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	<title>Comments on: USGS + NOAA = Monster Earth Sciences Bureaucracy</title>
	<atom:link href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/07/04/usgs-noaa-monster-earth-sciences-bureaucracy/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/07/04/usgs-noaa-monster-earth-sciences-bureaucracy/</link>
	<description>The world&#039;s most viewed site on global warming and climate change</description>
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		<title>By: Jamie J</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/07/04/usgs-noaa-monster-earth-sciences-bureaucracy/#comment-33198</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jamie J]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 16:00:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Ric Werme:

AGW is alive and well in the USGS.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ric Werme:</p>
<p>AGW is alive and well in the USGS.</p>
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		<title>By: AnyMouse</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/07/04/usgs-noaa-monster-earth-sciences-bureaucracy/#comment-23216</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AnyMouse]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 04:17:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1572#comment-23216</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;
All Jim Hansen needs is someone with a geologist’s sense of time to point out he needs to look a timeframe that is 1000X longer.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I think geologists have accepted that the Sun is the cause of the global warming which will destroy life on Earth when the Sun turns into a red giant.  I doubt Hansen&#039;s computers can handle geological time scales...or contemporary time scales.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
All Jim Hansen needs is someone with a geologist’s sense of time to point out he needs to look a timeframe that is 1000X longer.
</p></blockquote>
<p>I think geologists have accepted that the Sun is the cause of the global warming which will destroy life on Earth when the Sun turns into a red giant.  I doubt Hansen&#8217;s computers can handle geological time scales&#8230;or contemporary time scales.</p>
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		<title>By: Ric Werme</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/07/04/usgs-noaa-monster-earth-sciences-bureaucracy/#comment-23188</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ric Werme]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 01:09:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1572#comment-23188</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh cool.  All Jim Hansen needs is someone with a geologist&#039;s sense of time to point out he needs to look a timeframe that is 1000X longer.  And another geologist to point out some of the catastrophes that put to shame anything anthropogenic CO2 can dish out.

I&#039;m not a geologist, but I like to claim that the biggest catastrophe that has affected life on Earth was the development of photosynthesis.  The shift from a reducing atmosphere to an oxidizing one forced the dominant lifeforms (bacteria) underground.  They&#039;re still around as anaerobic bacteria, and still play a vital role, but their niche became a lot smaller.

Photosynthesis also made CO2 a trace gas.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh cool.  All Jim Hansen needs is someone with a geologist&#8217;s sense of time to point out he needs to look a timeframe that is 1000X longer.  And another geologist to point out some of the catastrophes that put to shame anything anthropogenic CO2 can dish out.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not a geologist, but I like to claim that the biggest catastrophe that has affected life on Earth was the development of photosynthesis.  The shift from a reducing atmosphere to an oxidizing one forced the dominant lifeforms (bacteria) underground.  They&#8217;re still around as anaerobic bacteria, and still play a vital role, but their niche became a lot smaller.</p>
<p>Photosynthesis also made CO2 a trace gas.</p>
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		<title>By: lucia</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/07/04/usgs-noaa-monster-earth-sciences-bureaucracy/#comment-23083</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lucia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 18:39:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1572#comment-23083</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Would NOAA and USGS even want to merge?  Government agencies rarely want to merge.  The head of at least one agency would no longer head an agency.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would NOAA and USGS even want to merge?  Government agencies rarely want to merge.  The head of at least one agency would no longer head an agency.</p>
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		<title>By: swampie</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/07/04/usgs-noaa-monster-earth-sciences-bureaucracy/#comment-23040</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[swampie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 15:05:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1572#comment-23040</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Philip_B

You&#039;ve got that right.  One of my previous self-employment careers was auditing hospitals for overcharges for clients (insurance companies).   I told daughter when she was expecting her first child to keep a close eye on her bills and hold on to her wallet, because she was going to be egregiously overcharged even with insurance.  She did not believe me and was not sufficiently motivated to audit her charges. 

With her second child, money was tighter.  She went over every charge for medication, procedures, etc.   She was shocked to discover that her obstetrician&#039;s office alone had overcharged her by $800 that she had paid out of her own pocket. 

I shudder to think of the errors, some deliberate and some by incompetence, that are not challenged in areas that are not audited.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Philip_B</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve got that right.  One of my previous self-employment careers was auditing hospitals for overcharges for clients (insurance companies).   I told daughter when she was expecting her first child to keep a close eye on her bills and hold on to her wallet, because she was going to be egregiously overcharged even with insurance.  She did not believe me and was not sufficiently motivated to audit her charges. </p>
<p>With her second child, money was tighter.  She went over every charge for medication, procedures, etc.   She was shocked to discover that her obstetrician&#8217;s office alone had overcharged her by $800 that she had paid out of her own pocket. </p>
<p>I shudder to think of the errors, some deliberate and some by incompetence, that are not challenged in areas that are not audited.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Hanley</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/07/04/usgs-noaa-monster-earth-sciences-bureaucracy/#comment-23014</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris Hanley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 09:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1572#comment-23014</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The image says it all.
Brilliant.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The image says it all.<br />
Brilliant.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: John A</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/07/04/usgs-noaa-monster-earth-sciences-bureaucracy/#comment-23010</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John A]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 09:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1572#comment-23010</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And who would lead this monster new unelected branch of government masquerading as a scientific insitution?

James Hansen.

The USA&#039;s own Trofim Lysenko.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And who would lead this monster new unelected branch of government masquerading as a scientific insitution?</p>
<p>James Hansen.</p>
<p>The USA&#8217;s own Trofim Lysenko.</p>
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		<title>By: AnyMouse</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/07/04/usgs-noaa-monster-earth-sciences-bureaucracy/#comment-22977</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AnyMouse]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 01:25:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1572#comment-22977</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Did you see what else was in Science?  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/321/5885/111&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Greenland western glaciers slowed over last 17 years.&lt;/a&gt;  Seems ice surges are very brief.  Article doesn&#039;t mention they also happen in the summer, when the ice surge scientists are there measuring.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/07/03/nyt-maybe-greenland-isnt-melting-after-all&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;NewsBusters summarizes.&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did you see what else was in Science?  <a href="http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/321/5885/111" rel="nofollow">Greenland western glaciers slowed over last 17 years.</a>  Seems ice surges are very brief.  Article doesn&#8217;t mention they also happen in the summer, when the ice surge scientists are there measuring.  <a href="http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/07/03/nyt-maybe-greenland-isnt-melting-after-all" rel="nofollow">NewsBusters summarizes.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Evan Jones</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/07/04/usgs-noaa-monster-earth-sciences-bureaucracy/#comment-22973</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Evan Jones]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 01:02:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1572#comment-22973</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[FWIW, I am a liberal Republican.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FWIW, I am a liberal Republican.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Smokey</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/07/04/usgs-noaa-monster-earth-sciences-bureaucracy/#comment-22966</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Smokey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 00:27:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1572#comment-22966</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m an Independent, but I recall another quote appropriate for today:

&quot;Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15th.&quot;
~Ronald Reagan]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m an Independent, but I recall another quote appropriate for today:</p>
<p>&#8220;Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15th.&#8221;<br />
~Ronald Reagan</p>
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		<title>By: Philip_B</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/07/04/usgs-noaa-monster-earth-sciences-bureaucracy/#comment-22963</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Philip_B]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 23:46:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1572#comment-22963</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Michael Crichton has an excellent and relevant proposal.

Sooner or later, we must form an independent research institute in this country. It must be funded by industry, by government, and by private philanthropy, both individuals and trusts. The money must be pooled, so that investigators do not know who is paying them. The institute must fund more than one team to do research in a particular area, and the verification of results will be a foregone requirement: teams will know their results will be checked by other groups. In many cases, those who decide how to gather the data will not gather it, and those who gather the data will not analyze it. If we were to address the land temperature records with such rigor, we would be well on our way to an understanding of exactly how much faith we can place in global warming, and therefore what seriousness we must address this. 

http://www.crichton-official.com/speech-alienscauseglobalwarming.html

And I&#039;d add, independent third party audits.

These kinds of separation of responsibility are legally required in business to prevent errors and outright fraud. 

Whether or not errors or fraud occur in climate science is irrelevant. The purpose of the procedures is to prevent it happening.

In business, if you told an auditor that you didn&#039;t need these procedures, because there is no fraud in your company, they would roll around the floor laughing. And trust me, auditors don&#039;t laugh often.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael Crichton has an excellent and relevant proposal.</p>
<p>Sooner or later, we must form an independent research institute in this country. It must be funded by industry, by government, and by private philanthropy, both individuals and trusts. The money must be pooled, so that investigators do not know who is paying them. The institute must fund more than one team to do research in a particular area, and the verification of results will be a foregone requirement: teams will know their results will be checked by other groups. In many cases, those who decide how to gather the data will not gather it, and those who gather the data will not analyze it. If we were to address the land temperature records with such rigor, we would be well on our way to an understanding of exactly how much faith we can place in global warming, and therefore what seriousness we must address this. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.crichton-official.com/speech-alienscauseglobalwarming.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.crichton-official.com/speech-alienscauseglobalwarming.html</a></p>
<p>And I&#8217;d add, independent third party audits.</p>
<p>These kinds of separation of responsibility are legally required in business to prevent errors and outright fraud. </p>
<p>Whether or not errors or fraud occur in climate science is irrelevant. The purpose of the procedures is to prevent it happening.</p>
<p>In business, if you told an auditor that you didn&#8217;t need these procedures, because there is no fraud in your company, they would roll around the floor laughing. And trust me, auditors don&#8217;t laugh often.</p>
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		<title>By: Lloyd Graves</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/07/04/usgs-noaa-monster-earth-sciences-bureaucracy/#comment-22958</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lloyd Graves]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 23:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1572#comment-22958</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Perhaps a Reagan quote is in order  “The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a government program.” - Ronald Reagan]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps a Reagan quote is in order  “The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a government program.” &#8211; Ronald Reagan</p>
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		<title>By: K</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/07/04/usgs-noaa-monster-earth-sciences-bureaucracy/#comment-22953</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[K]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 22:48:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1572#comment-22953</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Smokey: 
 
Thanks for your well organized reading of the article.   And your quote from Tolstoy is a gem. I saw it long ago but it had escaped my memory.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Smokey: </p>
<p>Thanks for your well organized reading of the article.   And your quote from Tolstoy is a gem. I saw it long ago but it had escaped my memory.</p>
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		<title>By: David Segesta</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/07/04/usgs-noaa-monster-earth-sciences-bureaucracy/#comment-22951</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Segesta]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 22:22:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1572#comment-22951</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Anthony I know this isn&#039;t  political website, but are you a Libertarian? Or at least a libertarian?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anthony I know this isn&#8217;t  political website, but are you a Libertarian? Or at least a libertarian?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Robert Ray</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/07/04/usgs-noaa-monster-earth-sciences-bureaucracy/#comment-22946</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Ray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 21:56:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1572#comment-22946</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mike,
It started as a typo but when I ran spellcheck the current form was one of the suggestions, so I used it instead of non-existing. Put it down to a blind hog finding an acorn.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,<br />
It started as a typo but when I ran spellcheck the current form was one of the suggestions, so I used it instead of non-existing. Put it down to a blind hog finding an acorn.</p>
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