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	<title>Comments on: The parking lot effect: temperature measurement bias of locations</title>
	<atom:link href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/26/the-parking-lot-effect-measurement-bias-in-locations/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/26/the-parking-lot-effect-measurement-bias-in-locations/</link>
	<description>The world&#039;s most viewed site on global warming and climate change</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 29 May 2012 15:38:32 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Marginalized Action Dinosaur &#187; How to make it 2 degrees warmer out after which say we will all die if we don&#8217;t buy carbon credits.</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/26/the-parking-lot-effect-measurement-bias-in-locations/#comment-15960</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Marginalized Action Dinosaur &#187; How to make it 2 degrees warmer out after which say we will all die if we don&#8217;t buy carbon credits.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 13:13:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1258#comment-15960</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/05/26/the-parking-lot-effect-measurement-bias-in-locations...   &#160; [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <a href="http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/05/26/the-parking-lot-effect-measurement-bias-in-locations" rel="nofollow">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/05/26/the-parking-lot-effect-measurement-bias-in-locations</a>&#8230;   &nbsp; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Global Warming update at Hoystory</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/26/the-parking-lot-effect-measurement-bias-in-locations/#comment-15918</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Global Warming update at Hoystory]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 05:03:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1258#comment-15918</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Up With That they&#8217;ve got some preliminary results from a study of what they&#8217;re calling &#8220;The Parking Lot Effect.&#8221; Follow the links for the details, but basically a paved surface like a parking lot can bias [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Up With That they&#8217;ve got some preliminary results from a study of what they&#8217;re calling &#8220;The Parking Lot Effect.&#8221; Follow the links for the details, but basically a paved surface like a parking lot can bias [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Finegan</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/26/the-parking-lot-effect-measurement-bias-in-locations/#comment-15897</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Scott Finegan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 01:07:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1258#comment-15897</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David,

Re: satelite view   (wider field of view)
I am curious to see what is around your chosen site, besides lots of barbed wire.

Best, 
  Scott]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>Re: satelite view   (wider field of view)<br />
I am curious to see what is around your chosen site, besides lots of barbed wire.</p>
<p>Best,<br />
  Scott</p>
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		<title>By: Evan Jones</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/26/the-parking-lot-effect-measurement-bias-in-locations/#comment-15866</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Evan Jones]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 20:28:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1258#comment-15866</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s not the number, it&#039;s the geographical distribution.

CRN is supposed to address this. Here&#039;s hoping.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not the number, it&#8217;s the geographical distribution.</p>
<p>CRN is supposed to address this. Here&#8217;s hoping.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/26/the-parking-lot-effect-measurement-bias-in-locations/#comment-15864</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 20:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1258#comment-15864</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Anthony, thanks for the link.  I have visited your site before; it&#039;s a great project.

I couldn&#039;t actually find any mention on the site the idea of a global clean temperature record, but I suppose after you&#039;ve identified enough sites it will be easy to construct.

Any idea how many (true) Class 1 sites you would need for the result to be statistically significant?  Maybe you have enough already?

Sean]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Anthony, thanks for the link.  I have visited your site before; it&#8217;s a great project.</p>
<p>I couldn&#8217;t actually find any mention on the site the idea of a global clean temperature record, but I suppose after you&#8217;ve identified enough sites it will be easy to construct.</p>
<p>Any idea how many (true) Class 1 sites you would need for the result to be statistically significant?  Maybe you have enough already?</p>
<p>Sean</p>
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		<title>By: SteveSadlov</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/26/the-parking-lot-effect-measurement-bias-in-locations/#comment-15851</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SteveSadlov]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 19:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1258#comment-15851</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[RE:  Mark O (13:56:56) :

Gage R &amp; R is treated, oddly, as a sort of heresy by most orthodox so called &quot;Climate Scientists.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE:  Mark O (13:56:56) :</p>
<p>Gage R &amp; R is treated, oddly, as a sort of heresy by most orthodox so called &#8220;Climate Scientists.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: James Lilling</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/26/the-parking-lot-effect-measurement-bias-in-locations/#comment-15846</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Lilling]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 18:35:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1258#comment-15846</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[They also sell an &quot;Ethernet and Internet Ready Thermometer with built in web server&quot; that has accuracy to .1 that uses separate thermistors as probes, but it&#039;s a bit pricy.

These devices have a 1 F internal resolution and a +/-2 F accuracy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They also sell an &#8220;Ethernet and Internet Ready Thermometer with built in web server&#8221; that has accuracy to .1 that uses separate thermistors as probes, but it&#8217;s a bit pricy.</p>
<p>These devices have a 1 F internal resolution and a +/-2 F accuracy.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/26/the-parking-lot-effect-measurement-bias-in-locations/#comment-15837</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 17:44:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1258#comment-15837</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s a question I always wanted to ask someone and this crowd seems like the right one to answer it:

Would it be possible to select, out of all the temperature stations in the world, 100 or so that are undeniably way out in the country removed from any possible urban creep effect, and which have been in the same place for decades, and plot the historical average temperature from these stations?  Basically create a &quot;pristine&quot; average temperature record?

Any comments appreciated.

Sean

&lt;strong&gt;REPLY:&lt;/strong&gt; I&#039;m working on that, see www.surfacestations.org - Anthony]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a question I always wanted to ask someone and this crowd seems like the right one to answer it:</p>
<p>Would it be possible to select, out of all the temperature stations in the world, 100 or so that are undeniably way out in the country removed from any possible urban creep effect, and which have been in the same place for decades, and plot the historical average temperature from these stations?  Basically create a &#8220;pristine&#8221; average temperature record?</p>
<p>Any comments appreciated.</p>
<p>Sean</p>
<p><strong>REPLY:</strong> I&#8217;m working on that, see <a href="http://www.surfacestations.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.surfacestations.org</a> &#8211; Anthony</p>
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		<title>By: DAV</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/26/the-parking-lot-effect-measurement-bias-in-locations/#comment-15828</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DAV]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 16:16:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1258#comment-15828</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Q&amp;D calibration procedure&quot;

Not a bad procedure although I would use a solid state warmer. They&#039;re often found in battery operated six-pack coolers. They&#039;re adjusted the same way, i.e. by changing the duty cycle, but not as noisy.

DS still needs to characterize the parking lot sensor (if he hasn&#039;t done so already) or the results aren&#039;t very meaningful because:

Let TP = temperature indicated by the parking lot sensor.
TP = Tp + Ep + EP,  where 
   Tp=true temp (ambient) at the sensor (if the parking lot wasn&#039;t there)
   Ep=sensor error
   EP=error introduced by the lot and surrounding terrain

Assuming DS knows the true temp of his own sensor (let&#039;s say at A and called TA), to find EP, he needs to calculate:

  EP&#039; = TP-TA = Tp+Ep+EP - TA

The built-in assumption is that Tp and Ta (the true ambient) should be the same but this is likely true.

See the problem? There are two unknowns (Ep and EP) in that step so unless he has  really knows the sensor  characteristics at the parking lot he&#039;s mostly wasting his time. What he&#039;s finding is (Ep+EP), which is what he set out to do.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Q&amp;D calibration procedure&#8221;</p>
<p>Not a bad procedure although I would use a solid state warmer. They&#8217;re often found in battery operated six-pack coolers. They&#8217;re adjusted the same way, i.e. by changing the duty cycle, but not as noisy.</p>
<p>DS still needs to characterize the parking lot sensor (if he hasn&#8217;t done so already) or the results aren&#8217;t very meaningful because:</p>
<p>Let TP = temperature indicated by the parking lot sensor.<br />
TP = Tp + Ep + EP,  where<br />
   Tp=true temp (ambient) at the sensor (if the parking lot wasn&#8217;t there)<br />
   Ep=sensor error<br />
   EP=error introduced by the lot and surrounding terrain</p>
<p>Assuming DS knows the true temp of his own sensor (let&#8217;s say at A and called TA), to find EP, he needs to calculate:</p>
<p>  EP&#8217; = TP-TA = Tp+Ep+EP &#8211; TA</p>
<p>The built-in assumption is that Tp and Ta (the true ambient) should be the same but this is likely true.</p>
<p>See the problem? There are two unknowns (Ep and EP) in that step so unless he has  really knows the sensor  characteristics at the parking lot he&#8217;s mostly wasting his time. What he&#8217;s finding is (Ep+EP), which is what he set out to do.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill P</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/26/the-parking-lot-effect-measurement-bias-in-locations/#comment-15823</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill P]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 15:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1258#comment-15823</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David,

Your guest entry is interesting and your work inspirational as always.  If I may ask a question on method:  How did you isolate sensor B temperature data for periods of exclusively north-blowing winds or south-blowing winds?

Thanks,
Bill P]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>Your guest entry is interesting and your work inspirational as always.  If I may ask a question on method:  How did you isolate sensor B temperature data for periods of exclusively north-blowing winds or south-blowing winds?</p>
<p>Thanks,<br />
Bill P</p>
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		<title>By: M. Simon</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/26/the-parking-lot-effect-measurement-bias-in-locations/#comment-15816</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[M. Simon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 15:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1258#comment-15816</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Q&amp;D calibration procedure.

1. buy a Styrofoam cooler.
2. Mount a low wattage incandescent light bulb in it.
3. Mount a small fan next to the light bulb.
4. Control the lamp wattage with a light dimmer

Take measurements over a range of temperatures.

This will let you know if the thermometers have different non-linearity characteristics.  If you have a calibrated thermometer you can measure the actual non-linearity.

One thing to watch for. Electrical noise. Dimmers are notorious. A filter can help. Possibly a bit of tin foil around the USB connector (not touching the pins) can help.

More sophisticated tests can be done with a similar set up: DC supples, temperature controller, etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Q&amp;D calibration procedure.</p>
<p>1. buy a Styrofoam cooler.<br />
2. Mount a low wattage incandescent light bulb in it.<br />
3. Mount a small fan next to the light bulb.<br />
4. Control the lamp wattage with a light dimmer</p>
<p>Take measurements over a range of temperatures.</p>
<p>This will let you know if the thermometers have different non-linearity characteristics.  If you have a calibrated thermometer you can measure the actual non-linearity.</p>
<p>One thing to watch for. Electrical noise. Dimmers are notorious. A filter can help. Possibly a bit of tin foil around the USB connector (not touching the pins) can help.</p>
<p>More sophisticated tests can be done with a similar set up: DC supples, temperature controller, etc.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: jep, Kansas USA</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/26/the-parking-lot-effect-measurement-bias-in-locations/#comment-15806</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jep, Kansas USA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 14:36:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1258#comment-15806</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When I lived in southern Nevada, I noticed most people drove light colored, &quot;desert friendly&quot; vehicles. It doesn&#039;t take much to also notice that people with lighter colored roofing had slightly cooler homes. 

If everybody just covered their homes with aluminum foil in the summer (shiny side up, please), how much cooling would we notice? :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I lived in southern Nevada, I noticed most people drove light colored, &#8220;desert friendly&#8221; vehicles. It doesn&#8217;t take much to also notice that people with lighter colored roofing had slightly cooler homes. </p>
<p>If everybody just covered their homes with aluminum foil in the summer (shiny side up, please), how much cooling would we notice? :-)</p>
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		<title>By: eo</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/26/the-parking-lot-effect-measurement-bias-in-locations/#comment-15762</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[eo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 04:00:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1258#comment-15762</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Any idea how the difference will be magnified or affected when the raw data is subjected to the various smoothing techniques and/or techniques to account for changes in sampling locations?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any idea how the difference will be magnified or affected when the raw data is subjected to the various smoothing techniques and/or techniques to account for changes in sampling locations?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/26/the-parking-lot-effect-measurement-bias-in-locations/#comment-15755</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 03:06:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1258#comment-15755</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting results... I&#039;d like to see somebody set up about 10 or so of these temperature monitors (all calibrated of course) all around this field (or somewhere else with different landscaping), monitor the temperature and report the results. I&#039;d really like to see it without wind too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting results&#8230; I&#8217;d like to see somebody set up about 10 or so of these temperature monitors (all calibrated of course) all around this field (or somewhere else with different landscaping), monitor the temperature and report the results. I&#8217;d really like to see it without wind too.</p>
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		<title>By: Evan Jones</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/26/the-parking-lot-effect-measurement-bias-in-locations/#comment-15754</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Evan Jones]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 02:34:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1258#comment-15754</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d say David Smith has it right. His experiment roughly confirms Yilmaz et al (2008) which finds a great deal of difference in temp offset measured over grass Vs dirt Vs concrete/asphalt.

BTW, David, is how high is the sensor attached to the fence from the ground? Is it the regulation 1.5m? Are both A and B at the same height?

-------------------------------------------------------------

To further the basic premise (and like so totally vindicate the Rev):

Yilmaz proves the offset bias. Kit proves the &lt;b&gt;trend&lt;/b&gt; bias:

&lt;cite&gt;Ross R. McKitrick, Patrick J. Michaels , JOURNAL OF GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH-ATMOSPHERES, DECEMBER 2007, Quantifying the influence of anthropogenic surface processes and inhomogeneities on gridded global climate data

Abstract:

Local land surface modification and variations in data quality affect temperature trends in surface-measured data. Such effects are considered extraneous for the purpose of measuring climate change, and providers of climate data must develop adjustments to filter them out. If done correctly, temperature trends in climate data should be uncorrelated with socioeconomic variables that determine these extraneous factors. This hypothesis can be tested, which is the main aim of this paper. Using a new database for all available land-based grid cells around the world we test the null hypothesis that the spatial pattern of temperature trends in a widely used gridded climate data set is independent of socioeconomic determinants of surface processes and data inhomogeneities. The hypothesis is strongly rejected (P = 7.1 × 10−14), indicating that extraneous (nonclimatic) signals contaminate gridded climate data. The patterns of contamination are detectable in both rich and poor countries and are relatively stronger in countries where real income is growing. We apply a battery of model specification tests to rule out spurious correlations and endogeneity bias.&lt;/cite&gt; &lt;b&gt; We conclude that the data contamination likely leads to an overstatement of actual trends over land. Using the regression model to filter the extraneous, nonclimatic effects reduces the estimated 1980–2002 global average temperature trend over land by about half.&lt;/b&gt;

By half! 

Just like I said back a-when! When Joe D&#039;Aleo made that PDO/AMO correlation, and I commented that cutting the 1980-present increase by half (in honor of the Rev&#039;s siting issues) would make the D&#039;Aleo curve fit so much better! I just KNEW it had to be about half. It fit the picture too perfectly not to be. (They beat me up pretty good on Tamino for venturing that opinion.) 
Now it&#039;s Kit to the rescue! (Can I call &#039;em or what?)

-------------------------------------------------------------

Great experiment. 

Keep up the good work, David.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d say David Smith has it right. His experiment roughly confirms Yilmaz et al (2008) which finds a great deal of difference in temp offset measured over grass Vs dirt Vs concrete/asphalt.</p>
<p>BTW, David, is how high is the sensor attached to the fence from the ground? Is it the regulation 1.5m? Are both A and B at the same height?</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
<p>To further the basic premise (and like so totally vindicate the Rev):</p>
<p>Yilmaz proves the offset bias. Kit proves the <b>trend</b> bias:</p>
<p><cite>Ross R. McKitrick, Patrick J. Michaels , JOURNAL OF GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH-ATMOSPHERES, DECEMBER 2007, Quantifying the influence of anthropogenic surface processes and inhomogeneities on gridded global climate data</p>
<p>Abstract:</p>
<p>Local land surface modification and variations in data quality affect temperature trends in surface-measured data. Such effects are considered extraneous for the purpose of measuring climate change, and providers of climate data must develop adjustments to filter them out. If done correctly, temperature trends in climate data should be uncorrelated with socioeconomic variables that determine these extraneous factors. This hypothesis can be tested, which is the main aim of this paper. Using a new database for all available land-based grid cells around the world we test the null hypothesis that the spatial pattern of temperature trends in a widely used gridded climate data set is independent of socioeconomic determinants of surface processes and data inhomogeneities. The hypothesis is strongly rejected (P = 7.1 × 10−14), indicating that extraneous (nonclimatic) signals contaminate gridded climate data. The patterns of contamination are detectable in both rich and poor countries and are relatively stronger in countries where real income is growing. We apply a battery of model specification tests to rule out spurious correlations and endogeneity bias.</cite> <b> We conclude that the data contamination likely leads to an overstatement of actual trends over land. Using the regression model to filter the extraneous, nonclimatic effects reduces the estimated 1980–2002 global average temperature trend over land by about half.</b></p>
<p>By half! </p>
<p>Just like I said back a-when! When Joe D&#8217;Aleo made that PDO/AMO correlation, and I commented that cutting the 1980-present increase by half (in honor of the Rev&#8217;s siting issues) would make the D&#8217;Aleo curve fit so much better! I just KNEW it had to be about half. It fit the picture too perfectly not to be. (They beat me up pretty good on Tamino for venturing that opinion.)<br />
Now it&#8217;s Kit to the rescue! (Can I call &#8216;em or what?)</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
<p>Great experiment. </p>
<p>Keep up the good work, David.</p>
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