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<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Sunspeck counts after all, debate rages&#8230;Sun DOES NOT have first spotless calendar month since June 1913</title>
	<atom:link href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/31/sun-has-first-spotless-calendar-month-since-1913/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/31/sun-has-first-spotless-calendar-month-since-1913/</link>
	<description>The world&#039;s most viewed site on global warming and climate change</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 29 May 2012 16:46:43 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Makia</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/31/sun-has-first-spotless-calendar-month-since-1913/#comment-45634</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Makia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 18:58:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2674#comment-45634</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What the hell?!
We pollute the earth and now we pollute the sun?
It has to be because the pollution we made here is going to space and to the sun. This is disastrous!
I think this is the begining of our ending.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What the hell?!<br />
We pollute the earth and now we pollute the sun?<br />
It has to be because the pollution we made here is going to space and to the sun. This is disastrous!<br />
I think this is the begining of our ending.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Will September be the month the sun truly transitions to Cycle 24? &#171; Watts Up With That?</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/31/sun-has-first-spotless-calendar-month-since-1913/#comment-43935</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Will September be the month the sun truly transitions to Cycle 24? &#171; Watts Up With That?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 19:09:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2674#comment-43935</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] August, there were no sunspotgroups numbered by NOAA. However, on 21-22 August &#8220;something&#8221; was visible well enough to be seen by several observers and to prompt the SIDC to give a (preliminary) non-zero [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] August, there were no sunspotgroups numbered by NOAA. However, on 21-22 August &#8220;something&#8221; was visible well enough to be seen by several observers and to prompt the SIDC to give a (preliminary) non-zero [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/31/sun-has-first-spotless-calendar-month-since-1913/#comment-39001</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 21:54:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2674#comment-39001</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Glen,
Here is another set of temp records that shows the SM warming:
http://www.climateaudit.org/wp-images/brif2034.gif
Compare the SM with the MWP that shows similar warming.
It is from http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3608]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glen,<br />
Here is another set of temp records that shows the SM warming:<br />
<a href="http://www.climateaudit.org/wp-images/brif2034.gif" rel="nofollow">http://www.climateaudit.org/wp-images/brif2034.gif</a><br />
Compare the SM with the MWP that shows similar warming.<br />
It is from <a href="http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3608" rel="nofollow">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=3608</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/31/sun-has-first-spotless-calendar-month-since-1913/#comment-38978</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 19:43:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2674#comment-38978</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From another thread:
Glenn (12:15:26) :
&lt;i&gt;solar activity for the last thousand years on that chart is the highest during the last hundred or so years&lt;/i&gt;
Simply because the calculation in the Appendix is based on the systematically too low past sunspot numbers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From another thread:<br />
Glenn (12:15:26) :<br />
<i>solar activity for the last thousand years on that chart is the highest during the last hundred or so years</i><br />
Simply because the calculation in the Appendix is based on the systematically too low past sunspot numbers.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: This is what passes for a sunspot these days &#171; Watts Up With That?</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/31/sun-has-first-spotless-calendar-month-since-1913/#comment-38911</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[This is what passes for a sunspot these days &#171; Watts Up With That?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 15:39:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2674#comment-38911</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] AFTER the SIDC came out with their monthly report on September 1st. See my report about that event here and the follow up email I got from SIDC when I questioned the [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] AFTER the SIDC came out with their monthly report on September 1st. See my report about that event here and the follow up email I got from SIDC when I questioned the [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/31/sun-has-first-spotless-calendar-month-since-1913/#comment-38876</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 06:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2674#comment-38876</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Glenn (17:53:24) :
&lt;i&gt;And as I have commented elsewhere, a increase in just one or two w/m2 is claimed to be the cause of the increase due to AGW in the last 50 -100 years.&lt;/i&gt;
Except that TSI has not increased 1-2 W/m2 in the last 50-100 years. And you are traditionally vague: one or two, 50-100. The make that amenable for discussion I would interpret that as 1.5 W/m2 in the last 75 years, and that simply did not happen.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glenn (17:53:24) :<br />
<i>And as I have commented elsewhere, a increase in just one or two w/m2 is claimed to be the cause of the increase due to AGW in the last 50 -100 years.</i><br />
Except that TSI has not increased 1-2 W/m2 in the last 50-100 years. And you are traditionally vague: one or two, 50-100. The make that amenable for discussion I would interpret that as 1.5 W/m2 in the last 75 years, and that simply did not happen.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/31/sun-has-first-spotless-calendar-month-since-1913/#comment-38872</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 06:34:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2674#comment-38872</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Glenn (17:53:24) :
&lt;i&gt;it sure looks like solar activity has played at least a significant if not major part in the temp of the Earth for the last thousand years.&lt;/i&gt;
It is evident that nothing can rock the faith of a real believer.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glenn (17:53:24) :<br />
<i>it sure looks like solar activity has played at least a significant if not major part in the temp of the Earth for the last thousand years.</i><br />
It is evident that nothing can rock the faith of a real believer.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Glenn</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/31/sun-has-first-spotless-calendar-month-since-1913/#comment-38848</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Glenn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 00:53:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2674#comment-38848</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Leif:
&quot;Either they are wrong or we are. I suggest that we [including you] are not.&quot;

One of us is wrong, since you claim that it was &quot;warm&quot; during the Spoerer MInimum, and I do not. I don&#039;t base my opinion on Wiki alone, but they often
include references to pertinent articles. And when it is said &quot;The Spörer Minimum has also been identified with a significant cooling period near the beginning of the Little Ice Age&quot; I suspect is supported by some research. For example, Wiki&#039;s entry for &quot;Medieval Warm Period&quot; has a graph taken from 
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globalwarming/medieval.html
showing that around the time of the Spoerer Minimum temps in the NH surface could have approached a degree C below today&#039;s mean.
WIki&#039;s &quot;Little Ice Age&quot; entry has &quot;Other indicators of low solar activity during this period are levels of the isotopes carbon-14 and beryllium-10&quot; which includes a chart not available for view from the referenced abstract provided
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/289/5477/270
but shows several minimas following the Medieval Maximum, then in the last hundred fifty years or so, an increase in solar activity. This in my opinion matches the temperature record in general. And as I have commented elsewhere, a increase in just one or two w/m2 is claimed to be the cause of the increase due to AGW in the last 50 -100 years. Minimas it appears can vary
Earth&#039;s total solar irradiance by at least that much. I don&#039;t think anyone believes things can happen instantly on a global scale, but it sure looks like solar activity has played at least a significant if not major part in the temp of the Earth for the last thousand years.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leif:<br />
&#8220;Either they are wrong or we are. I suggest that we [including you] are not.&#8221;</p>
<p>One of us is wrong, since you claim that it was &#8220;warm&#8221; during the Spoerer MInimum, and I do not. I don&#8217;t base my opinion on Wiki alone, but they often<br />
include references to pertinent articles. And when it is said &#8220;The Spörer Minimum has also been identified with a significant cooling period near the beginning of the Little Ice Age&#8221; I suspect is supported by some research. For example, Wiki&#8217;s entry for &#8220;Medieval Warm Period&#8221; has a graph taken from<br />
<a href="http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globalwarming/medieval.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globalwarming/medieval.html</a><br />
showing that around the time of the Spoerer Minimum temps in the NH surface could have approached a degree C below today&#8217;s mean.<br />
WIki&#8217;s &#8220;Little Ice Age&#8221; entry has &#8220;Other indicators of low solar activity during this period are levels of the isotopes carbon-14 and beryllium-10&#8243; which includes a chart not available for view from the referenced abstract provided<br />
<a href="http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/289/5477/270" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/289/5477/270</a><br />
but shows several minimas following the Medieval Maximum, then in the last hundred fifty years or so, an increase in solar activity. This in my opinion matches the temperature record in general. And as I have commented elsewhere, a increase in just one or two w/m2 is claimed to be the cause of the increase due to AGW in the last 50 -100 years. Minimas it appears can vary<br />
Earth&#8217;s total solar irradiance by at least that much. I don&#8217;t think anyone believes things can happen instantly on a global scale, but it sure looks like solar activity has played at least a significant if not major part in the temp of the Earth for the last thousand years.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/31/sun-has-first-spotless-calendar-month-since-1913/#comment-38828</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 22:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2674#comment-38828</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Glenn (14:18:23) :
&lt;i&gt;suggesting that the paper got the date ranges for the minimas wrong, you need to support that.&lt;/i&gt;
What they have correct is the dates of their own stuff. You and I both know that none of those date ranges cover the Spoerer minimum, so what is there to &#039;support&#039;? They say A, we say B. Either they are wrong or we are. I suggest that we [including you] are not. I base my assessment on the cosmic ray flux [e.g. seen in the graph on my website I referred to earlier]. You base yours on Wikipedia.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glenn (14:18:23) :<br />
<i>suggesting that the paper got the date ranges for the minimas wrong, you need to support that.</i><br />
What they have correct is the dates of their own stuff. You and I both know that none of those date ranges cover the Spoerer minimum, so what is there to &#8216;support&#8217;? They say A, we say B. Either they are wrong or we are. I suggest that we [including you] are not. I base my assessment on the cosmic ray flux [e.g. seen in the graph on my website I referred to earlier]. You base yours on Wikipedia.</p>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/31/sun-has-first-spotless-calendar-month-since-1913/#comment-38826</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 22:49:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2674#comment-38826</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Glenn (15:04:36) :
You are correct that I showed [from a different paper] a blow-up of the last 2000 years. But that is just quibbling. 

&lt;i&gt;I suspect you meant to reference Figure 1 instead, although Figure 1 is in contradiction to your other reference: “The results suggested the existence of four cold periods, 1330-1350…” since 1330 is at the top, or warmest period of that chart. Is there something missing that explains this problem?&lt;/i&gt;
What is missing is that the borehole reconstruction does not have a time resolution high enough to resolve 20 years, but works ok with periods several times longer.

&lt;i&gt;The “less extreme” is in reference to the subject of temperature, in English.&lt;/i&gt;
Take into account that the authors are Japanese. Ever tired to read a user manual for some erectronic device made in Japan?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glenn (15:04:36) :<br />
You are correct that I showed [from a different paper] a blow-up of the last 2000 years. But that is just quibbling. </p>
<p><i>I suspect you meant to reference Figure 1 instead, although Figure 1 is in contradiction to your other reference: “The results suggested the existence of four cold periods, 1330-1350…” since 1330 is at the top, or warmest period of that chart. Is there something missing that explains this problem?</i><br />
What is missing is that the borehole reconstruction does not have a time resolution high enough to resolve 20 years, but works ok with periods several times longer.</p>
<p><i>The “less extreme” is in reference to the subject of temperature, in English.</i><br />
Take into account that the authors are Japanese. Ever tired to read a user manual for some erectronic device made in Japan?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Glenn</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/31/sun-has-first-spotless-calendar-month-since-1913/#comment-38818</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Glenn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 22:04:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2674#comment-38818</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Leif,
&quot;A late Quaternary climate reconstruction based on borehole heat flux data, borehole temperature data, and the instrumental recordGeophys. Res. Lett., 35, L13703, doi:10.1029/2008GL034187. 4 July 2008
or just look at their main Figure here: http://www.leif.org/research/T-Boreholes.png
It shows that the little Ice age did not start before 1500.&quot;

Actually, no it doesn&#039;t. The figure on your site that matches the article graph is for the last 2000 years:

http://www.geo.lsa.umich.edu/~shaopeng/2008GL034187.pdf

&quot;Figure 2. Same suite of reconstructions as in Figure 1, but
displayed over only the past 2,000 years on an expanded
timescale.&quot;

That graph matches the one on your site exactly.

I suspect you meant to reference Figure 1 instead, although Figure 1 is in contradiction to your other reference: &quot;The results suggested the existence of four cold periods, 1330-1350...&quot; since 1330 is at the top, or warmest period of that chart. Is there something missing that explains this problem?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leif,<br />
&#8220;A late Quaternary climate reconstruction based on borehole heat flux data, borehole temperature data, and the instrumental recordGeophys. Res. Lett., 35, L13703, doi:10.1029/2008GL034187. 4 July 2008<br />
or just look at their main Figure here: <a href="http://www.leif.org/research/T-Boreholes.png" rel="nofollow">http://www.leif.org/research/T-Boreholes.png</a><br />
It shows that the little Ice age did not start before 1500.&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, no it doesn&#8217;t. The figure on your site that matches the article graph is for the last 2000 years:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.geo.lsa.umich.edu/~shaopeng/2008GL034187.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.geo.lsa.umich.edu/~shaopeng/2008GL034187.pdf</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Figure 2. Same suite of reconstructions as in Figure 1, but<br />
displayed over only the past 2,000 years on an expanded<br />
timescale.&#8221;</p>
<p>That graph matches the one on your site exactly.</p>
<p>I suspect you meant to reference Figure 1 instead, although Figure 1 is in contradiction to your other reference: &#8220;The results suggested the existence of four cold periods, 1330-1350&#8230;&#8221; since 1330 is at the top, or warmest period of that chart. Is there something missing that explains this problem?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Glenn</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/31/sun-has-first-spotless-calendar-month-since-1913/#comment-38813</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Glenn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 21:18:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2674#comment-38813</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No, I can&#039;t see that, Leif. The &quot;less extreme&quot; is in reference to the subject of temperature, in English. They claim that these cold temp times *coincide with the minimas*. 
It doesn&#039;t matter whether we agreed on when the Spoerer MInimum occured (I don&#039;t recall you ever confirming mine was the same as your understanding) - but if you are suggesting that the paper got the date ranges for the minimas wrong, you need to support that. The language used clearly indicates the date ranges they identify are *distinct from* the solar minima&#039;s; the abstract makes no mention of the temps during the solar minimas, except that they were &quot;less extreme&quot;.
As to reading the paper, I am in the same boat as you with regard to the Wilson&#039;s AU paper. If you have anything particular to quote from the paper itself, I suggest you quote it here, instead of asking me to pay $35 or so to read every reference you offer, or provide a URL to the whole paper. 

I found, quite by fortuitous accident, the URL to the first paper you mentioned which you claimed was evidence the LIA didn&#039;t start till 1400 AD:
http://www.geo.lsa.umich.edu/~shaopeng/2008GL034187.pdf

The Spoerer Minimum is said to have occured 1415–1534 AD, but that article does not even mention &quot;Spoerer Minimum&quot;. I fail to see how either article you offer holds evidence that the Spoerer MInimum was a &quot;warm&quot; period.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I can&#8217;t see that, Leif. The &#8220;less extreme&#8221; is in reference to the subject of temperature, in English. They claim that these cold temp times *coincide with the minimas*.<br />
It doesn&#8217;t matter whether we agreed on when the Spoerer MInimum occured (I don&#8217;t recall you ever confirming mine was the same as your understanding) &#8211; but if you are suggesting that the paper got the date ranges for the minimas wrong, you need to support that. The language used clearly indicates the date ranges they identify are *distinct from* the solar minima&#8217;s; the abstract makes no mention of the temps during the solar minimas, except that they were &#8220;less extreme&#8221;.<br />
As to reading the paper, I am in the same boat as you with regard to the Wilson&#8217;s AU paper. If you have anything particular to quote from the paper itself, I suggest you quote it here, instead of asking me to pay $35 or so to read every reference you offer, or provide a URL to the whole paper. </p>
<p>I found, quite by fortuitous accident, the URL to the first paper you mentioned which you claimed was evidence the LIA didn&#8217;t start till 1400 AD:<br />
<a href="http://www.geo.lsa.umich.edu/~shaopeng/2008GL034187.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.geo.lsa.umich.edu/~shaopeng/2008GL034187.pdf</a></p>
<p>The Spoerer Minimum is said to have occured 1415–1534 AD, but that article does not even mention &#8220;Spoerer Minimum&#8221;. I fail to see how either article you offer holds evidence that the Spoerer MInimum was a &#8220;warm&#8221; period.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/31/sun-has-first-spotless-calendar-month-since-1913/#comment-38801</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 20:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2674#comment-38801</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Glenn (09:58:30) : &quot;These cold periods coincided with the less extreme periods, known as the Wolf, Spoerer, Maunder, and Dalton minima&quot;, what the authors mean here is simply the &#039;less active solar cycles&#039;, not temperatures. Go read the paper [if you can&#039;t see that].]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glenn (09:58:30) : &#8220;These cold periods coincided with the less extreme periods, known as the Wolf, Spoerer, Maunder, and Dalton minima&#8221;, what the authors mean here is simply the &#8216;less active solar cycles&#8217;, not temperatures. Go read the paper [if you can't see that].</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Leif Svalgaard</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/31/sun-has-first-spotless-calendar-month-since-1913/#comment-38798</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leif Svalgaard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 20:04:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2674#comment-38798</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Glenn (09:58:30) :
&lt;i&gt;“The results suggested the existence of four cold periods, 1330-1350, 1520-1550, 1670-1700, and 1825-1830, during which periods the estimated March mean temperature was 4-5 °C, about 3-4 °C lower than the present normal temperature. These cold periods coincided with the less extreme periods, known as the Wolf, Spoerer, Maunder, and Dalton minima, &lt;/i&gt;

The authors are correct about their periods in years, but are not correct that the second period 1520-1550 was the Spoerer minimum. I thought we agreed [at least I agreed with your claim] that the Spoerer minimum was a hundred years before that. I&#039;m amazed that you can&#039;t see that, but I guess AGW makes blind for facts :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glenn (09:58:30) :<br />
<i>“The results suggested the existence of four cold periods, 1330-1350, 1520-1550, 1670-1700, and 1825-1830, during which periods the estimated March mean temperature was 4-5 °C, about 3-4 °C lower than the present normal temperature. These cold periods coincided with the less extreme periods, known as the Wolf, Spoerer, Maunder, and Dalton minima, </i></p>
<p>The authors are correct about their periods in years, but are not correct that the second period 1520-1550 was the Spoerer minimum. I thought we agreed [at least I agreed with your claim] that the Spoerer minimum was a hundred years before that. I&#8217;m amazed that you can&#8217;t see that, but I guess AGW makes blind for facts :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/31/sun-has-first-spotless-calendar-month-since-1913/#comment-38784</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Glenn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 16:58:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2674#comment-38784</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Leif, are you just trying to goad? If your intent was to support your claim that it was &quot;warm&quot; during the Spoerer Minimum, you don&#039;t get there by using an article which claims 

&quot;The results suggested the existence of four cold periods, 1330-1350, 1520-1550, 1670-1700, and 1825-1830, during which periods the estimated March mean temperature was 4-5 °C, about 3-4 °C lower than the present normal temperature. These cold periods coincided with the less extreme periods, known as the Wolf, Spoerer, Maunder, and Dalton minima, in the long-term solar variation cycle, which has a periodicity of 150-250 years.&quot;

In fact, going with your argument, this is contradictory, since the Maunder MInimum does coincide with the 1670-1700 range, yet they include the Maunder as one minimum that is &quot;less extreme&quot;, and the Maunder Minimum
(1645-1715) is another well known cold period, some say the coldest part of the Little Ice age. These authors claim that the Maunder Minimum, like the Spoerer Minimum, were &quot;less extreme&quot; than the periods which they identify as
being colder. Even if that were true and those periods were colder than the periods of the minimas, they do not claim that the periods between are &quot;warm&quot;
in any sense of the word, and the article can not be interpreted as evidence that the Spoerer Minimum was a &quot;warm&quot; period. 

Of course as far as I know, we are both going by the article&#039;s abstract. Yet if they had meant the Minima&#039;s were found to be warm, they would not have said
&quot;less extreme&quot;. Less extreme than 3 or 4 C could still be quite cold, as in the middle of the LIA. Danced on the Thames lately? The first &quot;Frost Fair&quot; was in 1607, in one of those &quot;less extreme&quot; periods claimed to occur in Japan at the same time. Not regional? Going to claim that the Maunder MInimum was a warm period too?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leif, are you just trying to goad? If your intent was to support your claim that it was &#8220;warm&#8221; during the Spoerer Minimum, you don&#8217;t get there by using an article which claims </p>
<p>&#8220;The results suggested the existence of four cold periods, 1330-1350, 1520-1550, 1670-1700, and 1825-1830, during which periods the estimated March mean temperature was 4-5 °C, about 3-4 °C lower than the present normal temperature. These cold periods coincided with the less extreme periods, known as the Wolf, Spoerer, Maunder, and Dalton minima, in the long-term solar variation cycle, which has a periodicity of 150-250 years.&#8221;</p>
<p>In fact, going with your argument, this is contradictory, since the Maunder MInimum does coincide with the 1670-1700 range, yet they include the Maunder as one minimum that is &#8220;less extreme&#8221;, and the Maunder Minimum<br />
(1645-1715) is another well known cold period, some say the coldest part of the Little Ice age. These authors claim that the Maunder Minimum, like the Spoerer Minimum, were &#8220;less extreme&#8221; than the periods which they identify as<br />
being colder. Even if that were true and those periods were colder than the periods of the minimas, they do not claim that the periods between are &#8220;warm&#8221;<br />
in any sense of the word, and the article can not be interpreted as evidence that the Spoerer Minimum was a &#8220;warm&#8221; period. </p>
<p>Of course as far as I know, we are both going by the article&#8217;s abstract. Yet if they had meant the Minima&#8217;s were found to be warm, they would not have said<br />
&#8220;less extreme&#8221;. Less extreme than 3 or 4 C could still be quite cold, as in the middle of the LIA. Danced on the Thames lately? The first &#8220;Frost Fair&#8221; was in 1607, in one of those &#8220;less extreme&#8221; periods claimed to occur in Japan at the same time. Not regional? Going to claim that the Maunder MInimum was a warm period too?</p>
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