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	<title>Comments on: Biofuels, BBQ&#8217;s, and Texas</title>
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	<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/25/biofuels-bbq-texas/</link>
	<description>The world&#039;s most viewed site on global warming and climate change</description>
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		<title>By: Bruce Cobb</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/25/biofuels-bbq-texas/#comment-15990</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bruce Cobb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 16:42:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1257#comment-15990</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;The energy decisions our nation makes today will have huge implications into the next century.&lt;/i&gt;
Agreed.  But, those energy decisions must, I repeat MUST be rationally-based, not on the irrational, hysterical fear of the benign, and even beneficial gas, C02.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The energy decisions our nation makes today will have huge implications into the next century.</i><br />
Agreed.  But, those energy decisions must, I repeat MUST be rationally-based, not on the irrational, hysterical fear of the benign, and even beneficial gas, C02.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Draiman, energy consultant</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/25/biofuels-bbq-texas/#comment-15925</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jay Draiman, energy consultant]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 07:21:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1257#comment-15925</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A more efficient and cost effective renewable energy system is needed.
A more efficient and cost effective renewable energy system is needed. 
To accelerate the implementation of renewable electric generation with added incentives and a FASTER PAYBACK - ROI. (A method of storing energy, would accelerate the use of renewable energy) A greater tax credit, accelerated depreciation, funding scientific research and pay as you save utility billing. (Reduce and or eliminates the tax on implementing energy efficiency, eliminate increase in Real estate Taxes for energy efficiency improvement). 
In California, you also have the impediment, that when there are an interruption of power supply by the Utility you the consumer cannot use your renewable energy system to provide power. 
In today&#039;s technology there is automatic switching equipment that would disconnect the consumer from the grid, which would permit renewable generation for the consumer even during power interruption. 
New competition for the world&#039;s limited oil and natural gas supplies is increasing global demand like never before. Reserves are dwindling. These and other factors are forcing energy prices to skyrocket here at home. It&#039;s affecting not just the fuel for our cars and homes, but it&#039;s driving up electricity costs, too. A new world is emerging. The energy decisions our nation makes today will have huge implications into the next century. 
A synchronous system with batteries allows the blending of a PV with grid power, but also offers the advantage of “islanding” in case of a power failure. A synchronous system automatically disconnects the utility power from the house and operates like an off-grid home during power failures. This system, however, is more costly and loses some of the efficiency advantages of a battery-less system.
Jay Draiman, Northridge, CA
May 29, 2008]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A more efficient and cost effective renewable energy system is needed.<br />
A more efficient and cost effective renewable energy system is needed.<br />
To accelerate the implementation of renewable electric generation with added incentives and a FASTER PAYBACK &#8211; ROI. (A method of storing energy, would accelerate the use of renewable energy) A greater tax credit, accelerated depreciation, funding scientific research and pay as you save utility billing. (Reduce and or eliminates the tax on implementing energy efficiency, eliminate increase in Real estate Taxes for energy efficiency improvement).<br />
In California, you also have the impediment, that when there are an interruption of power supply by the Utility you the consumer cannot use your renewable energy system to provide power.<br />
In today&#8217;s technology there is automatic switching equipment that would disconnect the consumer from the grid, which would permit renewable generation for the consumer even during power interruption.<br />
New competition for the world&#8217;s limited oil and natural gas supplies is increasing global demand like never before. Reserves are dwindling. These and other factors are forcing energy prices to skyrocket here at home. It&#8217;s affecting not just the fuel for our cars and homes, but it&#8217;s driving up electricity costs, too. A new world is emerging. The energy decisions our nation makes today will have huge implications into the next century.<br />
A synchronous system with batteries allows the blending of a PV with grid power, but also offers the advantage of “islanding” in case of a power failure. A synchronous system automatically disconnects the utility power from the house and operates like an off-grid home during power failures. This system, however, is more costly and loses some of the efficiency advantages of a battery-less system.<br />
Jay Draiman, Northridge, CA<br />
May 29, 2008</p>
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		<title>By: Evan Jones</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/25/biofuels-bbq-texas/#comment-15808</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Evan Jones]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 14:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1257#comment-15808</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[JD: Your concerns seem genuine, but as I see it, they are misplaced.

Where to begin?

&lt;cite&gt;When a country and its society import more than they export for over a quarter of a century, it is bound to erod the economy to its primate state.&lt;/cite&gt;

No. First, we have imported more than exported for a heck of a lot longer than a quarter century. During that period, the US went from a superindustrial to postindustrial economy and saw the greatest growth in our history. 

If the trade deficit disappeared tomorrow, our economy would totally go down the tubes.

Besides, cheap imports from China have done the poor more good than all the welfare programs put together. And are a natural wedge against inflation. In 1970 you had to pay $40 for a pair of shoes (a BIG expense in 1970, not only because of inflation, but because of MUCH less wealth banging around).

Now you can get acceptable shoes for $15 dollars. Excellent shoes cost $100 (i.e., MUCH less than $40 a la 1970).

&lt;cite&gt;American debts are increasing beyond our wildest dreams, endangering the future economic vitality of our future generation.&lt;/cite&gt;

No. Plain old no. Total debt is around nine month&#039;s worth of GDP. The deficit, even with the war, is minuscule in percentage terms. You have to consider national economy in percentage terms, not in absolute amounts, just as you do in normal day-to-day living.

&lt;cite&gt;Most of the goods for and by Americans and its companies are produced overseas and in the past decade with the advancement of telecommunications, many of the services sector are also imported.&lt;/cite&gt;

Our economy is no longer based on mindlessly banging things together and reading off of cue cards. That is a GOOD thing.

&lt;cite&gt;Americans are a nation of great technology and knowhow. We must utilize that technology and our resources to find new means to regain our economic independence.&lt;/cite&gt;

technology and knowhow ARE our economic independence. Rejoice that what you want to &quot;regain&quot; will plague us no longer!

&lt;cite&gt;Inflation, recession and financial crises are here.&lt;/cite&gt;

Are here, were here, always will be here. The climate is not the only thing that works in cycles. And it&#039;s the free market that has pulled our nuts out of the fire every time. Let us not &quot;take the bull by the horn&quot;. It solves nothing and annoys the bull. And brings on the bears.

Fortunately we are in an extended period of &quot;Economic Warming&quot; and the &quot;positive feedbacks&quot; are very real! (Unless we put our wellmeaning governmental foot in it and screw it all up.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JD: Your concerns seem genuine, but as I see it, they are misplaced.</p>
<p>Where to begin?</p>
<p><cite>When a country and its society import more than they export for over a quarter of a century, it is bound to erod the economy to its primate state.</cite></p>
<p>No. First, we have imported more than exported for a heck of a lot longer than a quarter century. During that period, the US went from a superindustrial to postindustrial economy and saw the greatest growth in our history. </p>
<p>If the trade deficit disappeared tomorrow, our economy would totally go down the tubes.</p>
<p>Besides, cheap imports from China have done the poor more good than all the welfare programs put together. And are a natural wedge against inflation. In 1970 you had to pay $40 for a pair of shoes (a BIG expense in 1970, not only because of inflation, but because of MUCH less wealth banging around).</p>
<p>Now you can get acceptable shoes for $15 dollars. Excellent shoes cost $100 (i.e., MUCH less than $40 a la 1970).</p>
<p><cite>American debts are increasing beyond our wildest dreams, endangering the future economic vitality of our future generation.</cite></p>
<p>No. Plain old no. Total debt is around nine month&#8217;s worth of GDP. The deficit, even with the war, is minuscule in percentage terms. You have to consider national economy in percentage terms, not in absolute amounts, just as you do in normal day-to-day living.</p>
<p><cite>Most of the goods for and by Americans and its companies are produced overseas and in the past decade with the advancement of telecommunications, many of the services sector are also imported.</cite></p>
<p>Our economy is no longer based on mindlessly banging things together and reading off of cue cards. That is a GOOD thing.</p>
<p><cite>Americans are a nation of great technology and knowhow. We must utilize that technology and our resources to find new means to regain our economic independence.</cite></p>
<p>technology and knowhow ARE our economic independence. Rejoice that what you want to &#8220;regain&#8221; will plague us no longer!</p>
<p><cite>Inflation, recession and financial crises are here.</cite></p>
<p>Are here, were here, always will be here. The climate is not the only thing that works in cycles. And it&#8217;s the free market that has pulled our nuts out of the fire every time. Let us not &#8220;take the bull by the horn&#8221;. It solves nothing and annoys the bull. And brings on the bears.</p>
<p>Fortunately we are in an extended period of &#8220;Economic Warming&#8221; and the &#8220;positive feedbacks&#8221; are very real! (Unless we put our wellmeaning governmental foot in it and screw it all up.)</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Cobb</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/25/biofuels-bbq-texas/#comment-15791</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bruce Cobb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 12:25:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1257#comment-15791</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;American economy in crises - a long time coming&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;i&gt;The increased costs of energy over the past 10 years, has affected the economy to unimaginable comprehension.&lt;/i&gt;
Yes, and, Congress is getting set to add to those costs with the upcoming &quot;Climate Security Act&quot;.  They have already paved the way with declaring polar bears &quot;threatened&quot;.  We are our own worst enemy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>American economy in crises &#8211; a long time coming</i></p>
<p><i>The increased costs of energy over the past 10 years, has affected the economy to unimaginable comprehension.</i><br />
Yes, and, Congress is getting set to add to those costs with the upcoming &#8220;Climate Security Act&#8221;.  They have already paved the way with declaring polar bears &#8220;threatened&#8221;.  We are our own worst enemy.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Draiman</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/25/biofuels-bbq-texas/#comment-15763</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jay Draiman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 04:47:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1257#comment-15763</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[American economy in crises - a long time coming

When a country and its society import more than they export for over a quarter of a century, it is bound to erod the economy to its primate state.

We have only ourselves to blame, what goods and products are we exporting, what goods and services are produced in the USA, the answer is very little by comparison.

In the past 50 years as our population has increased, technology advanced, we have become a nation that consumes enormous amounts of resources, we shop for competitive prices. Corporate America is constantly looking to increase the bottom line.

Most of the goods for and by Americans and its companies are produced overseas and in the past decade with the advancement of telecommunications, many of the services sector are also imported.

The increased costs of energy over the past 10 years, has affected the economy to unimaginable comprehension.

This economic activity has eroded our economy to its core. It seems that the situation is getting worse every year. American debts are increasing beyond our wildest dreams, endangering the future economic vitality of our future generation.

I hope it is not too late for our society to recognize the graveness of our economic predicament and its resolve to take appropriate action to stem the tide of our economic downturn.

Americans are a nation of great technology and knowhow. We must utilize that technology and our resources to find new means to regain our economic independence.

We must face and implement fiscal responsibility, both by the government and the population with its infrastructure of corporate America.

It is no longer an option, it is a must if we as a nation want to survive and retain our way of life and economic vitality.

Inflation, recession and financial crises are here. Let us take the bull by the horn, initiate immediate actions to minimize and hopefully reverse our economic crises.

Jay Draiman, Northridge, CA.

PS
The US economy has enormous momentum. Metaphorically speaking, if someone turned off the locomotive that drives the US economy, the economy would go on for miles before anyone would likely notice something was wrong. But something has been wrong for many years. Is there really hope for the future? Maybe. But the terrible truth is that no one really knows. But if there is hope, we&#039;re already on the wrong track. And that has to change..]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>American economy in crises &#8211; a long time coming</p>
<p>When a country and its society import more than they export for over a quarter of a century, it is bound to erod the economy to its primate state.</p>
<p>We have only ourselves to blame, what goods and products are we exporting, what goods and services are produced in the USA, the answer is very little by comparison.</p>
<p>In the past 50 years as our population has increased, technology advanced, we have become a nation that consumes enormous amounts of resources, we shop for competitive prices. Corporate America is constantly looking to increase the bottom line.</p>
<p>Most of the goods for and by Americans and its companies are produced overseas and in the past decade with the advancement of telecommunications, many of the services sector are also imported.</p>
<p>The increased costs of energy over the past 10 years, has affected the economy to unimaginable comprehension.</p>
<p>This economic activity has eroded our economy to its core. It seems that the situation is getting worse every year. American debts are increasing beyond our wildest dreams, endangering the future economic vitality of our future generation.</p>
<p>I hope it is not too late for our society to recognize the graveness of our economic predicament and its resolve to take appropriate action to stem the tide of our economic downturn.</p>
<p>Americans are a nation of great technology and knowhow. We must utilize that technology and our resources to find new means to regain our economic independence.</p>
<p>We must face and implement fiscal responsibility, both by the government and the population with its infrastructure of corporate America.</p>
<p>It is no longer an option, it is a must if we as a nation want to survive and retain our way of life and economic vitality.</p>
<p>Inflation, recession and financial crises are here. Let us take the bull by the horn, initiate immediate actions to minimize and hopefully reverse our economic crises.</p>
<p>Jay Draiman, Northridge, CA.</p>
<p>PS<br />
The US economy has enormous momentum. Metaphorically speaking, if someone turned off the locomotive that drives the US economy, the economy would go on for miles before anyone would likely notice something was wrong. But something has been wrong for many years. Is there really hope for the future? Maybe. But the terrible truth is that no one really knows. But if there is hope, we&#8217;re already on the wrong track. And that has to change..</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Gulrud</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/25/biofuels-bbq-texas/#comment-15721</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gary Gulrud]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 19:09:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1257#comment-15721</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Personal responsibility:

1. Use public transportation

    In my neck of the woods, public transportation is centralized, where urban sprawl renders it useful only for the rich or very poor.  

2. Burn carbohydrates instead of hydrocarbons–walk, bike

   One is responsible for producing less CO2 by driving to shop for the meat one eats to walk or bike or skate, than to do so for that purpose.

3. Don’t drive above 60 mphs.

   Although it will change, my commute is about 160 miles per day,  I normally drive with traffic to be safe, not to save 15 minutes or 5 bucks. 

4. Empty the trunk of your cars from “storage” loads (no golf clubs stored there–very fuel expensive); keep proper air pressure on your tires, use less electricity–yep, turns the lights off and follow other common sense measures; no one needs to freeze in the summer.

   I live out of my car; are you kidding?

5. Organize car-pool networks

   Ah, you are kidding.  

6. Write cohesive letters to your congressmen and senators. Team up with those who can provide technical information and economic impact data on your communities and their “voting pool”. Ensure those letters are read. Yada-Yada-Yada notes or acclamations in public fora are routinely dismissed.

   I don&#039;t write often for fear of arrest by the FBI and/or Secret Service.  I have issues. 

7. Form or join politically active groups established to gain back control over our political lives. May I suggest a key point in the agenda: improve smart public transportation in your communities.

   I don&#039;t like people, they don&#039;t like me, peace.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personal responsibility:</p>
<p>1. Use public transportation</p>
<p>    In my neck of the woods, public transportation is centralized, where urban sprawl renders it useful only for the rich or very poor.  </p>
<p>2. Burn carbohydrates instead of hydrocarbons–walk, bike</p>
<p>   One is responsible for producing less CO2 by driving to shop for the meat one eats to walk or bike or skate, than to do so for that purpose.</p>
<p>3. Don’t drive above 60 mphs.</p>
<p>   Although it will change, my commute is about 160 miles per day,  I normally drive with traffic to be safe, not to save 15 minutes or 5 bucks. </p>
<p>4. Empty the trunk of your cars from “storage” loads (no golf clubs stored there–very fuel expensive); keep proper air pressure on your tires, use less electricity–yep, turns the lights off and follow other common sense measures; no one needs to freeze in the summer.</p>
<p>   I live out of my car; are you kidding?</p>
<p>5. Organize car-pool networks</p>
<p>   Ah, you are kidding.  </p>
<p>6. Write cohesive letters to your congressmen and senators. Team up with those who can provide technical information and economic impact data on your communities and their “voting pool”. Ensure those letters are read. Yada-Yada-Yada notes or acclamations in public fora are routinely dismissed.</p>
<p>   I don&#8217;t write often for fear of arrest by the FBI and/or Secret Service.  I have issues. </p>
<p>7. Form or join politically active groups established to gain back control over our political lives. May I suggest a key point in the agenda: improve smart public transportation in your communities.</p>
<p>   I don&#8217;t like people, they don&#8217;t like me, peace.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Gulrud</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/25/biofuels-bbq-texas/#comment-15714</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gary Gulrud]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 17:56:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1257#comment-15714</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[RE:  Reduced price of gas with Ethanol (kum not kim).

Passed a station on my way down to the cities this weekend,  Unleaded $3.85,  E-85 $3.05.   At 70% the mileage (a generous, governmentally estimate) E-85 should have been at $2.70 for parity.

This, by the way, is E-85 country, having been available for about 5 years.

How come the disparity, kum?

Oh, and the corn crop was three weeks late getting in the ground, and we had a freeze in the northern half of the state last night.  Watch those futures sky.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE:  Reduced price of gas with Ethanol (kum not kim).</p>
<p>Passed a station on my way down to the cities this weekend,  Unleaded $3.85,  E-85 $3.05.   At 70% the mileage (a generous, governmentally estimate) E-85 should have been at $2.70 for parity.</p>
<p>This, by the way, is E-85 country, having been available for about 5 years.</p>
<p>How come the disparity, kum?</p>
<p>Oh, and the corn crop was three weeks late getting in the ground, and we had a freeze in the northern half of the state last night.  Watch those futures sky.</p>
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		<title>By: Evan Jones</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/25/biofuels-bbq-texas/#comment-15681</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Evan Jones]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 06:31:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1257#comment-15681</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;cite&gt;My guess is that cutting back on plastic packaging nobody really wants anyway would pay for the ethanol experiment &lt;/cite&gt;

I think they use byproduct for that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><cite>My guess is that cutting back on plastic packaging nobody really wants anyway would pay for the ethanol experiment </cite></p>
<p>I think they use byproduct for that.</p>
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		<title>By: G Alston</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/25/biofuels-bbq-texas/#comment-15679</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[G Alston]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 05:47:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1257#comment-15679</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re water to create ethanol, I&#039;d like to see the numbers on this. Where I live corn is planted and grows sans irrigation (it rains in the summer here) so any water used in the process must be at the ethanol plant itself. Are these much touted numbers estimates and averages of growing corn in arid regions? They certainly don&#039;t apply here.

I&#039;m not sure why the advice re gasoline price needs to result in me driving slower or taking some other measure to conserve. Over 60% of the oil used is NOT used for fuels of any sort, but products. Seems to me that reducing the use of plastics in packaging would be a start -- I neither need nor want to toss 1/2 lb of plastic blister pack that I can barely open to purchase 2 AA batteries; chinese restaurants seem to be able to make take-home using paper products and not styrofoam; landfills are awash in el cheapo plastic toys that lasted 2 days before they broke. I wonder how much oil is needed to create containers for the pure water environmentalist types prefer... and I&#039;m supposed to drive slower?

Nuts.

Re biofuel debate, I&#039;d like to see a serious look at where every gallon of crude oil goes before I worry about doing 60 on the interstate. My guess is that cutting back on plastic packaging nobody really wants anyway would pay for the ethanol experiment until such time as the technology matures (i.e. isn&#039;t using corn.) Overall I think biofuels are a good idea -- oil is too valuable to simply burn (or waste on blister packs for batteries.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re water to create ethanol, I&#8217;d like to see the numbers on this. Where I live corn is planted and grows sans irrigation (it rains in the summer here) so any water used in the process must be at the ethanol plant itself. Are these much touted numbers estimates and averages of growing corn in arid regions? They certainly don&#8217;t apply here.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure why the advice re gasoline price needs to result in me driving slower or taking some other measure to conserve. Over 60% of the oil used is NOT used for fuels of any sort, but products. Seems to me that reducing the use of plastics in packaging would be a start &#8212; I neither need nor want to toss 1/2 lb of plastic blister pack that I can barely open to purchase 2 AA batteries; chinese restaurants seem to be able to make take-home using paper products and not styrofoam; landfills are awash in el cheapo plastic toys that lasted 2 days before they broke. I wonder how much oil is needed to create containers for the pure water environmentalist types prefer&#8230; and I&#8217;m supposed to drive slower?</p>
<p>Nuts.</p>
<p>Re biofuel debate, I&#8217;d like to see a serious look at where every gallon of crude oil goes before I worry about doing 60 on the interstate. My guess is that cutting back on plastic packaging nobody really wants anyway would pay for the ethanol experiment until such time as the technology matures (i.e. isn&#8217;t using corn.) Overall I think biofuels are a good idea &#8212; oil is too valuable to simply burn (or waste on blister packs for batteries.)</p>
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		<title>By: KuhnKat</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/25/biofuels-bbq-texas/#comment-15678</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[KuhnKat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 05:20:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1257#comment-15678</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pamela Gray,

here is how to get light sweet from rock:

http://money.cnn.com/2007/10/30/magazines/fortune/Oil_from_stone.fortune/index.htm

The real issue is whether the Enviro Catastrophists will allow us to burn ANYTHING that produces Plant Food at a reasonable price!!!! I can see the same issue with the gentlemen who have introduced new methods of producing fuel from algae.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pamela Gray,</p>
<p>here is how to get light sweet from rock:</p>
<p><a href="http://money.cnn.com/2007/10/30/magazines/fortune/Oil_from_stone.fortune/index.htm" rel="nofollow">http://money.cnn.com/2007/10/30/magazines/fortune/Oil_from_stone.fortune/index.htm</a></p>
<p>The real issue is whether the Enviro Catastrophists will allow us to burn ANYTHING that produces Plant Food at a reasonable price!!!! I can see the same issue with the gentlemen who have introduced new methods of producing fuel from algae.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Rico</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/25/biofuels-bbq-texas/#comment-15664</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rico]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 22:19:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1257#comment-15664</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Evan Jones: (16:26:18) : &lt;i&gt;It’s the third and fourth world countries that are seeing doubling or tripling of food prices. Those dollar-or-two-a-day places (i.e., a third of humanity) are going starving.&lt;/i&gt;

That may be the case. Still the same, I think it would be a mistake to blame it all on biofuels. I think it&#039;s pretty obvious that there are other issues involved. Failures in complex systems in all sorts of contexts usually have many causes, and I would argue that the global food distribution system is no different in that regard. That said though, I think it&#039;s obvious that adding biofuels to an already stressed system doesn&#039;t help. So it seems to me that there should be a really good explanation to warrant it. And so far as I can tell, all of the explanations I&#039;ve heard so far basically fall into one (or both) of two categories: (1) wishful thinking, or; (2) greed. But I accept the possibility that I may be wrong. I am, after all, just an interested amateur trying hard to make sense of it all. In that light, IMO, the best argued position in favor of biofuels is that offered by Vinod Khosla. Whether you agree with the guy or not you have to appreciate how willing he is to (1) &lt;a href=&quot;http://gristmill.grist.org/user/Vinod%20Khosla&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;explain his point of view&lt;/a&gt;, even to serious and high profile skeptics, and (2) &lt;a href=&quot;http://earth2tech.com/2007/10/12/10-khosla-biofuel-bets/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;put his money where his mouth is&lt;/a&gt;. If it were not for people like Khosla, I&#039;d have turned the corner on crop-based biofuels long ago.  

That being said there is, of course, other solutions (though not necessarily &quot;orthogonal&quot;, or &quot;either/or&quot; ones) to the whole transportation energy problem besides biofuels. And the one that is becoming increasingly obvious is &quot;electrons&quot; -- batteries. As luck would have it, there are some interesting tie-ins there to Austin and the surrounding area, too. One of the companies that has made quite a buzz lately is EEStor of Cedar Park, TX (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EEstor). Supposedly they&#039;re working on an ultracapacitor with some incredible characteristics. But they&#039;re still working in stealth mode. So although their partners (Zenn Motors and Lockheed Martin) remain optimistic it&#039;s hard to say what will happen. Their first commercial production plant is scheduled to be completed by the end of the year, so I guess we&#039;ll see. By the way, much of their equity appears to come from Kleiner Perkins Caufield &amp; Byers (aka &quot;KB&quot;), of which Al Gore is now a partner. Al Gore not withstanding, I really hope they&#039;re for real. If they are, their product could be a real game-changer. If it does, it could make Al Gore a very, very rich man. But I don&#039;t care about that. Whatever works. 

Along the same lines is AFS Trinity (www.afstrinity.com). They recently came out of stealth mode and are now on a cross-country tour to show off their prototype car: a converted Saturn Vue small SUV that they claim puts out up to 370HP and get up to 150 mpg. They do it more with thought innovation rather than technical innovation: they used off-the-shelf components to put an ultracapacitor front end on an otherwise run-of-the-mill gasoline/plug-in electric hybrid. Check out their video page (btw, some of the videos were shot in -- you guessed it -- Austin). What&#039;s interesting about these guys is that their product is available now. All they need are distributors (they hope to attract the interest of the major automakers). 

In addition to that, Nissan, Toyota, and Honda have all recently announced plans to invest big bucks in &quot;next generation&quot; battery production (where are the US companies?). They just didn&#039;t do it in Austin, lol! Anyway, electric vehicles and hybrids are definitely on their way to a showroom near you. Heck, even big rig manufacturers are developing hybrids. That doesn&#039;t obviate biofuels, but it does help to mitigate their impact on an over-all solution. After all, if batteries eliminate a substantial portion of the need for on-board liquid fuels in the near term, sustainable replacements for on-board fossil fuels can be pushed back further into the long term. And that would be a good thing, too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evan Jones: (16:26:18) : <i>It’s the third and fourth world countries that are seeing doubling or tripling of food prices. Those dollar-or-two-a-day places (i.e., a third of humanity) are going starving.</i></p>
<p>That may be the case. Still the same, I think it would be a mistake to blame it all on biofuels. I think it&#8217;s pretty obvious that there are other issues involved. Failures in complex systems in all sorts of contexts usually have many causes, and I would argue that the global food distribution system is no different in that regard. That said though, I think it&#8217;s obvious that adding biofuels to an already stressed system doesn&#8217;t help. So it seems to me that there should be a really good explanation to warrant it. And so far as I can tell, all of the explanations I&#8217;ve heard so far basically fall into one (or both) of two categories: (1) wishful thinking, or; (2) greed. But I accept the possibility that I may be wrong. I am, after all, just an interested amateur trying hard to make sense of it all. In that light, IMO, the best argued position in favor of biofuels is that offered by Vinod Khosla. Whether you agree with the guy or not you have to appreciate how willing he is to (1) <a href="http://gristmill.grist.org/user/Vinod%20Khosla" rel="nofollow">explain his point of view</a>, even to serious and high profile skeptics, and (2) <a href="http://earth2tech.com/2007/10/12/10-khosla-biofuel-bets/" rel="nofollow">put his money where his mouth is</a>. If it were not for people like Khosla, I&#8217;d have turned the corner on crop-based biofuels long ago.  </p>
<p>That being said there is, of course, other solutions (though not necessarily &#8220;orthogonal&#8221;, or &#8220;either/or&#8221; ones) to the whole transportation energy problem besides biofuels. And the one that is becoming increasingly obvious is &#8220;electrons&#8221; &#8212; batteries. As luck would have it, there are some interesting tie-ins there to Austin and the surrounding area, too. One of the companies that has made quite a buzz lately is EEStor of Cedar Park, TX (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EEstor). Supposedly they&#8217;re working on an ultracapacitor with some incredible characteristics. But they&#8217;re still working in stealth mode. So although their partners (Zenn Motors and Lockheed Martin) remain optimistic it&#8217;s hard to say what will happen. Their first commercial production plant is scheduled to be completed by the end of the year, so I guess we&#8217;ll see. By the way, much of their equity appears to come from Kleiner Perkins Caufield &amp; Byers (aka &#8220;KB&#8221;), of which Al Gore is now a partner. Al Gore not withstanding, I really hope they&#8217;re for real. If they are, their product could be a real game-changer. If it does, it could make Al Gore a very, very rich man. But I don&#8217;t care about that. Whatever works. </p>
<p>Along the same lines is AFS Trinity (www.afstrinity.com). They recently came out of stealth mode and are now on a cross-country tour to show off their prototype car: a converted Saturn Vue small SUV that they claim puts out up to 370HP and get up to 150 mpg. They do it more with thought innovation rather than technical innovation: they used off-the-shelf components to put an ultracapacitor front end on an otherwise run-of-the-mill gasoline/plug-in electric hybrid. Check out their video page (btw, some of the videos were shot in &#8212; you guessed it &#8212; Austin). What&#8217;s interesting about these guys is that their product is available now. All they need are distributors (they hope to attract the interest of the major automakers). </p>
<p>In addition to that, Nissan, Toyota, and Honda have all recently announced plans to invest big bucks in &#8220;next generation&#8221; battery production (where are the US companies?). They just didn&#8217;t do it in Austin, lol! Anyway, electric vehicles and hybrids are definitely on their way to a showroom near you. Heck, even big rig manufacturers are developing hybrids. That doesn&#8217;t obviate biofuels, but it does help to mitigate their impact on an over-all solution. After all, if batteries eliminate a substantial portion of the need for on-board liquid fuels in the near term, sustainable replacements for on-board fossil fuels can be pushed back further into the long term. And that would be a good thing, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill McClure</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/25/biofuels-bbq-texas/#comment-15663</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill McClure]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 21:42:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1257#comment-15663</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve farmered for 35 years and yes if there is one true saying in agriculture it&#039;s the surest cure for high prices  high prices. So wait another few years and corn will be cheap again. 
 As far as the price of food there are several factors at play. The diversion of corn to ethaniol production. The late spring freeze in 2007 that reduced wheat yields across a wide part of the United States created a shortage of wheat. Lets not forget that hedge funds are adding to the price of food by speculation on the price of all commodities oil included.   
  I am so suprised that people have so quickly frogotted the value of ethanol  added to gasoline at the 5% level  to reduce air polution do we really want to go back to MTBE. 
  Over all give Amnerican farmers a few years and we can produce more corn,soybeans,and wheat than is needed]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve farmered for 35 years and yes if there is one true saying in agriculture it&#8217;s the surest cure for high prices  high prices. So wait another few years and corn will be cheap again.<br />
 As far as the price of food there are several factors at play. The diversion of corn to ethaniol production. The late spring freeze in 2007 that reduced wheat yields across a wide part of the United States created a shortage of wheat. Lets not forget that hedge funds are adding to the price of food by speculation on the price of all commodities oil included.<br />
  I am so suprised that people have so quickly frogotted the value of ethanol  added to gasoline at the 5% level  to reduce air polution do we really want to go back to MTBE.<br />
  Over all give Amnerican farmers a few years and we can produce more corn,soybeans,and wheat than is needed</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Cobb</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/25/biofuels-bbq-texas/#comment-15648</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bruce Cobb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 17:23:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1257#comment-15648</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Back when it was ESSO (now EXXON) their ad slogan was &quot;Put a tiger in your tank&quot;.  Now, with ethanol you can literally be putting Tony the Tiger (corn + sugar) in your tank.  Biofuels... they&#039;re Gr-r-r-r-eat!!!  
Just don&#039;t look at lowered gas mileage, increased food costs, environmental costs, etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back when it was ESSO (now EXXON) their ad slogan was &#8220;Put a tiger in your tank&#8221;.  Now, with ethanol you can literally be putting Tony the Tiger (corn + sugar) in your tank.  Biofuels&#8230; they&#8217;re Gr-r-r-r-eat!!!<br />
Just don&#8217;t look at lowered gas mileage, increased food costs, environmental costs, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Aileni Noyle</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/25/biofuels-bbq-texas/#comment-15647</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aileni Noyle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 17:06:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1257#comment-15647</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Feeding grain to cattle is a bad way to feed a world... feeding it to cars is worse.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Feeding grain to cattle is a bad way to feed a world&#8230; feeding it to cars is worse.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/25/biofuels-bbq-texas/#comment-15645</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 16:49:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1257#comment-15645</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Speaking of &quot;Don&#039;t Mess With Texas&quot;, a couple of years ago I was driving into to texas from New Mexico near El Paso.  There was a sign that said  &quot;Drive Friendly-the Texas Way&quot;
Not quite sure how to take that...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of &#8220;Don&#8217;t Mess With Texas&#8221;, a couple of years ago I was driving into to texas from New Mexico near El Paso.  There was a sign that said  &#8220;Drive Friendly-the Texas Way&#8221;<br />
Not quite sure how to take that&#8230;</p>
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