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	<title>Comments on: Arctic Hell in a Handbasket</title>
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		<title>By: wilbert</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/03/arctic-hell-in-a-handbasket/#comment-37660</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wilbert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 02:28:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[&quot;fred houpt&quot;
 Not 100% sure but I think that was the a 1980 article about the Franz Josef glacier in NZ.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;fred houpt&#8221;<br />
 Not 100% sure but I think that was the a 1980 article about the Franz Josef glacier in NZ.</p>
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		<title>By: fred houpt</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/03/arctic-hell-in-a-handbasket/#comment-37573</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fred houpt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 20:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2751#comment-37573</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;John Nicklin&quot;: you know I recall reading somewhere (I wish I could recall the source) and this guy was lamenting that if this particular glacier would continue to retreat all along a large mountainous area it would be very bad for tourist business.  I read this and nearly fell off my chair.  Bad for tourists business? Yeah, because they shlep up there to go stare at the vast ice field and without the glacier to look at the locals figure that tourists will not come back.  These type of people, in my imagination would have stood in front of the last ice age and held plackards reading &quot;bad ice, bad ice, go home&quot;.  The foolishness that this discussion brings out of people is staggering.  I am certain that if we did a sample poll of 10,000 Americans (for example) just asking on the street.....if the ice caps in the Arctic continue to melt in the winter months, a big number would say &quot;no&quot; they don&#039;t and when asked why they would say &quot;global warming&quot; has put a stop that.  I am certain.  

&quot;Jeff Alberts&quot;, yes, I agree.  I read a few years back when the hysteria was focussed on the South pole....that the main reason that a humungous berg larger than Manhatten had broken off was because the pressure from inland was so great - all due to increase of snow fall way inland....forcing the bergs to push out.  But, the media all jumped on the story and claimed without a single drop of evidence that it was a sign of a warming world, when the fact was it was a sign that inland the snow had been higher.  

But wait: I promise you that when this current hurricane season has blown itself out the press will publish op-eds (that&#039;s about all they are) that will claim it is all because the earth is going over the tipping point, into the demonic grip of runaway global gore-gasses.....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;John Nicklin&#8221;: you know I recall reading somewhere (I wish I could recall the source) and this guy was lamenting that if this particular glacier would continue to retreat all along a large mountainous area it would be very bad for tourist business.  I read this and nearly fell off my chair.  Bad for tourists business? Yeah, because they shlep up there to go stare at the vast ice field and without the glacier to look at the locals figure that tourists will not come back.  These type of people, in my imagination would have stood in front of the last ice age and held plackards reading &#8220;bad ice, bad ice, go home&#8221;.  The foolishness that this discussion brings out of people is staggering.  I am certain that if we did a sample poll of 10,000 Americans (for example) just asking on the street&#8230;..if the ice caps in the Arctic continue to melt in the winter months, a big number would say &#8220;no&#8221; they don&#8217;t and when asked why they would say &#8220;global warming&#8221; has put a stop that.  I am certain.  </p>
<p>&#8220;Jeff Alberts&#8221;, yes, I agree.  I read a few years back when the hysteria was focussed on the South pole&#8230;.that the main reason that a humungous berg larger than Manhatten had broken off was because the pressure from inland was so great &#8211; all due to increase of snow fall way inland&#8230;.forcing the bergs to push out.  But, the media all jumped on the story and claimed without a single drop of evidence that it was a sign of a warming world, when the fact was it was a sign that inland the snow had been higher.  </p>
<p>But wait: I promise you that when this current hurricane season has blown itself out the press will publish op-eds (that&#8217;s about all they are) that will claim it is all because the earth is going over the tipping point, into the demonic grip of runaway global gore-gasses&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Ric Werme</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/03/arctic-hell-in-a-handbasket/#comment-37481</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ric Werme]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 16:03:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2751#comment-37481</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[evanjones (20:15:43) :
&lt;blockquote&gt;
    Along with decimating ecosystems, drifting ice shelves and warmer temperatures that will cause further melting ice pose a hazard to populated shipping routes in the Arctic region

    Arctic melt threatening Arctic shipping. Um. Come again?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Evan, you missed another low hanging fruit.  IIRC, the etymology for &quot;decimating&quot; goes back to the Roman Empire where to reinspire troops that needed it, a commander would line them all up and kill every tenth.  The remaining 90% would then put out greater than 111% effort and do better than before.

The author should have used the word &quot;devastation.&quot;  I think decimation crept into common usage in the aftermath of Katrina as I only recall previous natural disasters(*) causing devastation.

* The failure of the New Orleans levee system means Katrina was partially an anthropogenic disaster.  And the failure of people to heed the warnings means means it was a political disaster.  A complete package!

BTW, the Arctic shipping reference was probably to ice bergs drifting south into shipping lanes.  Think Titanic.  However, that&#039;s south of the Arctic Circle.  Oh well.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>evanjones (20:15:43) :</p>
<blockquote><p>
    Along with decimating ecosystems, drifting ice shelves and warmer temperatures that will cause further melting ice pose a hazard to populated shipping routes in the Arctic region</p>
<p>    Arctic melt threatening Arctic shipping. Um. Come again?
</p></blockquote>
<p>Evan, you missed another low hanging fruit.  IIRC, the etymology for &#8220;decimating&#8221; goes back to the Roman Empire where to reinspire troops that needed it, a commander would line them all up and kill every tenth.  The remaining 90% would then put out greater than 111% effort and do better than before.</p>
<p>The author should have used the word &#8220;devastation.&#8221;  I think decimation crept into common usage in the aftermath of Katrina as I only recall previous natural disasters(*) causing devastation.</p>
<p>* The failure of the New Orleans levee system means Katrina was partially an anthropogenic disaster.  And the failure of people to heed the warnings means means it was a political disaster.  A complete package!</p>
<p>BTW, the Arctic shipping reference was probably to ice bergs drifting south into shipping lanes.  Think Titanic.  However, that&#8217;s south of the Arctic Circle.  Oh well.</p>
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		<title>By: W Robichaud</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/03/arctic-hell-in-a-handbasket/#comment-37473</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[W Robichaud]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2751#comment-37473</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Ice shelf can not be 4500 years old.

Here is a study from 1986. The shelves had collapsed.
http://pubs.aina.ucalgary.ca/arctic/Arctic39-1-15.pdf]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Ice shelf can not be 4500 years old.</p>
<p>Here is a study from 1986. The shelves had collapsed.<br />
<a href="http://pubs.aina.ucalgary.ca/arctic/Arctic39-1-15.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://pubs.aina.ucalgary.ca/arctic/Arctic39-1-15.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: statePoet1775</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/03/arctic-hell-in-a-handbasket/#comment-37403</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[statePoet1775]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 04:07:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2751#comment-37403</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pam,
You &lt;i&gt;are&lt;/i&gt; a rare liberal since most of them (I&#039;ve found) won&#039;t argue for what they believe in (I think they just make a mental note to add me to the extermination list).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pam,<br />
You <i>are</i> a rare liberal since most of them (I&#8217;ve found) won&#8217;t argue for what they believe in (I think they just make a mental note to add me to the extermination list).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: jeez</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/03/arctic-hell-in-a-handbasket/#comment-37401</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jeez]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 04:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2751#comment-37401</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Cold and tolerant--kind of like my moderating style, or is it my dating style?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cold and tolerant&#8211;kind of like my moderating style, or is it my dating style?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: evanjones</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/03/arctic-hell-in-a-handbasket/#comment-37398</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[evanjones]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 03:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2751#comment-37398</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;cite&gt;a habitat for cold, tolerant microbial life&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;cite&gt;

Normally I don&#039;t go pedantic on such things, but sometimes when the copy editor is asleep at the switch, the results are, well, risible. 

(If it&#039;s cold, how can it be tolerant? Would you care to replace that comma with a hyphen, laddie? Or at least just remove it!)&lt;/cite&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><cite>a habitat for cold, tolerant microbial life</cite><cite></p>
<p>Normally I don&#8217;t go pedantic on such things, but sometimes when the copy editor is asleep at the switch, the results are, well, risible. </p>
<p>(If it&#8217;s cold, how can it be tolerant? Would you care to replace that comma with a hyphen, laddie? Or at least just remove it!)</cite></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: evanjones</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/03/arctic-hell-in-a-handbasket/#comment-37394</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[evanjones]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 03:15:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2751#comment-37394</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;cite&gt;Along with decimating ecosystems, drifting ice shelves and warmer temperatures that will cause further melting ice pose a hazard to populated shipping routes in the Arctic region&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;cite&gt;

Arctic melt threatening Arctic shipping. Um. Come again?&lt;/cite&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><cite>Along with decimating ecosystems, drifting ice shelves and warmer temperatures that will cause further melting ice pose a hazard to populated shipping routes in the Arctic region</cite><cite></p>
<p>Arctic melt threatening Arctic shipping. Um. Come again?</cite></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: evanjones</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/03/arctic-hell-in-a-handbasket/#comment-37392</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[evanjones]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 03:12:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2751#comment-37392</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;cite&gt;The Markham Ice Shelf had half the biomass for the entire Canadian Arctic Ice Shelf ecosystem as a habitat for cold, tolerant microbial life&lt;/cite&gt;

Right.

Save the Germs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><cite>The Markham Ice Shelf had half the biomass for the entire Canadian Arctic Ice Shelf ecosystem as a habitat for cold, tolerant microbial life</cite></p>
<p>Right.</p>
<p>Save the Germs.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: evanjones</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/03/arctic-hell-in-a-handbasket/#comment-37390</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[evanjones]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 03:11:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2751#comment-37390</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This hell in a handbasket sounds a lot like a tempest in a teapot.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This hell in a handbasket sounds a lot like a tempest in a teapot.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: John Marshall</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/03/arctic-hell-in-a-handbasket/#comment-36974</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Marshall]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 10:25:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2751#comment-36974</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Large lumps of ice are easy to break from ice shelves. It needs a storm not higher temperatures. A few years ago NASA observed a wave front from a north Pacific storm travel south and break a large piece of ice from part of the Antarctic ice shelf. We only have 30 years of real time polar observation, via satellite, which is too short a time to get any measure of natural cyclic ice changes. We know that in 1903 Roald Amundsen sailed the NW passage and observed a great lack of ice whilst Franklin died in ferociously cold conditions a little over one hundred years before trying to find the NW passage. As a geologist all I can say is that CO2 never drove climate in the past so why would it do so now?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Large lumps of ice are easy to break from ice shelves. It needs a storm not higher temperatures. A few years ago NASA observed a wave front from a north Pacific storm travel south and break a large piece of ice from part of the Antarctic ice shelf. We only have 30 years of real time polar observation, via satellite, which is too short a time to get any measure of natural cyclic ice changes. We know that in 1903 Roald Amundsen sailed the NW passage and observed a great lack of ice whilst Franklin died in ferociously cold conditions a little over one hundred years before trying to find the NW passage. As a geologist all I can say is that CO2 never drove climate in the past so why would it do so now?</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/03/arctic-hell-in-a-handbasket/#comment-36936</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 03:12:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2751#comment-36936</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mr. Watts asked if anyone knows whether the breakup of such shelves is a regular occurence.

Apparently no one here has any knowledge of that.

Lot&#039;s of opinions, but no info on the question asked.

&lt;strong&gt;Reply (by JG)&lt;/strong&gt;; Actually, JG asked, not AW.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Watts asked if anyone knows whether the breakup of such shelves is a regular occurence.</p>
<p>Apparently no one here has any knowledge of that.</p>
<p>Lot&#8217;s of opinions, but no info on the question asked.</p>
<p><strong>Reply (by JG)</strong>; Actually, JG asked, not AW.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Covert</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/03/arctic-hell-in-a-handbasket/#comment-36851</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Scott Covert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 20:19:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2751#comment-36851</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pamela, I respect your opinion and enjoy your posts very much.

Here&#039;s my take on the Republican Climate change stance.

First off we are in a two party system. The Greens have to lump in with the Democrats and the Libertarians have to lump in with the Republicans on Presidential ellections. Ross Perot and Ralph Nader have shown us that by voting for your ideal representitive (if there is one) you can ruin the chance of the one of the two most likely to be elected. They will lose votes to someone whom has no chance of being elected.

That&#039;s something everyone (practically everyone) knows. The republicans know (assume) they have the ultra-conservatives in their pocket. Why not then pander to the fence sitting liberals and conservatives?

Yes, it&#039;s dirty but that&#039;s Politics.

I envy the voters that have a candidate that is exactly what they want. Most of us have to hold our noses at the polls and pick the less stinky piece of poo.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pamela, I respect your opinion and enjoy your posts very much.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s my take on the Republican Climate change stance.</p>
<p>First off we are in a two party system. The Greens have to lump in with the Democrats and the Libertarians have to lump in with the Republicans on Presidential ellections. Ross Perot and Ralph Nader have shown us that by voting for your ideal representitive (if there is one) you can ruin the chance of the one of the two most likely to be elected. They will lose votes to someone whom has no chance of being elected.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s something everyone (practically everyone) knows. The republicans know (assume) they have the ultra-conservatives in their pocket. Why not then pander to the fence sitting liberals and conservatives?</p>
<p>Yes, it&#8217;s dirty but that&#8217;s Politics.</p>
<p>I envy the voters that have a candidate that is exactly what they want. Most of us have to hold our noses at the polls and pick the less stinky piece of poo.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Alberts</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/03/arctic-hell-in-a-handbasket/#comment-36780</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff Alberts]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:35:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2751#comment-36780</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Isn&#039;t it more likely that the shelf broke off because of ice pushing  it from the glacier behind?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t it more likely that the shelf broke off because of ice pushing  it from the glacier behind?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Craig D. Lattig</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/09/03/arctic-hell-in-a-handbasket/#comment-36775</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Craig D. Lattig]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:27:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2751#comment-36775</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pamela Grey
lol...as always, I enjoyed your posts....
The republicans have been toying with a climate change plank for several weeks...and I beleive it was Monday when the settled on the final version.

OK, the republicans, being political critters, have yelled &quot;Me TOO!&quot; and have agreed to hold hands with the democrats while all of them jump off of the same cliff. I can&#039;t imagine why this is a good thing...but it IS politics....

Since they are all products of our stellar education system, why should any of us really be supprised....

Pot...kettle...black....
Maybe.

Hell...handbasket....
Seems more timely....

Excuse me for a moment while I finish screaming and go beat my head against the wall....
[sigh]
cdl]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pamela Grey<br />
lol&#8230;as always, I enjoyed your posts&#8230;.<br />
The republicans have been toying with a climate change plank for several weeks&#8230;and I beleive it was Monday when the settled on the final version.</p>
<p>OK, the republicans, being political critters, have yelled &#8220;Me TOO!&#8221; and have agreed to hold hands with the democrats while all of them jump off of the same cliff. I can&#8217;t imagine why this is a good thing&#8230;but it IS politics&#8230;.</p>
<p>Since they are all products of our stellar education system, why should any of us really be supprised&#8230;.</p>
<p>Pot&#8230;kettle&#8230;black&#8230;.<br />
Maybe.</p>
<p>Hell&#8230;handbasket&#8230;.<br />
Seems more timely&#8230;.</p>
<p>Excuse me for a moment while I finish screaming and go beat my head against the wall&#8230;.<br />
[sigh]<br />
cdl</p>
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