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	<title>Comments on: Skeptical Article on Climate in the Old Farmer&#8217;s Almanac &#8211; cooler times ahead?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/28/skeptical-article-on-climate-in-the-old-farmers-almanac/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/28/skeptical-article-on-climate-in-the-old-farmers-almanac/</link>
	<description>Commentary on puzzling things in life, nature, science, weather, climate change, technology, and recent news by Anthony Watts</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:27:49 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Ric Werme</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/28/skeptical-article-on-climate-in-the-old-farmers-almanac/#comment-34930</link>
		<dc:creator>Ric Werme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 04:33:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2542#comment-34930</guid>
		<description>old construction worker (16:48:36) :

    I’m buying 10 copies and giving them to some pro AGW friends.

Good!  In addition to that, if they&#039;re members of an enviromental group like the Sierra Club or Greenpeace, have them read Lucy Skywalker&#039;s article at http://www.greenworldtrust.org.uk/Science/Curious.htm .  If they are interested in the use and abuse of science in AGW, have them read my http://wermenh.com/climate/science.html .

Lucy&#039;s article may be best read on the web as she has a lot of links going to sources that support her journey back from the hot side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>old construction worker (16:48:36) :</p>
<p>    I’m buying 10 copies and giving them to some pro AGW friends.</p>
<p>Good!  In addition to that, if they&#8217;re members of an enviromental group like the Sierra Club or Greenpeace, have them read Lucy Skywalker&#8217;s article at <a href="http://www.greenworldtrust.org.uk/Science/Curious.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.greenworldtrust.org.uk/Science/Curious.htm</a> .  If they are interested in the use and abuse of science in AGW, have them read my <a href="http://wermenh.com/climate/science.html" rel="nofollow">http://wermenh.com/climate/science.html</a> .</p>
<p>Lucy&#8217;s article may be best read on the web as she has a lot of links going to sources that support her journey back from the hot side.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Sadlov</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/28/skeptical-article-on-climate-in-the-old-farmers-almanac/#comment-34877</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Sadlov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 00:26:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2542#comment-34877</guid>
		<description>RE:  Steven Hill (19:12:25) :

We may indeed be facing a planetary emergency, however, if so, it&#039;s probably not the one that non scientist Al Gore has in mind. It&#039;s far worse. Far, far worse. 

I cannot think of a worse way to witness the end of Civilization than sitting cold and starving in a war torn world of death.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE:  Steven Hill (19:12:25) :</p>
<p>We may indeed be facing a planetary emergency, however, if so, it&#8217;s probably not the one that non scientist Al Gore has in mind. It&#8217;s far worse. Far, far worse. </p>
<p>I cannot think of a worse way to witness the end of Civilization than sitting cold and starving in a war torn world of death.</p>
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		<title>By: old construction worker</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/28/skeptical-article-on-climate-in-the-old-farmers-almanac/#comment-34868</link>
		<dc:creator>old construction worker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 23:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2542#comment-34868</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m buying 10 copies and giving them to some pro AGW friends.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m buying 10 copies and giving them to some pro AGW friends.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Id</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/28/skeptical-article-on-climate-in-the-old-farmers-almanac/#comment-34822</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Id</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 20:21:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2542#comment-34822</guid>
		<description>Nice post, the UN organization IPCC is driving the climate hype through a corrupt government system.  They were formed with the purpose of identifying and combating man made climate change before there was any real evidence.

They would have no purpose for existence if they didn&#039;t find climate change so after only 2 years they had identified global warming and CO2 as a serious threat and began recommending formation of more organizations and committees which did the same.

Today billions of dollars are spent around the world by government organizations who&#039;s entire survival depends on man made global warming being true.  This had the necessary effect of corrupting the science beyond believability.

For more information you can go here.
http://noconsensus.wordpress.com/environment/anthropogenic-global-warming/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post, the UN organization IPCC is driving the climate hype through a corrupt government system.  They were formed with the purpose of identifying and combating man made climate change before there was any real evidence.</p>
<p>They would have no purpose for existence if they didn&#8217;t find climate change so after only 2 years they had identified global warming and CO2 as a serious threat and began recommending formation of more organizations and committees which did the same.</p>
<p>Today billions of dollars are spent around the world by government organizations who&#8217;s entire survival depends on man made global warming being true.  This had the necessary effect of corrupting the science beyond believability.</p>
<p>For more information you can go here.<br />
<a href="http://noconsensus.wordpress.com/environment/anthropogenic-global-warming/" rel="nofollow">http://noconsensus.wordpress.com/environment/anthropogenic-global-warming/</a></p>
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		<title>By: KW</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/28/skeptical-article-on-climate-in-the-old-farmers-almanac/#comment-34809</link>
		<dc:creator>KW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2542#comment-34809</guid>
		<description>I read this a couple weeks ago.  He&#039;s definitely putting himself out there with this bold prediction.

I think some of us are hoping that He&#039;s right so the agw bandwagon will go away.  Problem is, they probably won&#039;t.

Only time will tell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read this a couple weeks ago.  He&#8217;s definitely putting himself out there with this bold prediction.</p>
<p>I think some of us are hoping that He&#8217;s right so the agw bandwagon will go away.  Problem is, they probably won&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Only time will tell.</p>
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		<title>By: John Miller</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/28/skeptical-article-on-climate-in-the-old-farmers-almanac/#comment-34779</link>
		<dc:creator>John Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:46:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2542#comment-34779</guid>
		<description>Jeff - &quot;And yes, ppm are easely measured. They can measure ppb (parts per billion).&quot;  Okay then - give me a manufacturer and a model number.

Also, show me the standardized ISO9000/9001 level of quality control on these measurements that have been applied at all labs and at all times.  
 And no, 23ppm is the merely delta on the CO2 component, but CO2 is still being measured as a component of the whole and you are resolving against that whole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff &#8211; &#8220;And yes, ppm are easely measured. They can measure ppb (parts per billion).&#8221;  Okay then &#8211; give me a manufacturer and a model number.</p>
<p>Also, show me the standardized ISO9000/9001 level of quality control on these measurements that have been applied at all labs and at all times.<br />
 And no, 23ppm is the merely delta on the CO2 component, but CO2 is still being measured as a component of the whole and you are resolving against that whole.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/28/skeptical-article-on-climate-in-the-old-farmers-almanac/#comment-34775</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2542#comment-34775</guid>
		<description>John Miller:  your interpretation of ppm is a little scewed.  The total amount of CO2 is currently about 350ppm.  So 23ppm is acctualy about a 6.5% change.  That is fairly significant.  And yes, ppm are easely measured.  They can measure ppb (parts per billion).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Miller:  your interpretation of ppm is a little scewed.  The total amount of CO2 is currently about 350ppm.  So 23ppm is acctualy about a 6.5% change.  That is fairly significant.  And yes, ppm are easely measured.  They can measure ppb (parts per billion).</p>
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		<title>By: paminator</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/28/skeptical-article-on-climate-in-the-old-farmers-almanac/#comment-34771</link>
		<dc:creator>paminator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:04:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2542#comment-34771</guid>
		<description>sod- you say &quot;sorry, but people who use the 1998 till today graph, can NOT be taken seriously.&quot;

You mean like taking a temperature trend from 1970 to 1998 as an indication of catastrophic, unprecedented global warming?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sod- you say &#8220;sorry, but people who use the 1998 till today graph, can NOT be taken seriously.&#8221;</p>
<p>You mean like taking a temperature trend from 1970 to 1998 as an indication of catastrophic, unprecedented global warming?</p>
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		<title>By: John Miller</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/28/skeptical-article-on-climate-in-the-old-farmers-almanac/#comment-34746</link>
		<dc:creator>John Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:48:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2542#comment-34746</guid>
		<description>This may have been discussed before, but looking at the CO2 to temperature trend, I realized that the right hand side has a scale measured in parts per million (PPM) and the delta between high and low is about 23PPM.  As a percentage of full scale, 23PPM is 0.0023%.  This is equvilent to a difference of less than 1 1/2 inches in a mile.  This may be stupid, but do we have instruments that are capable resolving 23PPM accurately and repeatably using diffrent instruments at different locations over time?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This may have been discussed before, but looking at the CO2 to temperature trend, I realized that the right hand side has a scale measured in parts per million (PPM) and the delta between high and low is about 23PPM.  As a percentage of full scale, 23PPM is 0.0023%.  This is equvilent to a difference of less than 1 1/2 inches in a mile.  This may be stupid, but do we have instruments that are capable resolving 23PPM accurately and repeatably using diffrent instruments at different locations over time?</p>
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		<title>By: peter taylor</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/28/skeptical-article-on-climate-in-the-old-farmers-almanac/#comment-34745</link>
		<dc:creator>peter taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:45:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2542#comment-34745</guid>
		<description>an answer for jonnyb -

I am also watching the cold spots - the most important was the one off Alaska which appeared by the end of 2006, and I presume is part of the PDO shift - for the previous 30 years the jetstream drove lower weather into Alaska, sucking heat out of the gyre and dumping it and warming the shelf region, the coldness of which normally drives the Arctic Ocean gyre - that reversed its cyclonic nature and the Arctic sucked in warm water from the North Atlantic, and cloud from the Pacific - hence melting the ice from below and above - now that will end, Alaska will cool, the gyre will get going and the whole Arctic will refreeze - for at least 30 years, maybe longer if the sun doesn&#039;t get going!

Yes - there is a new coolspot off SW Ireland - could spell the end of a similar North Atlantic heatstore to the NW Pacific- depends - the NA hotspot is deeper and the shifted jetstream of 2007-2008 summer may just have sucked the surface waters cooler - dumping in the UK and all the way to the eastern Baltic (no &#039;summers&#039; no real winters either). 

I&#039;m waiting for another coldspot further north in the Atlantic - south of Iceland, as I suspect cloud displacement will open this area to rapid heat loss from September on - unless the jetstream re-aligns.

There are some specialists who think the jetstream responds to the solar cycle - moving south at the low-points, and staying there during Maunder type minimums - with major consequences.

Our own UK Metoffice don&#039;t study the jetstream! Yet it is obvious there have been major shifts in 2007 and 2008 with consequences throughout Europe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>an answer for jonnyb -</p>
<p>I am also watching the cold spots &#8211; the most important was the one off Alaska which appeared by the end of 2006, and I presume is part of the PDO shift &#8211; for the previous 30 years the jetstream drove lower weather into Alaska, sucking heat out of the gyre and dumping it and warming the shelf region, the coldness of which normally drives the Arctic Ocean gyre &#8211; that reversed its cyclonic nature and the Arctic sucked in warm water from the North Atlantic, and cloud from the Pacific &#8211; hence melting the ice from below and above &#8211; now that will end, Alaska will cool, the gyre will get going and the whole Arctic will refreeze &#8211; for at least 30 years, maybe longer if the sun doesn&#8217;t get going!</p>
<p>Yes &#8211; there is a new coolspot off SW Ireland &#8211; could spell the end of a similar North Atlantic heatstore to the NW Pacific- depends &#8211; the NA hotspot is deeper and the shifted jetstream of 2007-2008 summer may just have sucked the surface waters cooler &#8211; dumping in the UK and all the way to the eastern Baltic (no &#8217;summers&#8217; no real winters either). </p>
<p>I&#8217;m waiting for another coldspot further north in the Atlantic &#8211; south of Iceland, as I suspect cloud displacement will open this area to rapid heat loss from September on &#8211; unless the jetstream re-aligns.</p>
<p>There are some specialists who think the jetstream responds to the solar cycle &#8211; moving south at the low-points, and staying there during Maunder type minimums &#8211; with major consequences.</p>
<p>Our own UK Metoffice don&#8217;t study the jetstream! Yet it is obvious there have been major shifts in 2007 and 2008 with consequences throughout Europe.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan McCune</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/28/skeptical-article-on-climate-in-the-old-farmers-almanac/#comment-34744</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan McCune</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:42:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2542#comment-34744</guid>
		<description>sod (01:26:09) : 

You may want read the Farmers Almanac article before you comment.  That one chart is an exception.   All of the other charts in the FA piece look at the entire 20th century with starting points of 1880, 1895, 1900 &amp; 1905.

Exception
http://www.almanac.com/timeline/coolclimate.php

Others
http://www.almanac.com/timeline/oceanchill.php
http://www.almanac.com/timeline/solar.php
http://www.almanac.com/timeline/index.php</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sod (01:26:09) : </p>
<p>You may want read the Farmers Almanac article before you comment.  That one chart is an exception.   All of the other charts in the FA piece look at the entire 20th century with starting points of 1880, 1895, 1900 &amp; 1905.</p>
<p>Exception<br />
<a href="http://www.almanac.com/timeline/coolclimate.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.almanac.com/timeline/coolclimate.php</a></p>
<p>Others<br />
<a href="http://www.almanac.com/timeline/oceanchill.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.almanac.com/timeline/oceanchill.php</a><br />
<a href="http://www.almanac.com/timeline/solar.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.almanac.com/timeline/solar.php</a><br />
<a href="http://www.almanac.com/timeline/index.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.almanac.com/timeline/index.php</a></p>
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		<title>By: Johnnyb</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/28/skeptical-article-on-climate-in-the-old-farmers-almanac/#comment-34733</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnnyb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:05:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2542#comment-34733</guid>
		<description>ATTN: Anthony Watts

I have been watching cold SST anomalies develop around the world seeming to center around N 47 30&#039; for the last month.  The cool spots include areas off the coast of Maine, Ireland, the Sea of Okhotsk and the Gulf of Alaska.  

Is there a name for this phenomenon?  

Is this being caused by an upwelling or wind patterns?  

Do these cool spots have anything to do with the shift in the PDO or AMO?

Any reason that they could be centered around the same latitude?

If this phenomenon is persistent, how might it effect the Climate of our friends in Canada, Europe, North East Asia, and of course us here in the States?

Please pardon me for failing to do my own homework in this regard, but I believe that I lack the prerequisite knowledge to do effective research in my attempt to understand this observation.  

Thanks for your help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ATTN: Anthony Watts</p>
<p>I have been watching cold SST anomalies develop around the world seeming to center around N 47 30&#8242; for the last month.  The cool spots include areas off the coast of Maine, Ireland, the Sea of Okhotsk and the Gulf of Alaska.  </p>
<p>Is there a name for this phenomenon?  </p>
<p>Is this being caused by an upwelling or wind patterns?  </p>
<p>Do these cool spots have anything to do with the shift in the PDO or AMO?</p>
<p>Any reason that they could be centered around the same latitude?</p>
<p>If this phenomenon is persistent, how might it effect the Climate of our friends in Canada, Europe, North East Asia, and of course us here in the States?</p>
<p>Please pardon me for failing to do my own homework in this regard, but I believe that I lack the prerequisite knowledge to do effective research in my attempt to understand this observation.  </p>
<p>Thanks for your help.</p>
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		<title>By: Ric Werme</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/28/skeptical-article-on-climate-in-the-old-farmers-almanac/#comment-34715</link>
		<dc:creator>Ric Werme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:42:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2542#comment-34715</guid>
		<description>doug janeway (20:05:03) :
&lt;blockquote&gt;
    I’m still not convinced that cycle 24 started 1/4/2008. ...  If cycle 24 started in July 2006 it portends a very quiet cycle ahead, and it give me the shivers.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Unfortunately there are two definitions of &quot;solar cycle&quot; at work.  When talking about an individual cycle it&#039;s from the first spot to the last.  When talking about the series of solar cycles, its from the point where the smoothed average over 12 months has the new cycle spots outnumbering the old.  So, while we are in an overlap of cycles 23 and 24, we haven&#039;t reached the transition between 23 and 24.  Sigh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>doug janeway (20:05:03) :</p>
<blockquote><p>
    I’m still not convinced that cycle 24 started 1/4/2008. &#8230;  If cycle 24 started in July 2006 it portends a very quiet cycle ahead, and it give me the shivers.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Unfortunately there are two definitions of &#8220;solar cycle&#8221; at work.  When talking about an individual cycle it&#8217;s from the first spot to the last.  When talking about the series of solar cycles, its from the point where the smoothed average over 12 months has the new cycle spots outnumbering the old.  So, while we are in an overlap of cycles 23 and 24, we haven&#8217;t reached the transition between 23 and 24.  Sigh.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkW</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/28/skeptical-article-on-climate-in-the-old-farmers-almanac/#comment-34712</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 12:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2542#comment-34712</guid>
		<description>Cycle 24 does not start when the first cycle 24 spot appears, but when cycle 24 spots outnumber cycle 23 spots.  This means that the turning point can only be spotted in the rear view mirror.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cycle 24 does not start when the first cycle 24 spot appears, but when cycle 24 spots outnumber cycle 23 spots.  This means that the turning point can only be spotted in the rear view mirror.</p>
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		<title>By: Barry Davey</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/28/skeptical-article-on-climate-in-the-old-farmers-almanac/#comment-34704</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry Davey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 11:28:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2542#comment-34704</guid>
		<description>The Hadley Centre has recently changed the way that the smoothed time series of data were calculated, see - http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcrut3/

This now shows global temperature rising rather than falling in recent years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Hadley Centre has recently changed the way that the smoothed time series of data were calculated, see &#8211; <a href="http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcrut3/" rel="nofollow">http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcrut3/</a></p>
<p>This now shows global temperature rising rather than falling in recent years.</p>
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		<title>By: Bobby Lane</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/28/skeptical-article-on-climate-in-the-old-farmers-almanac/#comment-34688</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobby Lane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:04:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2542#comment-34688</guid>
		<description>Several responses to posts:

1.  Steven Hill:  Gore was right in words, just in the wrong direction.  As they say, things may eventually get better, but first they are set to get a lot worse.  But he is right about McCain, though principally because it is beyond the reach of human power not because McCain has sold out or is cold hearted.

2. Deepslope: the proponents of AGW theory are NOT rational at their core.  Never expect them to be so and you will find yourself less puzzled.  They will allow for this and that event, or this and that possibility, but never the falsification or destruction of their pet hypothesis.  That they will not even consider for a moment.  Even if this cooling lasts two or three decades, they will just say it was nature overriding the warming man is causing, and that we will shortly be back on our way to hell on earth.   I would reckon it as akin to trying to prove to an atheist that there is a God, or a committed Christian that there isn&#039;t.  It will simply never be a matter of facts and arguments.  AGW is a quasi-religion cloaked in the veneer of quasi-science with deep but fairly simple political/financial connections backing it.  Remember that too and you will be far less puzzled.

3. Sod: yes, the pro-AGW has never misused graphs to try to score points with the general public *coughGorecough*  although at the same time I am not saying D&#039;Aleo is misusing the graph.  I think his simple argument is that we are cooling and global temperatures on any scale will show that fact.  Cooling is a relative term, just as warming is.  Whether this cooling aids in proving or disproving AGW, I believe, is a matter of faith.  But the Medieval Warm Period was warmer than we are now (unless they have secretly started growing vineyards again throughout England and Scandanavia) so in almost any sense that you like we are cooling (again).  I need not remind you there were no major industrialized nations in the MWP.   

Much like any radical political group, I don&#039;t find it odd in the least that the pro-AGW crowd demands a united political front moving in the direction that is most advantageous their own interests.  And much like any radical political group, they are quite willing to sacrifice anything and anyone to get the power they want.  If the case really rested on science, the pro-AGW crowd could say &quot;here&#039;s the evidence, and while it&#039;s your decision don&#039;t say we didnt warn you.&quot; That is respect for the truth and human freedom.  But that is not the way they act.   They demand action now, control now, power now.  And there is a lot of money to be made, also, in the new environmentally-friendly world they would love to legislate into reality.  And so, as with any other radical political group, they shall eventually be found out, replete with embarassed fellow-travelers.  Yet, of course, I expect the adherents to maintain their faith in spite of any evidence to the contrary and in spite of whatever direction the world may take - in politics, science, or climate.  Personally, I hope the expression &quot;human-caused global warming&quot; will one day receive the brief chuckle and roll of the eyes that &quot;the Earth is flat&quot; receives now.  Another reminder of that old adage: the more we learn the less we discover we know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Several responses to posts:</p>
<p>1.  Steven Hill:  Gore was right in words, just in the wrong direction.  As they say, things may eventually get better, but first they are set to get a lot worse.  But he is right about McCain, though principally because it is beyond the reach of human power not because McCain has sold out or is cold hearted.</p>
<p>2. Deepslope: the proponents of AGW theory are NOT rational at their core.  Never expect them to be so and you will find yourself less puzzled.  They will allow for this and that event, or this and that possibility, but never the falsification or destruction of their pet hypothesis.  That they will not even consider for a moment.  Even if this cooling lasts two or three decades, they will just say it was nature overriding the warming man is causing, and that we will shortly be back on our way to hell on earth.   I would reckon it as akin to trying to prove to an atheist that there is a God, or a committed Christian that there isn&#8217;t.  It will simply never be a matter of facts and arguments.  AGW is a quasi-religion cloaked in the veneer of quasi-science with deep but fairly simple political/financial connections backing it.  Remember that too and you will be far less puzzled.</p>
<p>3. Sod: yes, the pro-AGW has never misused graphs to try to score points with the general public *coughGorecough*  although at the same time I am not saying D&#8217;Aleo is misusing the graph.  I think his simple argument is that we are cooling and global temperatures on any scale will show that fact.  Cooling is a relative term, just as warming is.  Whether this cooling aids in proving or disproving AGW, I believe, is a matter of faith.  But the Medieval Warm Period was warmer than we are now (unless they have secretly started growing vineyards again throughout England and Scandanavia) so in almost any sense that you like we are cooling (again).  I need not remind you there were no major industrialized nations in the MWP.   </p>
<p>Much like any radical political group, I don&#8217;t find it odd in the least that the pro-AGW crowd demands a united political front moving in the direction that is most advantageous their own interests.  And much like any radical political group, they are quite willing to sacrifice anything and anyone to get the power they want.  If the case really rested on science, the pro-AGW crowd could say &#8220;here&#8217;s the evidence, and while it&#8217;s your decision don&#8217;t say we didnt warn you.&#8221; That is respect for the truth and human freedom.  But that is not the way they act.   They demand action now, control now, power now.  And there is a lot of money to be made, also, in the new environmentally-friendly world they would love to legislate into reality.  And so, as with any other radical political group, they shall eventually be found out, replete with embarassed fellow-travelers.  Yet, of course, I expect the adherents to maintain their faith in spite of any evidence to the contrary and in spite of whatever direction the world may take &#8211; in politics, science, or climate.  Personally, I hope the expression &#8220;human-caused global warming&#8221; will one day receive the brief chuckle and roll of the eyes that &#8220;the Earth is flat&#8221; receives now.  Another reminder of that old adage: the more we learn the less we discover we know.</p>
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		<title>By: F Rasmin</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/28/skeptical-article-on-climate-in-the-old-farmers-almanac/#comment-34687</link>
		<dc:creator>F Rasmin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:56:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2542#comment-34687</guid>
		<description>Here in Australia we are so gullible (we are showing the world how a country can destroy itself with ill-conceived carbon taxes) that once that film is shown on Channel 9 at the weekend, the dams in Sydney will empty as we  fill up every container we can lay our hands on from the tap in readiness for 2012!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here in Australia we are so gullible (we are showing the world how a country can destroy itself with ill-conceived carbon taxes) that once that film is shown on Channel 9 at the weekend, the dams in Sydney will empty as we  fill up every container we can lay our hands on from the tap in readiness for 2012!</p>
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		<title>By: Renze</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/28/skeptical-article-on-climate-in-the-old-farmers-almanac/#comment-34686</link>
		<dc:creator>Renze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:22:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2542#comment-34686</guid>
		<description>Please watch : http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/eisschmelze100.html
It&#039;s handeling the dramatic warming and the north west/east passage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please watch : <a href="http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/eisschmelze100.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/eisschmelze100.html</a><br />
It&#8217;s handeling the dramatic warming and the north west/east passage.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary Hinge</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/28/skeptical-article-on-climate-in-the-old-farmers-almanac/#comment-34685</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Hinge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:11:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2542#comment-34685</guid>
		<description>F Rasmin (16:00:24) : 

&quot;Here in Australia, a major TV station has decided to try to top that film ‘The Day After Tomorrow’.&quot;

Maybe they should show the greatest film ever insted &quot;The miracle of Headingly&quot;! Set in the green pastures of middle England in 1981, it sets out how Botham the Great against all the odds engaged the Aussie hoards, narrowly defeating the invaders using the might of his willow sword. Never to recover from this humilating defeat, having seized defeat from the jaws of victory, the Aussies succombed to a series defeat and lost the most holy ashes. 
At least this film is a true story, not Hollywood science fiction entertainment!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>F Rasmin (16:00:24) : </p>
<p>&#8220;Here in Australia, a major TV station has decided to try to top that film ‘The Day After Tomorrow’.&#8221;</p>
<p>Maybe they should show the greatest film ever insted &#8220;The miracle of Headingly&#8221;! Set in the green pastures of middle England in 1981, it sets out how Botham the Great against all the odds engaged the Aussie hoards, narrowly defeating the invaders using the might of his willow sword. Never to recover from this humilating defeat, having seized defeat from the jaws of victory, the Aussies succombed to a series defeat and lost the most holy ashes.<br />
At least this film is a true story, not Hollywood science fiction entertainment!</p>
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		<title>By: alexjc38</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/08/28/skeptical-article-on-climate-in-the-old-farmers-almanac/#comment-34683</link>
		<dc:creator>alexjc38</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:44:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=2542#comment-34683</guid>
		<description>Talking of climate porn, the BBC put on a steamy show of their own this summer, called Burn Up. I missed it, unfortunately, but will probably get the DVD sometime next decade, as it will probably become an amusing reminder of the millennial carbon panic. There&#039;s a review of it &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2008/07/24/nosplit/bvtv24last.xml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Talking of climate porn, the BBC put on a steamy show of their own this summer, called Burn Up. I missed it, unfortunately, but will probably get the DVD sometime next decade, as it will probably become an amusing reminder of the millennial carbon panic. There&#8217;s a review of it <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2008/07/24/nosplit/bvtv24last.xml" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
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