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	<title>Comments on: How not to measure temperature, part 71: NOAA neglect of volunteer observers</title>
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	<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/15/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-71-noaa-neglect-of-volunteer-observers/</link>
	<description>The world&#039;s most viewed site on global warming and climate change</description>
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		<title>By: Texas Motor Speedway - Weather safety question?</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/15/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-71-noaa-neglect-of-volunteer-observers/#comment-40796</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Texas Motor Speedway - Weather safety question?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[[...] How not to measure temperature, part 71: NOAA neglect of volunteer &#8230;   Sphere: Related Content Ask a Question [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] How not to measure temperature, part 71: NOAA neglect of volunteer &#8230;   Sphere: Related Content Ask a Question [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Wales</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/15/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-71-noaa-neglect-of-volunteer-observers/#comment-40704</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wales]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 00:09:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Hmm..  I&#039;m not sure if this is a useful suggestion, but if the station needs to be maintained (here it looks like the station needs to be rebuilt, the foliage hacked back, and possibly relocated a bit...) -- this might be something to let a local Boy Scout Troop know about.   The Scouts do service projects in their local cities and neighborhoods, and raise the funds to do so, get donations of time and materials, etc  and execute the projects.   A local Scout troop might tackled something like this as a project -- it seems to fit all the criteria they look for.    If the person who did the field report knows the  person who is maintaining the facility would like some help to update the facility, they could let a local Scout Troop know, and the boys (and adults) in the Troop might be able to get it done -- for free to the property owner.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm..  I&#8217;m not sure if this is a useful suggestion, but if the station needs to be maintained (here it looks like the station needs to be rebuilt, the foliage hacked back, and possibly relocated a bit&#8230;) &#8212; this might be something to let a local Boy Scout Troop know about.   The Scouts do service projects in their local cities and neighborhoods, and raise the funds to do so, get donations of time and materials, etc  and execute the projects.   A local Scout troop might tackled something like this as a project &#8212; it seems to fit all the criteria they look for.    If the person who did the field report knows the  person who is maintaining the facility would like some help to update the facility, they could let a local Scout Troop know, and the boys (and adults) in the Troop might be able to get it done &#8212; for free to the property owner.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Bryant</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/15/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-71-noaa-neglect-of-volunteer-observers/#comment-40122</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Bryant]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 23:00:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3071#comment-40122</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OT Here is an article about new projections from Hansen at GISS.
http://www.physorg.com/news140440981.html

This seems to be so wrong on so many levels it is stunning.
It includes his newest plan to save the world.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OT Here is an article about new projections from Hansen at GISS.<br />
<a href="http://www.physorg.com/news140440981.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.physorg.com/news140440981.html</a></p>
<p>This seems to be so wrong on so many levels it is stunning.<br />
It includes his newest plan to save the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan the Brit</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/15/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-71-noaa-neglect-of-volunteer-observers/#comment-39983</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alan the Brit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 10:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3071#comment-39983</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re:Michael J Bentley/Evanjones/William Wallace.

The way things are reported &amp; commented upon by apparent observers is always illuminating in many ways.

I recall a wonderfull BBC documentary broadcast a while ago, following a Sky at Night special hosted by the marvellous Sir Patrick Moore, all about the Sun!  Well, the documentary that followed was equally marvellous, with wonderfull photography, graphics, &amp; descriptions of the workings of the Sun.  In fact I was totally enthralled by it until the last 5 minutes or so, when the narrator dramatically spoke the closing words along the lines of &quot;No one can explain what effects the power of the sun has on our climate, but whatever it is, it&#039;s already been overtaken by man-made global warming!&quot;, coupled with an image of a bright furious sun cutting immediately to an image of a calving ice sheet.  Very impressive.  I only wonder as a simple structural engineer how that, if one doesn&#039;t know what effect &#039;A&#039; has upon &#039;B&#039;, how does one know that &#039;C&#039; has a greater effect upon &#039;B&#039; than &#039;A&#039;, &amp; one doesn&#039;t really know what effect &#039;C&#039; is having upon &#039;B&#039; if any?

BTW great website Mr Watts, please keep up the splendid work!  If it wasn&#039;t for this &amp; ICECAP among others I would have still been a AGW believer.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re:Michael J Bentley/Evanjones/William Wallace.</p>
<p>The way things are reported &amp; commented upon by apparent observers is always illuminating in many ways.</p>
<p>I recall a wonderfull BBC documentary broadcast a while ago, following a Sky at Night special hosted by the marvellous Sir Patrick Moore, all about the Sun!  Well, the documentary that followed was equally marvellous, with wonderfull photography, graphics, &amp; descriptions of the workings of the Sun.  In fact I was totally enthralled by it until the last 5 minutes or so, when the narrator dramatically spoke the closing words along the lines of &#8220;No one can explain what effects the power of the sun has on our climate, but whatever it is, it&#8217;s already been overtaken by man-made global warming!&#8221;, coupled with an image of a bright furious sun cutting immediately to an image of a calving ice sheet.  Very impressive.  I only wonder as a simple structural engineer how that, if one doesn&#8217;t know what effect &#8216;A&#8217; has upon &#8216;B&#8217;, how does one know that &#8216;C&#8217; has a greater effect upon &#8216;B&#8217; than &#8216;A&#8217;, &amp; one doesn&#8217;t really know what effect &#8216;C&#8217; is having upon &#8216;B&#8217; if any?</p>
<p>BTW great website Mr Watts, please keep up the splendid work!  If it wasn&#8217;t for this &amp; ICECAP among others I would have still been a AGW believer.</p>
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		<title>By: Ric Werme</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/15/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-71-noaa-neglect-of-volunteer-observers/#comment-39921</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ric Werme]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 04:40:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3071#comment-39921</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[FatBigot (20:01:05) :


    I hope the family will be given a very fine award to mark a century of dedicated work to an important process. That could only happen if someone tells NOAA that the century has been achieved, perhaps those who know Bob’s name and address could bring it to their attention.


Perhaps the site could be featured in the next Coop Observer&#039;s newsletter.  With photos, of course.  :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FatBigot (20:01:05) :</p>
<p>    I hope the family will be given a very fine award to mark a century of dedicated work to an important process. That could only happen if someone tells NOAA that the century has been achieved, perhaps those who know Bob’s name and address could bring it to their attention.</p>
<p>Perhaps the site could be featured in the next Coop Observer&#8217;s newsletter.  With photos, of course.  :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Robert of Texas</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/15/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-71-noaa-neglect-of-volunteer-observers/#comment-39915</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert of Texas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 03:50:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3071#comment-39915</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just curious.  

Why doesn&#039;t someone take a pair of calibrated thermometers and take readings near the box and further away.  This could prove the impact of a air conditioner nearby, if any.  While I can see the station is ridiculously out of compliance I would rather have some fact to back it up - not just a touchy feely picture.  Actually, if someone were good enough at statistics I wonder if you could correlate this stations data versus another one nearby (that is better in compliance) and see an &quot;air conditioning effect&quot; on warm days - if its measurable.

Should be able to measure the impact of using metal on the roof using a pair of models set up side-by-side.

Also, if &quot;Bob&quot; knows when he moved you might be able to see some change in the data at the time.  This would back up arguments that data collection is biased.

Ah, so many experiments, so little time...  :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just curious.  </p>
<p>Why doesn&#8217;t someone take a pair of calibrated thermometers and take readings near the box and further away.  This could prove the impact of a air conditioner nearby, if any.  While I can see the station is ridiculously out of compliance I would rather have some fact to back it up &#8211; not just a touchy feely picture.  Actually, if someone were good enough at statistics I wonder if you could correlate this stations data versus another one nearby (that is better in compliance) and see an &#8220;air conditioning effect&#8221; on warm days &#8211; if its measurable.</p>
<p>Should be able to measure the impact of using metal on the roof using a pair of models set up side-by-side.</p>
<p>Also, if &#8220;Bob&#8221; knows when he moved you might be able to see some change in the data at the time.  This would back up arguments that data collection is biased.</p>
<p>Ah, so many experiments, so little time&#8230;  :-)</p>
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		<title>By: FatBigot</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/15/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-71-noaa-neglect-of-volunteer-observers/#comment-39895</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[FatBigot]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 03:01:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3071#comment-39895</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is reported that &quot;Bob&quot; moved the apparatus when his father-in-law died 40 years ago.  That gives no reason to question the 60 years of measurements undertaken by the late father-in-law.  

I hope the family will be given a very fine award to mark a century of dedicated work to an important process.  That could only happen if someone tells NOAA that the century has been achieved, perhaps those who know Bob&#039;s name and address could bring it to their attention.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is reported that &#8220;Bob&#8221; moved the apparatus when his father-in-law died 40 years ago.  That gives no reason to question the 60 years of measurements undertaken by the late father-in-law.  </p>
<p>I hope the family will be given a very fine award to mark a century of dedicated work to an important process.  That could only happen if someone tells NOAA that the century has been achieved, perhaps those who know Bob&#8217;s name and address could bring it to their attention.</p>
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		<title>By: Top Posts &#171; WordPress.com</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/15/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-71-noaa-neglect-of-volunteer-observers/#comment-39849</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Top Posts &#171; WordPress.com]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 23:59:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3071#comment-39849</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...]  How not to measure temperature, part 71: NOAA neglect of volunteer observers As we get more of the private observers in USHCN surveyed, we start hearing about stories like this one from Dufur [...] [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  How not to measure temperature, part 71: NOAA neglect of volunteer observers As we get more of the private observers in USHCN surveyed, we start hearing about stories like this one from Dufur [...] [...]</p>
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		<title>By: William Wallace</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/15/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-71-noaa-neglect-of-volunteer-observers/#comment-39818</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[William Wallace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:59:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3071#comment-39818</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;......the sun has limited effect on the climate etc, etc.&quot;   I suppose the BBC won&#039;t mind my little project to switch off the sun then, eh?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;&#8230;the sun has limited effect on the climate etc, etc.&#8221;   I suppose the BBC won&#8217;t mind my little project to switch off the sun then, eh?</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Anderson</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/15/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-71-noaa-neglect-of-volunteer-observers/#comment-39808</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric Anderson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:18:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3071#comment-39808</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Amen to anna v&#039;s comment.

My understanding is that, with the exception of a small handful of stations put in place in the past few years, the network was not established with the goal to identify a minor, incremental rise in temperature over decades or centuries.  The dedicated individuals who have been gathering regular data should be given their due.  It is simply that the data was never intended in the first place to give -- and as the state of the network demonstrates, cannot now give -- a meaningful trend, when the trend itself is supposedly measured to a sensitivity that for so many of the stations is obviously well below the margin of noise.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen to anna v&#8217;s comment.</p>
<p>My understanding is that, with the exception of a small handful of stations put in place in the past few years, the network was not established with the goal to identify a minor, incremental rise in temperature over decades or centuries.  The dedicated individuals who have been gathering regular data should be given their due.  It is simply that the data was never intended in the first place to give &#8212; and as the state of the network demonstrates, cannot now give &#8212; a meaningful trend, when the trend itself is supposedly measured to a sensitivity that for so many of the stations is obviously well below the margin of noise.</p>
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		<title>By: Tnspotter</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/15/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-71-noaa-neglect-of-volunteer-observers/#comment-39798</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tnspotter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:54:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3071#comment-39798</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Have been introduced to your site recently and love it. But may I tell the other side of the story. Yes, there are plenty of sites which are tinted in some way which downgrade the quality of proper temps. How ever the data from UAH also includes data from the Huntsville , AL NWS office. This office is tops in making sure they get proper data in the field and deal with situations where questionable data shows up. One of the fellows I know does the leg work going to the sites to check equipment. One situation was a former coop member who kept his temp sensor near a black top roof instead of a yard or field. He refuse to move it and was a great believer of the GW hype. You walk a thin line in this debate.   The other side is the AGW people who don&#039;t want sensors near water sources as they are heat producing.  (In the SE, fog on bridges can be a big issue during winter months, we don&#039;t know squat about black ice driving here!)  An active outreach program would help greatly let everyone know one another and everyone knows what is expected of them. Usually some one in the media will notice the different in temps and bring it to the attention of the NWS. 
I have express my dismay that it is hard to get proper data from the rural areas, some areas flat out don&#039;t have coverage. This program is volunteer as is the spotter program and Cocorahs. You get some weird looks when people realize you do this work with no payment in return. It takes a lot of folks to gather data and info, some are sloppy about it.
My point, not all the coop members or NWS offices are at fault. I too question this when even the ALaska NWS offices have reported reported temps way below normal.  But keep up the work, you have the guts to report data and issues in the science world which never makes it to main stream media.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have been introduced to your site recently and love it. But may I tell the other side of the story. Yes, there are plenty of sites which are tinted in some way which downgrade the quality of proper temps. How ever the data from UAH also includes data from the Huntsville , AL NWS office. This office is tops in making sure they get proper data in the field and deal with situations where questionable data shows up. One of the fellows I know does the leg work going to the sites to check equipment. One situation was a former coop member who kept his temp sensor near a black top roof instead of a yard or field. He refuse to move it and was a great believer of the GW hype. You walk a thin line in this debate.   The other side is the AGW people who don&#8217;t want sensors near water sources as they are heat producing.  (In the SE, fog on bridges can be a big issue during winter months, we don&#8217;t know squat about black ice driving here!)  An active outreach program would help greatly let everyone know one another and everyone knows what is expected of them. Usually some one in the media will notice the different in temps and bring it to the attention of the NWS.<br />
I have express my dismay that it is hard to get proper data from the rural areas, some areas flat out don&#8217;t have coverage. This program is volunteer as is the spotter program and Cocorahs. You get some weird looks when people realize you do this work with no payment in return. It takes a lot of folks to gather data and info, some are sloppy about it.<br />
My point, not all the coop members or NWS offices are at fault. I too question this when even the ALaska NWS offices have reported reported temps way below normal.  But keep up the work, you have the guts to report data and issues in the science world which never makes it to main stream media.</p>
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		<title>By: evanjones</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/15/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-71-noaa-neglect-of-volunteer-observers/#comment-39795</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[evanjones]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:34:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3071#comment-39795</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[anna v makes a valid point.

&lt;cite&gt;Is anyone else affected in the same way?&lt;/cite&gt;

No problems here (and I&#039;m dial-up).

Perhaps another browser would work?
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>anna v makes a valid point.</p>
<p><cite>Is anyone else affected in the same way?</cite></p>
<p>No problems here (and I&#8217;m dial-up).</p>
<p>Perhaps another browser would work?</p>
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		<title>By: evanjones</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/15/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-71-noaa-neglect-of-volunteer-observers/#comment-39794</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[evanjones]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:26:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3071#comment-39794</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;cite&gt;All sacrificed to the biggest global fraud since the Yalta Agreement.&lt;/cite&gt;

Disagree it was a fraud. The Russians were already occupying Eastern Europe and nothing anyone said or did not say was going to change that. Romania and Bulgaria already had armies in the field on the Soviet side. They outnumbered allied forces around 4-1, were far better fighters man-for-man (second only to the Germans, themselves), had an equivalent tactical air force, and incredibly superior armor (and numbers of AFV), and could supply directly by rail. And if we&#039;d made a bid for Berlin, they just would have made their move in March rather than waiting until April.

And Moscow (and Soviet production) was far out of bomber range.

If we&#039;d been crazy enough to take them on, it probably would have been Dunkirk v.2.

At the time no one had any idea whether the bomb would work or not. We got the promise of Russian help in Asia to pin down the Japanese army, which did not turn out to be necessary, but was thought by all to be a big deal at the time. All FDR and Churchill gave up was what the Soviets already had and nothing was going to change.

(Sorry, jeez, I could not bring myself to let that pass.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><cite>All sacrificed to the biggest global fraud since the Yalta Agreement.</cite></p>
<p>Disagree it was a fraud. The Russians were already occupying Eastern Europe and nothing anyone said or did not say was going to change that. Romania and Bulgaria already had armies in the field on the Soviet side. They outnumbered allied forces around 4-1, were far better fighters man-for-man (second only to the Germans, themselves), had an equivalent tactical air force, and incredibly superior armor (and numbers of AFV), and could supply directly by rail. And if we&#8217;d made a bid for Berlin, they just would have made their move in March rather than waiting until April.</p>
<p>And Moscow (and Soviet production) was far out of bomber range.</p>
<p>If we&#8217;d been crazy enough to take them on, it probably would have been Dunkirk v.2.</p>
<p>At the time no one had any idea whether the bomb would work or not. We got the promise of Russian help in Asia to pin down the Japanese army, which did not turn out to be necessary, but was thought by all to be a big deal at the time. All FDR and Churchill gave up was what the Soviets already had and nothing was going to change.</p>
<p>(Sorry, jeez, I could not bring myself to let that pass.)</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/15/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-71-noaa-neglect-of-volunteer-observers/#comment-39790</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Martin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:14:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3071#comment-39790</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[... and the numbers were called Data, and The Hanson used the Data, and He saw that it was good.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230; and the numbers were called Data, and The Hanson used the Data, and He saw that it was good.</p>
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		<title>By: evanjones</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/15/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-71-noaa-neglect-of-volunteer-observers/#comment-39786</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[evanjones]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Sep 2008 17:58:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=3071#comment-39786</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;cite&gt;I am at an unusual loss of words. &lt;/cite&gt;

You need not be.

I assure you that these conditions are &lt;cite&gt;quite&lt;/cite&gt; usual.

So you can feel better now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><cite>I am at an unusual loss of words. </cite></p>
<p>You need not be.</p>
<p>I assure you that these conditions are <cite>quite</cite> usual.</p>
<p>So you can feel better now.</p>
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