Comments on: Something is rotten in Norway – 500,000 sq-km of sea ice disappears overnight

By: Neil

Neil — Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:42:34 +0000

Of course global warming is nothing more than a huge tax scam with CO2 the revenue meter.
The warmist campaign is not scientific but political. The UK Climate Change Bill went through its 3rd reading without debate and with only a handful of Nay votes.
One needs to do more than write comments in pages such as this before the media etc is totally silenced. Stop the carbon con and don’t be affraid of being called a flat earther or other stupid names.
One day the cat will be out of the bag but how much will it cost us all before then and how long will the jail term be for Gore and co for fraud on a world wide scale? A political pardon me thinks.

By: bugs

bugs — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 08:22:03 +0000

Hmmm, HANSEN sounds suspiciously like NANSEN? Just a co-incidence?

By: John Odegard

John Odegard — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 03:38:56 +0000

Al Gore is correct, we all need to pay alot more tax and buy carbon offsets to stop this melting.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnews/20081217/ts_usnews/arcticicemeltingatalarmingpace

By: George E. Smith

George E. Smith — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 19:54:49 +0000

I believe I did say “if you grabbed a chunk of the ice/brine cocktail”.

That would not be the old ice that has shed its brine.

By: Phil.

Phil. — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 03:34:58 +0000

Well Phil, I guess it depends on your point of view. I would have to agree with what crosspatch said; only to the extent, that if you grabbed a chunk of that ice/brine cocktail and ate it, that you would get the benefit of the brine salt.

Only if it were new ice, multiyear ice will have expelled the brine by the mechanism referred to and is essentially fresh.

By: George E. Smith

George E. Smith — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 19:59:01 +0000

“” Phil. (07:48:48) :

George E. Smith (11:50:04) :
“” crosspatch (19:07:45) :

Arctic sea ice is frozen sea water but the longer it lives the more the salt works out of it. The older it gets, the fresher it gets. “”

………….

But there really isn’t any “outsalting” process that goes on once the water is frozen. The very concept of solid means that the molecules are NOT free to move about in the solid, so any small amount of salt in the solid is not going to move about and get ejected from the solid.

Actually George crosspatch is right, see here for example: http://www.nsidc.org/seaice/characteristics/brine_salinity.html “”

But brine is not ice; and the ice, sans brine, is fresh water of quite high purity.

If you dig up your potatos or yams, and you don’t pay attention to not collecting the weeds between them; then you could reasonably claim that potatos or yams have a lot of weed content.

But touch! crosspatch ! ; I never pass up an opportunity to learn something myself.

George

By: sean

sean — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 19:34:54 +0000

I can believe a minor change went wrong. Happens all the time. Been there, got the T shirt. Lesson 1. run the new script over old data as you know what the output should look like. Lesson 2. It is less painful to own up with a readme /release note than to wait to be caught.

That said, why has extent leveled of over the last few days? Is it real? Wind compacting?

Dec 10 11650000
Dec 11 11678594
Dec 12 11681563
Dec 13 11662813
Dec 14 11640625
Dec 15 11682813

Source IJIS web site today.

By: Rhys Jaggar

Rhys Jaggar — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 18:49:19 +0000

NSIDC.ORG is now flat-lining for four days from 11th December on ice extent.

Is this to make them consistent with NANSEN?

Don’t know…….but it sure raises questions…..in the interest of science.

By: anna v

anna v — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 17:41:12 +0000

Trevor (02:57:29) :

Comparing the Nansen graphs with AMSR. What is going on at AMSR. They are showing that ice extent has fallen for the past week or so. I remain sceptical of the reasons for changing the graphs. Too convenient.

Have a look at the animation in cryosphere http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/ .

There is a retreat the last few days.

If you look at the water temperature anomalies, another animation at the bottom of the index page http://weather.unisys.com/archive/sst/, you will see a “hot spot” south of Iceland after mid november. Volcano/geothermal activity?

By: Phil.

Phil. — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 16:31:15 +0000

Trevor (02:57:29) :
Comparing the Nansen graphs with AMSR. What is going on at AMSR. They are showing that ice extent has fallen for the past week or so.

And if you look at the other curves you’ll notice that it’s not an uncommon event even in January.

By: Phil.

Phil. — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 15:48:48 +0000

George E. Smith (11:50:04) :
“” crosspatch (19:07:45) :

Arctic sea ice is frozen sea water but the longer it lives the more the salt works out of it. The older it gets, the fresher it gets. “”

………….

Actually George crosspatch is right, see here for example: http://www.nsidc.org/seaice/characteristics/brine_salinity.html

By: John A.

John A. — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 13:45:53 +0000

Somehow data, when inconvenient to the person presenting it, always seems to change. If their reason, software change, whatever it is, is valid, then why is only one part of the graph affected? 2 + 2=4 in my book, according to theirs it’s 22. hmmmm

By: Trevor

Trevor — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 10:57:29 +0000

Link to AMSR

http://www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/seaice/extent/AMSRE_Sea_Ice_Extent.png

By: Roald

Roald — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 10:41:14 +0000

There is now a correction note on the NANSEN website:

On 13th December the ice area and extent were recalculated and new curves plotted for 01.09.2008-12.12.2008 due to error in new version of software.

By: Geophys55, Houston

Geophys55, Houston — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:37:27 +0000

When you combine this with the “hottest October” hoax we just saw and the “Ten Hottest Years” hoax a few years back and the other (always upward) “adjustments” that keep happening to temperature measurements, it stops being amusing.

I looked in over at the Nansen site, today. Maybe I missed it, but I didn’t see any mea culpas over there. Perhaps they think that posting on “Watts” is enough?

I kinda gotta throw in with Thorn (Charlton Heston) when he mocked Sol Roth’s (Edward G, Robinson) lament “Greenhouse Effect! Everything’s burning up!”.

(See Soylent Green, 1973 – a true classic SF movie)