This sums the banking issue well.
“Is anyone even paying attention to these Wing Nut AGW people? With 1/2 of America worried about having to eat cat food during their retirement, global warming is the last thing on their mind.”
From “Jeff” in comments
He’s exactly right. This issue hasn’t placed in polling anyway. Now the next year or two, the economy will be most on the minds of people. Any policies regarding this issue will not get to far when its economic impacts are brought to light. But we must be careful, because something could slide under the radar. Due diligence from reps like Sen. Imhofe to keep this from happening.
Wait till you get a load of this…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/sep/30/food.ethicalliving
Start hoarding now! It’s just a matter of time.
Speaking of wingnuts and global warming:
“Meat must be rationed to four portions a week, says report on climate change.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/sep/30/food.ethicalliving
This is from a British paper. Its making it much easier to understand why our founders kicked the Brits out of our country.
Good point. The 1/2 that is concerned are too busy to give it a thought during their ‘discretionary’ time or are secure but on the economic margin.
There’s a banking crisis?
From Instapundit, I was led to this piece. It looks like somebody hasn’t gotten the message about the disaster:
http://www.bobkrumm.com/blog/?p=1940
So what kind of offer did I get today in the midst of this horrible financial crisis? I got four offers, the lowest of which was a 15-year fixed-rate VA mortgage of 6.0%, zero points and zero down, yielding a monthly payment of $948.20. Yes, that’s right, as bad as everyone says the economy is today, I can get the same mortgage as I had twelve years ago for about $250 a month less than I was paying 12 years ago in the midst of a “great” economy.
And from a Harvard economist {!!} who says they ought to just let ’em go belly up:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/29/miron.bailout/index.html?iref=mpstoryview
This crisis is sounding like the climate crisis. Nothing to see here. Move on. Move on.
“with 1/2 of America worried about having to eat cat food during their retirement”
The second half will be scrapping the empty cat food cans from the first 1/2.
maybe this unfortunate turn in the economy will cool off the rhetoric long enough that the current cooling trend will become evident even to the alarmists…
‘Slip under the radar’ is right. Just last week a dozen Northeastern states signed onto a ludicrous carbon cap-and-trade scheme with hardly a peep in the news. In Rhode Island the bigger news was that a company had been selected to build an off-shore windfarm ($2 billion of private investment was the claim, but no doubt there will be some tax breaks in there somewhere). Even bigger news was the State’s fiscal deficit.
If there’s a silver lining with this crisis caused by corrupt Washington lawmakers, it’s that this global warming fantasy and the let’s-play-rescue-the-planet action heros like Gore and Hansen will get no real attention.
With no credit and collapsing businesses, who is going to want to hear about higher energy prices?
Remember the Stern Report?
Remember how he warned the world economy would suffer immensly in 50 or 100 years because of manmade global warming?
LOL! Well, politicians have managed to screw it up completely all by themselves – and have done a far more extensive job of it than even an ice age could ever muster.
Economic crisis in 50 years…what a joke.
Paulson is a AGW nut. Somehow, this fact keeps getting overlooked.
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=144182
Bill Anderson predicts “Second, this will be the way that energy leftists take control of the system. It will be much more difficult for power companies to get financing of their projects that people like Al Gore claim are not politically-correct. Instead, they will direct investments toward those projects that never would make it in a free market.” (http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/023160.html)
AGW isn’t going away, even if it’s temporarily out of sight.
One could make the argument that many of the people who brought you the anti-government-regulation extremism that is to blame for the current problems in the financial markets are the ones who are arguing against any government intervention in the markets in the case of climate change!
Perhaps the lesson from this is that, although the market system works well when used carefully as a tool, it cannot just be left unregulated as a matter of religious faith in “free markets” as many of the libertarians and conservatives seem to want.
David Segesta (11:12:48) :
Speaking of wingnuts and global warming:
Luckily the comments show how much “faith” the common man has and that is the Guardian readership who have been fed from the AGW spoon for a long time. Even the Mirror readers – not the brightest needles in the haystack – are on to the scam.
The big question is, will the voice of the people get heard over the clamour of the clowns?
David Segesta Said:
This is from a British paper. Its making it much easier to understand why our founders kicked the Brits out of our country.
Any room for a Brit who’s a little tired of Brittain over there? 🙂
DaveM (11:12:02) :
” Wait till you get a load of this…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/sep/30/food.ethicalliving
Start hoarding now! It’s just a matter of time. ”
” Future recommended diet (average person, per WEEK)
– 500g of meat and 1 litre of milk, which is equivalent to:
– – 1 quarter-pound beefburger
– – 2 sausages
– – 3 rashers of bacon
– 1 chicken breast
– 1 litre of milk OR 100g of cheese ”
If Winston Smith can live on this, then so can we.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Smith
How about this one then – ignore the I believe in global warming bit at the beginning http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article4849167.ece
Ray (11:18:30) :
“with 1/2 of America worried about having to eat cat food during their retirement”
The second half will be scrapping the empty cat food cans from the first 1/2.”
ATTENTION COMRADE:
Cat Food counts against your weekly Climate Ration of 500 grams of meat, so eat it sparingly.
We suggest extending it with Catfood Helper.
This crisis is sounding like the climate crisis. Nothing to see here.
I wish that were true. But the 3rd quarter ends tonight, and per the new FASB rules that went into effect late last year, banks are going to have to mark to market with any of these questionable securities they hold — meaning, they’re worthless. There is no market.
We’re about to find out in the coming weeks which banks are solvent and which aren’t. And this is where it starts hitting the fan.
Climate crisis? Eh…..see page G15. That’s why they’re resorting to more desperate tactics to stay in the news.
They will also have to burn all that expensive furniture acquired through the years to stay warm.
Joel Shore:”Perhaps the lesson from this is that, although the market system works well when used carefully as a tool, it cannot just be left unregulated as a matter of religious faith in “free markets” as many of the libertarians and conservatives seem to want”
It was the pressure applied by the Clinton administration to give loans to low income people that started the crisis. This government interference is not how the free market works. This was all done under the idea that big conservative banks were only lending money to people who could meet strick requirements and it wasn’t “fair” to those who couldn’t.
Liberal “fairness” doctrine once again screws things up. Sub-prime loans only make up about 5% of the market. There is plenty of mortgage money to lend to those who can fully document their income, who have a history of paying debts on time and who meet the 24/36 % income ratios. People making bad decisions isn’t the fault of a free market. Bailing them out so there is no consequence to those decisions just encourages more bad decision making.
Joel Shore – you have your facts wrong about regulation and the current financial crisis which results more from governmental skewing of free market principles than it does from regulation. Between the mandated lending to poor credit risks (Fannie Mae and Freddie Mack) and the Federal Reserve’s mishandling of interest rates, this mess was set up to occur. I’ll agree that the derivative investments went unregulated in terms of being bought on extremely low margins. However, that and other Wall Street excesses would have been minimized if the gov’t hadn’t essentially promised to insure the risks. In that case the free market actually would punish foolish lenders rather than the rest of us. The only time you want to regulate is to protect people from fraud and theft. Anything else is social engineering and that rarely turns out well.
Nancy Pelosi needs to get the National Weather Service to announce that “unless we bail out Wall Street, the economy faces certain death.”
The current mess proves ‘social engineering’ works about as well as ‘climate engineering’, which is to say, not well at all. Alas, the ‘solution’ to the former may be still more social engineering. That will be expensive. If the powers that be take the same approach to the latter, it will be even more expensive.
Fixing the GISS temperature monitoring system would be far easier.
Could the great carbon trading bubble be bursting too?
I got a kick out of Al Gore talking about fraud, and demanding civil disobedience.
Lehman Bros. got passed over for bailout and was left out in the cold. Didn’t anyone tell the Democrats that Lehman was holding Al Gore’s global warming slush funds? I don’t know how they missed that.
http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?3a425e7e-55ac-4179-847d-243272db20e4
I am wondering why so many E.U. banks are going down too.
That’s not cat food from China, is it?
On a side note has anyone written (say Ross Mckitrick for instance) an expose on the cost of the current “non energy” energy policy?
In the US we refuse to drill, to build processing plants, to develope nuclear, etc; and similar inaction around the world has led to oil being at least $40 to $60 dollars per barrel more then it would be.
At around seven billion barrels to the US, this means a $280 billion drain per year. Our economy was beginning a nose dive before this financial collapse. Added to the oil cost is the rapid rise in natural gas, electric rates, as well as virtually everything else that makes up the GDP. Add carbon cap market costs. Add tax payer funded AGW research. Add the jobs lost because we have other (often unfriendly and unclean) markets develope our energy needs. What has the entire AGW scare cost?? I would love to see a real paper on this, and appreciate in advance any reference to one.
The best plan (after an emergency funding of the capitol markets)is to develope nuclear energy, clean coal, as well as drilling for oil, building refineries, etc. How many people would this employ??
Some of this revenue could then be used to continue developing other non fossil fuel energy.
Any thoughts on this?
Notice that the Dow recovered almost 500 of yesterday’s 777 point loss – in one day.
The “bailout” may have had its 15 minutes of fame, and some companies will just have to face old-fashioned bankruptcy.
We may find out by the end of the week.
My 13:53 comment is actually not a side note. The connection between our econemy going down and the cost of energy will be made. I am looking for SOLUTIONS. Many say it was world war II that really pulled us out of the depression.
I am not however in the mood for WW III. Perhaps instead a war for energy independance.
Anyone as ill-informed as Joel Shore should watch the following
It is unfortunate that even some of the people who were shouting financial warnings from the rooftops have been sucked in to the AGW alamists
But I thought it was Lehmans that started this all off..
You know the bank advised by Al and Jim.
I assumed Bush’s reference to let some go bankrupt was to the AGW carbon trading (scams) schemes that the “investment” bank as advised by Al and Jim so pushed.
No one seems to be mentioning this, so am I wrong,
or will “it” continue to go under the radar,
infront of our eyes..
David Segesta (11:12:48) :
What is your suggestion for ridding ourselves of Algore and the UN?
calasmith (14:06:10)
here is another one:
And:
” How many people out there can remember Hank Paulson’s rants less than a year ago of how this is the strongest economy he has ever seen or how the US economy is the envy of the world? There is something that should be overwhelmingly obvious at this point with his desperate pleas to allow the very same financial powers that got us into this mess to be issued a blank check from the US people that will go directly and only to bailing out his fat cat buddies and their failing firms. ….
….The average citizen is starting to see that all of this bailout money will not nearly benefit themselves even a fraction of what it will benefit the banks with all the bad debts from malinvestments and incompetent business decisions. Make no mistake… the banks will not start lending again with this package; they will be back for another $700 billion in a matter of months at the most. They will say they need even more now because we delayed too long. The bad debt and derivatives mess is far too big to bailout at any amount…..
David (14:02:06) :
“My 13:53 comment is actually not a side note. The connection between our econemy going down and the cost of energy will be made. I am looking for SOLUTIONS. ”
Energy is the next crisis because though there will be attempts to promote drilling for oil and gas on shore, off shore, and Alaska, and building refineries the extreme environmentalists will legally intervene to delay these projects. The best way to avoid these interventions is to declare a national energy emergency (like declaring war) with provisions to prevent these extremists from creating more delays and chaos. These environmental extremists along with their enabling Congressional cohorts are basically economic terrorists as their actions have increased the cost of living substantially as we have seen from the recent cost of fuel that results in an increase in cost of everything that is moved.
read of one representative who got lots of phone calls and emails how to vote:
50/50:
50 % “NO”
50 % “Hell, NO”
Re edcon (15:07:48) :
I agree, as I stated here, “At around seven billion barrels to the US, this means a $280 to $420 billion$ drain per year. Our economy was beginning a nose dive before this financial collapse. Added to the oil cost is the rapid rise in natural gas, electric rates, as well as virtually everything else that makes up the GDP. Add carbon cap market costs. Add tax payer funded AGW research. Add the jobs lost because we have other (often unfriendly and unclean) markets develope our energy needs. What has the entire AGW scare cost?? I would love to see a real paper on this, and appreciate in advance any reference to one.
Add these costs to the world market; What has the AGW scare cost the world???
We do indeed need a war for energy independence. Nothing else can save the global economy.
Anthony; please talk to Ross Mckitrick and see if he would do a paper on this.
Indur Goklany would be a better choice.
Most of the world is spending $40 to $60 per barrel more then is necessary.
Add in the other factors mentioned. In addition consider the social stress that could easily cause wars.
To support what the AGW scare is doing to the world is mindboggling brash considering how truly little science knows about the climate senstivity to a 2X CO2. As Spencer said, ” We had a consesus before we did the research.”
Joel Shore (12:08:28) :
“One could make the argument that many of the people who brought you the anti-government-regulation extremism that is to blame for the current problems in the financial markets are the ones who are arguing against any government intervention in the markets in the case of climate change!”
One could make the argument, but the same ideologic group of people who are anti-government regulation extremism are also for government intervention in the case of climate change, visibly represented by a former vice-president.
“Perhaps the lesson from this is that, although the market system works well when used carefully as a tool, it cannot just be left unregulated as a matter of religious faith in “free markets” as many of the libertarians and conservatives seem to want.”
Perhaps government interference in the mortage business with Congress’ insistence upon “affordable housing,” a euphemism for NINJA (No Income, No Job, No Assets) loans, caused the financial crisis by supporting an anything goes policy at the Fannie and Freddie Congressional piggy-banks.
Please everyone. Stop and get your breath. The financial crisis is not as severe as the media and politicians want you to think. This financial crisis is a lot of hype driven by media hysteria. A lot like global warming. In October 1987, the stock market dropped 35% in one day, and we recovered. Yesterday, the correction was only 7%. Today, the stock market recovered most of yesterday’s lost. Let the free market cleanse the Wall Street greed. If you really want to know what caused this, watch this youtube video.
This problem is just like global warming. Throw government money at anything, and you will get hysteria and panic. Government caused this crisis. Give the market time. Do not jump into a financial bailout. That will only prolong the pain. This is not 1929.
To lessen the pain, Congress only has to increase FDIC from $100,000 to $200,000 and repeal Sarbanes-Oxley (Mark-to-Market Accounting). This is mostly a crisis caused by sub-prime lending and accounting practices.
Jeff Wiita CPA
To lessen the pain, Congress only has to increase FDIC from $100,000 to $200,000 and repeal Sarbanes-Oxley (Mark-to-Market Accounting). This is mostly a crisis caused by sub-prime lending and accounting practices.
How else are you going to value securities like these currently under the microscope? There’s so much subjectivity built into these instruments that it’s a wonder some of the valuation methods ever passed an audit.
SOX will never be repealed. I know we accountants don’t care for the unintended consequences of it, but it’s not going anywhere. Anyone who even proposed it on the Hill would be committing political suicide.
How would repealing “Mark to Market” engender confidence? Would not other banks say, hey wait a minute, under the old rules these assets are only worth this lower amount, and I think that lower amount reflects the real value. Just a question, not a staement.
The reference to cat food reminds me of a Weird Al song.
How would repealing “Mark to Market” engender confidence?
I don’t think it would. End users certainly wouldn’t gain any confidence if they can’t trust the numbers they’re looking at.
As far as I knew, FASB forced this on banks late last year. I never knew SOX had anything to do with it.
“Ed Scott (14:58:59) :
David Segesta (11:12:48) :
What is your suggestion for ridding ourselves of Algore and the UN?”
Most of the American people are asleep at the switch. As long as that is the case no solution is possible. However, given enough time Al Gore and the UN will succeed in shutting down the country. When that happens people may wake up… maybe.
Until then don’t vote for the Rs or the Ds.
“Paul (12:16:11) :
David Segesta Said:
This is from a British paper. Its making it much easier to understand why our founders kicked the Brits out of our country.
Any room for a Brit who’s a little tired of Brittain over there? :)”
That would be fine by me. 🙂
derivatives – There are two sides of a trade. Somebody made a boatload of money.
Lehman Bros. got passed over for bailout – No body wanted Lehman Bros – They were on the wrong side of the market (maybe the carbon market) and didn’t have the capital to make good their gamble.
BTW Their computer model told them they couldn’t LOOSE.
Bailout: Main Street’s message to Wall Street & Washington…
We don’t believe you.
Not a single word you say.
Why?
Do the words “read my lips – no new taxes” ring a bell?
We didn’t believe you when you said – “the credit crisis is well contained.”
We didn’t believe you when you said – “the worst is now behind us.”
We didn’t believe you when you told us the bill would be – “$150 billion.”
We didn’t believe you then and we don’t believe you now.
How dare you trot out a bumbling, stumbling, stuttering, slickster like the former CEO of Goldman Sachs who personally profited to the tune of a $700 Million Dollar personal fortune by sending our jobs to China so some fat cat Wall Street CEO could double the value of his stock options, grab some lobbyist created tax credits, and drop .09 cents to his bottom line.
Not to mention that he, his former firm, and his ilk, were the ones who created and profited from dumping all this toxic Wall Street paper on Main Street in the first place!
Any coincidence that Paulson tried to “bum rush” us into a bailout, right after Goldman Sachs started to collapse?
Bear Stearns – no problem.
Fannie & Freddie – no problem.
Lehman Brothers – no problem.
Merrill Lynch – no problem.
WAMU – no problem.
Goldman? – problem.
We all know there are no coincidences on Wall Street.
And now you want to keep your $40 million dollar apartment in Manhattan, your $10 million dollar vacation home in the Hampton’s, and the windfall profits you sucked out of America, just before you collapse it?
You want us to bail you out of bankruptcy, right before you send us (and America) into it?
You want bankruptcy reform for you – after you locked us into serfdom with the bankruptcy reform act of 2005 – right at the peak of the credit, and housing bubble?
You want a bailout – AFTER you locked us, our children, and America into debtors prison?
Relief, reform, and a bailout for you… and the bill & debtors prison for us?
You must really think we’re a bunch of chumps.
Well guess what Wall Street & Washington, while “this sucka may go down” this time YOU’RE going down with us.
Sincerely,
Main Street
I would guess that there is a big correllation between (1) people who buy into the CAGW hysteria (so they can hate big evil corporations and greedy rich people); and (2) people who blame the financial crisis on big evil corporations and greedy rich people.
Most people here know that the case for CAGW is shockingly flimsy. I would submit that part of the reason CAGW has gained so much traction (notwithstanding the lack of evidentiary support) is that it confirms the worldview of people who hate big corporations, wealth, the USA, etc.
David Segesta Said:
“This is from a British paper. Its making it much easier to understand why our founders kicked the Brits out of our country.”
If Tara Garnett and her trendy academic friends have their way and take away our alcohol and chocolate, I’ll be on the next boat over, mate.
Mind you, we’ve never had a War of Independence of our own, over here. Perhaps we will, before too long!
Continuing off topic on the Financial Hysteria, folks might benefit from reading Nicolas Nassim Taleb’s “The Black Swan” about how those mathematical folks called ‘quants’ make complex financial computer models based on economics PhD papers that he (a math guy, but a pariah) said were un-understandable crap that greatly mis-assessed real risks. Written a couple years ago. Google Taleb and read his essay from a couple weeks ago online.
Taleb made a nice nest egg as a treader in the 90s and is now an engineering professor who enjoys dissing economists mis-use of statistics and use of inappropriate mathematical models.
Wow!! Never thought my comment would turn into a real post.
Up here in Canada we are having an election as well. Our main Left Wing party is pitching a “Green Shift”. As the economy looks darker and darker, this is becoming less appetising (kind of like cat food); and less urgent. I am looking for a Right Wing (Conservative Party of Canada) majority win. If anyone can keep Canada from sliding into the Black Hole that is the American Credit Bubble, it is Mr. Harper (the Conservative Leader).
[…] to keep things in perspective, from Watts up With That: “Is anyone even paying attention to these Wing Nut AGW people? With 1/2 of America worried about […]
Klaus B, you’ll like this video of the causes of the subprime mess: click
For sure, you’ll enjoy the music!
Crank it up, and sit back, and enjoy!
‘to keep things in perspective, from Watts up With That: “Is anyone even paying attention to these Wing Nut AGW people? With 1/2 of America worried about […]’
Unfortunately yes the…..EPA
This link is from an Irish paper – climate change lobby jumping on the financial crisis – just in case they were beginning to feel marginalised – or that they didnt feel like discussing facts about climate – a report released by the state Met service on the same day showed that September in Ireland was the coldest since 1994 and that temparatures during the month had failed to breach 20 degrees Celsius at time for the first time in 34 years…
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/1002/1222815457097.html
I am born and bred English, I respect my American cousins who should remember their roots but hey! I would have shoved the tea in the drink as well! and not many of us read the rag known as the Guardian.
Guardian readers who cares a fig what they think!- however the majority of the working class ie ‘the Mirror/Sun reader’ has a much better grasp of the agw scam. They have to live in the real world.
God bless real thinking people all over the world!-I hope we are not too late to save it from loonys like Al and his mates.
Anthony
this is a recent article worth reading:
http://nzclimatescience.net/index.php
UK ANAYSIS OF CLIMATE CHANGE POLICIES
Policy
(sorry to put this comment here; didn’t know where to find site for sending you information.) 🙂
[…] the economic crisis hitting hard and most people worried about having to eat cat food during their retirement, what does Lord Stern tell us? The credit crisis is time to act on climate change. Lord Stern is […]