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	<title>Comments on: Obama&#8217;s energy plan: bankrupt coal power plants, skyrocketing electricity rates</title>
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	<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/03/obamas-energy-plan-bankupt-coal-power-plants-skyrocketing-electricity-rates/</link>
	<description>The world&#039;s most viewed site on global warming and climate change</description>
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		<title>By: wattsupwiththat</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/03/obamas-energy-plan-bankupt-coal-power-plants-skyrocketing-electricity-rates/#comment-54893</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wattsupwiththat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 04:55:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3989#comment-54893</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And on that note, I&#039;ll close this thread. Back to Science.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And on that note, I&#8217;ll close this thread. Back to Science.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: anna v</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/03/obamas-energy-plan-bankupt-coal-power-plants-skyrocketing-electricity-rates/#comment-54892</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[anna v]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 04:47:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3989#comment-54892</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OK, people who live in the US. It is an Obama term.

As far as the global warming issue goes if I were a US citizen

 I would be looking to find people in his administration who would listen to correct science.

I would try to expand the spread of information to the scientific community: many scientists trust the scientific integrity of scientists outside their field. If they become aware of how things are in IPCC climatology they will join the skeptics in droves.

And for those of you on the losing side, cheer up. What you call socialism in the US is barely liberal for Europe, the US is a great country and it was necessary that the pendulum should shift towards taking care of the hoi polloi instead of just the corporations, which was the Bush administration&#039;s aim. 

Lets get back to science.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, people who live in the US. It is an Obama term.</p>
<p>As far as the global warming issue goes if I were a US citizen</p>
<p> I would be looking to find people in his administration who would listen to correct science.</p>
<p>I would try to expand the spread of information to the scientific community: many scientists trust the scientific integrity of scientists outside their field. If they become aware of how things are in IPCC climatology they will join the skeptics in droves.</p>
<p>And for those of you on the losing side, cheer up. What you call socialism in the US is barely liberal for Europe, the US is a great country and it was necessary that the pendulum should shift towards taking care of the hoi polloi instead of just the corporations, which was the Bush administration&#8217;s aim. </p>
<p>Lets get back to science.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Henry</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/03/obamas-energy-plan-bankupt-coal-power-plants-skyrocketing-electricity-rates/#comment-54891</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Patrick Henry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 04:38:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3989#comment-54891</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I can&#039;t help but wonder if the cheering audience in the background of this clip is insane, completely daft, or just doesn&#039;t understand what he is saying.  Same goes for the press corps who covered Obama.  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s

But at least we got thousands of critically important news stories about Tina Fey, Palin&#039;s wardrobe, her daughter&#039;s dating habits and non-Troopergate.  Obama&#039;s KGB proposal really isn&#039;t important by comparison.

&lt;i&gt;&quot;We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we&#039;ve set. &lt;b&gt;We&#039;ve got to have a civilian national security force that&#039;s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.&quot;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t help but wonder if the cheering audience in the background of this clip is insane, completely daft, or just doesn&#8217;t understand what he is saying.  Same goes for the press corps who covered Obama.<br />
<span style="text-align:center; display: block;"><a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/03/obamas-energy-plan-bankupt-coal-power-plants-skyrocketing-electricity-rates/"><img src="http://img.youtube.com/vi/Tt2yGzHfy7s/2.jpg" alt="" /></a></span></p>
<p>But at least we got thousands of critically important news stories about Tina Fey, Palin&#8217;s wardrobe, her daughter&#8217;s dating habits and non-Troopergate.  Obama&#8217;s KGB proposal really isn&#8217;t important by comparison.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we&#8217;ve set. <b>We&#8217;ve got to have a civilian national security force that&#8217;s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.&#8221;</b></i></p>
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		<title>By: F Rasmin</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/03/obamas-energy-plan-bankupt-coal-power-plants-skyrocketing-electricity-rates/#comment-54890</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[F Rasmin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 04:36:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3989#comment-54890</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is 2.30pm  5th November here in Australia and I see that the American Empire has just gone down the plug -hole. The new world empire is to the north of us:China! Thanks for your help in WWII. We will not forget, so give us a call soon for us to return the favour (Taiwan shoulds be taken over very soon).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is 2.30pm  5th November here in Australia and I see that the American Empire has just gone down the plug -hole. The new world empire is to the north of us:China! Thanks for your help in WWII. We will not forget, so give us a call soon for us to return the favour (Taiwan shoulds be taken over very soon).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Smokey</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/03/obamas-energy-plan-bankupt-coal-power-plants-skyrocketing-electricity-rates/#comment-54881</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Smokey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 02:19:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3989#comment-54881</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For some needed relief, here&#039;s McCain getting savaged by Obama, who leads off the debate [and note that the moderator clearly favors Obama]: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l63SRpGXBHE&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;clicky&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For some needed relief, here&#8217;s McCain getting savaged by Obama, who leads off the debate [and note that the moderator clearly favors Obama]: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l63SRpGXBHE" rel="nofollow">clicky</a></p>
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		<title>By: deepslope</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/03/obamas-energy-plan-bankupt-coal-power-plants-skyrocketing-electricity-rates/#comment-54879</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[deepslope]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 02:16:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3989#comment-54879</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[this thread is a peculiar diversion for WUWT - but i applaud Sir Anthony&#039;s statemenship in countering below-the-belt attacks - and my hat is off to Pamela Gray!

a Canadian not-born-there]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this thread is a peculiar diversion for WUWT &#8211; but i applaud Sir Anthony&#8217;s statemenship in countering below-the-belt attacks &#8211; and my hat is off to Pamela Gray!</p>
<p>a Canadian not-born-there</p>
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		<title>By: Pamela Gray</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/03/obamas-energy-plan-bankupt-coal-power-plants-skyrocketing-electricity-rates/#comment-54877</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pamela Gray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 02:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3989#comment-54877</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hair dye???  My, my how the conversation has deteriorated.  On both sides.  I happen to like Sarah Palin.  I don&#039;t agree with her at all.  But she is one helluva gal.  Her biggest problem is that she has a blind spot and doesn&#039;t realize it (I can be nasty to whomever I want and it won&#039;t bite me in the butt kind of blind spot).  Bill Clinton had a similar blind spot (I can play around with any toy I want and it won&#039;t bite me in the butt kind of blind spot).  They both suffer from &quot;the rules are made for others, not for me&quot; mentality.  But as with Clinton who once had potential and then blew it, I think Sarah has potential, as long as she doesn&#039;t blow it.  Once she discovers her blind spot she will become a better world class leader.  Alas, I think her ego will get in the way and somewhere down the line, she will blow it.  But if she manages not to do that I will still not agree with her on many, many issues.  However, she has guts and leadership qualities I admire.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hair dye???  My, my how the conversation has deteriorated.  On both sides.  I happen to like Sarah Palin.  I don&#8217;t agree with her at all.  But she is one helluva gal.  Her biggest problem is that she has a blind spot and doesn&#8217;t realize it (I can be nasty to whomever I want and it won&#8217;t bite me in the butt kind of blind spot).  Bill Clinton had a similar blind spot (I can play around with any toy I want and it won&#8217;t bite me in the butt kind of blind spot).  They both suffer from &#8220;the rules are made for others, not for me&#8221; mentality.  But as with Clinton who once had potential and then blew it, I think Sarah has potential, as long as she doesn&#8217;t blow it.  Once she discovers her blind spot she will become a better world class leader.  Alas, I think her ego will get in the way and somewhere down the line, she will blow it.  But if she manages not to do that I will still not agree with her on many, many issues.  However, she has guts and leadership qualities I admire.</p>
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		<title>By: Ric Werme</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/03/obamas-energy-plan-bankupt-coal-power-plants-skyrocketing-electricity-rates/#comment-54875</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ric Werme]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 01:51:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3989#comment-54875</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Patrick Henry (06:39:33) :

&lt;blockquote&gt;
    I have been in the scientific community my entire life. Many scientists fundamentally consider the outside world to be intellectually inferior and fundamentally dangerous.
...
    But would you hire someone who is arrogant, consistently wrong, and considers himself unaccountable?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

No, I wouldn&#039;t hire James Hansen.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrick Henry (06:39:33) :</p>
<blockquote><p>
    I have been in the scientific community my entire life. Many scientists fundamentally consider the outside world to be intellectually inferior and fundamentally dangerous.<br />
&#8230;<br />
    But would you hire someone who is arrogant, consistently wrong, and considers himself unaccountable?
</p></blockquote>
<p>No, I wouldn&#8217;t hire James Hansen.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/03/obamas-energy-plan-bankupt-coal-power-plants-skyrocketing-electricity-rates/#comment-54873</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 01:45:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3989#comment-54873</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is a bit off topic, but I&#039;m hoping that someone with more scientific credentials can help me answer this. One thing Obama said is that he would work to classify CO2 as a &#039;dangerous pollutant&#039;. Well, over on TTAC there is a story about some MIT research that shows the possibility of using magnesium rich rock formations to absorb airborne CO2. Here is the link.  http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/rocks-in-your-tailpipe/

Assuming the research proves true, is the follow equation correct (posted from the same discussion)?
-------------
sean362880 :
November 4th, 2008 at 5:51 pm

Um…no.

Mass balance:
(2400 grams C / gallon)* (10 gal/tank )* (84 g/mol MgC03 / 12 g/mol C) = 168,000 g.

So you’re going to remove 168 kg of MgCO3 from your tailpipe after every 10-gallon tank? That’s neglecting the weight of all the other crap that was part of the raw mineral.

I think this is why they’re going for industrial application only.
----------------------------------------------]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a bit off topic, but I&#8217;m hoping that someone with more scientific credentials can help me answer this. One thing Obama said is that he would work to classify CO2 as a &#8216;dangerous pollutant&#8217;. Well, over on TTAC there is a story about some MIT research that shows the possibility of using magnesium rich rock formations to absorb airborne CO2. Here is the link.  <a href="http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/rocks-in-your-tailpipe/" rel="nofollow">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/rocks-in-your-tailpipe/</a></p>
<p>Assuming the research proves true, is the follow equation correct (posted from the same discussion)?<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-<br />
sean362880 :<br />
November 4th, 2008 at 5:51 pm</p>
<p>Um…no.</p>
<p>Mass balance:<br />
(2400 grams C / gallon)* (10 gal/tank )* (84 g/mol MgC03 / 12 g/mol C) = 168,000 g.</p>
<p>So you’re going to remove 168 kg of MgCO3 from your tailpipe after every 10-gallon tank? That’s neglecting the weight of all the other crap that was part of the raw mineral.</p>
<p>I think this is why they’re going for industrial application only.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
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		<title>By: John D.</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/03/obamas-energy-plan-bankupt-coal-power-plants-skyrocketing-electricity-rates/#comment-54872</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John D.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 01:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3989#comment-54872</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Evan Jones,

You are obviously a better historian than I. You are right, Cheney-Bush are not alone on the list of potential tyrrants!

Thanks for the insight.

John D.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evan Jones,</p>
<p>You are obviously a better historian than I. You are right, Cheney-Bush are not alone on the list of potential tyrrants!</p>
<p>Thanks for the insight.</p>
<p>John D.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: evanjones</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/03/obamas-energy-plan-bankupt-coal-power-plants-skyrocketing-electricity-rates/#comment-54871</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[evanjones]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 01:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3989#comment-54871</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, I am not holding out much hope. OTOH, none of the McCain must-win states have been called yet, so it ain&#039;t over. We&#039;ll see.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I am not holding out much hope. OTOH, none of the McCain must-win states have been called yet, so it ain&#8217;t over. We&#8217;ll see.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Graeme Rodaughan</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/03/obamas-energy-plan-bankupt-coal-power-plants-skyrocketing-electricity-rates/#comment-54870</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Graeme Rodaughan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 01:22:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3989#comment-54870</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To the Anti-Sceptics who sometimes visit this blog.

Doubt is a virtue as it helps you avoid the scams and schemes of conmen and charlatans and to honestly assess your own beliefs and behaviours.

Effective Scepticism is the systematic application of Doubt to (1) identify Assumptions. (2) Question and Test Assumptions, and (3) Weed out the Assumptions that don&#039;t stand up in the face of rigourous multi-faceted testing.

We all carry around untested assumptions that form part of our world view and hence part of our indentity.

Testing our assumptions is hard work, and can be painful and frightening when dearly held beliefs are found to be wanting. Hence the general lack of popularity for actually doing scepticism.

The alternative is to leave yourself open to self-deception and the well spun schemes of conmen, charlatans and other intra-species predators...

We live in a culture that valorises belief and in which doubt is pretty much a four letter word. This plays into the hands of those who are happy to manipulate others for gain.

Watch out for belief and the quest for certainty as there is little that is truly certain in this world and certainty is often little more than a security blanket to mask fear.

I would suggest a balance of healthy doubt coupled with a strong sense of faith in yourself and the underlying values of personal liberty and independence that underpin your (US) community as providing an effective stance for dealing with lifes uncertainties.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To the Anti-Sceptics who sometimes visit this blog.</p>
<p>Doubt is a virtue as it helps you avoid the scams and schemes of conmen and charlatans and to honestly assess your own beliefs and behaviours.</p>
<p>Effective Scepticism is the systematic application of Doubt to (1) identify Assumptions. (2) Question and Test Assumptions, and (3) Weed out the Assumptions that don&#8217;t stand up in the face of rigourous multi-faceted testing.</p>
<p>We all carry around untested assumptions that form part of our world view and hence part of our indentity.</p>
<p>Testing our assumptions is hard work, and can be painful and frightening when dearly held beliefs are found to be wanting. Hence the general lack of popularity for actually doing scepticism.</p>
<p>The alternative is to leave yourself open to self-deception and the well spun schemes of conmen, charlatans and other intra-species predators&#8230;</p>
<p>We live in a culture that valorises belief and in which doubt is pretty much a four letter word. This plays into the hands of those who are happy to manipulate others for gain.</p>
<p>Watch out for belief and the quest for certainty as there is little that is truly certain in this world and certainty is often little more than a security blanket to mask fear.</p>
<p>I would suggest a balance of healthy doubt coupled with a strong sense of faith in yourself and the underlying values of personal liberty and independence that underpin your (US) community as providing an effective stance for dealing with lifes uncertainties.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: JimB</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/03/obamas-energy-plan-bankupt-coal-power-plants-skyrocketing-electricity-rates/#comment-54862</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JimB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 00:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3989#comment-54862</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Vaughn (16:28:38) : 

&quot;I understand that the G.O.P. thinks we can just do whatever to whoever, whenever we want, but that is not reality. &quot;

I have no idea where this even comes from.  But I don&#039;t believe it comes from any form of research...sounds kind of like a MSM soundbite to me.

&quot;Let’s wake up America and figure out that there are some major problems ahead of not only our country, but globally. &quot;

I think that&#039;s what&#039;s been said for several years now regarding AGW, or ACC, whatever the new initials are.

&quot;Fortunately we are electing a man that can remember what he said yesterday ...as opposed to McCain.&quot;   

Yes..the guy who was going to visit ALL 57 states to make sure they all got the message.

&quot;Who’s best judgment has been to nominate a V.P. that I’m pretty sure dyes her hair brown so that she does come across as a complete air head.&quot;

Ok...I&#039;d say that pretty much sums up the level of intelligence you&#039;ve brought to the table :*)

Thanks for playing the home game.

Jim]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vaughn (16:28:38) : </p>
<p>&#8220;I understand that the G.O.P. thinks we can just do whatever to whoever, whenever we want, but that is not reality. &#8221;</p>
<p>I have no idea where this even comes from.  But I don&#8217;t believe it comes from any form of research&#8230;sounds kind of like a MSM soundbite to me.</p>
<p>&#8220;Let’s wake up America and figure out that there are some major problems ahead of not only our country, but globally. &#8221;</p>
<p>I think that&#8217;s what&#8217;s been said for several years now regarding AGW, or ACC, whatever the new initials are.</p>
<p>&#8220;Fortunately we are electing a man that can remember what he said yesterday &#8230;as opposed to McCain.&#8221;   </p>
<p>Yes..the guy who was going to visit ALL 57 states to make sure they all got the message.</p>
<p>&#8220;Who’s best judgment has been to nominate a V.P. that I’m pretty sure dyes her hair brown so that she does come across as a complete air head.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ok&#8230;I&#8217;d say that pretty much sums up the level of intelligence you&#8217;ve brought to the table :*)</p>
<p>Thanks for playing the home game.</p>
<p>Jim</p>
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		<title>By: Steynian 279 &#171; Free Canuckistan!</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/03/obamas-energy-plan-bankupt-coal-power-plants-skyrocketing-electricity-rates/#comment-54859</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steynian 279 &#171; Free Canuckistan!]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 00:36:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3989#comment-54859</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] THE MESSIAH CONTRA COAL: Please connect the dots; Obama’s energy plan: bankrupt coal power plants, skyrocketing electricity rates, brownouts ahead &#8230;. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] THE MESSIAH CONTRA COAL: Please connect the dots; Obama’s energy plan: bankrupt coal power plants, skyrocketing electricity rates, brownouts ahead &#8230;. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Patrick Henry</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/11/03/obamas-energy-plan-bankupt-coal-power-plants-skyrocketing-electricity-rates/#comment-54852</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Patrick Henry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 23:58:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3989#comment-54852</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Anyone who has worked at a National Lab in the last 40 years knows that since Proxmire, science and politics are completely inseparable.  They are funded by Congress.

I put my protest bumper sticker on the car last night - &quot;Palin 2012.&quot;  McCain will go down in history as having run the worst Republican campaign in modern history.  Mondale would be proud.

I can&#039;t wait until Obama starts telling my community what we &lt;i&gt;have&lt;/i&gt; to do to make ourselves acceptable to Europeans  The courtship phase is over.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone who has worked at a National Lab in the last 40 years knows that since Proxmire, science and politics are completely inseparable.  They are funded by Congress.</p>
<p>I put my protest bumper sticker on the car last night &#8211; &#8220;Palin 2012.&#8221;  McCain will go down in history as having run the worst Republican campaign in modern history.  Mondale would be proud.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t wait until Obama starts telling my community what we <i>have</i> to do to make ourselves acceptable to Europeans  The courtship phase is over.</p>
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