Comments on: How not to measure temperature, part 62 http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/19/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-62/ Commentary on puzzling things in life, nature, science, weather, climate change, technology, and recent news by Anthony Watts Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:48:30 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: jim http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/19/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-62/#comment-18450 jim Wed, 11 Jun 2008 22:17:23 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-18450 Its my opinion that all city monitors should be removed from the data because they are being warmed by the cities and do not reflect true temps. Only rual stations should be used to monitor the earths temp. Its my opinion that all city monitors should be removed from the data because they are being warmed by the cities and do not reflect true temps.
Only rual stations should be used to monitor the earths temp.

]]> By: Skating on thick ice « Trevor’s Den http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/19/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-62/#comment-15870 Skating on thick ice « Trevor’s Den Wed, 28 May 2008 20:57:52 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-15870 [...] reason why temperatures are rated as high as they are is also highlighted in this blog.  Putting a weather station in a Fire Station car park in the middle of a city is not [...] [...] reason why temperatures are rated as high as they are is also highlighted in this blog.  Putting a weather station in a Fire Station car park in the middle of a city is not [...]

]]> By: Evan Jones http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/19/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-62/#comment-15252 Evan Jones Wed, 21 May 2008 16:37:36 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-15252 NOAA Asheville, NC To whom it may concern: Attached is a link to photographs of the surface tempe5rture station at [fill in the blank]. Known CRN violations (according to the CRN handbook) are as follows: [fill in the blank(s)] Please inform me of the USHCN siting adjustments that are applied to this station to offset the above violation(s). (Siting adjustments only, please. If TOBS or homogenization, etc., is to be included, please list separately.) Stamped, self-addressed envelope enclosed. Thank you for your kind cooperation, [Signature] [Return Address] NOAA
Asheville, NC

To whom it may concern:

Attached is a link to photographs of the surface tempe5rture station at [fill in the blank].

Known CRN violations (according to the CRN handbook) are as follows:

[fill in the blank(s)]

Please inform me of the USHCN siting adjustments that are applied to this station to offset the above violation(s). (Siting adjustments only, please. If TOBS or homogenization, etc., is to be included, please list separately.)

Stamped, self-addressed envelope enclosed.

Thank you for your kind cooperation,

[Signature]
[Return Address]

]]> By: Skeptics Global Warming | Another Badly-Placed Temperature Station http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/19/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-62/#comment-15226 Skeptics Global Warming | Another Badly-Placed Temperature Station Wed, 21 May 2008 12:01:56 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-15226 [...] wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com… Share and Enjoy: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. [...] [...] wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com… Share and Enjoy: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. [...]

]]> By: Evan Jones http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/19/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-62/#comment-15216 Evan Jones Wed, 21 May 2008 03:30:13 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-15216 Wow! Number 6! I think we need to start pounding on the table and asking NOAA what corrections they are making for these violations. Wow! Number 6!

I think we need to start pounding on the table and asking NOAA what corrections they are making for these violations.

]]> By: Top Posts « WordPress.com http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/19/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-62/#comment-15205 Top Posts « WordPress.com Tue, 20 May 2008 23:59:03 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-15205 [...] How not to measure temperature, part 62 One of the key criteria for placement of weather stations in the COOP, and by extension, the subset USHCN network is [...] [...] [...] How not to measure temperature, part 62 One of the key criteria for placement of weather stations in the COOP, and by extension, the subset USHCN network is [...] [...]

]]> By: Jim Arndt http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/19/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-62/#comment-15199 Jim Arndt Tue, 20 May 2008 22:28:55 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-15199 Hi Anthony, A few questions. First what it the population of Monroe? When did the highway get built? When did the Riteaid get built? The fire station itself looks fairly modern and looks to have a steel roof.These may answer some of the anomalies in the record. <strong>REPLY:</strong> Jim the MMTS has only been there at the fire station since June 2003, and most of the issues are further back than that. I have no info on the prior location. Hi Anthony,

A few questions. First what it the population of Monroe? When did the highway get built? When did the Riteaid get built? The fire station itself looks fairly modern and looks to have a steel roof.These may answer some of the anomalies in the record.

REPLY: Jim the MMTS has only been there at the fire station since June 2003, and most of the issues are further back than that. I have no info on the prior location.

]]> By: Evan Jones http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/19/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-62/#comment-15183 Evan Jones Tue, 20 May 2008 19:55:24 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-15183 That's funny. The ground shot makes it seem like a sea of green, and the aerial shot is a teeny green triangle. That’s funny. The ground shot makes it seem like a sea of green, and the aerial shot is a teeny green triangle.

]]> By: sonicfrog http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/19/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-62/#comment-15151 sonicfrog Tue, 20 May 2008 14:01:12 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-15151 ... And just look at the color of the roof. I see they are taking the "Green Movement" seriously. … And just look at the color of the roof. I see they are taking the “Green Movement” seriously.

]]> By: MattN http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/19/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-62/#comment-15150 MattN Tue, 20 May 2008 13:44:26 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-15150 Dang Anthony, I tried to find a station near me to survey, but I thought all the ones in my area were already done. Marion is about an hour away. Where can I find which stations in my area (just west of Charlotte, NC) have not been done? <strong>REPLY:</strong> Just look at http://gallery.surfacestations.org/main.php and see if a station has been posted. I have most of NC done but a one remains that you could get. Reidville, NC at the experiment farm there. Dang Anthony, I tried to find a station near me to survey, but I thought all the ones in my area were already done. Marion is about an hour away.

Where can I find which stations in my area (just west of Charlotte, NC) have not been done?

REPLY: Just look at http://gallery.surfacestations.org/main.php and see if a station has been posted.

I have most of NC done but a one remains that you could get. Reidville, NC at the experiment farm there.

]]> By: Bob_L http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/19/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-62/#comment-15146 Bob_L Tue, 20 May 2008 13:21:51 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-15146 Jeff, Might be the difference between a fescue lawn and a bermuda lawn. The bermuda is just greening up now. North Carolina has had some drought problems and I would be surprised if the FD watered. Jeff,
Might be the difference between a fescue lawn and a bermuda lawn. The bermuda is just greening up now.

North Carolina has had some drought problems and I would be surprised if the FD watered.

]]> By: John Goetz http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/19/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-62/#comment-15144 John Goetz Tue, 20 May 2008 13:10:58 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-15144 Reminds me of the Lenoir, NC USHCN station. Just a few feet from the fire station and across the street from a shopping center. Reminds me of the Lenoir, NC USHCN station. Just a few feet from the fire station and across the street from a shopping center.

]]> By: Scott Finegan http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/19/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-62/#comment-15141 Scott Finegan Tue, 20 May 2008 12:52:16 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-15141 The annual mean temperature charts are from GISTEMP, can we trust the step about 1970 is not an across the board adjustment? That over 50 percent of the USHCN appears to have unknown accuracy problems, missing or poor quality documentation on station moves, and gaps in the temperature data. Some questions that need to be asked of the managing agency, and answered are: What triggers a need for a station move? Could the potential move be anticipated? (age and health of observer) How are the new station sites selected? Is there a process, designed to maintain quality (pre selection), or a mad rush to minimize gaps in the data, regardless of quality? The annual mean temperature charts are from GISTEMP, can we trust the step about 1970 is not an across the board adjustment?

That over 50 percent of the USHCN appears to have unknown accuracy problems, missing or poor quality documentation on station moves, and gaps in the temperature data.

Some questions that need to be asked of the managing agency, and answered are:

What triggers a need for a station move?
Could the potential move be anticipated? (age and health of observer)
How are the new station sites selected?
Is there a process, designed to maintain quality (pre selection), or a mad rush to minimize gaps in the data, regardless of quality?

]]> By: Bill in Vigo http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/19/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-62/#comment-15139 Bill in Vigo Tue, 20 May 2008 12:46:17 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-15139 And the saga continues. I would wonder if the regular application of RoundUp around the base of the sensor allowing the nice dry soil to show might also be a bias. I guess it is easier than the weed eater. The condition of the USHCN makes one wonder why not use sensors that report via satellite data link like the ocean sensors. Then the man made bias might be greatly eliminated. Just wondering Bill Derryberry And the saga continues. I would wonder if the regular application of RoundUp around the base of the sensor allowing the nice dry soil to show might also be a bias. I guess it is easier than the weed eater. The condition of the USHCN makes one wonder why not use sensors that report via satellite data link like the ocean sensors. Then the man made bias might be greatly eliminated.

Just wondering

Bill Derryberry

]]> By: David Smith http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/19/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-62/#comment-15138 David Smith Tue, 20 May 2008 12:27:36 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-15138 Anthony, what is the sensor's height above grade? Photo angles can be deceiving but they seem to indicate this sensor is 5 feet or less above the ground. That can make a difference, of course. <strong>REPLY: </strong>If you look at all the photos here http://gallery.surfacestations.org/main.php?g2_itemId=5175 You will see that it is actually in a depression, and that the main highway surface is about even with the MMTS head. Anthony, what is the sensor’s height above grade?

Photo angles can be deceiving but they seem to indicate this sensor is 5 feet or less above the ground. That can make a difference, of course.

REPLY: If you look at all the photos here http://gallery.surfacestations.org/main.php?g2_itemId=5175

You will see that it is actually in a depression, and that the main highway surface is about even with the MMTS head.

]]> By: Sean http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/19/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-62/#comment-15135 Sean Tue, 20 May 2008 12:04:52 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-15135 That's an interesting point about how good the fire department's lawn looks. Since North Carolina is in a drought similar to myself in Georgia, watering lawns is all but prohibited. They wouldn't be cheating would they? That’s an interesting point about how good the fire department’s lawn looks. Since North Carolina is in a drought similar to myself in Georgia, watering lawns is all but prohibited. They wouldn’t be cheating would they?

]]> By: MarkW http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/19/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-62/#comment-15133 MarkW Tue, 20 May 2008 11:45:32 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-15133 That berm between the road and the sensor is as tall as the sensor. That's going to affect both affect night time cooling and wind patterns all the time. That berm between the road and the sensor is as tall as the sensor. That’s going to affect both affect night time cooling and wind patterns all the time.

]]> By: Pierre Gosselin http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/19/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-62/#comment-15128 Pierre Gosselin Tue, 20 May 2008 09:55:51 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-15128 Sure is a lot of pavement and brick around it. What correction factor does this sensor get? <strong>REPLY:</strong> I don't know, there is not a table of correction factors on a station by station basis that I can refer to. Sure is a lot of pavement and brick around it. What correction factor does this sensor get?

REPLY: I don’t know, there is not a table of correction factors on a station by station basis that I can refer to.

]]> By: Jeff Alberts http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/05/19/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-62/#comment-15120 Jeff Alberts Tue, 20 May 2008 06:09:06 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1232#comment-15120 It also looks like the firestation lawn is well watered, very different from the other grassy areas in the aerial photo. More humidity for the sensor. It also looks like the firestation lawn is well watered, very different from the other grassy areas in the aerial photo. More humidity for the sensor.

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