Comments on: California Wildfires: not global warming, but “business as usual” for nature

By: testingforclass

testingforclass — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 13:27:34 +0000

This a very informative blog. Thanks for posting!

By: Jay Alt

Jay Alt — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 19:30:20 +0000

It is correct to point out that many things influence the frequency of wildfires. Fire suppression and other land-use activities rank high in that regard. But how do quasi-annual shifts in the PDO account for the 2 month increase in the fire season from the 1970s to the present? No list of personal opinions and painstakingly selected anecdotes explains it, regardless of their number. The post avoids addressing that central fact.

By: Philip McDaniel

Philip McDaniel — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 12:17:36 +0000

A friend of mine from California says that a major contribution to the fire devastation of homes and infrastructure there is due to very strict regulations on clearing undergrowth. Is this the case?

REPLY: Yes that is true, environmentalists have fought tooth and nail to keep that from happening. The big fires in Lake Tahoe last year were a direct result of that.

By: Retired Engineer

Retired Engineer — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 01:21:49 +0000

If you build a house six feet below sea level, near an ocean, sooner or later it will get wet. Ditto if you build on a flood plain.
If you build on a fault line, it will eventually fall down.
Build in a dry forest and some day it will burn down.

Hubris: assuming you can beat Mother Nature.

By: swampie

swampie — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 22:12:49 +0000

R.J. Hendrickson:

Concrete, metal-roofed houses would indeed be much more fire resistant than wood construction. Unfortunately, earthquake-proofing concrete quadruples the cost over wood, and ditto with metal roofing. It’s much, much, much cheaper to clear brush and buy some of that fire gel stuff that you spray on before the fire hits. Why the firefighters don’t use more of this gel stuff I don’t know, seems like it would be cheaper to protect people and structure with this, and let the fires burn themselves out.

I recommend a fire wrap over gels and foams, which can quickly lose their effectiveness under dry, hot conditions.

By: papertiger

papertiger — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 18:50:51 +0000

REPLY: This: “The Chumash Indian name for what is now the Los Angeles area translates to “the valley of smoke,” according to Gordon J. MacDonald, a geophysicist and professor formerly with the University of California, San Diego.”

Apparently came froma paper he published which is easily found on Google:

Chris Bowman uses google to check and recheck the facts!
Twice as rare for the Bee.

Oh and counter, the temperature of the planet is at a 20 year low – the planet – not just the Pacific Northwest. Evan is right.

By: RJ Hendrickson

RJ Hendrickson — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 18:14:41 +0000

Tony Brown:

Concrete, metal-roofed houses would indeed be much more fire resistant than wood construction. Unfortunately, earthquake-proofing concrete quadruples the cost over wood, and ditto with metal roofing. It’s much, much, much cheaper to clear brush and buy some of that fire gel stuff that you spray on before the fire hits. Why the firefighters don’t use more of this gel stuff I don’t know, seems like it would be cheaper to protect people and structure with this, and let the fires burn themselves out.

By: Paul

Paul — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 18:00:06 +0000

Read the book, 1491, for an interesting look at environmental management by the aboriginal Americans prior to Columbus. It was very heavy handed. The Indians in the Northeast burned the place down every fall to be sure that there would be good grazing for the wildlife come spring. The early English settlers in New England were amazed to find the forests so open that they could drive a horse and carriage through them with no trouble at all. These days, the forests are so dense that you have a very hard time getting a hundred yards off the trail in a wilderness area. And if you did manage it, you’d be lost in no time.

By: SteveSadlov

SteveSadlov — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 17:29:40 +0000

In addition to the La Nina / Negative PDO drought the past two rainy seasons, there is something else I have noticed. Namely, synoptic scale winds have not really entered into a true summer pattern this year. Instead, the spring / fall northerly seems to be dominating. That is a double curse, because it prevents the marine westerly flow, and, brings compressive wind events on the downslopes. Really bad deal.

Global cooling means more fires in Cali.

By: Erik Anderson

Erik Anderson — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 16:49:53 +0000

I too have been wondering about how much CO2 is in the local atmosphere when our region (in the Northern California Valley) is inundated with smoke — 1000+ ppm? Redding was re-covered with smoke yesterday evening, but temperatures cooled off quickly overnight. This never happens on cloudy nights, which are notoriously warm, perhaps demonstrating that H2O truly is the king of greenhouse gases.

By: cowboy the cat

cowboy the cat — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 16:04:27 +0000

The funniest thing about this article put out in 2008 is that Gordon J. MacDonald has been dead since 2002.

Where the hell did they get all those quotes?

REPLY: This: “The Chumash Indian name for what is now the Los Angeles area translates to “the valley of smoke,” according to Gordon J. MacDonald, a geophysicist and professor formerly with the University of California, San Diego.”

Apparently came froma paper he published which is easily found on Google:

The Journal of Environment & Development Gordon J. MacDonald authored for his Harvard Class of 1950 50-year class reunion in … lates into “the valley of smoke.” When there is a temperature inver- …
jed.sagepub.com/cgi/reprint/12/2/151.pdf – Similar pages

You can be dead and quoted from a journal or article. Look how often people quote what Einstein or John F. Kennedy said. A little research before shooting cowboy.

By: swampie

swampie — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 16:01:38 +0000

So, Californians, do you know what, if any, is your state government’s strategy to deal with a prolonged period of drought and above normal wildfire conditions for the next 30 years?

By: Jeff Alberts

Jeff Alberts — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:39:52 +0000

Ric Werme: “Evan, perhaps “They [should pave] Paradise and put up a parking lot.””

Now you’ve gone and done it! You owe Joni Mitchell a royalty check!

By: Austin

Austin — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:30:52 +0000

The entire Great Plains burned every 4-7 years. One fire in the 1870s burned from the Missouri River into Texas in just a few days.

By: David Gladstone

David Gladstone — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:04:50 +0000

This am CNN’s meteorologist Miles O’Brien tied the fires to AGW despite total lack of evidence; it’s becoming more and more obvious that fanning the flames of this hysteria is part of the CNN corporate agenda. As they say, follow the money.

By: Yorick

Yorick — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 14:11:12 +0000

Once the indians got horses, they did what the Mongols did when they got horses, started large fires to create and maintain grasslands which increased the value of their horses, for the same reason we built the interstate highway system.

Also, potassium production throughout the little ice age meant that the eastern North American skies were always smokey. Greenland ice cores show this. Alaskan ice cores also keep a record of fire levels. Not sure what they show historically, but we have smoke data going back thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of years. THere is no reason for any scientifically literate person not to do the comparison for themselves.

By: counters

counters — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 13:24:13 +0000

Evan Jones, you said, “I.e., it was global cooling.” No, it was regional cooling. A negative ENSO index (La Nina) correlates with a shift in atmospheric circulation patterns that has strong, albeit divergent regional weather changes. Anthony noted one of the important ones which is an emergent pattern over the Southwest, particularly California, which is characterized by strong winds and less precipitation – weather which strongly helps conditions for forest fires. However, this is not the only pattern that evolves from a La Nina. If you check out the “El Nino southern oscillation” page on Wikipedia, there are some good diagrams that show both the Summer/Weather regional weather patterns associated with El Nino and La Nina.

Appropriate blame has been brought up over the mis-informed environmentalist meme of the past few decades which stated that all forest logging is bad. Logging, when practiced in a prescribed manner, can be pivotal in helping regulate the natural “fire cycles” which forests undergo. However it is my understanding that opening up our forests to un-regulated logging would not improve the fire conditions in a positive manner. This is because that logging as a profitable endeavour targets the wrong material; the root of forest fires is the buildup of clutter on the forest floor – stuff that has no potential monetary yield for loggers. Regulated logging which helped reduce some of the over-cluttered forest floor while maintaining floor diversity in flora in fauna could dramatically help us reduce the risk of forest fire and help us control its spread.

By: Tony Edwards

Tony Edwards — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 12:31:18 +0000

Of course, the fact that most of the houses built in fire country seem to be made of timber frames and siding doesn’t get a mention. Block and concrete construction with galvanised roofs would make buildings very much less vulnerable to forest fires. Come to that, rather like people who build in flood plains, if you make yourself a target and get hit, don’t come crying “Why me?”. Or you don’t want to have your house fried, either build it fireproof or don’t build it there.

By: Ric Werme

Ric Werme — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 11:55:05 +0000

Good Morning America’s daily Cailfornia fire report came from Chico. Their area map include a flame near Paradise. I’ve always thought that California’s nickname should be “The Disaster State”. Evan, perhaps “They [should pave] Paradise and put up a parking lot.”

In local NH, err, New Hampshire, news, a contingent of firefighters were sent out to California to help out. Given the temperature forecast for your area, I’m glad I’m not one of them.

By: papertiger

papertiger — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 10:10:38 +0000

Chris Bowman wrote a balanced fact driven rather then emotional based article. This sort or reportage is rare for the Bee.
Mr. Bowman sounds like a reporter worth cultivation.
I mean if we were to send him the real story regarding climate change, he just might print it.
After all, Al Gore and Jimmy Hansen in league with the Tides foundation, Wikipedia Connolley, Fenton Communications, Real Climate, and Enron, screwing the whole state energy grid, in order to make some lack luster Natural Gas infrastructure into a climate change gold mine is a very sexy story.