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	<title>Comments on: Greenhouse gases make oceans noisier?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/04/greenhouse-gases-make-oceans-noisier/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/04/greenhouse-gases-make-oceans-noisier/</link>
	<description>Commentary on puzzling things in life, nature, science, weather, climate change, technology, and recent news by Anthony Watts</description>
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		<title>By: Reed Coray</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/04/greenhouse-gases-make-oceans-noisier/#comment-62846</link>
		<dc:creator>Reed Coray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 03:36:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4418#comment-62846</guid>
		<description>The answer is to give all the Blue Whales cell phones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The answer is to give all the Blue Whales cell phones.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Dedekind</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/04/greenhouse-gases-make-oceans-noisier/#comment-62576</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Dedekind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 01:15:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4418#comment-62576</guid>
		<description>I was intrigued by this report, and went into it in a bit of detail.  It is true that there is a minor term in sound absorption that relates to relaxation frequencies of Boric acid.  However, sound absorption is dominated by temperature, depth and salinity.  The points to note about the paper are:
1) It is based on complete knowledge of pre-industrial CO2 levels.  There is plenty of evidence to show that the current acknowledged levels are open to debate.
2) It makes no actual measurements.  It even goes so far as to make the rather strange statement &quot;As shown, sound absorption has already decreased due to pH changes and is likely already contributing to increased ambient noise levels.&quot;  This is without actually measuring a pH change, nor a sound absorption change, nor providing any evidence other than their model.
3) The calculation for sound absorption coefficient is based on Francois and Garrison (1982).  This quantifies the Boric acid relaxation contribution to the absorption.  It only really applies below 10kHz.  But most importantly, it is quickly swamped by the other terms as depth is increased.  Note that the depth chosen for their calculations is only 0.05m.  There is good reason for this: I reproduced their results, but then also plotted the effects at various depths.  By 10m down the pH effect had all but disappeared.  Now whales are remarkably adaptable animals.  US Navy tests recently showed that when whale signals were deliberately drowned out using strong sonars, the whales simply increased the length of their own signals, thereby ensuring their messages got through.  So I suggest that if they are getting confused by all the noise, they will simply sink slightly deeper before listening or sending.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was intrigued by this report, and went into it in a bit of detail.  It is true that there is a minor term in sound absorption that relates to relaxation frequencies of Boric acid.  However, sound absorption is dominated by temperature, depth and salinity.  The points to note about the paper are:<br />
1) It is based on complete knowledge of pre-industrial CO2 levels.  There is plenty of evidence to show that the current acknowledged levels are open to debate.<br />
2) It makes no actual measurements.  It even goes so far as to make the rather strange statement &#8220;As shown, sound absorption has already decreased due to pH changes and is likely already contributing to increased ambient noise levels.&#8221;  This is without actually measuring a pH change, nor a sound absorption change, nor providing any evidence other than their model.<br />
3) The calculation for sound absorption coefficient is based on Francois and Garrison (1982).  This quantifies the Boric acid relaxation contribution to the absorption.  It only really applies below 10kHz.  But most importantly, it is quickly swamped by the other terms as depth is increased.  Note that the depth chosen for their calculations is only 0.05m.  There is good reason for this: I reproduced their results, but then also plotted the effects at various depths.  By 10m down the pH effect had all but disappeared.  Now whales are remarkably adaptable animals.  US Navy tests recently showed that when whale signals were deliberately drowned out using strong sonars, the whales simply increased the length of their own signals, thereby ensuring their messages got through.  So I suggest that if they are getting confused by all the noise, they will simply sink slightly deeper before listening or sending.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Junga</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/04/greenhouse-gases-make-oceans-noisier/#comment-62018</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Junga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 17:12:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4418#comment-62018</guid>
		<description>I would like to know just how much noise is caused by those earthquakes causing those massive tsumamis we read about.
And does AGW cause them too?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to know just how much noise is caused by those earthquakes causing those massive tsumamis we read about.<br />
And does AGW cause them too?</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Junga</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/04/greenhouse-gases-make-oceans-noisier/#comment-62016</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Junga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 17:06:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4418#comment-62016</guid>
		<description>Why do I keep reading all this alarmist stuff in the first place. Why, I have to do some antiacids to settle my stomach.
I just want to know just how much CO2 is necessary to drop the ph of the oceans below ph=7.0 since it is currently averaging ph=8.1. Oh by the way, that would have to be only anthropogenically generated CO2, not the CO2 bubbling up from the ocean floor.
Funny, I have to worry about ph fluctuations in my goldfish tank , but the hobbyist websites say oceans and lakes aren&#039;t prone to fluctuations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do I keep reading all this alarmist stuff in the first place. Why, I have to do some antiacids to settle my stomach.<br />
I just want to know just how much CO2 is necessary to drop the ph of the oceans below ph=7.0 since it is currently averaging ph=8.1. Oh by the way, that would have to be only anthropogenically generated CO2, not the CO2 bubbling up from the ocean floor.<br />
Funny, I have to worry about ph fluctuations in my goldfish tank , but the hobbyist websites say oceans and lakes aren&#8217;t prone to fluctuations.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Ronayne</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/04/greenhouse-gases-make-oceans-noisier/#comment-61883</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Ronayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 22:39:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4418#comment-61883</guid>
		<description>I found an online PDF copy of the paper by Hester, K.C. et al.

Unanticipated consequences of ocean acidification: A noisier ocean at lower pH
http://iod.ucsd.edu/courses/sio278/documents/hester_et_al_08_ocean_noisier_pH_jrl.pdf

After reading the paper several times in appears that no actual measurements were made by this research team. What they did was draw conclusions from other research papers with a lot of CYA verbiage add to give them wiggle room. There are many variables which impact the absorption of sound in seawater including salinity/density and temperature. There is a passing reference to temperature and no mention of salinity or density at all. If being able to hear better is a survival advantage to marine life and decreasing pH improves the transmission of sound, then if this paper were correct lower pH values should be a plus to marine life dependent on long-range communications, not a negative.

Having kept tropical and non-tropical species of fish for over 50 years, I am well area of the sensitivity of some species of fish to pH but that was not the subject of this paper. Read it yourself and draw your own conclusions. 

Michael Ronayne</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found an online PDF copy of the paper by Hester, K.C. et al.</p>
<p>Unanticipated consequences of ocean acidification: A noisier ocean at lower pH<br />
<a href="http://iod.ucsd.edu/courses/sio278/documents/hester_et_al_08_ocean_noisier_pH_jrl.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://iod.ucsd.edu/courses/sio278/documents/hester_et_al_08_ocean_noisier_pH_jrl.pdf</a></p>
<p>After reading the paper several times in appears that no actual measurements were made by this research team. What they did was draw conclusions from other research papers with a lot of CYA verbiage add to give them wiggle room. There are many variables which impact the absorption of sound in seawater including salinity/density and temperature. There is a passing reference to temperature and no mention of salinity or density at all. If being able to hear better is a survival advantage to marine life and decreasing pH improves the transmission of sound, then if this paper were correct lower pH values should be a plus to marine life dependent on long-range communications, not a negative.</p>
<p>Having kept tropical and non-tropical species of fish for over 50 years, I am well area of the sensitivity of some species of fish to pH but that was not the subject of this paper. Read it yourself and draw your own conclusions. </p>
<p>Michael Ronayne</p>
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		<title>By: Bern Bray</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/04/greenhouse-gases-make-oceans-noisier/#comment-61505</link>
		<dc:creator>Bern Bray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 21:17:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4418#comment-61505</guid>
		<description>George E. Smith:
&quot;and there is more to signal revcovery than just propagation distance&quot;

Too true. I&#039;m no submariner, but I&#039;m sure that some sonar tech could instruct us about thermoclines and reflection layers in the water.

Also, have they taken into account the incredible array of auditory sensitivity in various forms of marine life? They don&#039;t all hear the way we do.

As a parting shot I would like to point out that acid (rock) vastly increased the noise in my environment, and although it has reduced my auditory range, I was still able to find food and mate. I think that the whales will be ok.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George E. Smith:<br />
&#8220;and there is more to signal revcovery than just propagation distance&#8221;</p>
<p>Too true. I&#8217;m no submariner, but I&#8217;m sure that some sonar tech could instruct us about thermoclines and reflection layers in the water.</p>
<p>Also, have they taken into account the incredible array of auditory sensitivity in various forms of marine life? They don&#8217;t all hear the way we do.</p>
<p>As a parting shot I would like to point out that acid (rock) vastly increased the noise in my environment, and although it has reduced my auditory range, I was still able to find food and mate. I think that the whales will be ok.</p>
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		<title>By: George E. Smith</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/04/greenhouse-gases-make-oceans-noisier/#comment-61481</link>
		<dc:creator>George E. Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 18:59:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4418#comment-61481</guid>
		<description>Biggest racket I ever heard in the ocean was sitting in a nice warm Sea of Cortez pool among some oyster bearing rocks, with a flock os Sergeant Majors swimming around near me.  I was underwater but snorkel breathing, so my regulator wasn&#039;t discharging anything.
I was popping off Oyster shells to wathc the Ser Majors dart in and grab the oyster.  It only took a couple to train them to crowd around the edge of my screw drive waiting for the next shell to pop.

The noise was deafening, with all sorts of clicks and squeaks and other critter conversation; lots of shrimps were responsible for a good part of it.  Didn&#039;t here any engine noises although the Cortez is alive with ourboard motor boats, and I didn&#039;t here any whales or porpoises either, although sometimes the porpoises will coime right up to you in shallow water.

And I don&#039;t think the surface waters are getting more acidified or even very much less alkaline.   Since CO2 is more soluble in cooler water aa deeper water, there must be a continuous pumping of CO2 from the surface to deeper layers to the the better solubility cooler layers.   So I doubt that surface concentration of CO2 is increasing very much.

In any case the whales communicate over huge distances at low frequencies, and there is more to signal revcovery than just propagation distance.  Whales have pretty sophisticated signal processing capability or else they simply wouldn&#039;t be able to communicate over the distances they do.   So I would want to see a whole lot more signal to noise ratio data from this story source before I would give it any credibility.

So If I flush my toilet twice instead of once, is that going to result in any disturbance of a surfing competition in Hawaii next month; or is it only the wind produced by butterflies that can do that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Biggest racket I ever heard in the ocean was sitting in a nice warm Sea of Cortez pool among some oyster bearing rocks, with a flock os Sergeant Majors swimming around near me.  I was underwater but snorkel breathing, so my regulator wasn&#8217;t discharging anything.<br />
I was popping off Oyster shells to wathc the Ser Majors dart in and grab the oyster.  It only took a couple to train them to crowd around the edge of my screw drive waiting for the next shell to pop.</p>
<p>The noise was deafening, with all sorts of clicks and squeaks and other critter conversation; lots of shrimps were responsible for a good part of it.  Didn&#8217;t here any engine noises although the Cortez is alive with ourboard motor boats, and I didn&#8217;t here any whales or porpoises either, although sometimes the porpoises will coime right up to you in shallow water.</p>
<p>And I don&#8217;t think the surface waters are getting more acidified or even very much less alkaline.   Since CO2 is more soluble in cooler water aa deeper water, there must be a continuous pumping of CO2 from the surface to deeper layers to the the better solubility cooler layers.   So I doubt that surface concentration of CO2 is increasing very much.</p>
<p>In any case the whales communicate over huge distances at low frequencies, and there is more to signal revcovery than just propagation distance.  Whales have pretty sophisticated signal processing capability or else they simply wouldn&#8217;t be able to communicate over the distances they do.   So I would want to see a whole lot more signal to noise ratio data from this story source before I would give it any credibility.</p>
<p>So If I flush my toilet twice instead of once, is that going to result in any disturbance of a surfing competition in Hawaii next month; or is it only the wind produced by butterflies that can do that.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan McCune</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/04/greenhouse-gases-make-oceans-noisier/#comment-61480</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan McCune</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 18:59:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4418#comment-61480</guid>
		<description>I sometimes wonder who from the Ip\PCC writes Wiki articles.  Here&#039;s what they have to say about this issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification

Ocean acidification is the name given to the ongoing decrease in the pH of the Earth&#039;s oceans, caused by their uptake of anthropogenic carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.[1] Between 1751 and 1994 surface ocean pH is estimated to have decreased from approximately 8.179 to 8.104 (a change of -0.075).[2][3]

OMG - The ocean pH has dropped -0.000308642 per year over the last 241 years.  I&#039;m moving to another planet that isn&#039;t covered by 2/3 ocean.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I sometimes wonder who from the Ip\PCC writes Wiki articles.  Here&#8217;s what they have to say about this issue.</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification</a></p>
<p>Ocean acidification is the name given to the ongoing decrease in the pH of the Earth&#8217;s oceans, caused by their uptake of anthropogenic carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.[1] Between 1751 and 1994 surface ocean pH is estimated to have decreased from approximately 8.179 to 8.104 (a change of -0.075).[2][3]</p>
<p>OMG &#8211; The ocean pH has dropped -0.000308642 per year over the last 241 years.  I&#8217;m moving to another planet that isn&#8217;t covered by 2/3 ocean.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan McCune</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/04/greenhouse-gases-make-oceans-noisier/#comment-61479</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan McCune</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 18:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4418#comment-61479</guid>
		<description>jorgekafkazar,

Sound more like a SWAG (Statistical Wild Ass Guess) than a POOMA to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jorgekafkazar,</p>
<p>Sound more like a SWAG (Statistical Wild Ass Guess) than a POOMA to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Paddy</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/04/greenhouse-gases-make-oceans-noisier/#comment-61466</link>
		<dc:creator>Paddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 18:10:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4418#comment-61466</guid>
		<description>Is there any experimental research as to how far sound waves of various frequencies travel in oceans with different acidic levels, or is this a few alarmists &quot;expert opinions&quot; on what can or might happen? Where is the proof for this brand of nonsense?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there any experimental research as to how far sound waves of various frequencies travel in oceans with different acidic levels, or is this a few alarmists &#8220;expert opinions&#8221; on what can or might happen? Where is the proof for this brand of nonsense?</p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/04/greenhouse-gases-make-oceans-noisier/#comment-61452</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:33:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4418#comment-61452</guid>
		<description>That is a poorly written news article. How much more noise is now in the oceans? How much is the acidity rising? Is the noise travel a linear or non-linear relationship with acidity? Is the rise in all oceans or only in selected areas? The article has been so dumbed down to remove numbers that it is useless as a news - and only useful as propaganda (&quot;Acidity is worse. This makes noise worse. Noise is worse. This effects whales. Trust us because we are important.&quot; summarizes this poorly researched and written news report.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is a poorly written news article. How much more noise is now in the oceans? How much is the acidity rising? Is the noise travel a linear or non-linear relationship with acidity? Is the rise in all oceans or only in selected areas? The article has been so dumbed down to remove numbers that it is useless as a news &#8211; and only useful as propaganda (&#8220;Acidity is worse. This makes noise worse. Noise is worse. This effects whales. Trust us because we are important.&#8221; summarizes this poorly researched and written news report.)</p>
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		<title>By: jorgekafkazar</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/04/greenhouse-gases-make-oceans-noisier/#comment-61451</link>
		<dc:creator>jorgekafkazar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:24:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4418#comment-61451</guid>
		<description>Well, obviously the CO² must be doing something bad. One of the links showed a dead whale, didn&#039;t it? What more evidence do we need? 

That 90% loss of communication is a POOMA number. (Bern, that stands for &quot;Preliminary Order Of Magnitude Approximation.&quot;) 

And regarding the relative noise levels of fresh Coke and flat Coke, beer has &#039;em both beat. 

Science has become an outmoded concept.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, obviously the CO² must be doing something bad. One of the links showed a dead whale, didn&#8217;t it? What more evidence do we need? </p>
<p>That 90% loss of communication is a POOMA number. (Bern, that stands for &#8220;Preliminary Order Of Magnitude Approximation.&#8221;) </p>
<p>And regarding the relative noise levels of fresh Coke and flat Coke, beer has &#8216;em both beat. </p>
<p>Science has become an outmoded concept.</p>
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		<title>By: james griffin</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/04/greenhouse-gases-make-oceans-noisier/#comment-61446</link>
		<dc:creator>james griffin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:18:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4418#comment-61446</guid>
		<description>With the planet cooling and the ice returning in the Arctic this sounds like a wonderful diversion that underlines their desperation.

Underwater volcanoes are the most likely answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With the planet cooling and the ice returning in the Arctic this sounds like a wonderful diversion that underlines their desperation.</p>
<p>Underwater volcanoes are the most likely answer.</p>
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		<title>By: DocWat</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/04/greenhouse-gases-make-oceans-noisier/#comment-61441</link>
		<dc:creator>DocWat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:53:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4418#comment-61441</guid>
		<description>At last something I know about...
Geophysical Service Inc. In cooperation with the Alaska Dept of Fisheries Conducted tests to determine the amount of damage done to fish by the geophysical air guns. Salmon fingerlings were chosen as the test target because they were thought to be most vulnerable to the air guns. 

The original test was to evaluate the effects of the air guns at distances of 2m, 10m, 20m, 30m, and 40m. The equipment was a full array (if I remember correctly, 40 guns of various sizes) of the air guns. 

The Alaska biologist suggested they start at 2m to see how bad it could get. Cages of fingerlings were placed 2m from the air guns and the array was discharged. Examinations of the fingerlings showed no physical damage. The Biologist declared the rest of the test was unnecessary and the use of the air guns was approved for use in Alaskan waters.

Needless to say, my boss was greatly relieved when he came back to Houston.

I have to admit they never thought to do the 2m test on a blue whale. psych evals were also not performed on the fingerlings</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At last something I know about&#8230;<br />
Geophysical Service Inc. In cooperation with the Alaska Dept of Fisheries Conducted tests to determine the amount of damage done to fish by the geophysical air guns. Salmon fingerlings were chosen as the test target because they were thought to be most vulnerable to the air guns. </p>
<p>The original test was to evaluate the effects of the air guns at distances of 2m, 10m, 20m, 30m, and 40m. The equipment was a full array (if I remember correctly, 40 guns of various sizes) of the air guns. </p>
<p>The Alaska biologist suggested they start at 2m to see how bad it could get. Cages of fingerlings were placed 2m from the air guns and the array was discharged. Examinations of the fingerlings showed no physical damage. The Biologist declared the rest of the test was unnecessary and the use of the air guns was approved for use in Alaskan waters.</p>
<p>Needless to say, my boss was greatly relieved when he came back to Houston.</p>
<p>I have to admit they never thought to do the 2m test on a blue whale. psych evals were also not performed on the fingerlings</p>
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		<title>By: Lucy</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/04/greenhouse-gases-make-oceans-noisier/#comment-61428</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:21:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4418#comment-61428</guid>
		<description>So what kinds of noises are being amplified in the water?  The constant whapwhapwhap of the 80 mills at the Horns Rev Wind Farm?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So what kinds of noises are being amplified in the water?  The constant whapwhapwhap of the 80 mills at the Horns Rev Wind Farm?</p>
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		<title>By: Bern Bray</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/04/greenhouse-gases-make-oceans-noisier/#comment-61427</link>
		<dc:creator>Bern Bray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:21:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4418#comment-61427</guid>
		<description>&quot;Noise fog&quot; sounds like the &quot;Brain cloud&quot; from Joe vs the Volcano.

“Blue whales’ capacity to communicate has been reduced by 90 percent,” she said.
Now, just how did they come up with that number? When I was a kid, they were thought to be extinct. The current estimate is 5000 to 12000 worldwide. Did they perform a telephone poll?

Researcher: dials phone
Whale: Who&#039;s there?
Researcher: Dave
Whale: Dave&#039;s not here
Researcher Scribbles furiously: Blue whale&#039;s’ capacity to communicate has been reduced by 90 percent

I think they pulled that number from a place I&#039;d rather not mention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Noise fog&#8221; sounds like the &#8220;Brain cloud&#8221; from Joe vs the Volcano.</p>
<p>“Blue whales’ capacity to communicate has been reduced by 90 percent,” she said.<br />
Now, just how did they come up with that number? When I was a kid, they were thought to be extinct. The current estimate is 5000 to 12000 worldwide. Did they perform a telephone poll?</p>
<p>Researcher: dials phone<br />
Whale: Who&#8217;s there?<br />
Researcher: Dave<br />
Whale: Dave&#8217;s not here<br />
Researcher Scribbles furiously: Blue whale&#8217;s’ capacity to communicate has been reduced by 90 percent</p>
<p>I think they pulled that number from a place I&#8217;d rather not mention.</p>
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		<title>By: crosspatch</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/04/greenhouse-gases-make-oceans-noisier/#comment-61426</link>
		<dc:creator>crosspatch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4418#comment-61426</guid>
		<description>And remember that when most of these fish species evolved the CO2 level was many times higher than it is today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And remember that when most of these fish species evolved the CO2 level was many times higher than it is today.</p>
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		<title>By: Soren</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/04/greenhouse-gases-make-oceans-noisier/#comment-61425</link>
		<dc:creator>Soren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:16:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4418#comment-61425</guid>
		<description>Hmm.  the last time I looked, increased acidity meant a lowering of PH. 

But I seem to remember that there is some amount of salt in the oceans (35 ppt).  And IIRC adding Sodium Chloride, NaCl, to water raises PH (so ocean water is slightly alkaline) and the oceans have a PH higher than 7 (between 7.5 and 8.4). 

So, adding CO2 to sea water would serve to slightly lower the PH closer to the equilibrium level of 7.  

Not exactly the image of acid oceans conjured up by our dear members of the media.

Relating increased noise levels in the oceans to shipping and similar man-created activity is one thing. Blaming greenhouse gases is quite another.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm.  the last time I looked, increased acidity meant a lowering of PH. </p>
<p>But I seem to remember that there is some amount of salt in the oceans (35 ppt).  And IIRC adding Sodium Chloride, NaCl, to water raises PH (so ocean water is slightly alkaline) and the oceans have a PH higher than 7 (between 7.5 and 8.4). </p>
<p>So, adding CO2 to sea water would serve to slightly lower the PH closer to the equilibrium level of 7.  </p>
<p>Not exactly the image of acid oceans conjured up by our dear members of the media.</p>
<p>Relating increased noise levels in the oceans to shipping and similar man-created activity is one thing. Blaming greenhouse gases is quite another.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/04/greenhouse-gases-make-oceans-noisier/#comment-61423</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:15:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4418#comment-61423</guid>
		<description>Is there anything that CO2 (or rather ACO2) cannot do?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there anything that CO2 (or rather ACO2) cannot do?</p>
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		<title>By: Leon Brozyna</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/04/greenhouse-gases-make-oceans-noisier/#comment-61421</link>
		<dc:creator>Leon Brozyna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.com/?p=4418#comment-61421</guid>
		<description>If the world is warming due to CO2, then the oceans would be warmer which would result in outgassing and less CO2 in the oceans. But if there&#039;s cooling, then more CO2 would be absorbed. But there can&#039;t be cooling, as that runs counter to the AGW scenario. What a convoluted mass of contradictions this is. But wait — this is the UN speaking and logical consistency is not their forte. What is going in here?

Let&#039;s stop a moment and reread this very telling piece. Look beyond the political/religious environmental silliness contained in the article to see the real objective. All that talk about greenhouse gases and ocean acidification is but a smokescreen for the real target. The real objective is that of &quot;combatting ocean noise, which is caused primarily by shipping, oil and gas exploration and military sonars.&quot; This is yet another example of aggressive environmentalism, which poses as being aimed at sensible conservation, while in fact it reveals the anti-man/anti-life motivation of aggressive environmentalism. Everything in Nature is good; everything mankind does is bad and must be stopped.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the world is warming due to CO2, then the oceans would be warmer which would result in outgassing and less CO2 in the oceans. But if there&#8217;s cooling, then more CO2 would be absorbed. But there can&#8217;t be cooling, as that runs counter to the AGW scenario. What a convoluted mass of contradictions this is. But wait — this is the UN speaking and logical consistency is not their forte. What is going in here?</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s stop a moment and reread this very telling piece. Look beyond the political/religious environmental silliness contained in the article to see the real objective. All that talk about greenhouse gases and ocean acidification is but a smokescreen for the real target. The real objective is that of &#8220;combatting ocean noise, which is caused primarily by shipping, oil and gas exploration and military sonars.&#8221; This is yet another example of aggressive environmentalism, which poses as being aimed at sensible conservation, while in fact it reveals the anti-man/anti-life motivation of aggressive environmentalism. Everything in Nature is good; everything mankind does is bad and must be stopped.</p>
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