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	<title>Comments on: How not to measure temperature part 72: Italian Style</title>
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	<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/10/04/how-not-to-measure-temperature-italian-style/</link>
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		<title>By: Valdis Kletnieks</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/10/04/how-not-to-measure-temperature-italian-style/#comment-47250</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Valdis Kletnieks]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 21:37:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3462#comment-47250</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dr. Scali: I am glad to hear that you were able to accept the gift of a fine weatherstation, *and* be able to place it in an easily visible location so it could be used in your teaching.

And to the rest of you: Remember to keep in mind that when something looks foolish, it often  is foolish, but sometimes there&#039;s a very good and rational reason which you are simply not privy to....

&lt;strong&gt;REPLY:&lt;/strong&gt; Point taken, how about showing us your weather station at the University of Vermont? - Anthony]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Scali: I am glad to hear that you were able to accept the gift of a fine weatherstation, *and* be able to place it in an easily visible location so it could be used in your teaching.</p>
<p>And to the rest of you: Remember to keep in mind that when something looks foolish, it often  is foolish, but sometimes there&#8217;s a very good and rational reason which you are simply not privy to&#8230;.</p>
<p><strong>REPLY:</strong> Point taken, how about showing us your weather station at the University of Vermont? &#8211; Anthony</p>
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		<title>By: Paolo M.</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/10/04/how-not-to-measure-temperature-italian-style/#comment-47067</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paolo M.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 10:32:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3462#comment-47067</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Guido Guidi,
since you work for the meteorological service of the Italian air force and the weather stations your military institution manage (along with the civil air traffic controll) feed the italian part of the global climate monitor, I would ask if you can provide surfacestations the photos of circa 100 stations of the Italian network.

I do think that most of those stations are well sited, but a few example are quite bad and I have got some pictures of them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guido Guidi,<br />
since you work for the meteorological service of the Italian air force and the weather stations your military institution manage (along with the civil air traffic controll) feed the italian part of the global climate monitor, I would ask if you can provide surfacestations the photos of circa 100 stations of the Italian network.</p>
<p>I do think that most of those stations are well sited, but a few example are quite bad and I have got some pictures of them.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Alberts</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/10/04/how-not-to-measure-temperature-italian-style/#comment-46850</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff Alberts]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 22:16:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3462#comment-46850</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;If the second station is properly placed and installed, we can be confident in our assumptions regarding differences and accuracy. I don’t know why anyone would question this and, I am unclear as to your objective.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I was merely saying that having the monitoring equipment so close to the building would most likely not give them accurate results, unless the goal was to measure the effects of the building on local climate.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If the second station is properly placed and installed, we can be confident in our assumptions regarding differences and accuracy. I don’t know why anyone would question this and, I am unclear as to your objective.</p></blockquote>
<p>I was merely saying that having the monitoring equipment so close to the building would most likely not give them accurate results, unless the goal was to measure the effects of the building on local climate.</p>
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		<title>By: omnologos</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/10/04/how-not-to-measure-temperature-italian-style/#comment-46845</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[omnologos]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 21:46:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3462#comment-46845</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dr. Scali: it&#039;s a great chance to improve the education of the BioLab students by organizing a workshop on what is wrong with the present siting, and what solutions could be implemented to improve the reliability of the Palazzo Dugnani weather station!

Una buona opportunita&#039;, tutto sommato, per approfittare delle circostanze e arricchire l&#039;educazione degli studenti del BioLab, organizzando un gruppo di lavoro su cosa c&#039;e&#039; di sbagliato nell&#039;attuale locazione della stazione meteo di Palazzo Dugnani, e per trovare soluzioni che possano migliorare l&#039;attendibilita&#039; delle letture!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Scali: it&#8217;s a great chance to improve the education of the BioLab students by organizing a workshop on what is wrong with the present siting, and what solutions could be implemented to improve the reliability of the Palazzo Dugnani weather station!</p>
<p>Una buona opportunita&#8217;, tutto sommato, per approfittare delle circostanze e arricchire l&#8217;educazione degli studenti del BioLab, organizzando un gruppo di lavoro su cosa c&#8217;e&#8217; di sbagliato nell&#8217;attuale locazione della stazione meteo di Palazzo Dugnani, e per trovare soluzioni che possano migliorare l&#8217;attendibilita&#8217; delle letture!</p>
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		<title>By: Guido Guidi</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/10/04/how-not-to-measure-temperature-italian-style/#comment-46588</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Guido Guidi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 10:41:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3462#comment-46588</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Stefano Scali - I did not pay attention to your post, becouse I simply didn&#039;t know that you wrote something about this matter. But anyway, I do apologize if you felt yourself and the museum itself somewhat offendend by my comment. This discussion, at least for my little contribution, is on the strange habit to put weather stations in wrong places. Since I know that the data of your station are not in any official database, as a gift, you can obviously make exactly what you want with it. At the same time my words about the possibility to make a public use of those data were simply an example of something that happens pretty often. Since this is not the case, it remains simply what it was, a joke on a serious (speaking about climate) problem.
Guido Guidi]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stefano Scali &#8211; I did not pay attention to your post, becouse I simply didn&#8217;t know that you wrote something about this matter. But anyway, I do apologize if you felt yourself and the museum itself somewhat offendend by my comment. This discussion, at least for my little contribution, is on the strange habit to put weather stations in wrong places. Since I know that the data of your station are not in any official database, as a gift, you can obviously make exactly what you want with it. At the same time my words about the possibility to make a public use of those data were simply an example of something that happens pretty often. Since this is not the case, it remains simply what it was, a joke on a serious (speaking about climate) problem.<br />
Guido Guidi</p>
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		<title>By: Stefano Scali</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/10/04/how-not-to-measure-temperature-italian-style/#comment-46569</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stefano Scali]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 07:41:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3462#comment-46569</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Guido Guidi - Maybe you did not pay attention to my post: we are NOT doing a climate monitoring and the director will not appear on newspapers or television to talk about it. It is simply a didactic instrument and it is not expensive for the community, because it was a gift given by a patron.


Jeff Alberts - We cannot place another station in the middle of the park because the park is not under our control and management, so this would be really expensive for the municipality.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guido Guidi &#8211; Maybe you did not pay attention to my post: we are NOT doing a climate monitoring and the director will not appear on newspapers or television to talk about it. It is simply a didactic instrument and it is not expensive for the community, because it was a gift given by a patron.</p>
<p>Jeff Alberts &#8211; We cannot place another station in the middle of the park because the park is not under our control and management, so this would be really expensive for the municipality.</p>
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		<title>By: garron</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/10/04/how-not-to-measure-temperature-italian-style/#comment-46562</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[garron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 06:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3462#comment-46562</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Jeff Alberts (11:32:58) :

That would seem to be the fault of Italian Americans who open restaurants failing to adequately represent the reality.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That and, significant differences in food processing practices, farming and so on.

&lt;blockquote&gt;As to the placement of the weather station. I still don’t see how getting possibly invalid data due to the building proximity is useful. Why not place another identical station in the middle of the park according to “accepted” siting standards and see if a difference develops between the two.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

If the second station is properly placed and installed, we can be confident in our assumptions regarding differences and accuracy.  I don&#039;t know why anyone would question this and, I am unclear as to your objective.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Jeff Alberts (11:32:58) :</p>
<p>That would seem to be the fault of Italian Americans who open restaurants failing to adequately represent the reality.
</p></blockquote>
<p>That and, significant differences in food processing practices, farming and so on.</p>
<blockquote><p>As to the placement of the weather station. I still don’t see how getting possibly invalid data due to the building proximity is useful. Why not place another identical station in the middle of the park according to “accepted” siting standards and see if a difference develops between the two.
</p></blockquote>
<p>If the second station is properly placed and installed, we can be confident in our assumptions regarding differences and accuracy.  I don&#8217;t know why anyone would question this and, I am unclear as to your objective.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: DaveE</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/10/04/how-not-to-measure-temperature-italian-style/#comment-46481</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DaveE]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 23:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3462#comment-46481</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Demesure (03:31:29) :

Typo in my previous post : “data back to the mid 1950″ should read “data back to the mid 1800s”

Did you note that he also did not make any back reference to it? Just mentioned it was there!

Dave E.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Demesure (03:31:29) :</p>
<p>Typo in my previous post : “data back to the mid 1950″ should read “data back to the mid 1800s”</p>
<p>Did you note that he also did not make any back reference to it? Just mentioned it was there!</p>
<p>Dave E.</p>
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		<title>By: DaveE</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/10/04/how-not-to-measure-temperature-italian-style/#comment-46474</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DaveE]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 23:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3462#comment-46474</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Anthony.
Any comment on these graphs please?
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/
They seem to be showing rapid increases in global temperature, contrary to what I see from anecdotal evidence, the 2 obviously do not coincide! Watt&#039;s the problem?
Sorry, couldn&#039;t resist the pun ;)
Dave E.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anthony.<br />
Any comment on these graphs please?<br />
<a href="http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/" rel="nofollow">http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/</a><br />
They seem to be showing rapid increases in global temperature, contrary to what I see from anecdotal evidence, the 2 obviously do not coincide! Watt&#8217;s the problem?<br />
Sorry, couldn&#8217;t resist the pun ;)<br />
Dave E.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Alberts</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/10/04/how-not-to-measure-temperature-italian-style/#comment-46424</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff Alberts]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 18:32:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3462#comment-46424</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Have you ever dinned American Italian? I spent about fours based out of Naples. Most Americans have no clue as to the wonders of real Italian.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That would seem to be the fault of Italian Americans who open restaurants failing to adequately represent the reality.

As to the placement of the weather station. I still don&#039;t see how getting possibly invalid data due to the building proximity is useful. Why not place another identical station in the middle of the park according to &quot;accepted&quot; siting standards and see if a difference develops between the two.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Have you ever dinned American Italian? I spent about fours based out of Naples. Most Americans have no clue as to the wonders of real Italian.</p></blockquote>
<p>That would seem to be the fault of Italian Americans who open restaurants failing to adequately represent the reality.</p>
<p>As to the placement of the weather station. I still don&#8217;t see how getting possibly invalid data due to the building proximity is useful. Why not place another identical station in the middle of the park according to &#8220;accepted&#8221; siting standards and see if a difference develops between the two.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Guido Guidi</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/10/04/how-not-to-measure-temperature-italian-style/#comment-46384</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Guido Guidi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 15:10:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3462#comment-46384</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Mr Watts, I&#039;ve been reading your blog since a long time and I&#039;ve used pretty often the information you leave on it on our blog www.climatemonitor.it.
This is a clear example of what should not be done, but you might be right, those instruments have been installed to monitor the garden climate. The problem is that one of these days we will see the Director of the museum on television or on a newspaper, telling us that the temps are dramatically riseing in Milan, thanks to their expensive monitoring. It would not be the first time.
Thanks for the great job you do with this blog.
Guido Guidi.

&lt;strong&gt;REPLY:&lt;/strong&gt; Guido, thank you for the kind words. - Anthony]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Mr Watts, I&#8217;ve been reading your blog since a long time and I&#8217;ve used pretty often the information you leave on it on our blog <a href="http://www.climatemonitor.it" rel="nofollow">http://www.climatemonitor.it</a>.<br />
This is a clear example of what should not be done, but you might be right, those instruments have been installed to monitor the garden climate. The problem is that one of these days we will see the Director of the museum on television or on a newspaper, telling us that the temps are dramatically riseing in Milan, thanks to their expensive monitoring. It would not be the first time.<br />
Thanks for the great job you do with this blog.<br />
Guido Guidi.</p>
<p><strong>REPLY:</strong> Guido, thank you for the kind words. &#8211; Anthony</p>
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		<title>By: garron</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/10/04/how-not-to-measure-temperature-italian-style/#comment-46338</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[garron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 12:44:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3462#comment-46338</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Comment on How not to measure temperature part 72: Italian Style by Stefano Scali
from Comments for Watts Up With That? by Stefano Scali

Your report is good news.  It still remains an excellent example of how not to -- &quot;&#039;do it.&quot;  :)

We have &quot;American styles&quot; of how not to &quot;do it&quot; all over the place.  

Have you ever dinned American Italian?  I spent about fours based out of Naples.  Most Americans have no clue as to the wonders of real Italian.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comment on How not to measure temperature part 72: Italian Style by Stefano Scali<br />
from Comments for Watts Up With That? by Stefano Scali</p>
<p>Your report is good news.  It still remains an excellent example of how not to &#8212; &#8220;&#8216;do it.&#8221;  :)</p>
<p>We have &#8220;American styles&#8221; of how not to &#8220;do it&#8221; all over the place.  </p>
<p>Have you ever dinned American Italian?  I spent about fours based out of Naples.  Most Americans have no clue as to the wonders of real Italian.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Audley</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/10/04/how-not-to-measure-temperature-italian-style/#comment-46331</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Martin Audley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 11:33:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3462#comment-46331</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jeff - Agreed, point taken.  My comment was masked by my weak attempt at humour.

Stefano - Thank you for taking the trouble to clarify the reasoning behind the siting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff &#8211; Agreed, point taken.  My comment was masked by my weak attempt at humour.</p>
<p>Stefano &#8211; Thank you for taking the trouble to clarify the reasoning behind the siting.</p>
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		<title>By: Stefano Scali</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/10/04/how-not-to-measure-temperature-italian-style/#comment-46302</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stefano Scali]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 08:51:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3462#comment-46302</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think that people should get some information before judging about the &quot;Italian style&quot;!
The weather station is part of an educational centre called BioLab that is part of the Natural History Museum of Milan (not Milan Natural Science Centre!), where I work as a curator. It is near the building (Palazzo Dugnani, not Dugnale!) because it must be visible to the students and preserved inside an area managed by the museum.
The station was given by a sponsor some years ago and it is used to explain the principles of climatology and air pollution to primary and secondary school students. It is not in an enclosure, but on open air.
We don&#039;t use it to monitor the greenhouse, because it is not a greenhouse no more, but a laboratory, where we also explain evolutionary processes, comparative anatomy, and other subjects related to biology.

As you can see, nothing concerning European monitoring network, goverment impositions, Versace threads, and other bullshit stuff. 
Mamma Mia!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that people should get some information before judging about the &#8220;Italian style&#8221;!<br />
The weather station is part of an educational centre called BioLab that is part of the Natural History Museum of Milan (not Milan Natural Science Centre!), where I work as a curator. It is near the building (Palazzo Dugnani, not Dugnale!) because it must be visible to the students and preserved inside an area managed by the museum.<br />
The station was given by a sponsor some years ago and it is used to explain the principles of climatology and air pollution to primary and secondary school students. It is not in an enclosure, but on open air.<br />
We don&#8217;t use it to monitor the greenhouse, because it is not a greenhouse no more, but a laboratory, where we also explain evolutionary processes, comparative anatomy, and other subjects related to biology.</p>
<p>As you can see, nothing concerning European monitoring network, goverment impositions, Versace threads, and other bullshit stuff.<br />
Mamma Mia!</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Alberts</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/10/04/how-not-to-measure-temperature-italian-style/#comment-46100</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff Alberts]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 14:26:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3462#comment-46100</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry, Martin, but you don&#039;t put a thermometer to measure greenhouse temps OUTSIDE the greenhouse. Serves no purpose. I&#039;ve worked in and been to many greenhouses, the thermostats to detect and control temperature are always inside...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, Martin, but you don&#8217;t put a thermometer to measure greenhouse temps OUTSIDE the greenhouse. Serves no purpose. I&#8217;ve worked in and been to many greenhouses, the thermostats to detect and control temperature are always inside&#8230;</p>
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