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	<title>Comments on: A Test of Climate, Sun, and Culture Relationships from an 1810-Year Chinese Cave Record</title>
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	<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/07/a-test-of-climate-sun-and-culture-relationships-from-an-1810-year-chinese-cave-record/</link>
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		<title>By: crosspatch</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/07/a-test-of-climate-sun-and-culture-relationships-from-an-1810-year-chinese-cave-record/#comment-56500</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[crosspatch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 07:59:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=4044#comment-56500</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, here is the thing for me ... for the past 2 million years or so ice age is the normal condition.  Warm interglacial periods like we are in now are the &quot;odd&quot; condition.  Glacial periods last for 100K years.  Interglacial periods about 10K years.  We are nearing the end of the average interglacial duration (actually past it).  So I can&#039;t really buy the notion that something that happens once every 100K years triggers an ice age.  Rather, something that happens once every 100K years brings us out of one temporarily. 

I managed to find an add-on for NASA World Wind that allows me to adjust sea levels.  When sea levels were at their minimum things were much different in the Caribbean. There was a land mass between Cuba and Florida.  There was much more land off the coast of Florida.  There was a huge land mass in the Atlantic Southeast of Newfoundland larger than Nova Scotia.

I am fairly convinced that while Earth&#039;s orbital cycles appear to go in 100K year cycles, they don&#039;t result in causing an ice age.  Again, ice age is currently the NORMAL phase.  Interglacial is the oddity.  I don&#039;t believe that conditions were such 12K years ago to bring us out.  My gut says it is due to us living near a variable star.  I suspect that we go into a deep solar minimum that results in an increase in albedo that acts as hysteresis.  We go into a deep minimum, ice builds up, it causes albedo to increase and the sun goes into another minimum before Earth has completely recovered from the first ... and bingo ... we start the spiral downward in temperature until we have a combination of both favorable orbital dynamics AND an active sun.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, here is the thing for me &#8230; for the past 2 million years or so ice age is the normal condition.  Warm interglacial periods like we are in now are the &#8220;odd&#8221; condition.  Glacial periods last for 100K years.  Interglacial periods about 10K years.  We are nearing the end of the average interglacial duration (actually past it).  So I can&#8217;t really buy the notion that something that happens once every 100K years triggers an ice age.  Rather, something that happens once every 100K years brings us out of one temporarily. </p>
<p>I managed to find an add-on for NASA World Wind that allows me to adjust sea levels.  When sea levels were at their minimum things were much different in the Caribbean. There was a land mass between Cuba and Florida.  There was much more land off the coast of Florida.  There was a huge land mass in the Atlantic Southeast of Newfoundland larger than Nova Scotia.</p>
<p>I am fairly convinced that while Earth&#8217;s orbital cycles appear to go in 100K year cycles, they don&#8217;t result in causing an ice age.  Again, ice age is currently the NORMAL phase.  Interglacial is the oddity.  I don&#8217;t believe that conditions were such 12K years ago to bring us out.  My gut says it is due to us living near a variable star.  I suspect that we go into a deep solar minimum that results in an increase in albedo that acts as hysteresis.  We go into a deep minimum, ice builds up, it causes albedo to increase and the sun goes into another minimum before Earth has completely recovered from the first &#8230; and bingo &#8230; we start the spiral downward in temperature until we have a combination of both favorable orbital dynamics AND an active sun.</p>
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		<title>By: beng</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/07/a-test-of-climate-sun-and-culture-relationships-from-an-1810-year-chinese-cave-record/#comment-55913</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[beng]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:37:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=4044#comment-55913</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting. Some very recent evidence suggests the Younger Dryas cooling (&amp; NAmerican extinctions) could have been caused by a comet/meteor strike instead of the old theory of ocean current changes -- look here:
http://www.bitsofnews.com/content/view/5737/

If so, the impact could&#039;ve caused over a &lt;i&gt;thousand yrs&lt;/i&gt; of iceage-like climate. One would wonder how the direct effects could last that long -- atmospheric debris would have cleared out in mere decades or less. Perhaps long-lasting ocean current shifts were caused by the impact.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting. Some very recent evidence suggests the Younger Dryas cooling (&amp; NAmerican extinctions) could have been caused by a comet/meteor strike instead of the old theory of ocean current changes &#8212; look here:<br />
<a href="http://www.bitsofnews.com/content/view/5737/" rel="nofollow">http://www.bitsofnews.com/content/view/5737/</a></p>
<p>If so, the impact could&#8217;ve caused over a <i>thousand yrs</i> of iceage-like climate. One would wonder how the direct effects could last that long &#8212; atmospheric debris would have cleared out in mere decades or less. Perhaps long-lasting ocean current shifts were caused by the impact.</p>
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		<title>By: little ice</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/07/a-test-of-climate-sun-and-culture-relationships-from-an-1810-year-chinese-cave-record/#comment-55840</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[little ice]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 02:30:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=4044#comment-55840</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am not sure if you are aware of this, but the following web site has summaries and citations of several hundred studies which show the global reach of MWP and LIA.

http://co2science.org/data/mwp/mwpp.php 

Pls patronize the site. They do a weekly update of a new peeer reviewed article which demonstrates the existence of MWP and LIA]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not sure if you are aware of this, but the following web site has summaries and citations of several hundred studies which show the global reach of MWP and LIA.</p>
<p><a href="http://co2science.org/data/mwp/mwpp.php" rel="nofollow">http://co2science.org/data/mwp/mwpp.php</a> </p>
<p>Pls patronize the site. They do a weekly update of a new peeer reviewed article which demonstrates the existence of MWP and LIA</p>
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		<title>By: Ellie In Belfast</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/07/a-test-of-climate-sun-and-culture-relationships-from-an-1810-year-chinese-cave-record/#comment-55713</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ellie In Belfast]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 14:24:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=4044#comment-55713</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The original paper (supplement actually) shows that the oxygen stable isotope fraction (of the CO3 in the calcite in the cave stalagmite) has a good correlation with both temperature and precipitation in the timeframe 1960-2000 and extrapolates this backwards through the seasonal layers of calcite.  

The Science Daily article (link posted by Paul (13:57:17) above) is a good summary of findings, but shows a graph that is a hybrid of several in the paper.  

As noted above the NH temperature is quite variable - more than Hockey Stick graphs.  it is from another paleo reconstruction from mixed sources (A. Moberg, et al., Highly variable Northern Hemisphere temperatures reconstructed from low- and high-resolution proxy data. Nature 433, 613 (2005) - link with graphic (note link to original data below abstract!)http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/pubs/moberg2005/moberg2005.html

This in itself is notable for the absence of hockey stickiness. Both the cave data and the other proxy data agree quite well from 750AD to present and suggest Medieval Warm Period temperatures similar to present.  The cave data paper does not report a temperature anomaly range; Moberg et al&#039;s plot is +0.1 to -0.9 (deg C) approx by eye. 

In the Science paper, in addition to this graph, two other NH temperature series are used, one of which is Mann &amp; Jones, Geophys. Res. Lett. 30, 1820
(2003) - a hockey stick. The range of this anomaly is -0.5 to -0.1 deg. C for most of the construct and -0.1 to +0.1 since about 1900. 

They also correlate the data (as a proxy for rainfall/temperature) with Solar irradiance from 10Be and 14C records (about which I am sure Leif would have some criticism) and analyse the isotope data with a univariate spectral analysis ( in on-line supplement) finding 4 periodicities including  a 10.5-year period corresponding to the Schwabe cycle of sunspot variability.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The original paper (supplement actually) shows that the oxygen stable isotope fraction (of the CO3 in the calcite in the cave stalagmite) has a good correlation with both temperature and precipitation in the timeframe 1960-2000 and extrapolates this backwards through the seasonal layers of calcite.  </p>
<p>The Science Daily article (link posted by Paul (13:57:17) above) is a good summary of findings, but shows a graph that is a hybrid of several in the paper.  </p>
<p>As noted above the NH temperature is quite variable &#8211; more than Hockey Stick graphs.  it is from another paleo reconstruction from mixed sources (A. Moberg, et al., Highly variable Northern Hemisphere temperatures reconstructed from low- and high-resolution proxy data. Nature 433, 613 (2005) &#8211; link with graphic (note link to original data below abstract!)http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/pubs/moberg2005/moberg2005.html</p>
<p>This in itself is notable for the absence of hockey stickiness. Both the cave data and the other proxy data agree quite well from 750AD to present and suggest Medieval Warm Period temperatures similar to present.  The cave data paper does not report a temperature anomaly range; Moberg et al&#8217;s plot is +0.1 to -0.9 (deg C) approx by eye. </p>
<p>In the Science paper, in addition to this graph, two other NH temperature series are used, one of which is Mann &amp; Jones, Geophys. Res. Lett. 30, 1820<br />
(2003) &#8211; a hockey stick. The range of this anomaly is -0.5 to -0.1 deg. C for most of the construct and -0.1 to +0.1 since about 1900. </p>
<p>They also correlate the data (as a proxy for rainfall/temperature) with Solar irradiance from 10Be and 14C records (about which I am sure Leif would have some criticism) and analyse the isotope data with a univariate spectral analysis ( in on-line supplement) finding 4 periodicities including  a 10.5-year period corresponding to the Schwabe cycle of sunspot variability.</p>
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		<title>By: Philip_B</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/07/a-test-of-climate-sun-and-culture-relationships-from-an-1810-year-chinese-cave-record/#comment-55601</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Philip_B]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 22:36:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=4044#comment-55601</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Robert Morris. you are not the only one to have noticed this. Apart from Mannian School manipulations (the Hockey Stick, etc), many reconstructions show the 20th century&#039;s climate to be remarkably stable (uniform) compared to earlier centuries.

Which BTW, makes the last 30 or 40 years unusual on a century scale (ie the 20th century) but not on a millenium scale.

This reconstruction shows the very abrupt cooling around 1600 or a little earlier, which other reconstructions show as -2C to -3C in as little as a decade. Were such a cooling to occur today it would be an unimaginable worldwide disaster with crop failures and famine almost everywhere.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert Morris. you are not the only one to have noticed this. Apart from Mannian School manipulations (the Hockey Stick, etc), many reconstructions show the 20th century&#8217;s climate to be remarkably stable (uniform) compared to earlier centuries.</p>
<p>Which BTW, makes the last 30 or 40 years unusual on a century scale (ie the 20th century) but not on a millenium scale.</p>
<p>This reconstruction shows the very abrupt cooling around 1600 or a little earlier, which other reconstructions show as -2C to -3C in as little as a decade. Were such a cooling to occur today it would be an unimaginable worldwide disaster with crop failures and famine almost everywhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Morris</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/07/a-test-of-climate-sun-and-culture-relationships-from-an-1810-year-chinese-cave-record/#comment-55402</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Morris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 04:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=4044#comment-55402</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Errr re above - flat in the 20th Century.  Oh fof an edit button ;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Errr re above &#8211; flat in the 20th Century.  Oh fof an edit button ;)</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Morris</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/07/a-test-of-climate-sun-and-culture-relationships-from-an-1810-year-chinese-cave-record/#comment-55396</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Morris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 04:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=4044#comment-55396</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have a question, no doubt already answered but as I am a noob in these things perhaps you will forgive me.

On the SD graph, the Northern Hemisphere temps appear remarkably flat in comparison with those attributed to earlier centuries.  Whats up with that?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a question, no doubt already answered but as I am a noob in these things perhaps you will forgive me.</p>
<p>On the SD graph, the Northern Hemisphere temps appear remarkably flat in comparison with those attributed to earlier centuries.  Whats up with that?</p>
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		<title>By: STAY WARM, WORLD&#8230; Roger Carr &#171; Stay Warm, World&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/07/a-test-of-climate-sun-and-culture-relationships-from-an-1810-year-chinese-cave-record/#comment-55395</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[STAY WARM, WORLD&#8230; Roger Carr &#171; Stay Warm, World&#8230;]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 03:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=4044#comment-55395</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...]    But it was not just me. This morning, Anthony Watts posted the following in Watts Up With That? “A Test of Climate, Sun, and Culture Relationships from an 1810-Year Chinese Cave Record”. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]    But it was not just me. This morning, Anthony Watts posted the following in Watts Up With That? “A Test of Climate, Sun, and Culture Relationships from an 1810-Year Chinese Cave Record”. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/07/a-test-of-climate-sun-and-culture-relationships-from-an-1810-year-chinese-cave-record/#comment-55382</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 02:44:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=4044#comment-55382</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Per Strandberg (18:00:43) :
&lt;i&gt;Also it can’t be the Sun today, as the TSI haven’t varied much since 1960. Apparently it varied much more during the warming during the early part of the 20 th century. It must do that to fit the AGW agenda, so no proof is necessary.&lt;/i&gt;
And in addition the TSI didn&#039;t vary much more during the early part of the 20th century: http://www.leif.org/research/GC31B-0351-F2007.pdf]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Per Strandberg (18:00:43) :<br />
<i>Also it can’t be the Sun today, as the TSI haven’t varied much since 1960. Apparently it varied much more during the warming during the early part of the 20 th century. It must do that to fit the AGW agenda, so no proof is necessary.</i><br />
And in addition the TSI didn&#8217;t vary much more during the early part of the 20th century: <a href="http://www.leif.org/research/GC31B-0351-F2007.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.leif.org/research/GC31B-0351-F2007.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Smokey</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/07/a-test-of-climate-sun-and-culture-relationships-from-an-1810-year-chinese-cave-record/#comment-55381</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Smokey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 02:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=4044#comment-55381</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;Joel Shore&lt;/b&gt; said:

&lt;blockquote&gt;I don’t see anywhere in the study any claim whatsoever that temps during the MWP were warmer than today.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The contrived disappearance of the MWP isn&#039;t just a discredited Michael Mann talking point; if the MWP occurred, then the entire AGW edifice comes crashing down.

That&#039;s why the alarmists can not admit its existence.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Joel Shore</b> said:</p>
<blockquote><p>I don’t see anywhere in the study any claim whatsoever that temps during the MWP were warmer than today.</p></blockquote>
<p>The contrived disappearance of the MWP isn&#8217;t just a discredited Michael Mann talking point; if the MWP occurred, then the entire AGW edifice comes crashing down.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why the alarmists can not admit its existence.</p>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/07/a-test-of-climate-sun-and-culture-relationships-from-an-1810-year-chinese-cave-record/#comment-55378</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 02:38:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=4044#comment-55378</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[PearlandAggie (17:02:49) :
&lt;i&gt;does it look to you guys like there might be another SC23 spot forming just south of the solar equator?&lt;/i&gt;
It is dying. It was a SC23 spot on the backside of the Sun]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PearlandAggie (17:02:49) :<br />
<i>does it look to you guys like there might be another SC23 spot forming just south of the solar equator?</i><br />
It is dying. It was a SC23 spot on the backside of the Sun</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Norman</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/07/a-test-of-climate-sun-and-culture-relationships-from-an-1810-year-chinese-cave-record/#comment-55377</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff Norman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 02:21:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=4044#comment-55377</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[crosspatch (13:46:01) : 

And think of all the moisture released to the atmosphere at this time.  I personally believe that many alpine ice sheets are 10k to 12k years old (Kilimanjaro)  because they formed when the continental glaciers retreated.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>crosspatch (13:46:01) : </p>
<p>And think of all the moisture released to the atmosphere at this time.  I personally believe that many alpine ice sheets are 10k to 12k years old (Kilimanjaro)  because they formed when the continental glaciers retreated.</p>
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		<title>By: Per Strandberg</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/07/a-test-of-climate-sun-and-culture-relationships-from-an-1810-year-chinese-cave-record/#comment-55375</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Per Strandberg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 01:00:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=4044#comment-55375</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My god, a paper which links climate change to solar activity and acknowledge that The Medieval Warm Period and The Little Ice Age were not limited to the North Atlantic region.
Well, they still have to follow the AGW party line. Today apparently, trace gases such as CO2 and SO2 have replaced the Sun as the primary climate driver.
Of course they use the IPCC urban heat island contaminated temperature reconstruction for recent temperature variations.
Also it can’t be the Sun today, as the TSI haven’t varied much since 1960. Apparently it varied much more during the warming during the early part of the 20 th century. It must do that to fit the AGW agenda, so no proof is necessary.
It can’t be caused by indirect solar activity variations, to say so is heresy.

This might be of interest for you!
I have found a similar paper which shows the same thing.
“Century-Scale Mega-Droughts in India During the Holocene”
This paper can be found in this collection:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mesh.usc.edu/files/HPIM_Research_Summaries.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.mesh.usc.edu/files/HPIM_Research_Summaries.pdf&lt;/a&gt;


The data were collected from caves in India. The paper links solar activity to climate variations. This paper also shows that periods of reduction in the monsoon are linked to period with cold climate such as that during the Little Ice Age. This makes the threat of reduced food production not only a threat for lower food production in temperate regions but also a threat for food production in the high population countries of India and China during periods of colder climate.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My god, a paper which links climate change to solar activity and acknowledge that The Medieval Warm Period and The Little Ice Age were not limited to the North Atlantic region.<br />
Well, they still have to follow the AGW party line. Today apparently, trace gases such as CO2 and SO2 have replaced the Sun as the primary climate driver.<br />
Of course they use the IPCC urban heat island contaminated temperature reconstruction for recent temperature variations.<br />
Also it can’t be the Sun today, as the TSI haven’t varied much since 1960. Apparently it varied much more during the warming during the early part of the 20 th century. It must do that to fit the AGW agenda, so no proof is necessary.<br />
It can’t be caused by indirect solar activity variations, to say so is heresy.</p>
<p>This might be of interest for you!<br />
I have found a similar paper which shows the same thing.<br />
“Century-Scale Mega-Droughts in India During the Holocene”<br />
This paper can be found in this collection:<br />
<a href="http://www.mesh.usc.edu/files/HPIM_Research_Summaries.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.mesh.usc.edu/files/HPIM_Research_Summaries.pdf</a></p>
<p>The data were collected from caves in India. The paper links solar activity to climate variations. This paper also shows that periods of reduction in the monsoon are linked to period with cold climate such as that during the Little Ice Age. This makes the threat of reduced food production not only a threat for lower food production in temperate regions but also a threat for food production in the high population countries of India and China during periods of colder climate.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff L</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/07/a-test-of-climate-sun-and-culture-relationships-from-an-1810-year-chinese-cave-record/#comment-55374</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff L]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 00:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=4044#comment-55374</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As a geologist, I can say that as a profession, we have a better appreciation of climate change than anyone. We know that it has always been changing, often much more dramatically than we see in recent times. As it has been changing continually through geologic time, there is no reason to suspect that what ever forcing mechanisms that are out there have suddenly disappeared. Yet, despite that indisputable fact, natural forcing mechanism are completely dismissed by the AGW crowd - no attempt what so ever to recognize this well established fact. It is a fundamental flaw in their agrument. You can&#039;t say that CO2 is the forcing mechanism unless you can show how all other forcing mechanism effects can be separated from the total signal. It&#039;s called separation of variables &amp; it is a basic scientific principle that even a high school science student would know.  This is also why very few geologists subscribe to the AGW theory - they have the historical record of natural climate variation burnt into their brains.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a geologist, I can say that as a profession, we have a better appreciation of climate change than anyone. We know that it has always been changing, often much more dramatically than we see in recent times. As it has been changing continually through geologic time, there is no reason to suspect that what ever forcing mechanisms that are out there have suddenly disappeared. Yet, despite that indisputable fact, natural forcing mechanism are completely dismissed by the AGW crowd &#8211; no attempt what so ever to recognize this well established fact. It is a fundamental flaw in their agrument. You can&#8217;t say that CO2 is the forcing mechanism unless you can show how all other forcing mechanism effects can be separated from the total signal. It&#8217;s called separation of variables &amp; it is a basic scientific principle that even a high school science student would know.  This is also why very few geologists subscribe to the AGW theory &#8211; they have the historical record of natural climate variation burnt into their brains.</p>
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		<title>By: hyonmin</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/07/a-test-of-climate-sun-and-culture-relationships-from-an-1810-year-chinese-cave-record/#comment-55373</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hyonmin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 00:34:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=4044#comment-55373</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting link from solarcycle 24
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_/ai_8290867
Suggests a connection between volcano eruptions and the solar cycle.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting link from solarcycle 24<br />
<a href="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_/ai_8290867" rel="nofollow">http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_/ai_8290867</a><br />
Suggests a connection between volcano eruptions and the solar cycle.</p>
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