Comments on: Arctic sea ice continues rebound

By: MG

MG — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 18:17:42 +0000

Narwhal open season as ice closes so fast they are trapped:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081127.wnarwhal27/BNStory/National/home

By: Karl

Karl — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 15:51:21 +0000

I’ve been checking back in on this graphical representation of data since I first came across this post. This morning, the message below instead of graphs.

Forbidden
You don’t have permission to access /vhost/arctic-roos.org/doc/observations/images/ssmi1_ice_area.png on this server.

Looks like the WUWT auto-update runs into the same roadblock. Hopefully a temporary circumstance?

By: The North Pole May Be Ice-Free This Arctic Summer. - Page 2 - AVForums.com

The North Pole May Be Ice-Free This Arctic Summer. - Page 2 - AVForums.com — Sat, 15 Nov 2008 15:06:57 +0000

[...] it didn’t happen. At present it is back within normal range. We are all safe again after all!!! Arctic sea ice continues rebound � Watts Up With That? The top chart is the one to look at. __________________ My opinions expressed here do not [...]

By: MikeP

MikeP — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 23:02:00 +0000

Interesting that after I posted here, the 11/13 daily ice image changed. The daily graph on the right still looks the same though.

By: MikeP

MikeP — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:23:12 +0000

I know that this is likely to be buried, but with no more recent ice topics … Does anyone know what is going on over at NSIDC? They not only show that the “ice extent” has stopped growing, but they show such things as the Kara Sea being largely ice free (< 15%). This is in complete contradiction, both to what one would expect for this season and regional images such as at Cryosphere Today. It’s also in apparent contradiction with the Nansen Sea Ice graphs (although they haven’t been updated in a few days). Has NSDIC gotten stuck?

By: Curious

Curious — Sat, 08 Nov 2008 17:08:01 +0000

On the AMSR-E Sea Ice Extent graphic on the sidebar of the main page, there is a “blip” that occurs every June. What is it?

By: Dale

Dale — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 09:28:07 +0000

Man can NOT change the weather ONLY GOD can!! This Global warming is a bunch of crap !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By: David

David — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 07:36:27 +0000

Pamela, I think Cryosphere gives density, as in 100% ice, no open water, or 80% ice, 20% open water. Thickness is not given in the color graphic.

By: Pamela Gray

Pamela Gray — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 03:17:40 +0000

I have been looking at the color coding regarding ice concentrations on Cryosphere Today and it appears to me that the Arctic is filling up with ice that is quite a bit thicker than has been the case for a few years. Or am I misinterpreting the data?

By: Ron de Haan

Ron de Haan — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 01:01:05 +0000

I have found this article about thicker than normal ice thickness on lakes and rivers in Fairbanks Alaska:

http://newsminer.com/news/2008/nov/06/colder-october-temperatures-generate-thicker-ice-r/

I know it’s just a local message.

They had their 4th coldest October since 1904 collecting 600 degree Celcius freezing days (normal 290).

Ice thickness 12 to 15 inch

By: An Inquirer

An Inquirer — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 16:37:42 +0000

It now looks like as of November 5th that the Antarctica positive ice anomaly offsets the Arctic negative anomaly so that total world ice should be back to the 1979-2000 mean — which I think an honest appraisal would say has an upwardly biased mean.

By: Sekerob

Sekerob — Wed, 05 Nov 2008 06:36:47 +0000

Whatever Extent is meant to be, take out the magnifier and align with binoculars to see but a fingernail thickness of difference these last few days, BUT 2007, and only data from 2002-2008. Visit NSIDC NOAA to see how the state is comparing to 1979-2000 and how far away from the mean.

http://www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/seaice/extent/AMSRE_Sea_Ice_Extent.png

http://www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/en/home/seaice_extent.htm

Depends on the “weather” in the coming months and what heat comes up from below. Salinity was up puting the average freezing point of sea water at -1.77C

By: Colin Aldridge

Colin Aldridge — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 17:44:46 +0000

One way of looking at Ice extent is to look at when we got to this area of ice in recent years. In 2006 it look till the end November and in 2007 the 20th November to reach the current 2008( 1st November) area.

Does this means that the 2008 one year ice will have a longer period to thicken and will therefore take longer to melt in summer 2009 I wonder?

By: Michael Hauber

Michael Hauber — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 22:41:21 +0000

Apologies Phil, I meant spring as September and forgot to turn the seasons ‘right way up’ from my Aussie version, and should have said 1 million square k increase since Autumn

By: SteveSadlov

SteveSadlov — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 21:02:09 +0000

I’m referring to area, not extent. Although, once the area fills in, extent will want to increase in areas outside the immediate Arctic Basin.

By: SteveSadlov

SteveSadlov — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 21:00:40 +0000

There is nearly no chance of it going asymptotic to the mean value. It will shoot past it, unless something really weird happens.

By: Phil.

Phil. — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 19:57:32 +0000

Steven Goddard (11:40:00) :
Phil,

I said nothing about air temperatures. The ice thickness data is consistent with the temperature/depth data. Ice temperatures are colder than last year. There is no indication that the buoy is misbehaving. Ice is growing in all three dimensions must faster than last year.

Indeed, I misread your remark on temperature, however the ice temperature shown at that site is significantly colder than its near neighbours which only adds to the suspicions about that buoy. Contrary to your assertion there is reason to believe that that buoy is misbehaving.

I take it that Anthony will take the usual counter-measures against your abusive remarks?

By: Steven Goddard

Steven Goddard — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 18:40:00 +0000

Phil,

Stop the FUD. You are just generating needless CO2 and other noxious greenhouse gases.

By: Phil.

Phil. — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 17:16:27 +0000

Michael Hauber (21:30:35) :
Phil (18:35:32)

Which graph are you looking at, that’s only true if you’re an Aussie?

The ‘tale of the tape’

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/sea.ice.anomaly.timeseries.jpg

Unless by spring you mean September (i.e. you’re an Aussie) then I don’t know where you see this:
Cryosphere Today Area anomaly shows an increase of 1 million square kilometres since early spring.

By: Phil.

Phil. — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 15:21:06 +0000

Phil. (20:40:54) :
Steven Goddard (19:37:26) :
There is a major difference in Arctic ice behavior this year compared to 2007. This military buoy shows ice thickness of 1.6 meters and increasing rapidly. In 2007 the minimum summer ice thickness was the same (1.1m,) but thickness didn’t reach 1.6 meters until the end of January.

Trouble is that buoy depth meter is malfunctioning.

REPLY: How do you know that? Where is that referenced from?- Anthony

A couple of reasons: that meter has been behaving strangely for a couple of years, at the maximum the signal flattened out last year at ~1.1, even the noise was truncated, this year it flattened in the same way at exactly the same value. Earlier this fall that buoy stopped updating for ~1 month and then recently started down in a noise free straight line (similar behaviour to that seen in some buoys on rapidly melting ice in the Beaufort sea (http://www.crrel.usace.army.mil/sid/IMB/buoy_plots/ice2007E.gif)
Contrary to Goddard’s statement the air temperature history is similar to last year’s, if anything early October was warmer this year (bear in mind the buoy’s not in the same location as last year).
http://www.crrel.usace.army.mil/sid/IMB/buoy_plots/met2006C.gif
All of the above leads me to think that the ice-depth meter on that buoy has not been performing properly for some time (I’ve posted about it here before). One possibility is that the buoy has drifted towards the coast which may result in folding but that wouldn’t explain the ‘flatness’.