of the Day&quot; and a link to a 2400x1200 pixel version.  Both include Hawaii to New Zealand in all their 2002 glory.

 evanjones (22:09:27) :

&lt;blockquote&gt;
I notice that most of the places without lights are hellholes I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemies.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Ah, spoken like a true Hew Yorker.  :-)  On a ski trip to Vail I went up the chairlift with one of them.  He couldn&#039;t wait to get back to civilization and away from all the nothing around Vail.

After noticing all the hellholes, then I look at all the dark.  After all, I do own a nice small telescope.  Living in the northeast US, dark is a precious commodity and our eyes are drawn to places like the Adirondacks in New York, the White Mountains in New Hampshire, and wonderfully delineated &quot;Crown of Maine.&quot;  The latter is a bit of an astronomical hellhole - any light there (up or down) is blocked by pine trees.

And then there&#039;s Canada.  They still have lots of good dark and is fairly nearby.

New York City is enough to drive an astronomer mad.  Hmm, James Hansen has an astronomy degree, perhaps he just needs more dark, comets, and nebulae.  Orion is gorgeous this time of year.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Annette Huang (04:04:24) :</p>
<blockquote><p>
As usual, New Zealand’s off the map &#8211; but it might have shown a light or two glimmering in the major cities.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Never fear, the the image Anthony used was cropped by an anti-New Zealand zealot.</p>
<p>The link on the image, <a href="http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020810.html" rel="nofollow">http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020810.html</a> takes you to the &#8220;Astronomy Picture of the Day&#8221; and a link to a 2400&#215;1200 pixel version.  Both include Hawaii to New Zealand in all their 2002 glory.</p>
<p> evanjones (22:09:27) :</p>
<blockquote><p>
I notice that most of the places without lights are hellholes I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemies.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Ah, spoken like a true Hew Yorker.  :-)  On a ski trip to Vail I went up the chairlift with one of them.  He couldn&#8217;t wait to get back to civilization and away from all the nothing around Vail.</p>
<p>After noticing all the hellholes, then I look at all the dark.  After all, I do own a nice small telescope.  Living in the northeast US, dark is a precious commodity and our eyes are drawn to places like the Adirondacks in New York, the White Mountains in New Hampshire, and wonderfully delineated &#8220;Crown of Maine.&#8221;  The latter is a bit of an astronomical hellhole &#8211; any light there (up or down) is blocked by pine trees.</p>
<p>And then there&#8217;s Canada.  They still have lots of good dark and is fairly nearby.</p>
<p>New York City is enough to drive an astronomer mad.  Hmm, James Hansen has an astronomy degree, perhaps he just needs more dark, comets, and nebulae.  Orion is gorgeous this time of year.</p>
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		<title>By: Annette Huang</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/23/scientists-warn-christmas-lights-harm-the-planet/#comment-66692</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Annette Huang]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 12:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4665#comment-66692</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As usual, New Zealand&#039;s off the map - but it might have shown a light or two glimmering in the major cities. 

However, NZ cannot compete with the magnificent building-high Christmas light decorations in Hong Kong, bordering both sides of the harbour. Unfortunately this year the general amount of decoration is less than it used to be. Hard times or apathy? It&#039;s difficult to tell. 

Season&#039;s greetings to all.

-- Annette - who has enjoyed an unseasonally warm Christmas day in Hong Kong.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As usual, New Zealand&#8217;s off the map &#8211; but it might have shown a light or two glimmering in the major cities. </p>
<p>However, NZ cannot compete with the magnificent building-high Christmas light decorations in Hong Kong, bordering both sides of the harbour. Unfortunately this year the general amount of decoration is less than it used to be. Hard times or apathy? It&#8217;s difficult to tell. </p>
<p>Season&#8217;s greetings to all.</p>
<p>&#8211; Annette &#8211; who has enjoyed an unseasonally warm Christmas day in Hong Kong.</p>
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		<title>By: Malcolm Hill</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/23/scientists-warn-christmas-lights-harm-the-planet/#comment-66677</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Malcolm Hill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 10:11:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4665#comment-66677</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well what else woud you expect from the sheltered workshop of the publically funded CSIRO.

Its par for the course.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well what else woud you expect from the sheltered workshop of the publically funded CSIRO.</p>
<p>Its par for the course.</p>
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		<title>By: PeteM</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/23/scientists-warn-christmas-lights-harm-the-planet/#comment-66676</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PeteM]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 10:00:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4665#comment-66676</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[George E. Smith (16:27:14) : 

&quot; .....The major way in which blue lights (LEDs aren’t any different from any other blue lights) exhibit vision difficulties, is that the human eye is highly chromatic aberated.....&quot;

Thank you for your clear explanation of my  observation about blue (LED) lights.  It&#039;s a pleasure to read  a well thought out and reasoned comment.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George E. Smith (16:27:14) : </p>
<p>&#8221; &#8230;..The major way in which blue lights (LEDs aren’t any different from any other blue lights) exhibit vision difficulties, is that the human eye is highly chromatic aberated&#8230;..&#8221;</p>
<p>Thank you for your clear explanation of my  observation about blue (LED) lights.  It&#8217;s a pleasure to read  a well thought out and reasoned comment.</p>
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		<title>By: crosspatch</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/23/scientists-warn-christmas-lights-harm-the-planet/#comment-66673</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[crosspatch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 09:06:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4665#comment-66673</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Adelaide had a string of days over 35 celsius that was evidence of climate change.&quot;

Yep.  Record cold is &quot;weather&quot; and record heat is &quot;evidence&quot;.  Amazing, that, isn&#039;t it?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Adelaide had a string of days over 35 celsius that was evidence of climate change.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yep.  Record cold is &#8220;weather&#8221; and record heat is &#8220;evidence&#8221;.  Amazing, that, isn&#8217;t it?</p>
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		<title>By: Gerard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/23/scientists-warn-christmas-lights-harm-the-planet/#comment-66667</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gerard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 08:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4665#comment-66667</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How do they account for the record snowfalls across the US and Canada, I guess they will say thats weather not climate. Convenient that when Adelaide had a string of days over 35 celsius that was evidence of climate change.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How do they account for the record snowfalls across the US and Canada, I guess they will say thats weather not climate. Convenient that when Adelaide had a string of days over 35 celsius that was evidence of climate change.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/23/scientists-warn-christmas-lights-harm-the-planet/#comment-66662</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alan Wilkinson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 06:55:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4665#comment-66662</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Send these CSIRO scientists into the outback saltpans to shovel salt and cure global warming by increasing the reflectivity of the desert.  That would do a heck of a lot more to cool the planet than turning off Christmas lights.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Send these CSIRO scientists into the outback saltpans to shovel salt and cure global warming by increasing the reflectivity of the desert.  That would do a heck of a lot more to cool the planet than turning off Christmas lights.</p>
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		<title>By: crosspatch</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/23/scientists-warn-christmas-lights-harm-the-planet/#comment-66660</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[crosspatch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 06:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4665#comment-66660</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I just noticed a story that San Francisco airport will be giving travelers the option to purchase &quot;carbon credits&quot; to offset their travel carbon footprint.  Next time I fly through there, I am going to ask if they have &quot;carbon credit credits&quot; and if they ask me what those are, I will say &quot;they are credits that offset the guilt of not actually buying the carbon credits that offset the guilt of not actually cutting down on your energy consumption but making you pay something so you feel you have somehow made up for it ... or something&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just noticed a story that San Francisco airport will be giving travelers the option to purchase &#8220;carbon credits&#8221; to offset their travel carbon footprint.  Next time I fly through there, I am going to ask if they have &#8220;carbon credit credits&#8221; and if they ask me what those are, I will say &#8220;they are credits that offset the guilt of not actually buying the carbon credits that offset the guilt of not actually cutting down on your energy consumption but making you pay something so you feel you have somehow made up for it &#8230; or something&#8221;.</p>
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